White Cane Coffee: Providing Great Coffee to our Customers and Providing Sustaining Jobs for People with Disabilities – A Job Insights Spotlight

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FUll Transcript Below Show Summary:

Serina Gilbert is always coming across great stories and this one from Erin and Bob at White Cane Coffee is as good as it gets.

Taking a Bad Day and transferring that into the launching of a new company, Erin and Bob, a daughter and son team, tell us why they wanted to start White Cane Coffee and how they want to impact others with the opportunity through the affiliate program coming soon.

You can check out the line of White Cane Coffee on the web at www.WhiteCaneCoffee.comand find the coffee that best suits you.

Here is an overview of White Cane Coffee taken from the web:

Hi, I’m Erin from White Cane Coffee. I, with the help of my parents, started this company to provide great coffee to our customers and provide self sustaining jobs for people with disabilities.

We have a variety of coffee roasts for your enjoyment. Colombian Supremo is sweet, smooth and bold. We also have a Colombian Supremo Decaf which gives you all the same great flavor without all the caffeine. But, if you want that caffeine boost, try our High Octane. Our Donut Shop blend gives you that fruity, clean taste you expect to find in your neighborhood pastry shop. If you like a bold, earthy cup of joe, try our Dark Roast, it is roasted from 100% Indonesian Sumatra beans. French Roast gives you that rich, robust flavor you may crave. Or if you prefer a Breakfast Blend, ours will give you that tangy, fruity flavor you will love. All of our beans are organic and micro-roasted, using hot air to give you the very best quality and flavor.

There is nothing worse than waking up in the morning and discovering you are out of coffee. (I shudder at the mere thought of it). So, that is why we offer a subscription service so you can receive your favorite White Cane Coffee right on your door step every month. If you make your subscription for a full year, we will cover your shipping. You will also notice that, other than our sample box, (which I highly recommend so you find the right blend for you), our coffee arrives in 1 pound and 2 pound packages. You will actually get what you expect you are paying for.

Now a bit about White Cane Coffee, and why we standout. The reason I wanted to start White Cane Coffee is because, number one, “Who doesn’t love coffee.”. But most importantly, my brothers and I are all on the Autism Spectrum and I am also blind. We have found that finding jobs extremely difficult. In our experience, employers didn’t want to provide full time or a living wages to handicapped individuals. Or because of bullying on the job site staying at some jobs unbearable. So, at 22, I started to ask, “When you have the right people around you, the question stops being, What can I do? but What’s stopping me”. So here we are.

Our goal is to provide a welcoming environment to all people and provide jobs to the handicapped community at a living wage. Most of all, we want to provide you with a Great cup of coffee!

Check out this episode of Job Insights and send us your feedback and topic suggestions by email.

Follow the Job Insights team on twitter @JobInsightsVIP

Job Insights is part of the Blind Abilities network.

Contact:

Thank you for listening! You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store.

Full Transcript

Jeff Thompson: I saw one on there that was called the high octane.

Bob: Yeah, that one's double the caffeine, double have fun.

Serena Gilbert: Do not ship that one to Jeff.

Jeff Thompson: Job Insights, a podcast to help you carve out your career pathway and enhance the opportunities for gainful employment.

Serena Gilbert: I saw a post from White Cane Coffee, and I was intrigued because the name, I think it's like a super awesome name for a company.

Jeff Thompson: Learn about resources for training, education and employment opportunities.

Erin: I swear, the excitement for me is just constant, because again, I'm just branching out on new things, I'm meeting with people in the community, I'm on podcast now. There's always new things that we're doing, so one part of it may not be as flashy or exciting as it was, but there's a new part that's brand sparkling new and just like, yeah.

Jeff Thompson: You will hear from people seeking careers, employment from professionals in the educational field, teachers, and innovators in this ever changing world of technology.

Speaker 5:

That's an easy one to remember, because everyone knows the white game, everyone loves coffee and.com there you go.

Jeff Thompson: For more podcasts with the blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter @BlindAbilities and download our free Blind Abilities App from the APP store, that's two words, blind abilities. Now please welcome Serena Gilbert and Jeff Thompson with Job Insights.

Erin: If they do find work, it's for absolutely a pittance amount of money, so we're just like, let's employ them and pay them fairly.

Jeff Thompson: Welcome to the Job Insights. I'm Jeff Thompson and with me is Serena Gilbert. How are you doing Serena?

Serena Gilbert: I am doing absolutely fantastic, Jeff, how are you?

Jeff Thompson: I'm doing good. You came across a great company on Facebook and invited them on. Tell us a little bit about it.

Serena Gilbert: I was scrolling through Facebook like I do for, I don't even know how many hours a day at this point, and I saw a post from White Cane Coffee and I was intrigued because, well of course, first the name, I think it's like a super awesome name for a company, and secondly, what their mission was and how they started a company to be able to have nice jobs for individuals with disabilities to be able to be a little bit more self-sustaining. I really, really liked that idea.

Jeff Thompson: Entrepreneurship right there. I like it.

Serena Gilbert: Of course.

Jeff Thompson: Well we got them here in the studio. Let's welcome. Erin and Bob from White Cane Coffee. How are you guys doing?

Erin: We're doing well.

Bob: Doing wonderful, glad to be here.

Jeff Thompson: Well, thank you for taking the time, coming on to Job Insights. It's exciting, it's exciting. I read Erin's article on Facebook and yeah, I really liked it. Bang, here we are. Let's start it out by what got you started with White Cane Coffee?

Erin: Well, honestly it started with me having a bad day, and so just it's hard when you're disabled and trying to find a job and just, it's frustrating. When I'm frustrated like that, me and my dad will play games, like we'll create [inaudible] or in this case we were just like, if you had x amount of money, what would you do to grow it? And so one day we started with a coffee company and then we just kept talking about this coffee company just like, well, what would you do with this, or what would you do with that? It's just like, well, why not hire people with disabilities for one thing, and just it kept growing until eventually were just like, Oh, we're actually doing this, aren't we?

Bob: Yeah. That was about six months ago, and so then it was just doing research, figuring out exactly what it was going to take to create this coffee company. And so that meant we needed an accountant, we needed an attorney, we needed to figure out how we were going to get our coffee roasted, packaging, getting the shipping, getting the website up. It became a creature unto itself, but the best part was we had fun doing it and right now, I mean, the response we're getting, even from our local community, they love our coffee. We did a couple of hundred sample bags or whatever, and we just gave them out to everyone, and everyone said, "Oh isn't that [inaudible]."

Bob: And then they called back and said, "You know, that was really good coffee. I need more."

Bob: Now every time we turn around, somebody's calling us up saying, "We need more." That's our whole thing is getting the word out, letting people know we have great coffee.

Serena Gilbert: That's fantastic, Bob, and I know you have kind of a unique business model. Do you want to share with us some of the services that customers can receive from your coffee business?

Bob: The key is, they can go online at whitecanecoffee.com, and one of the first things that shows up, the first item there is a sample box because people always say, what is your best coffee? Well, they're all great, so it all depends on the customer. We suggest to them, order up the sample box, try them all, find the one that fits your likes, then order whether it's subscription or it's a [inaudible], whatever the case may be, but we want them to find the one they like the best. That's really our model, that in a nutshell is our coffee is roasted fresh for them. Most coffees that you get, say at a grocery store and some of the big names that I'm not going to mention but we all know who they are, those sit in a warehouse for up to a year before they even get to the store. We like our coffee what, how old Erin?

Erin: About a week fresh, so from the time we package that to the point where it gets to your door, it's only about a week old, so you know you're going to get the freshest cup of coffee that you are able to have.

Jeff Thompson: I couldn't help it but I saw one on there that was called high octane.

Bob: Yeah, that one's double the caffeine, double the fun.

Serena Gilbert: Do not ship that one too Jeff, Oh my goodness.

Bob: Don't ship that one. That one is actually very popular, especially the people work like third shifts or you know-

Erin: The mid night hour [inaudible].

Bob: They're the ones who order it and they go, the flavor's great [inaudible] and we're awake. And I said, well that's pretty much what it does.

Erin: [inaudible] through testing.

Bob: Yeah, that one was hard.

Jeff Thompson: You mentioned earlier you had a tough three weeks of testing coffee and that must've been fun, because none of these go out without you guys knowing what exactly you're selling.

Erin: Exactly.

Bob: Exactly, that's I mean each time ... We roaster whatever, we sample it. It doesn't just like oh it's good enough. The good enough is never good enough. The product has to be right every time it goes out, because that's our reputation that's on the line here. We're not some huge mega corporation where you get a bad pot of coffee and lose a customer they go, eh. With us, that doesn't work that way. Every customer needs to be happy.

Jeff Thompson: And they can find this at whitecanecoffee.com.

Bob: Correct.

Erin: Yup.

Jeff Thompson: That's an easy one to remember, because knows the White Cane, everyone loves coffee and .com, there you go.

Bob: That was even our reasoning of naming the company and with our logo, with the young girl, with the white cane, we want people to know exactly who we are, when they see our logo, they know.

Erin: It was [inaudible] a blind disabled person or blind disabled people, people and just disabled people, and people, people.

Jeff Thompson: People, people. I like it.

Bob: But that was it. We want people to know exactly who we are and what we're about, the transparency, I guess is the new buzzword that everybody uses, but that is important. They need to know who we are. When they go on our Facebook page or whatever, and even once the about page is done finally on the website, there's a picture of Erin right there. She is the face of our company, this is her baby. There's no big corporate board room back here where everybody's hanging out.

Jeff Thompson: Yeah.

Erin: Home grown.

Jeff Thompson: It's amazing the way you can start by just having a bad day, right Erin?

Erin: I know.

Bob: Isn't that how all the great companies have started though, is somebody sitting around saying there's a problem and then eventually somebody says, Hey, I think we can fix it.

Jeff Thompson: Solution based, there you go.

Serena Gilbert: Well, I understand that you guys employ a few individuals that also have disabilities. Is that correct?

Erin: Yes.

Bob: Yes.

Serena Gilbert: Tell us a little bit about what made you design your business in that way?

Erin: Well, if I was having trouble finding a job for my disability, and there is a huge population in our town of disabled people on who just cannot find work, or if they do find work, it's for absolutely a pittance amount of money, so we're just like, let's employ them and pay them fairly.

Jeff Thompson: I like that.

Bob: We're all about living wage. People sit in and say, well, like I said, you know, if you have a sheltered workshop, there's no bottom to how much they can pay their employees. Like ours, we have one here nearby and they pay about a dollar, dollar 10 an hour is what they pay their employees. You can't live on that. And second of all, with social security at 750 a month, I think it is, you can't live on that. I mean, you can't pay rent, you can't pay utilities, you can't do anything. They're all into survival mode. Well, there's more to life than just survival mode. We want people to have a decent wage, so at the end of the week they can pay all their bills and you know what, there's still some money left-over to do what they want to do and have some fun.

Jeff Thompson: And buy some coffee.

Bob: Buy more.

Jeff Thompson: There you go.

Serena Gilbert: Very smart business model there.

Bob: That's what it really was all about. Not only have we found work for Erin and her brothers now, but we're finding work for people who are just like her because that's what you're supposed to do.

Jeff Thompson: Erin, on your picture on Facebook, you do have a cane here wearing sunglasses, so you are blind?

Erin: Correct. I only have 5% of my vision left.

Jeff Thompson: When did that start?

Erin: I started to lose my vision when I was about 15.

Jeff Thompson: Did it affect you in how you did your education at school?

Erin: Yes actually. I had to, with assistance, essence basically people reading me the questions on the test. I graduated high school at 15.

Serena Gilbert: Look at that, wow. That's not an easy accomplishment. That's awesome, Erin.

Erin: Thank you.

Serena Gilbert: Yeah, I could not imagine.

Jeff Thompson: That's awesome for anybody.

Serena Gilbert: Yeah, it's a big deal.

Jeff Thompson: Wow.

Bob: Well, Erin was in the gifted program when she was in school, and so it wasn't much of a challenge for the school just to allow her basically to test out. It was interesting and it's like, okay, here's all the subjects you can pass everything, you can graduate and she did.

Erin: Through the first try and they're just like, yeah, okay, that's fair.

Bob: She had her diploma and we moved on.

Jeff Thompson: There you go. You might want to give that college thing a try, that might be a piece of cake too.

Bob: Someday.

Jeff Thompson: There you go.

Bob: But right now, like I said, we're challenged in what we're doing and I think right now as this company is growing here, this is going to keep her busy for many, many years to come.

Jeff Thompson: That's great.

Erin: We're hoping the best for this.

Jeff Thompson: It's nice to have a challenge, and to challenge yourself and that's what we all kind of look for, is to accept the challenges and it keeps you waking up in the morning with a good cup of coffee, that helps too, right Serena?

Serena Gilbert: Of course. Now if you guys start shipping out hot chocolate I'm in, because I'm not much of a coffee drinker because it makes me completely stay up for days. But some hot chocolate, I'll be totally about it.

Erin: [inaudible] considered it yet, but maybe in the distant future, we're thinking maybe hot chocolate or teas or something like that, but for right now we're strictly coffee.

Jeff Thompson: Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't know she wasn't a coffee drinker. I would've got someone else to come on the podcast, sorry Bob.

Serena Gilbert: Oh Jeff.

Bob: On of the other things we are trying to do here is, hopefully within the next week is we are setting up affiliate programs so that other people who are blind and disabled all across the country can also be a part of this company, because we would love to see White Cane Coffee basically in every town, business, home across this nation. I want people, no matter where they go, they're going to see White Cane Coffee on Facebook, on Instagram, Twitter. That's the name of this game here. We have a great product, and we want to be able to share that with everyone in the United States, and we also want people to be able to earn a living as affiliates across the country, because let's face it, people like Erin and you guys or whatever all over, and so that the name of the game is let's create as many jobs as we can.

Bob: People who will be able to sign up as affiliates on the website and what will happen is, they'll be given basically their own code that'll go on the end of whitecanecoffee.com, it'll be like, let's say in Jeff's case it might be whitecanecoffee.com/Jeff. Now Jeff's going to sit there and say, hey, all my friends, guess what? White Cane Coffee, great stuff, give it a shot. Here's their email address, and it'll be that one there. Any sales that those make, Jeff would then get a commission on. Does that make sense?

Serena Gilbert: Yeah. I think that's awesome that you're building that, because a lot of the big company, like obviously Amazon, they have an affiliate program, target all kinds of places. I think it's great that you're seizing that opportunity to allow some of our audience to be able to have some fairly passive income coming in with being able to share their affiliate links and things like that. That's very unique to small businesses and I like that.

Bob: Yeah, because we all have our own networks. I have my friends who are on Facebook and on Twitter and everything like that. You have your friends and acquaintances and business contacts on yours and Jeff does. We all have these little things, that's why they call it the web. The more that web over it goes on each other, then guess what? That's when the company grows.

Erin: This way, we're not just helping our towns own disabled group, we're helping other towns and the State disabled groups.

Jeff Thompson: Oh, that's great. I like that idea. It gives me something, you know, I never wanted to do an Avon, Mary Kay or stuff like that, Tupperware. Now I can do White Cane Coffee.

Serena Gilbert: But just this morning, Jeff, you were giving me some makeup tips, so I don't know.

Bob: That's one of the things that people always, you know, because we've talked to a few people on the go, well, what's it going to cost us? It doesn't cost you anything. I mean that's the whole key. We'd like you to try our coffee, but if you don't drink coffee or whatever, that doesn't stop you from-

Erin: Getting the word out there.

Bob: And being involved.

Jeff Thompson: Awesome. I like it.

Serena Gilbert: I for one, when you guys get that up and running, please send us a link or message in that group chat that we have going, because I will definitely spread the word for you guys. I think that's awesome what you're doing.

Bob: Absolutely. We'll make sure you guys get the invite to it and that, and that's the goal, we want as many people as we can. If 10,000 people sign up as affiliates, fantastic. Because that's 10,000 people who are going to try to do something and that's what we want to see.

Jeff Thompson: I like it. Let's check it out, whitecanecofee.com, you go there, it says buy coffee. I clicked on buy coffee and I had eight choices. The first one was the package box and for $20, no tax, no shipping, it's delivered to your door. You can sample all the flavors, and the flavors come in, Colombian Supremo, Colombian Supremo Decaf, Breakfast Blend, Dark Roast, Doughnut Shop, French Roast, and my future favorite, High Octane. You have a choice of 16 ounces or 32 ounces. 16 ounces is going to run you $14.99, and 32 ounces is discounted a little bit at $27.99 and you can opt for a one month, three month, six month up to a 12 month subscription. That means it will be delivered to your door once a month and you don't have to lift a finger.

Jeff Thompson: An incentive to do the 12 months subscription is there's no shipping costs, thus allowing you to save $7 and 50 cents every month just by subscribing to a 12 month. That's quite a savings. At $14.99 I think it's very affordable. When you click on one of these flavors such as the High Octane, it'll take you to the page and they'll do a write up on what that flavor is all about, probably high octane I imagine, or the French Roast, or the Breakfast Blend. They'll all have a description there. Check out the about page, because that talk about Erin and her story and what the company's all about and it'll have some of this information then it just relayed to you. With that in mind, let's get back to the show.

Jeff Thompson: Erin, I want to go back to something, do you use an iPhone?

Erin: I use an iPad, it seems to work best for me.

Jeff Thompson: Oh, that's good. With voiceover.

Erin: Oh my gosh, yes.

Jeff Thompson: There you go.

Erin: So much voiceover.

Jeff Thompson: Yeah, we're all about tech and we love our voiceover stuff with the iPhones. Not knocking any of the android stuff, it's coming along.

Erin: Yeah, but Apple just seems to have, it has everything that you need for that.

Jeff Thompson: Yep, they're doing good, and so are you guys whitecanecoffee.com, everyone go check it out, go sign up, get the sample pack, you can figure it out which one you like best and then place your orders. It comes once a month, right to your doorstep, and if you order annually, they knock off the price of shipping so you can save a little money there. Erin, Bob, I want to thank you for taking the time to coming onto Job Insights and sharing with us your, well Erin's bad day innovation, her entrepreneurship and starting this company. Serena, do you have anything else you want to ask?

Serena Gilbert: Just do us a favor and tell our audience where they can find you on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram.

Erin: You can find us at White Cane Coffee on Facebook. You can find this on White Cane Coffee on Tumbler, weirdly enough.

Bob: We're setting up our Twitter and Instagram pages because Instagram and Facebook kind of work hand in hand together now, so when you advertise on one, you advertise on both. It's always funny, we always say, we need to get some of the big influencers on Instagram or something of that nature, one of the Kardashians. [inaudible] say, hey White Cane Coffee, and things would go insane at that point, but no, the goal is we're getting the word out and we're really happy that you guys contacted us and wanted to hear what we're doing.

Serena Gilbert: We absolutely love sharing what individuals in our community are doing, especially when it comes to employment and being able to live a little bit more independently, so we were happy to have you on.

Erin: We were absolutely ecstatic to be on.

Serena Gilbert: Do you guys have any questions or any additional information that you'd like to share?

Bob: We look forward to seeing your podcast, because you're on YouTube, is that correct?

Jeff Thompson: We're on YouTube, we're on Apple, you can download the Blind Abilities App right to your iPad and iPhone, any device like that. Pod Catchers just search for Blind Abilities, that's two words, Blind Abilities.

Serena Gilbert: He's so trained over there. Oh my goodness.

Bob: Sounds great, we look forward to that. Keep in touch with us, we like talking to people who are in the community, kind of how we find out what's going on. We hope that these conversations will go on for long time in the future.

Serena Gilbert: Of course.

Bob: It's funny, since we went on Facebook and started doing this, you guys just kind of caught our attention. It's like okay let's do this and-

Erin: Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Bob: Absolutely.

Serena Gilbert: Next step is shark tank, right?

Bob: Oh God no. No, never Shark Tank. Venture capitalists are about making money, we're about making a difference and so that would probably never happen.

Jeff Thompson: I like that line. Put it on my tee shirt, or my coffee cup. There you go.

Serena Gilbert: I will definitely be checking out your guys' website because I do have coffee drinkers in my family, so I might even show it to my husband, because we have a Keurig, but we have the little thing where you can put the coffee beans or in it and trick it.

Jeff Thompson: Well, Serena, if you check out the website, they do have a coffee that has low caffeine.

Serena Gilbert: Even for you, that would be too much caffeine.

Bob: I'll tell you, if your husband likes that robust flavor, get the Colombian. If you like a coffee that's real smooth, you don't need milk or anything, look at the Dark Roast, it is so smooth. There's no bitterness to it.

Serena Gilbert: Oh Wow.

Jeff Thompson: Well I think I'm going to try the sample because I've always liked looking for that coffee that it tastes good and it does everything that you want it to do in the flavor without having to add the cream or this or the other thing. I just want that perfect blend.

Erin: Yeah. We hope you like it.

Bob: Yeah, get online after you're done with us, just go right to White Cane Coffee, you order tonight, they'll be out in the mail in the morning.

Serena Gilbert: Oh Wow. That's fast.

Jeff Thompson: There we go. The UPS or FedEx, one of those businesses know where you live, right?

Bob: Absolutely. They're here up quite a bit, picking up boxes.

Jeff Thompson: That's cool.

Bob: They're happy, it keeps them working I guess.

Serena Gilbert: Exactly.

Erin: [inaudible] when we first started, they were so confused.

Bob: They really were, but now they're just kind of used to it, they bring the truck up and get the boxes.

Jeff Thompson: Is the excitement gone? I mean, usually if the UPS truck pulls up in front of my place, I'm like, oh.

Serena Gilbert: What did I order?

Jeff Thompson: Yeah, I'm like rubbing my hands together.

Erin: I swear, the excitement for me is just constant because again, I'm branching out on new things, I'm meeting with people in the community, I'm on podcast now. There's always new things that we're doing in the company to sort of get the word out, so yeah, it's just like, okay, so one part of it may not be as flashy or exciting as it was, but there's a new part that's brand sparkling new and just like yeah.

Bob: Like in November, the Pennsylvania National Federation for the Blind has their convention in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Well now they're talking about having Erin come and speak at the convention.

Jeff Thompson: Oh, that's great.

Serena Gilbert: That's huge. That's awesome.

Bob: I wish she can make a difference. We really are looking forward to this, it's amazing. Everyone in this country drinks coffee, 90% of the people truly do have coffee first thing in the morning, that's what starts their day.

Jeff Thompson: Take notes Serena.

Erin: It's something that's so ingrained into our society, that coffee [inaudible] to help people with disabilities was just a no brainer. How many times have you heard in cartoons like, don't talk to me before I've had my coffee. I mean, when I was a little kid, on Christmas, we weren't allowed to open our presents until mum and dad had their coffee. I learned how to make coffee at age eight.

Bob: No coffee, no presents.

Erin: Just like brothers have already sorted out the gifts, specialized mugs in each hand they come downstairs, here you go, let's open presents.

Jeff Thompson: There you go, and now you can do it with White Cane Coffee.

Serena Gilbert: Exactly.

Bob: Exactly. It's fun for everyone. I like seeing Erin excited. I like seeing her brother's excited. I like seeing the other workers excited because when they come to work, they're excited to be useful and to have a purpose. You know, that when they're here that they're welcome here, and we adapt to their needs instead of like a lot of jobs you have to adapt to the company. We kind of do it the other way around, we adapt to each person individually. What are their needs, what's going to make their experience here working better for them because we found if they're happy, they're much more productive, and so it's a win-win on both sides

Erin: This may sound odd, but with some people's disabilities they have such strengths and others are like one of our workers, even though they are very autistic, they are also very hyper focused and are perfectionists, so we know every label is going to be on perfectly just like, alright, you do you man.

Jeff Thompson: There you go. I like that where you're creating opportunities and not limiting them but enhancing their opportunities by embracing their set of skills that they have.

Bob: Oh exactly.

Erin: Exactly, and once you have the right people around you, it really is, you can do almost anything with it.

Jeff Thompson: I like what you're doing Erin.

Bob: We don't sit around and say, oh, what can I do? It's more of what's stopping us from moving on, changing things and making things better for everyone involved, and coffee is that venue that is allowing us to do that.

Jeff Thompson: Oh, I tip my cup to you guys.

Serena Gilbert: We really appreciate your time.

Bob: Absolutely.

Jeff Thompson: Thanks Bob. Thanks Erin.

Bob: You all have a good evening.

Erin: It was great talking to you guys.

Jeff Thompson: All right.

[Music] [Transition noise] -When we share

-What we see

-Through each other's eyes...

[Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]

...We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities.

Jeff Thompson:

For more podcasts with the blindness perspective:

Check us out on the web at www.BlindAbilities.com On Twitter @BlindAbilities

Download our app from the App store: 'Blind Abilities'; that's two words.

Or send us an e-mail at:

info@blindabilities.com

Thanks for listening.

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