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New Thinking is a podcast about justice—and injustice—in America. It’s about the people working to fix a justice system that falls so short of our ideals, and the people organizing to build something new in its place. It’s hosted by Matt Watkins and produced by the Center for Court Innovation.
 
It’s no secret the legal industry is changing. At the American Bar Association Center for Innovation, we regularly hear about new service delivery models, court-based innovations, and other developments that positively impact how the public accesses legal services and information.But who is driving this change? What is inspiring these legal innovators? And perhaps, more importantly, what are the results of their efforts?The ABA Center for Innovation wants you to know the answers. Every other ...
 
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show series
 
An audio snapshot from an emergency rally demanding immediate measures to release people from New York City’s Rikers Island jail. Eleven people have died in the custody of the city’s jail system this year as Rikers’ chief medical officer warns of “a collapse in basic jail operations.”By Center for Court Innovation
 
Gunderson Dettmer partner and chair of the firm's labor & employment practice, Natalie Pierce believes that life is a working towards a constant state of improvement. Stephanie Goutos, Gunderson Dettmer's practice innovation attorney, agrees and shares her expertise on how automated processes can foster those improvements. After a year the results …
 
As Hurricane Ida devastated Louisiana, Amanda Brown, the executive director at Lagniappe Law Lab, helped create a tool designed to assure that people could get information in the days and weeks following the storm. Amanda tells us how a simple solution designed around SMS capabilities is able to provide information to the public at time they need i…
 
Today we take another dive into attorney workflows and talk with Mark Van Eman and Haydn Jones of EZBriefs. Mark and Haydn discuss the challenges of briefs and why solos and small firms don't have a level playing field when it comes to legal technolgy. Follow us on Twitter @ABAInnovation Follow us on Linkedin…
 
Hurt people hurt people. That’s not an excuse for harm, but it fuels much of the criminal legal system. At 19, Marlon Peterson was the unarmed lookout on a robbery where two people were killed. Peterson spent a decade behind bars. He writes about those years, and the childhood in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, that preceded them, in his new memoir, Bird …
 
In 1996, 16-year-old Reginald Dwayne Betts was sentenced to nine years in prison for a carjacking. He spent much of that time reading, and eventually writing. After prison, he went to Yale Law School and published a memoir and three books of poems. But he’s still wrestling with what “after prison” means. This is a conversation about incarceration, …
 
Today we sit down with Mat Rotenberg to talk about the productivity challenges lawyers face. Mat founded dashboard legal with the goal of helping lawyers focus their time on the things they were trained to do and to create a more sustainable and inclusive legal profession. He believes that the incremental change that productivity solutions offer la…
 
In her new book, historian Elizabeth Hinton highlights a “crucible period” of often violent rebellions in the name of the Black freedom struggle beginning in 1968. Initiated in almost every instance by police violence, the rebellions—dismissed as “riots”—have been largely written out of the history of the civil rights era. Hinton contends the perio…
 
Today we will discuss blockchain, cryptocurrencies, and NFTs and their impact on the legal industry. Joining us is an expert in all things blockchain and crypto, Joseph Raczynski. Joseph Raczynski is a Technologist & Futurist with Thomson Reuters. If you are interested in more from Joe you can find it here: Joe Technologist https://joetechnologist.…
 
One of every four people killed by police is experiencing a mental health emergency. Changing how we respond to crisis in the moment, and to widespread, ongoing mental health needs, means deferring to the leadership of people with lived experience and putting racial equity at the center of every reform. On today’s episode, listening to the people w…
 
This week on the #ABACIN: E-Discovery and Compliance powerhouse Relativity launched a program last year that aimed to join technology and social justice called "Justice for Change" We talked with three "Relativians" Colleen Costello, (Head of Social Impact), Jaclyn Sattler, (Chief of Staff), Johnathan Hill, (Community Engagement Lead) about how thi…
 
We talk to Colin Williams, chairman and Founder of New Era ADR. New Era ADR recently launched and is trying to tackle how the legal system can adapt dispute resolution to the 21st century. The platform offers Virtual Mediation, digital arbitration and even resolution planning to help mitigate future disputes. Show Notes: Website: https://www.newera…
 
What’s the most effective way to reduce the chance of an arrest in the future? A new study suggests it’s shrinking the size of the justice system in the here and now. Boston D.A. Rachael Rollins and the director of NYU’s Public Safety Lab, Anna Harvey, talk about the benefits of not prosecuting low-level charges—an almost 60 percent reduction in re…
 
Journalist Maurice Chammah says the federal execution spree during the final weeks of the Trump presidency is evidence of the death penalty’s continued decline, not its resurgence. Chammah is the author of the new book, Let the Lord Sort Them: The Rise and Fall of the Death Penalty. Chammah tracks the long arc of the death penalty—its use and its s…
 
Homer Venters has been inspecting prisons, jails, and ICE detention centers for COVID-compliance almost since the start of the pandemic. The former chief medical officer for New York City jails says what were already substandard health systems and abusive environments have deteriorated sharply, where even people positive for the virus can languish …
 
How effective is therapy or treatment when it’s used instead of incarceration, and what are the challenges to conducting it inside the coercive context of the criminal justice system? New Thinking host Matt Watkins is joined by clinical psychologist Jacob Ham who works with justice-involved young people affected by trauma, and John Jay College’s De…
 
Josie Duffy Rice says remaking the justice system is a generational struggle, but it’s one progressives are winning. The well-known criminal justice commentator and activist, president of the news site The Appeal and host of its podcast, Justice in America, explains why she believes in the power of big ideas and offers her take on the federal elect…
 
Why do some young people carry guns? It’s a difficult question to answer. People in heavily-policed neighborhoods with high rates of violence aren’t generally enthusiastic about answering questions about gun use. In this special episode, hear from three of the authors of a groundbreaking year-long study into young people and guns. The findings are …
 
The movement to reform prisons is about as old as prisons themselves. But what is the ultimate goal of reform of a system like the criminal justice system? Victoria Law and Maya Schenwar contend that many of today’s most popular reforms—such as electronic monitoring and locked-down treatment centers—are extending, rather than countering, the justic…
 
While crime of nearly every kind has been declining amid COVID-19, in cities across the country, gun violence and homicides have been the exceptions. Long-time researcher and former Obama DOJ official, Thomas Abt, says there are proven solutions to reduce the violence. But he says both the right and the left fail to grasp the essence of any solutio…
 
The alleged use of a $20 counterfeit bill, selling loose cigarettes on a street corner, a broken brake light—think how many police encounters that ended with the killing of a Black person began with misdemeanor enforcement. If you want to shrink the role of police and the justice system, misdemeanors are the best place to start. Low-level, often “o…
 
Restorative justice is about repairing harm. But for Black Americans, what is there to be restored to? This episode features a roundtable with eight members of the Center for Court Innovation’s Restorative Justice in Schools team. They spent three years embedded in five Brooklyn high schools—all five schools are overwhelmingly Black, and all five h…
 
The death of George Floyd after a white Minneapolis police officer pressed his knee to Floyd’s neck for close to nine minutes has triggered a wave of long-held anger and revulsion across the country. Vincent Southerland, the executive director of the Center on Race, Inequality, and the Law at NYU, compares Floyd’s death—in public, in broad daylight…
 
With justice systems across the country scrambling to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic, there is a lot of talk about what justice is going to look like when the virus ends. But what has the response actually consisted of—especially from prisons and jails, which have emerged as epicenters of the virus—and is there any reason to anticipate a “new nor…
 
The infection rate from COVID-19 in New York City’s Rikers Island jails is currently almost 30 times the rate for the U.S. as a whole. As the city struggled to get people out from behind bars—criticized both for moving too slowly, and for even contemplating releasing anyone early from a jail sentence—it turned to a trio of nonprofits to repurpose a…
 
In cities across the United States, the effects of the coronavirus are not being experienced equally. Whether it’s infection rates, deaths, or job losses, people of low income and people of color are being hit hardest. In New York City, many of those effects are concentrated in communities where public housing is located. The Center for Court Innov…
 
Bruce Western’s book, Homeward: Life in the Year After Prison, is, as its title suggests, about the challenges confronting people re-entering society after a period behind bars. But it’s also inevitably about the deep harms of incarceration itself. And moving further backward still, it’s about the problems and life-histories that leave people vulne…
 
In 1996, 16-year-old Reginald Dwayne Betts was sentenced to nine years in prison for a carjacking. He spent much of that time reading, and eventually writing. After prison, he went to Yale Law School and published a memoir and three books of poems. But he’s still wrestling with what “after prison” means. This is a conversation about incarceration, …
 
In Practice is a new podcast from the Center for Court Innovation focusing on practitioners—people working on the ground to make things better for those touched by the justice system. On the first episode, host Rob Wolf looks at the challenge domestic violence cases pose to probation departments. Subscribe today (Apple podcasts)!…
 
At 24, Jarrell Daniels was released from prison after six years behind bars. It was a Thursday. The following Tuesday, he came back to the same facility in street clothes to attend the college class he’d started on the inside. He’s now a sophomore at Columbia University. The class that so inspired him was a novel experiment in an already unconventi…
 
With Kim Foxx running for re-election as State’s Attorney in Cook County (Chicago), it’s an excellent moment to revisit one of the best conversations we’ve had on the podcast. Foxx, the first African-American woman to lead the office, has faced a campaign of sustained, often vicious, opposition from the moment she took the job and every indication …
 
Community service has long been a staple of sentencing in the U.S., and has long enjoyed a sunny, mostly uninterrogated, reputation as a more restorative and humane alternative to fines and fees or short-term jail. But two new reports—one from the Center for Court Innovation and one from the UCLA Labor Center—suggest many of the ways courts are act…
 
The movements to end cash bail and close jails are connected, and gabriel sayegh has been in the thick of organizing both fights. The co-executive director of the Katal Center for Health, Equity, and Justice explains why he thinks New York’s impending reforms to bail are potentially the most sweeping in the country. And in a critical week for the c…
 
As chief medical officer for New York City jails, Homer Venters realized early in his tenure that for many people dying in jail, the primary cause of death was jail itself. To document these deaths, Venters and his team created a statistical category no one had dared to track before: “jail-attributable deaths.” His work led him into frequent opposi…
 
Can art transform the criminal justice system? On this special edition of New Thinking, host Matt Watkins sits down with two New York City artists on the rise—Derek Fordjour and Shaun Leonardo—who both work with our Project Reset to provide an arts-based alternative to court and a criminal record for people arrested on a low-level charge. With the …
 
**episode originally aired in October 2018** About two out of three people in local jails are being held awaiting trial, often because they can’t afford bail. What if a mathematical formula could do a more objective job of identifying who could be safely released? That’s the promise of risk assessments. But critics call them “justice by algorithm,”…
 
In 2017, more than 17,000 people were murdered in the United States, most of them in cities. Thomas Abt, a long-time policy-maker and researcher, says that far from intractable, there are proven ways to reduce the violence, but he worries the urgency of acting now is being ignored. And when it comes to how we think about violence, he has a bone to …
 
With so much of the focus now on keeping people out of jail and prison, it can feel like there is a reluctance among criminal justice reformers to work on improving life for the more than two million people already there. But one group beginning to mobilize on the issue is prosecutors—or at least “progressive” prosecutors. Baltimore State’s Attorne…
 
If you’re not following Scott Hechinger on Twitter, you’re missing something important. A public defender and the director of policy at Brooklyn Defender Services, Hechinger is a fantastic explainer and participant-witness at the frontlines of the justice system. In May 2018, he joined our series on prosecutors, outlining how prosecutor power is ex…
 
Rachel Barkow contends criminal justice policy is a “prisoner of politics,” driven by appeals to voters’ worst instincts and an aversion to evidence of what actually works. Defined by its severity and unfairness, the criminal justice system, she says, is counterproductive to the goal of public safety it claims as its justification. In her new book,…
 
The well-known journalist and commentator Emily Bazelon talks about her new book, Charged, on the “movement to transform American prosecution,” and where she thinks power might be shifting in the criminal justice system. So-called progressive prosecutors are very much a minority among elected D.A.s, but what if they could be the model for dismantli…
 
Rachael Rollins says she has seen the criminal justice system from “almost every angle.” Now, as Boston’s first female African-American district attorney, she’s setting the agenda. She explains her new approach of “services not sentences” as a response to low-level “crimes of poverty” and the urgency of changing the traditional role of the prosecut…
 
Rikers Island was once the dream of progressive reformers for a more rehabilitative corrections system. Now New York City, taking advantage of its plunging jail population, has pledged to replace the scandal-plagued complex with four smaller redesigned facilities—located near courthouses, not on an isolated island. It’s a shift the mayor says will …
 
Almost any encounter with the criminal justice system comes with a price tag, and fines and fees are capturing millions of Americans in a cycle of poverty and justice-involvement. Various states across the country charge you for using a public defender, a DNA sample, your monthly parole meetings, even a jury trial. And that’s in addition to the fin…
 
How can the recent victories of the campaign to elect reform-minded district attorneys be wedded to larger systemic change to ensure the movement’s gains outlast the next election? On the final episode of our Prosecutor Power series, the ACLU’s Somil Trivedi says progressive D.A.s have to take the next step of campaigning to reduce their own power.…
 
Alexandra Natapoff calls the misdemeanor justice system a “quiet behemoth”: making up four of every five criminal cases in the U.S., neglected by scholars and reformers, and potentially harming those caught up in it for life. In Punishment Without Crime: How Our Massive Misdemeanor System Traps the Innocent and Makes America More Unequal, she descr…
 
The movement to elect reform-minded prosecutors has been around long enough and scored enough victories that progressive D.A.s now have their own support network: Fair and Just Prosecution. Miriam Krinsky, its executive director, explains why she thinks “starry-eyed idealists” who want to transform the justice system need to get the message that “t…
 
How effective is therapy or treatment when it’s used instead of incarceration, and what are the challenges to conducting it inside the coercive context of the criminal justice system? New Thinking host Matt Watkins is joined by clinical psychologist Jacob Ham who works with justice-involved young people affected by trauma, and John Jay College’s De…
 
Highlights from a public screening and panel discussion of Bill Moyers’s ‘Rikers: An American Jail,’ moderated by New Thinking host, Matt Watkins. Commenting on the film and the future of criminal justice reform are Tina Luongo of the Legal Aid Society, Jill Harris of the Brooklyn District Attorney’s Office, and two of the people formerly held on R…
 
As a defense attorney, Larry Krasner sued the Philadelphia police upwards of 75 times. In late 2017, he was elected D.A. in a landslide. As part of our series on the power of prosecutors, Krasner explains why he has little patience for compromise in a city whose justice system is “an outlier in a country that is an outlier.” Full show notes…
 
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