Marketing and Finance - Live Episode 3

Marketing Study Lab - Actionable Marketing Knowledge

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Guest: James Perry (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesperryaccountingsuccesscoach/) Topic: Marketing and Finance

Discussion Points

• Guinness!!
• Irish history
• Personal branding
• Financial education
• Professional marketing qualifications
• Importance of practical experience

Link to the live video:https://www.linkedin.com/video/live/urn:li:ugcPost:6712752394180075520/

Enjoy the Episode - Happy Marketing!

Website Thingy: www.marketingstudylab.co.uk The Professional Bit: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petersumpton/ Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/marketingstudylab/ Tweet Tweet: https://twitter.com/cousinp81

Transcript (this transcript isn’t 100% accurate but provides a decent representation of the conversation – soz for any confusion)

Peter Sumpton

Hello and welcome. My name is Peter Sumpton, marketing consultant and Lego master of marketing and you're listening to the marketing study lab podcast live. Well, this bit isn't live, but the rest of it is. You'll hear a bit about that later. I mean, now, let's crack on. These episodes are taken from my live show marketing and where we look at the relationship between marketing and a specific topic. Subject or specialism, sometimes there'll be guests other times it'll just be me. So let's get cracking Okay, fantastic. Live live live love it. And I am so delighted to be joined today for this little chat with Mr. James Perry. James How are you doing?

James Perry

I'm good Peter. What about yourself? Thank you for having me.

Peter Sumpton

No problem. I'm doing pretty damn well to be fair. Yeah, all is good big workshop today. Hang on one second. Yeah, just a bit of technical difficulty there Yeah, I did a workshop today that had loads of people in it which is absolutely fantastic all engaged all interested in in marketing and the theory and about how you build a marketing plan and stuff like that so I can't complain sunshine and I think it's a bit cold outside but who cares? This isn't a weather forecast. So we don't really care Believe it or not, the weather is lovely here. It's not cooled

James Perry

and we're in the north of Ireland here which is all we get out.

Get out that's not Peter like I say to people the London for Ireland this Hibernia which meant which means the land of water so I

Peter Sumpton

see now you're gonna have to come back on because I don't know enough about islands and I don't know how I'm going to link it to marketing but there's bound to be some way and your knowledge of marketing and marketing your knowledge of Island and the history is on real so yeah, we're gonna have to link that in some way shape or form I'm not sure how but like well

James Perry

here we go. One of the biggest brands in the world is Irish.

Guinness

Peter Sumpton

well see that's why I invite you on you just keep me in check and make me look fun cuz I'm

James Perry

brought on brand Ireland and I brand Ireland. For a country is incredibly strong. hoka high kind of country an island of 6 million people get every person in the water to celebrate Irishness on one particular day. Or Patrick's Day.

Peter Sumpton

Thoughts marketing at its finest. That is that is brilliant. That isn't how I thought we'd start today. But yeah, let's let's carry on down that route. Yeah, absolutely. Bang, right. Like, like what what Guinness Do you know, they are the antithesis of a heritage historic brand, which keeps transforming what they do from a Marxian perspective yet keeping that history. And those those brand qualities of the the, the white top, the black Guinness, that the iconic glass, that the only company I know that can create an advert about water, and not even mention what they actually sell what they actually do and that you should drink something else other than Guinness and then publicise it, I mean, just amazing stuff.

James Perry

The way that the company was find it, so there's finally over 300 years ago by Arthur chemists who signed this is true, a 9999 year lease on some chambers get

free, because that's one of the sources of Dublin mountain water.

Peter Sumpton

But that's not

James Perry

how they get the symbology as well, Peter, which odd stir brown the heart, the heart is the Brian baru ARP, okay, Brian brew was was an ancient Thai king of Ireland. And even that is symbolic. So you know exactly

what they're doing in terms of their branding.

Peter Sumpton

Well, but that's again, Irish knowledge come into the front. They're not only Irish, but marketing knowledge. Marvellous. And that's what that's what we're all about. I absolutely love it. We'll probably come back to that if we get a little bit bored later on.

James Perry

But we never get bored by Fred. We never get bored.

Peter Sumpton

Well, that is that is very true. That is very, very true. But let's try and stick to half an hour slash four or five hours. I think the mcse live you can go is four hours or something I can't remember. Anyway. That's Mike's it. Right? Okay. Let's go on to a few more serious elements. And then we'll come back to the Guinness stuff and all that kind of stuff. So let's start with your background, a little bit of information about yourself what you do and what you're all about right now. So everybody knows that, what we're what we're going to chat about and how amazing you are.

James Perry

Well, I'm a chartered accountant by profession, accountancy has always been been in the blood Peter so degree in accounting master's degree in accounting and worked for a firm called Grant Thornton for 10 years sort of bigger global firms was an associate director with them, then I moved in tend to stray from not even quarter of wkd, another another alcoholic drink Kima Francia controller with them. Then I left and went to the government, I was the government for government rule for four years, again, as a financial controller on then things happen in life where I had to take a career break, which then pushed me and to starting a company or a business called the cutting success coach, which is my main thrust in terms of LinkedIn and in terms of my, my own business with without, which is to coach accounting students on their exams, and also up and coming accountants and seasoned finance professionals through career development. So that's the main business, I am also a part time teacher, a teaching fellow with the University of Ulster as well. And teaching accounting. So that's my background is all pure accounting.

Peter Sumpton

Cool, excellent. And in a bizarre way, that's kind of how we met with your pure accounting background, my pure marketing background, we're both in the educational field, we both teach marketing, and finance professionally. So it was just really good connections. And the more we spoke about both, the more we realised, from an educational point of view, and just purely departmental, that the links and the synergies between both of them were, were unreal. And then we got chatting about that, and a whole host of other things we've got in common, but let's not mention that Liverpool, the champions of the world, and pretty much champions of everything, shall we? We'll just stick to the marketing and finance on

James Perry

our head is the greatest company ever.

Peter Sumpton

forgot about that? Yeah. God. Yeah, absolutely. Fantastic.

James Perry

You're You're definitely like in the synergies in both marketing on the coating, stroke finance, especially when it comes to getting a professional qualification, look, and examine assignment as an examine assignment, albeit a different topic. And the approaches, in my opinion, are very, very similar. So opposite. That's where we had thought that definitely the professional thing in common as well. Yeah. And we've both been there and Donna disposers, which the thing?

Peter Sumpton

Yeah, that's very true. And I remember speaking to somebody it was on it was on a, another podcast. And they were saying that I can't remember what field they went into. But they went to a university, and sat down in a bid business lecture. And the professor started talking. And he said, Can you give us an example of this, like, that you've been part of? And the professor said that will No, I've never been in business. I only know it academically. And the guy actually walked out. Because he's like, Well, you can't, I want to be successful in business. And there's only so far that I can go with you teaching me from an academic standpoint, if you haven't got any historical, practical application that I can learn from them. This isn't for me. And same with yourself and me. We've we've lived it with breathed it. And I think a lot of people don't give enough credit for the fact that it's all about storytelling. Marketing is all about storytelling, and we gauge with stories and people don't give enough credit for. Okay, this is the theory. But this is what happened to me, or this is a prime example of where it went wrong, or this is what we shouldn't do. Because we've I don't think people give enough credit for that.

James Perry

Absolutely not. If you can live and breathe, what you're teaching someone or what you're coaching someone that really adds a lot to it. I don't think I would have as much gravitas or could help as much if I was a part qualified accountant. I couldn't do that. Because I have sort of I qualified first time with everything. backgrounds always been in the profession. In terms of career, I got to see it very piscean monitored quite early. On no coming the other way with yourself. You know, we're taking the entrepreneurial and started starting on business and doing everything that comes along with that. And I think we're both in the right areas to help others. And I think that's a mean thing to Peter. You know, my endgame is I'm not enough to create the next generation because I'm not. Okay. What I am about, though, is to help people live the life that they want, by getting a world class professional qualification. And by doing things that I learned to, to sort of prepare yourself career forward and live your life you want. That's what I'm all about. And I mean, I'm in this to have a lifestyle business. So that's why I want to teach people how to do that.

Peter Sumpton

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree from a slightly different standpoint, I think the thing that's missing academically, both marketing and on finance, from what I understand from what you've told me, is the fact that we see it as this, I get this qualification, then then I can do finance, I can do marketing, people will employ me I become employable. Yes, it helps, yes, you get a foot in the door. But what happens when things go wrong? You can't necessarily rely on what you've you've kind of learned, you need that practical experience. And what you said there was really interesting about end game, then why do you want this qualification and some people just want qualifications, because it shows them they can do what they can do, which is fantastic and great. not denying that at all. But others just want it for to progress in their career as well. And, yes, it might help to a certain level, but then I feel there's a lot missing that people don't talk about. For example, when I when I talk, there's the academic marketing, and then there's the real life marketing, the very, very similar, they both need to fit. But sometimes to get that qualification, you need to talk in a certain way. Whereas in real life, you would do things slightly different. It's not the same in in finance.

James Perry

In terms of theoretical versus practical, huh?

Yeah, yes.

Give me a quick example of that. One of the top one of the topics that people find very difficult than a coding is if you're doing an auditing exam, especially if you've never worked in auditing. So if you work and you're doing someone's a concert, if you're working in a tax department, you will find it incredibly hard to relate to auditing. But because I worked in auditing, I could relate to it. And that's something I can help people with a lot. Okay, but there's a massive difference between what it says in the books or what actually happens in real life. You know, what I mean? So there is a very, very different practical element to it. And I suppose, and my coaching, Peter, I very rarely talk accounting. What I what I do talk as though was with the practical applications of that accounting, because people can go and get all the material and learn from a learning provider, but I helped to apply that amount to different thing. Different things all together. And then especially with career development, you can read all the books in the world about career development, unless you unless you've done something, or you can talk to someone who's made all the mistakes like me, you know, shock when you learn about respect as well. So did a massive difference sometimes between theory and practice? Absolutely. But sometimes you have to know your theory before you do the practice.

Peter Sumpton

Yeah, yeah. And and, and that, that is the crux of the matter, there were the first live that I did with with Dr. I, we were talking about education and all that kind of stuff, and saying that it's hugely important to know that this theory, but theory alone, wouldn't necessarily get you through life, depending on what you wanted to do. And it is that that application, whereas if you flip it, and you've got no theory, then you're very, very fortunate if you can craft a career of any substance within a certain field, if you don't have that foundational level. And I'm presuming, like to my, my thoughts on on on finance, and that kind of area is that I wouldn't trust anyone that hadn't got a financial qualification to do my finances. I you know, just just wouldn't be in the same respect. If I went to a chartered accountant, then I probably want them to have X amount years of experience, rather than being that that fresh out is out of qualification. Do you think do you think once you've got a qualification, you are ready to take on the world? Or what? Let me rephrase that. What are the things that aren't taught? So you just pass the exam? What are the things that aren't taught that might hit you in the face when it comes to reality?

James Perry

One thing one point will make actually believe it or not, and it's it is a point for debate within the profession, is that you can call yourself an accountant or not be qualified. Okay. Right. You can actually believe it or not, and some of the best accountants that I know aren't qualified, and then not times that I tell them to get on the horse. get qualified is crazy, because it's adds so much credibility. credibility. So that's the first point in terms of the next bit. If someone has just qualified and they've got the accounting qualification, what I would tend to suggest is that they get that they stay with it where they are for perhaps a year or so or two. I don't know if it's the same in the marketing profession, but it's one or two years of what we call post qualification experience and accounting. And that normally is where you learn a lot of things. So there are a lot of people who perhaps qualify, say, in a coding practice, or within industry, perhaps, and I would say, stay where you are on and learn. Because that's, especially if you're going to go into senior management. And one thing that happened to me, Peter, was that I went that this was quite an extreme route. I went from being just newly qualified, straight into a senior management role. And I wasn't, I wasn't the manager, I wasn't manager, I was mid senior manager, I was promoted incredibly quick. Okay. And I was basically said, durscher portfolio of clients, go and figure it all out. Right. That's what I was taught. So I had to sink or swim. And I learned the hard way. No, that was when I was 10 or 12 years ago, and you'd like to think there's a bit more of a change, and I with proper coaching and things like that. So what I say to someone who is newly qualified, is this one to two years post qualification experience, and get a mentor or a coach. Absolutely, yeah. Because I've said, I've made all the mistakes. I was the one who didn't Dalit didn't know how to delegate. I was the only had this trinkets Knights. I was the one who was made stuff monitor at 20 it with all my mates, I was then their boss, I made every single mistake in the book. So get a mentor who's been there?

Because I tell you what not to do, you know?

Peter Sumpton

Yeah, that is very true. And although we learn from our mistakes, there's some mistakes you just don't want other people to make and others, you almost feel like they've they've got to learn from those mistakes. And that's not to say that, okay, well, well, you can come in work for me or I can be your mentor. But I'm going to let you screw up. It's not that at all most will. This is my experience, but you probably better experience in it for yourself.

James Perry

Absolutely. You have to you have to walk work and run.

Peter Sumpton

Yeah, yeah. So just to go back to the question, is it the same in in marketing, so what I would say, for anybody that's looking for a career in marketing, slightly different, the approach that I would take is that I would say, Don't jump to any particular position. Don't go for any particular job, look at look at the company, look at how they operate, look to see if they're marketing orientated, or whether they're sales focused, or production focused, because you will have a very, very different working life. If you work for a company that's marketing orientated, you will learn a shedload more than you will if they are sales focused, because what will probably happen is that you will be more comms based, and you will be more admin based at the very start. Whereas if it's marketing focus, yes, you'll have the admin functionality, because you're at the bottom of the ladder, but it will be marketing, it will be focused. So you'll get involved in product, you'll get involved in price place, you're getting definitely involved in the communications, because that's kind of what anyone sees nowadays is just the comms in marketing. And I think that's an issue we've got to face. But yes, slightly different to what you would say in finance. My advice would be more about think about the company, and what they can offer in terms of your education in marketing.

James Perry

It's funny, even as you say that,

whenever I was in the industry, and then in the business, once I left the ground floor, marketing was always seen as the sexy thing. Whereas finances, that's the boring thing, okay. But one thing I would say about accounting, if you are an accountant, is to go and talk to everyone else. Go on talk to the marketing department and sales department because what tends to happen or something that people have to realise is that accounting or the finance department is the eyes and ears of the entire business. Therefore, you have to pop relationships with marketing, CS, operations, Treasury, whatever that means. Be. So that's one thing that any marketing students are out there and you're with an industry, go and talk to your accountant Scott, talk to finance. Go and because remember, you're one organisation, it's not, am I that sometimes happens, where departments in a certain in one business think that they're competing they're competing or not? Yeah, that's one thing I learned massively. And accounting, I believe the term of content will be no longer and five years, we will be called business partners. That's what I believe will be called. Okay. That's because the numbers will take care of themselves through AI and blockchain. So we have to actually get off our seats and go talk to people. That's, that's what's happening. So that's where marketing and finance will really coexist.

Peter Sumpton

Yeah, it was a topic that I wanted to raise with you Really? What What can what can marketing ask finance and what can finance learn or understand how that relationship with marketing but completely agree like, across their whole business, similarly, within marketing, that the fact that you need to be involved in pricing, so you kind of want to talk to the finance department to see if you're profitable or not, you need to be involved in in the product. So technical, technical, and r&d and stuff like that. And the same for finance, you know, r&d, you could spend an absolute fortune on r&d and not get anywhere. But if you've got that financial backing to say, well, these are our pinch points, you can take it that far before we need to do this, we can rely on this product for that income, then, you know, the world is a better place. And I love the fact that you just said we're one company and we work in silos some some times and that is a really, really sad thing. Just Quick, quick comment. Will to actually from from Connor, he says, Yeah, the company can teach you so much. But love this one. loving this first time are tuned in. So I'm guessing that's because it's the first time you've tuned in and you just looked out with James Perry being my guest. So

James Perry

I would have a guest Connor. Okay, if you hop off the hop and Irish connection, there

Peter Sumpton

is balance. We can't connect, let us know. Yeah, absolutely. And if you if you've got any Irish history related questions, now's the time. Now's the time to ask them. Just Just on that, just to say, if anyone has got any questions about marketing, and finance, marketing, or finance and how they coexist, or how they work together, you know, please, please do speak up happy to take them on board. So just going back to that question, from your point of view, from a finance perspective, what would you want to know from from marketing to so we can coexist?

James Perry

The first point, if anything, with marketing or than any other department, the first, the first thing that always happens at the start of the year budgeting? Yeah, okay. This is with a bottle of normally. But again, it's having conversation. So if you are a head of marketing, if you're a head of thought sort of department, again, is not to try not to sit on your laurels and going, oh, we're going to get 5% on top of last year's budget, that does not work anymore. First thing is you need to go and talk to each other. And on the terms of finance, Peter, our terms of marketing, especially, it's gonna be very topical night because my farts bring in business with with the the recession and the depression living. What's the first thing to go? marketing budget is cost. Yep. Okay, so that's all the conversations that may need to be hard. Because the other school of thought is that whenever markets are low, or whenever the economy is low, that's the time you need to promote. That is the time you need to invest. So there's so it's actually really topical the conversations that should be compared to marketing finance right now. Hmm.

Peter Sumpton

Yeah, I agree. So if if anybody and I'll put a link in the comments after this because after find out my phone, but Mark Ritson at marketing professor, and consultant, he wrote an article that was published today, and it was talking about sales funnels and stuff like that. But one of the examples he gave was, and I can't remember the company, but an insurance company in Australia, and basically, the final, not the financial officer, sorry, the marketing officer. He doubled down on his advertising within this period, but he did it from from a branding perspective, as well as a sales perspective. So what he did, he went to finance and said, Look, I need more money because of this. And he explained it and what they did was they had this this when no one was advertising. They put all their money into advertising. So they got huge search. Advice. And then what they did, they had these small mini campaigns, where it was a case of we know times are tough. So here's 10 Australian dollars a month to insure you for fire, theft and damage. And that was the short term tactic. And it just worked on believably well, and he gives some stats in that article. And it was just a perfect example of knowing the marketing, but also knowing to talk to finance and saying, look, this is the state that we're in. But through what I know and what I understand we need to invest in you can't really do that without your finance department being on board.

James Perry

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. It's really interesting you say out too, because even from a personal marketing standpoint, bronze, Peter Brown, James. And I was actually on a course today and the question that I put out there was in the world of all this personal branding and personal marketing, I dare How can you make yourself stand out? And it's similar business and similar, similar personal, the same personal was your grant because of your Lego? Right? That makes you stand out? I probably stopped it because I'm the most on stereotypical thing. Right? I am. I like to think I'm not boring at all. I've got a personality. But I thought that was a really great question that was posed today. So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna be somebody who fires a question back to the host. What can people do? Or what can businesses do to make themselves stand out from the crowd in today's climate?

Peter Sumpton

I mean, I think you've hit the nail on the head with with Lego. Here I am, just for anybody that hasn't seen rowing. There we go. That was the fella. So yeah, I think it's being being memorable or being known for one thing, who you are, and being true to that over a consistent period of time. So unfortunately, nowadays, we live in an economy and that now economy, like I ordered something from Amazon ATM yesterday morning, and it was supposed to arrive before 10pm, the same day it didn't. But I've done that previously. And it has it's arrived the same day. And that is just not it was an extension lead. And it's like, how are you making money off that? So anyway, so be known for one thing, if you want a really good book to read, and a big shout out to john esperion. It's called content DNA. And what he says in that, he says that, you should have kind of three things that everything you do gears around. So that could be and I haven't nailed mine down. So I'm giving advice, and I'm trying to follow it. But I'm not 100% there yet. I'm still playing around with a few things. So so mine, my non negotiables are Lego, helpful, and witty. So everything you see from me should be either all those three things, or one of those things. If it's not, it's not me. And so to build a personal brand, it needs to be individually, you and there's only one of you. Now, the problem you've got James, you're in a great position, because like you say, if if you said, Peter, what do I do? And I hadn't met you. There's no way I would guess what you do. So you being you stands out in your marketplace. Now, if you didn't, I would say become known for a particular thing. So whether that's you wear a bow tie, whether you are a flat cup, whether you have a catchy strapline, whether you do all those things, it's about being consistent. And I don't care how dry or boring or on entertaining somebody thinks they are. They will appeal to a certain demographic, and don't focus on everyone. Even Harry Potter doesn't appeal to everybody. So if you if you're looking for 1000 likes and to please 1000 people forget it. If you're looking to please 1015 people out of the thousands, you're on the right lines. So that's what I would say be known for the right things but make it you because the one thing you don't want is to build up this personal brand of I'm James I'm always I'm always funny, always witty, I know loads of Irish history, and then I meet you, and you know nothing about Ireland, and you're just dull and boring. And I'm like, well, you're not the person I thought you were and and the one thing I would say it's actually in this book, a quote from me, although I didn't originate the quote, but a brand is a promise. And that's the same For individuals, so when I'm talking to you, James, you've promised me that you will be engaging, you will bring your your financial knowledge, you will bring your Irish knowledge, you will be true and honest and open. And if you weren't that, I just be like, well, something's wrong here. And that's who you are. So stay true to your brand and be known. Yeah, so don't break that promise, either. And if you've been false, you'll end up breaking that promise.

James Perry

The there are two things, and one I have actively worked on. On the two things that are your superpowers. One is sleep, right? Sleeping that the part I tell my students that I'm not joking that folks, if you don't have your sleep sorted, get it sorted. Hmm. Second one is consistency. And that is the super part that I neglected for a lot for a long time. So why would have been especially on LinkedIn for my own business, I would have been up here, massive peak post and stuff stopped doing well. And then you go into that truck, and you go into that trough of God, I'm not getting too many likes or follows around. But that's a self fulfilling prophecy, because he don't post you're not going to get them anyway. To be perfectly honest, Peter likes and all that sort of stuff of comments isn't necessarily my metric anymore. Because of to try and get clients and to get eyeballs on my posts. So few use engagement, DNS in the background, having really good conversations with people. What I want to get from this, but I have solved the problem. Now I've got a VA. So I have got over the last couple of years, and the intermittent posting, I'm creating content, I maybe have two or three years with content on my laptop, and I went to my VA and I went just you go nuts. which gives me that platform of consistency. Mm hmm. It's an education piece swept to educate her, where I want her to go with it. Now she's, I could say, just slightly more creative than me, in some ways, now quite creative in other ways. But it also gives me the scope to engage, it gives me the scope to have those conversations with people in the background. And that's something so another tip I would give anybody out there is that given consistency is your shipper part of whichever discipline, if you're not going to be so good at a time source that because it's really, really important. And that's something I've learned massively, you know, I have probably over the last six months been more successful than I have last financial year on it probably factors are probably about it. It is because I've been much, much more consistent over the last six months.

Peter Sumpton

So and I suppose that that's one thing that a lot of people take for granted. So a lot of people that class themselves have influences or whatever you want to call them. You see them a lot, you see them over a consistent period of time. And that is because they're consistently posting, they're consistently on a particular platform, and you get to know them. And that's exactly what you were just saying there. It's it's all about the consistency and using a VA i think is a great idea. And I'm toying with the idea right now. And I just think that I'm so glad you went to say that, you know, it's a bit of a learning curve, because the one thing you don't want to do is outsource and then you lose you. So I'm guessing in terms of the engagement and the conversations you have that is still you it's just the consistency is being helped with having this other person do the ad mini side of being consistent. And I was very lucky who I got from my VA so I have tried and busted

James Perry

our trading task division say a number. But what I do personally is nothing business related as myself on a friend on another young lady. I've got a podcast on we have just we thought we talk rubbish

Peter Sumpton

grin and bear it

James Perry

up grunenberg with Rebecca right so Rebecca is nine my VA on that's where I've been quite lucky. Okay, so Rebecca knows me personally, she knows that I'm like she is she creates movies. She has written a novel. She's not even 25 yet. She adds fantastic in the way she thinks she's very creative. And I went okay, Rebecca, you can kill two birds with one stone here. I am creative. But I'm quite logical in the way that I think. Can you help me paint more of a story about me, but also takes the burden off me to actually have it done on my business at the same time? And I said, Look, I'll pay X amount a month. Yeah, no problem. And that has been one of the best moves either For me, I have I have paid people who don't know me, I have paid. And I just been quite lucky that that has happened for me. But it still is an education process and I will be a continual process. You know, I've noticed that the quality, my deliverable to my posts and my graphics, on even the blurb and the wording of stuff in LinkedIn is infinitely better than what it was a year ago. So again, it has evolved through maybe as help as well. So definitely get people on site that will help you because we're not going to be great at everything we can't be.

Peter Sumpton

Yeah, that that is one fable, if that's the right word it within marketing, it's that. And I'm pretty sure anyone in lighting will will agree that that you have to be excellent at everything. And people expect you to be excellent at everything. So not only do you have to know the ins and outs of LinkedIn, but then you also have to know how to set up and design a brochure or a trade publication. And then you know, you need to know the printing process and the difference between CNY K and RGB and the different types of paper and because you're in marketing, and it's just, it's not true, because you cannot you cannot understand everything. It's It's nuts. Is that kind of similar in a way to to finance or it.

James Perry

Yeah, okay. Peter, people come to me and ask about tax all the time I have in my life, not a tax return.

Peter Sumpton

I asked you as well, like,

James Perry

I don't know, I don't even do my own. MIT does it for me. The reason why that was is because I can draw up my own company kind of not a problem. But my specialism in a bright trend was audit. So I used to go into other companies and audit their books to verify that were recalled true and fair. And basically reasonable. And I was I was a damn good auditor. And then whenever I went into industry, I drew up the books off Wk to either drink or I stabilised the finance team. And then I write and talk to the rest of the business. So I, for example, will not look at pensions or tax or anything like that. People come to me because I'm an accountant, automatically thinking that I know but that might though.

Peter Sumpton

Right? So many synergies there.

James Perry

Absolutely. Is the probably the same in marketing. There's so many but you're specialised that. And there's some areas that are not. And that's the reason why in some of these big organisations, like it's so many different departments. So for example, Grant Thornton are known as chartered accountants, but you've got departments for everything. You know, so I'm not the reason why, you know, you can be, you can be what jack of all trades and Master of None. Yeah.

Peter Sumpton

And there's loads of things to pull from that and discuss really, and I'm just conscious of time, but that's all. But there's no way we could we could break the timer. But they talk about that the T shaped marketer, so you've got a good grounding in all disciplines. And then you focus a speciality on one or maybe two. And that's fine. But the one thing I would say to that is that everyone's different, and everyone's unique. And don't be pigeonholed into one thing or another, unless you want to be a specialist in that area. If you want to be a specialist on PPC, on SEO, fantastic, brilliant, and then maybe branch out into other areas on no other areas of marketing. But if you want to be an all round marketer, I think you need to know and understand a lot. But think more strategically, because that's the bit that's missing the strategy element within marketing we all go for the tactic, we all go for the cons, we all go for the video, and the editing behind that and content creation and stuff like that. But it's the strategic element because all that content creation is great. But like you said with consistency, not only do you have to show up consistently, but you have to have a consistent message which again goes back to your personal brand and be known for particular things. So for example for you James, I know that if I see a post that is that is black, and I don't know what political it at turquoisey blue, it's

James Perry

it's the colour of the colour and the ripples on the shirt.

Peter Sumpton

That's where they got the colour from. I wondered that brilliant, I love it. But yeah, it's those two colours, then I know it's going to be James Perry, and it's going to be talking about accountancy. And because that is you've been consistent over a period of time with those colours. One if you want to check out anybody that does that unbelievably well. There's a lady on LinkedIn. She's very prominent LinkedIn called Mary Henderson. Her colours are pink, black and grey on real Everything you see is pink, black and grey every time I see something that's pink, I just think Mary Henderson's post.

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