The Trial Lawyers College Podcast talks to leading attorneys, TLC board members, and faculty about the ideas and the issues that are affecting trial lawyers today. The TLC podcast covers courtroom strategy, communicating with jurors, connecting with clients, methods that drive success, balancing healthy relationships with a busy practice and more.
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This podcast is an examination of the American Criminal Justice System and Prison Industrial Complex. Join Billy and Jodie as they tackle difficult topics and come to grips with injustice, corruption, and human rights violations resulting from Retributive Justice and guide us towards a vision of Restorative Justice.
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Eric Davis (Houston criminal lawyer, TLC Board member) joins Rafe to tackle a brutal—but common—trial problem: what to do when your case includes facts that will make jurors shut down. Drawing on years of bad-case experience and Trial Lawyers College methods, Eric walks through practical strategies for voir dire and trial planning when you must con…
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Rafe Foreman sits down with faculty member Mike Smith to unpack why Trial Lawyers College programs — from the three-week flagship to weekend workshops — are game changers for trial lawyers. They talk psychodrama's power to unlock the emotional core of a case, the collaborative moment that produced the "above/below the line" framework for med-mal tr…
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Medical School 101 for Lawyers with Francisco "Paco" Duarte
33:26
33:26
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33:26Francisco "Paco" Duarte joins Rafe to unpack the practical side of medical-misdiagnosis in cases — including why stroke tops the list and running through the ten most commonly incorrect diagnoses. They explain how emergency departments are organized (and why that structure — plus billing and workflow practices — often shows up as distortion in liti…
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F-Warrior Retreat, Psychodrama, and Real-World Wins with Robert Klingler
29:11
29:11
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29:11TLC grad Robert Klingler (Class of 2015) joins Rafe Foreman to explain how psychodrama and TLC methods — role reversal, doubling, listening and courtroom reenactments — have reshaped his practice from federal employment work to public-defense and civil trials. Hear how a respectful, strategic approach unraveled a suppression hearing, how a roller-r…
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Courtroom to Classroom with Stanley Schneider
26:02
26:02
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26:02Rafe Foreman sits down with TLC graduate Stanley Schneider to unpack a career spent fighting for justice — from recent jury battles and wins at the Court of Criminal Appeals to life-changing Innocence Project work. Stanley explains how psychodrama and TLC methods sharpen storytelling, jury engagement, and appellate strategy, and he reflects on coer…
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Trial Success with Tim Garvey and Greg Bentley
33:51
33:51
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33:51Rafe Foreman hosts trial lawyers Tim Garvey and Greg Bentley for a practical, inside look at a recent hard-fought case victory and the Trial Lawyers College methods that made the difference. They break down how TLC techniques — from voir dire and story-building to witness prep and courtroom presence — moved a jury and protected their client's digni…
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Rafe Foreman interviews Darryl Exum about a brutal, nine-month criminal trial in Riverside—a four-defendant gang double-murder case involving identical twins—that tested every trial skill in the book. Darryl recounts two trials (after a mistrial tied to a covert informant dispute), how TLC methods—rigorous voir dire, careful cross-examination, stor…
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Former TLC student Kahlie Hoffman returns to share how she secured a $2.35 million verdict for an uninsured immigrant client in a three-car collision. Learn how she used TLC-inspired methods—humanizing her Spanish-speaking client, tackling attorney-referred care head-on, and even exercising peremptory strikes by gut instinct—to overcome low-damage …
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Seattle lawyer, Evan Oshan, joins Rafe Foreman to explore his groundbreaking negligence suit against the City of Seattle over the CHOP Zone—where two Black youths were shot, one fatally, amid an "off-limits" protest precinct. Learn how municipal leaders' decision to abandon public safety unleashed chaos, spoliated evidence, and left victims without…
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What if an outside perspective could help unlock the story of your case? In this episode, trial consultant Elizabeth Larrick joins Rafe Foreman to explore how targeted focus groups, smart vocabulary lists, and role-reversal exercises help you fine-tune your themes, spot blind spots, and connect with jurors. Whether you're prepping for depositions, …
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Join Rafe Foreman as he welcomes life care planning specialist Lindsey Ford to explore how physician-authored life care plans forecast and quantify the future medical and support needs of injured individuals. Lindsey explains the methodology behind assessing long-term care—from rehabilitative therapies and mental health support to household service…
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Storytelling and Service with John Charles Hardin
37:15
37:15
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37:15Rafe Foreman sits down with master storyteller, John Charles Hardin, to reflect on decades of trial work, the enduring bond forged through shared experiences, and the transformative impact of Trial Lawyers College. They discuss how genuine storytelling—grounded in truth and empathy—shapes every aspect of jury work, from voir dire to closing argumen…
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Brecken Wagner—TLC '16 and new faculty member—joins Ray Foreman to announce the extended June 23 deadline for the flagship three-week college and discuss Oklahoma's surprising shift back toward felony DUI statutes. As a criminal defense attorney, Brecken shares how he's navigating legislative changes, preparing for upcoming trials, and harnessing T…
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From Psychodrama to Verdict with Amy Rogers, Sean Dormer, and Tim Garvey
39:31
39:31
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39:31Sean Dormer, Tim Garvey, and Amy Rogers discuss how Trial Lawyers College techniques helped them secure a $4 million verdict in a wrongful-death case where a young man died by suicide in jail after his pleas for help were ignored. They explain how psychodrama and empathy exercises guided their opening statements, jury selection, and scene-setting t…
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Scene-Setting & Self-Defense: Translating Psychodrama into Trial Tactics with Adam Oakey
30:59
30:59
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30:59Adam Oakey, owner of the Law Office of Adam Oakey in Albuquerque, NM, discusses his TLC journey—from Trial Skills Foundation to "Courage to Ask"—and why he's applied for the flagship three-week college. He explains how psychodrama transformed his approach to client connection, personal growth, and scene-setting: techniques he's gearing up to use in…
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Suzie Mindlin, a 2002 TLC graduate from California, highlights the power of working on your own cases alongside peers at the three-week college and in local working groups—vibrant hubs that have flourished into engines for justice across the U.S. She welcomes lawyers new to TLC training, emphasizing how these collaborative forums foster rapid skill…
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The "Currency" of the Courtroom with Render Freeman
32:23
32:23
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32:23Render C. Freeman—2015 TLC graduate and faculty member since 2018—reflects on his fourth "Courage to Ask" program, where a psychodrama exercise helped participants uncover how personal biases and family history influence the dollar values they assign to cases. He explains why "emotion is the currency of the courtroom" and how psychodramatic tools h…
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Immersive Advocacy: Colby Vokey on the 3 Week Trial Lawyers College
29:48
29:48
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29:48Colby Vokey previews the upcoming three‑week flagship program at Camp Dawson, WV (Oct. 4–27; apply by May 6), and explains why it's a game changer for trial lawyers. Learn how the intensive psychodrama kickoff and the "discovering the story" method sharpen listening, cross‑examination, and narrative skills—transforming both your practice and your p…
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Amanda Harber—a 2017 Trial Lawyers College graduate, F Warrior board president, and former public defender—previews the "In Defense of the Damned" seminar (June 9–13 at IU Maurer Law). She walks us through the week's psychodrama kickoff, powerful listening exercises that deepen attorney–client trust, and a master-class on cross-examination featurin…
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Indigent Representation with Stephen Demik
31:58
31:58
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31:58Stephen Demik, a 2008 TLC graduate and co‑lead for the upcoming Indigent Representation online course, unveils the agenda and shines a spotlight on the often‑underrated art of direct examination—likening its neglect to working with only half your muscles. With just 20 seats available, participants will receive intensely detailed, hands‑on training …
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Eric Davis, co-lead for Defense of the Damned at Indiana University - Maurer School of Law and a board member of the Trial Lawyers College, sheds light on the challenges of practicing criminal defense in death penalty cases. Eric explains how the upcoming course focuses on the art of cross-examination and how TLC offers a rare space for transparenc…
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3 Week College with Ron and Paula Estefan
32:11
32:11
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32:11Ron Estefan, a member of the Trial Lawyers College Board of Directors, along with Paula Estefan, introduces the upcoming 3-Week College program set for October at Camp Dawson, West Virginia. This immersive training retreat offers individual rooms, individual bathrooms, and provided meals. They discuss the importance of this intensive program for en…
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Human Connections with Jessica McLaughlin and Brett Dunn
32:29
32:29
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32:29Marines Jessica McLaughlin and Brett Dunn gear up for an upcoming trial while attending the week-long Trial Skills Foundation Course at Mo Ranch. In this episode, they compare and contrast the nuances of civilian and military court trials, discussing the strategic importance of understanding witnesses' mindsets through TLC techniques. Jessica and B…
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Scott McCann, a first-time student at the Trial Skills Foundation with TLC, describes his first experience with psychodrama as a protagonist. In this episode, Scott discusses how the process of role reversal and exploring diverse perspectives enriches his understanding of jury dynamics. He delves into how facts, experiences, and varied viewpoints s…
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Allison Mahoney, a first-time attendee at the Trial Skills Foundation Course at Mo Ranch, shares her initial impressions of the Trial Lawyers College and her experiences with psychodrama. In this episode, Allison discusses the rapid pace of the course that uniquely facilitates vulnerability and trust among participants, crucial for deep connections…
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Patrick McLain, a 2012 TLC graduate, shares his journey through a challenging three-year-long sexual assault case that recently ended in dismissal. In this episode, Patrick recounts specific instances where employing TLC tactics in court led to both setbacks and successes. He provides a candid look at what it means to be on your feet, advocating fi…
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Ron Estefan, Vice President of the Trial Lawyers College Board of Directors and a 2005 TLC graduate, shares insights from his recent victory in a premises negligence case. This episode dives into how Ron applied TLC methods to navigate lacking conditions and restrictive courtroom environments effectively. Emphasizing a proactive approach, Ron discu…
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The Courage to Ask with Maren Chaloupka and John Sloan
31:32
31:32
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31:32Maren Chaloupka, the current TLC president, and John Sloan, her predecessor, delve into the nuanced TLC approach to advocating for fair compensation in legal settlements and verdicts taught at The Courage to Ask TLC event. They explore the critical process of determining an appropriate sum for clients and discuss the complexities involved in assign…
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Eric Ganci, TLC staff member since 2018, discusses a unique blend of techniques he uses to enhance focus and grounding. In a memorable cross examination session, Eric had a student reverse roles with a client, immersing them fully in the courtroom scenario. Listen as Eric details his experience with working and practicing skills through TLC methods…
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Patricia Anderson provides a comprehensive overview of the Trial Lawyers College's 7-step program, an alternative pathway to graduation. This episode delves into the specifics of the program, outlining the importance and objectives of each step. Patricia explains how these steps are designed to enhance the skills of trial lawyers through personal g…
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Learn how Ross LeBlanc, a civil plaintiff attorney and four-time regional TLC attendee, used his trial skills to secure justice in a devastating DWI case involving the loss of a six-year-old child after Thanksgiving 2022. This episode delves into how Ross prepared for the trial alongside the grieving parents, employing the powerful techniques and s…
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Trial Skills Foundation at Mo Ranch with Ron Estefan
30:09
30:09
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30:09Ron and Rafe revisit their enriching experiences at Mo Ranch during the TSF course, where they collaborated on cases and refined their trial skills. In this episode, they delve into the highlights of their time together, emphasizing the fantastic opportunities for growth and learning. They also explore the concept of psychodrama, discussing how it …
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Join our host, Mark Wagner, as he interviews Rafe Foreman, who shares a moving story from a recent mediation. Rafe recounts how a heartfelt song about grace and forgiveness, sung by his clients, profoundly impacted both him and the opposing counsel. The defendants were so touched that they insisted on joining and listening to the song again, leadin…
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John Sloan, the Immediate Past President of TLC, reflects on his pivotal decision to step down and pass the leadership baton. In this heartfelt episode, John discusses the complexities of transitioning from a role he has cherished and how he plans to continue thriving in new endeavors rather than retiring. Tune in to hear John's insights on leaders…
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Legacy and Strategic Plan with John Sloan and the TLC Board
28:18
28:18
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28:18Join John Sloan, Maren Chaloupka, Laura O'Sullivan, and Ron Estefan for some exciting new announcements regarding the TLC board. Listen to hear the legacy and strategic plan for the future of the Trial Lawyers College.
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Mark Wagner, a 2005 TLC graduate and 2015 faculty member from Washington, shares valuable insights on achieving impactful verdicts and the art of being the jury's assistant. In this episode, explore the strategies that lead to significant "not guilty" verdicts and understand how positioning oneself as an ally and guide for the jury can influence th…
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Come and listen to Cambry Bristow detail the fantastic work accomplished at the F-Warrior's retreat in Nebraska City, Nebraska. She also foreshadows a coming proposal that will be published in the Warrior magazine detailing the future plans for the Trial Lawyer's College. After listening to Cambry tell about the excellent retreat, you might find yo…
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TLC faculty member since 2016, Thomas Davenport, discusses the importance of communication exercises and tactics that explore the range of human perspectives that impact everything from the classroom and the courtroom. Thomas takes us on an exploratory journey about standing up for others even when it's tough, developing hobbies that reduce stress,…
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How To Get a Quarter Billion Dollar Verdict with Dustin Collier and Robin Shishido
42:07
42:07
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42:07Come and listen to Robin and Dusty tell the story of a man who suffered racial discrimination and hear their strategies and exploits of trying a case in Federal Court that is so rural that the judge doesn't even hold motion hearings in the town where the Federal courthouse is located. See how they overcame their fear of trying a case in a rural, co…
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Come and hear how Mart Harris and Patrick McLain overturned a federal judges ruling granting JNOV at the 5th circuit court of appeals.
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In a remarkable streak of victories, Mark Hartman, a 2019 TLC graduate, secured eight consecutive not guilty verdicts, illustrating the power of connection over persuasion in the courtroom. Listen as Mark details the power of connecting as the messenger instead of forcing jurors to abandon their most deeply held beliefs in the 15 minutes he has wit…
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Jeff Watson, Director of Post Master's Doctor of Nursing Practice program at Texas Tech University's Health Science College, discusses his experience in training nurses on being present for patients including providing a good death experience. Jeff explains how the often called "soft skills" are more accurately called essential skills like compassi…
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Join Eli Heller, a recent TLC graduate from 2023, as he details his journey from heartbreaking loss to a recent trial victory after deepening his understanding of openness in the courtroom. Eli describes how he created genuine connections broke down barriers between him, his client, and the jurors.
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Patricia Anderson, a 7 stepper graduate of TLC, details her experiences with avoiding burnout by having fun, unplugging, and keeping things simple in her off time. Patricia shares personal strategies for taking care of oneself, having fun, and avoiding burnout—all while staying authentic. From cultivating hobbies to talking to tomato plants and chi…
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Mike Watson, first joining TLC in 2019, discusses the critical importance of building deep connections with clients in legal practice. In this episode, he emphasizes the necessity of comprehensive communication—knowing the worst and best scenarios—ensuring there are no surprises in court. Mike shares insights on the meticulous process of discoverin…
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Join Mike Smith, a 2019 TLC Graduate and recent addition to the faculty in 2023, as he unpacks the lessons from a recent workshop on a medical malpractice case. In this episode, Mike emphasizes the critical importance of forging connections—not just between attorneys and their clients but also between the jury and the client's story. He shares a po…
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Carlos Concepcion, a law professor in Puerto Rico, dives deep into an innovative exercise for mastering closing arguments. He discusses a compelling piece of video evidence showing an encounter between a man and a woman, which is rich with facts supporting arguments from both sides. The exercise involves pausing the video to identify which facts bo…
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Join Ron Estefan, a dedicated TLC graduate and faculty member since 2005, as he shares valuable insights from the latest TLC events. Ron discusses the recent gatherings in Houston, and the challenges and experiences from the latest event in Las Vegas, New Mexico, including unexpected weather issues. He emphasizes the significance of TLC's home base…
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My Enemy, My Defender with Tim Semmerling
31:40
31:40
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31:40In this revealing episode, Tim Semmerling, a participant at the 2010 Defense of the Damned event, discusses his latest book, 'My Enemy, My Defender.' Tim shares his extraordinary experiences at the 9/11 War Court, where he defended clients under the most challenging conditions, exploring themes of morality, betrayal, and the human side of legal bat…
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