Marketing and Education - Live Episode 1

Marketing Study Lab - Actionable Marketing Knowledge

Marketing and Education - LIVE Episode 04.09.20

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Guest: Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang (https://www.linkedin.com/in/aiaddysonzhang/)

Topic: Marketing and Education

Discussion Points

• How Marketing Qualifications can help with foundational knowledge
• What you need to be doing to be a good all-round Marketer
• How far can a Professional Marketing Qualification get you?
• What is wrong with our school system
• What isn’t being taught in Marketing education
• Why practical application is important to education
• The 70-20-10 rule of learning
• What good is CV in today's modern business world

Link to the live video:https://www.linkedin.com/video/live/urn:li:ugcPost:6715289765270315009/

Enjoy the Episode - Happy Marketing!

Website Thingy: www.marketingstudylab.co.uk The Professional Bit: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petersumpton/ Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/marketingstudylab/ Tweet Tweet: https://twitter.com/cousinp81

Transcript (this transcript isn’t 100% accurate but provides a decent representation of the conversation – soz for any confusion)

Peter Sumpton 0:03

Hello and welcome. My name is Peter Sumpton, the Lego master of marketing. And you're listening to the marketing study lab podcast live. Well, this bit isn't live, but the rest of it is. You'll hear a bit about that later. I mean, now, let's crack on. These episodes are taken from my live show marketing, where we look at the relationship between marketing and a specific topic subject or specialism, sometimes there'll be guests Other times, it'll just be me. So let's get cracking. Okay, here we are. First first guest no introduction needed so much. So I haven't even prepared an introduction. Because Because I know the doctor, I will have my own introduction cuz she appears everywhere, all the time constantly, probably falls asleep, saying her introduction whenever she's live. whenever she's on social, so, Doctor, I don't think I've ever called you that before. But,

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 1:06

you know, I needed to show some respect.

Peter Sumpton 1:08

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. Doctor, I firstly introduce yourself and then I'll explain what the heck we're gonna be talking about for the next half an hour, 40 minutes, something like that,

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 1:19

I'm really excited.

I'm a fan of Peter. I love everything you do, and really honour to be your very first guest on aalnc live and congratulations, you know, gaining access to LinkedIn live. So for me, I'm a professor dropout. And I taught in the classroom for 10 plus years, and really believe that current education model is broken and decided to leave the broken system to build a better system. So I left teaching, and I then started to build my own school, which is classroom without wars.

It has been

incredible. journey and I wish I started their journey earlier. But everything happens for a reason. So I'm really thankful for where I am today. I'm still a teacher, but on a much different stage.

Peter Sumpton 2:12

I love the fact you call yourself a professor dropout. It's almost like you know, you went to that university you went to that college and you got halfway through your education. And you just stopped now this isn't to me. I just love that

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 2:24

kolonie Yeah, it's definitely not for me I actually the last several years while I was a teacher, I cried. There's so much every single semester and just seeing how broken the educational system is. And I wanted to help my students more but I couldn't I felt very helpless and that killed me and I I don't enjoy that feeling at home but now I love it a lot more so yes, dropout

iPod.

Peter Sumpton 2:55

So anybody that doesn't know or hasn't seen check out classroom without walls. Absolutely. mazing programme doing wonderful, wonderful things. I'll drop some links in comments after this live because I'm not as proficient in you are as you are with your lives. And so I'm kind of new to all this kind of stuff. And one thing I've learned is how you put a ticker on on stream, which sounds really stupid, but bit of admin going on in the background. So what I'm going to do is press this funky button, and there you go. So what we're going to talk about today is marketing and education. And what I mean by that is you just said your professor dropout, the system's broken in terms of education, myself, I'm fully educated right through the system, school, six, former college, university, all that kind of stuff and then postgrads through professional qualifications. So So for me, it's our many, many years of going through that system. And seeing all these things, but because of the way we're brought up, not actually seeing what could be broken and what you could be doing differently. So that was a bit of a long ramble. But what I want to get across is that I personally think there's a mixture of this lifelong learning and education to an extent dependent on your profession. But what I'd like to go through first is your take on education at this moment in time your take on the state of education at the moment.

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 4:33

Yeah, and I see our friend Lance, oh, my God, what time is your freelance 3pm and so

Peter Sumpton 4:41

always joins you it doesn't matter what time I think Lance is a robot, Lance. Just reply, so we know you know, a robot that would be really handy.

He doesn't sleep. So I think

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 4:53

the current education model is so broken

especially for those people who are interested in Becoming a marketer starting a business become your creative, or social entrepreneur. And I don't think the traditional education is the best way to develop those important of soft and hardest skills. And you know, one example I always say so for example, and in the US, we call this GPA, which is great point average. So pretty much academic performance. Most of students and parents and teachers, they are really obsessed with their grades, right? And am I getting a 4.0? Like how many A's I'm going to earn a point that's actually a while important reason I left my teaching position. I got so tired of that. But do you actually know research has shown GPA or academic performance is actually inversely related to innovation orientation. So in other words, you know if we want to you and I were entrepreneurs, we know how important it is to eat No wait, how important it is to be creative, like marketing, you need some sort of creativity. And GPA is now too good to benchmark. But can you imagine a student going through the traditional educational system, the only thing they feel like they need to pay attention to is you know, I need to get that a for my marketing class, then you are really killing their innovation to be a good marketer. So here's just one example to show the kind of how broken the education model is. And speaking from my from my personal experience, you know, I used to teach social media marketing, I used to teach public relations and communication classes, but I never practice anything that I used to teach. Until I became a practitioner. I started to finally understand, oh my god, this is actually social media marketing. This is actually how you build a business. This is how you promote yourself. I didn't understand anything. Like I mentioned earlier from my, you know, master degree from my PhD degree. I learned so many theories, but it's not what I needed to know successfully run my business. I think that is a big, big missing link in today's education, you know, for marketing and business.

Peter Sumpton 7:22

Yeah, I agree with you going through that system, myself entirely. I know nearly every single step of the way I would have benefited 100% from having that experience from having that hands on experience on a whole host of different things to know and understand how you apply theory or how it works in the real world. I think you need both Meet Me personally, I feel you do need both particularly in marketing. So let me just explain that and get get your thoughts on it. What I mean by that is that to be in I talk about an all round marketer. So to become an all round marketer, you need a whole host of things that people don't necessarily see as marketing. So if you take the traditional models like the four P's product, price, place promotion, a bit bit tacky, there are no but if you take those four P's, then you take promotion away from a marketer, they should still be able to do their jobs that leaves them with place, it leaves them with product, and it leaves them with price. But a lot of those things have been taken away from marketing. And I don't think many people could do a marketing role a marketing manager role or above without having that educational piece on, on pricing, on on distribution, and on product development, and all that kind of thing. But the calm side of it, I think is where we get hugely confused. So the communication side, I personally think you could spend six months on YouTube, on LinkedIn, and a whole host of different platforms and learning from people and under On these platforms and understand how you communicate with people, but the other parts of marketing, I think are very, very sorely missed. And that's the educational piece that I think is warranted in marketing. So what what's your thoughts on on those kind of elements?

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 9:16

I agree. And also I read an article talking about the four PE, they also added a face p, which is people, right? So when you think about the four p they're all developed from the organisational perspective right? So what is a prize? How am I going to promote is always about me as the organisation right? But when you add the fifth p which is p PL, you are actually shifting your perspective, from only Rukia and me to look at the people that you are actually serving. So I actually write that. Yeah, and I agree, you know, I think both theory and practice are important just like when, like in my earlier interior interview, we're talking about you know, both hard skills and soft skills are really important. And I think even if you are, you are extremely good at pressing a practice and theory they are inter related, right. Yeah. So one informs the other. And in my case is when I, my, my old self was that I had way too many theories, but I never practice any of the theories. So I didn't really understand what the theory means, right? So the theory is mainly at the conceptual level, I didn't know how to apply. So on the other hand, if you are only a practitioner, if you don't have any theoretical grounding, and I think it is very hard for you to grow and scale, you know, you and I were talking about how important it is to develop a pathway of methodology, your own theory, so eventually, it's now me that run the business, right? It is this model. This theory actually does the work so I could remove myself from the business. Anyone who I understand the theory, anyone who understands how to apply this can do their job. So I'm slowly removing myself. But if you don't have that, you know, like peeler or like foundation series, I think it's just very hard to even for you to explain what exactly do you do? And how do you facilitate that transformation? So I think both are important. It's like hard skill and soft skills. You need both to succeed in life.

Peter Sumpton 11:30

Yeah, I can completely agree with you. Like, if I the one thing that I always say about my education is if I could go back and start again, well, I do a whole lot of things differently. But if I had to rerun it, if you like, and I was at university, I would take that gap year I would take that year out in industry, I would take as many opportunities to be in a business, running a business or starting my own business while learning on the job.

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 12:01

point I think even if you feel like uncomfortable, oh my god, I have never run a business before. I don't know how to get started by this way social media and technology, you can discover those people, you can have conversations with them by I'm an advocate of launching a podcast for you, when you launch your podcast, you can interview those people, you can actually ask them about the ins and outs of this particular a potential profession that you are going to, you know, devote four years in college, maybe a few years in graduate school to study. But before that I think you should at least know he says even for you, and why are you even interested in this? And what do people actually do on a daily basis about this particular profession? Very few students actually had a conversation like that before they declare a major right. So by the time they graduate or by the time they're in their senior year, they're like, Oh my god, this is not running for me. But they have already invested in so much time and their parents money, like to lead up to to now play the game anymore. You just have to do it. That is that's how people got stuck in their life. Time their 40s they're not happy, they're stuck.

Peter Sumpton 13:19

So, Seth Seth Godin on his podcast akimbo many, many podcast episodes ago, he did one about sunk costs, and saying that you get to a certain stage and you've put so much money into something that the money you have invested so far, you you cannot see past. Just keep going. Because you've invested that money and if you leave it, it seemed as a waste not seeing the rest of money as a waste because you're going to be unhappy. But seeing it just as a, you have to go because you've already sunk that cost into your education into becoming a lawyer into not making you happy, basic. Huh,

Unknown Speaker 14:00

yeah,

Peter Sumpton 14:01

I feel great. Lance isn't a robot. And it's actually 3:36am on a Saturday for him, but lunch, he must be a robot if you're up at that time. And he also went straight into work after school in 1968, and I think he's been up ever since 1968 by the looks of it. And then, Christina, thank you for joining us. She agrees a balance is good. But she also says that there was a comment, she agreed and something in terms of a balance between business and marketing, in terms of degree and how you're learning it is hugely important, which again, thanks for joining us.

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 14:45

I'm going to show I I'm just reading Christina's comment and she said that, you know, like having as much as I think she said that once she has that degree, she was Howard in it. I think that is definitely the case. I don't know how old you are like whilst looking for jobs. You know, I think people are looking for that piece of paper, looking for that the grey, but I think that is changing. Like weeks ago, I posted on my own social media that Google, they announced they are launching their own career certifications to replace the traditional college four year college degree. And think about why Google jumps into this. I think they are there are going to be a lot more. But you see that in social media marketing, right, a HubSpot Academy. They have so many social media certifications, powered by practitioners. So if I were student learning social media marketing, I would be investing in HubSpot Academy. Yeah, and going to a traditional college degree. I learned from a professor who has never run any social media marketing campaign before so I learned a bunch of theories as to Don't know what to do. So the reason for Google and so many other companies to be involved in higher education is because one of the reasons is how expensive it is to onboard a college grad, like my husband works in the nine to five job. He's constantly complaining about the students, you know, they don't know anything, they don't have the skills. So they still have to spend so much time and so much money to train those students. Right. So why do I have to do this, you know, to train the students to unlock or what they were taught. Why don't I directly get involved in their education? Yeah, four years ago, there's education futurist from Harvard University. He predicted in 2018, that 50% five zero 50% of American colleges and universities will go bankrupt in the next 10 years and I've seen called rate has definitely accelerated that and my friends are losing their jobs, smaller colleges, they are just being bought by bigger ones. So I think you know, the value that we put on that piece of paper to answer Christina's comment, I think is becoming less and less valuable and more companies are going to realise that and I can't wait for that day to home.

Peter Sumpton 17:24

Yeah, completely. It's interesting how things are shifting and I think this this year 2020 has shifted things a lot and accelerated things a lot like online learning. And I was listening to a podcast that before we dived on this live and it was Mark Ritson talking about his mini MBA which is which is purely online and it lasts 12 weeks or something. And I think their their net promoter score NPS is like in the 80s or 90s or something, it's unreal, but it's because Causing value. And what he was saying on the podcast is that there's there's a lot of rubbish online that gives you bad information or bad learning or bad education. And it's the same in universities. There's a lot of bad education and bad learning. And it's, I suppose it's making sure that whatever you choose, and like you said previously, if you've got a professor that's teaching you how to do something, and they're not doing it. Well, I wouldn't want to go to a dentist or even a hairdresser. And I've had my head on. Had to get that in, was waiting for the comments, but no one said anything. So I have to say it myself. No, but I wouldn't even go to a hairdresser that hadn't been qualified to cut hair in in some way. I learned something along the way. And it was weird because I had this conversation with my hairdresser and he said, Yeah, but Pete, you could you could study for for 12 months. The Art of hairdresser dressing. If you've never caught somebody's hair practically, you're not going to know what you're going to do. You're not going to do know what to do when things go wrong. And I suppose that really hit home to me that that is a really good point because anyone can run anything, as long as it's going well, but when it goes wrong, things change. What do you do?

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 19:20

Amen. And Peter right,

you have been hosting my show,

how can you host my show? I don't even know for like so long. But even today, when you are actually hosting the show, there are still few points Oh, I didn't know about that. Right. Even though you are kind of

doing this for

so long there

still. So that is a great example to show that you know, practices doing this is the best way to learn. So one of my favourite education theory or leadership development is called 70 2010. Some of you who watch my show, you're probably familiar with that. So what that means is that for any transformation to happen, your learner only Hundred percent of that transformation comes from formal learning, reading a book

and taking a class.

And, you know, like, whatever, watch your video, so that is only 10% 20% is social learning, actually having peer to peer discussions, talking with my mentors, talking with

Unknown Speaker 20:21

the coaches,

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 20:22

that is 20%. So 70% is actually experiential learning, learning through application, right. So traditional education just like the example you've mentioned already, you know, learning how to hear or learning how to swing, learn how to cook, you cannot become a good swimmer by only doing that 10%, right. You need the 20% you need especially the 70%. But when it comes to marketing, business, and psychology and many other disciplines in academia, people just somehow forget the 70% Since these things are 10% and 20%, it will do their job. No, that's why so many people graduate from college, they couldn't find jobs. They don't have the relevant skill. Right. Another study last year Adobe did a very big study. And I say, well, you have like me on their show. That's dangerous. I just keep talking sorry. So last year, and plus you're my friend, you see how rude am everyone I just interrupt him. So last year, Adobe did a big study and they analysed 2 million job postings, and 2 million resumes and they also conducted interviews across almost 20 different industries. And they discovered five important soft skills that almost every single company is looking for, for our students are not developing those important soft skills. So both on the hardest skill and and on the soft skill and they are now learning What matters, then why do that?

Peter Sumpton 22:03

Absolutely. So, couple more comments. Good to see, Christina agrees with you. Work Experience is crucial. And it's really interesting that she comes in and says that simply and you've said it, and I've said it as well, because in nearly every single job interview I've ever been to, or I've been been part of an art, like looking back I cringe like you know, following a formal process looking at CV judging someone on words on a piece of paper or lots of craziness, but every time I went for a step above my, my grade or my position or whatever, one of the things you didn't get the job. One of the things they say is you lacked the experience. It wasn't about qualifications or anything it was your lower which which is which is quite funny. And Ashley Hello, Ashley. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, I think qualifications do help get interview rightly so dependent on what profession you're in, and I'm specifically talking about marketing. And he's got plenty of experience as a marketing manager, eight years but no formal qualifications. He says it might limit his opportunities in the future. So before you come in on that, doctor I, but my take on that is that well, if people are gonna judge you on the fact that you haven't got qualifications, and it's just from your experience, well maybe that isn't who you want to be working for. And if you feel that is going to limit you get qualifications and things you want to be employed for. So like doctor I was saying, Look at what Google are off offering look at HubSpot look at what Google offer just just in general, look at the digital platforms or look at the companies that do internships or that do apprenticeship in marketing management and things like that. If you think that's going to hold you back that that would be my my advice. What do you think?

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 24:00

So great, so great. I know I definitely don't think that's a good company to work for in the long term. Because you know for any marketing company and I hired people who look

amazing on paper, they have all their credentials

They

look amazing you know Harvard or Stanford, but in real life they have no idea how to practice so why do I hire those people? So if you have you know, eight plus years experience to actually I call you know, now I call I learned this somewhere and the show me economy if you can show me how good you are as opposed to my my master degree, this certification, that certification that is part of the Tell me economy, why you are telling me how good you are through all the credentials, but I think we are shifting to the show me economy so that you can actually show me I mean, Ilan musk

tweeted earlier this year,

I don't even care if you graduate from high school. Um, of course, he's like an extreme example. I think slowly people are going to understand That after we hired enough people who have the credentials, but they have no real life experience to back it up, I think people will think twice about this. Most of my friends, I'm not sure about big companies, I think they may still look at that piece of paper, by many of my friends who are small business owners, entrepreneurs, they definitely don't hear they couldn't care less about those certifications. And as Peter mentioned earlier, there are lots of alternative ways for you to earn certifications without going through the very expensive college education.

Peter Sumpton 25:33

So I've I'm a chartered marketer, got my my car qualification, which I'm proud to say, and you know that that's something that that would be on my CV. But for me, that is my foundations to build on. That wouldn't be the thing that I would say, Well, I'm see I'm qualified so I must be able to do the job. So going back to what Ashley was saying, Once again, what I'd suggest is get qualified and whatever you want to but if you've got no experience in marketing overall, look at a Digital Marketing Institute, Chartered Institute of marketing might Ritson mini MBA, any of those types of things just to get that foundational knowledge. If you want to be an expert, like in communications or in product development, then look at the companies that do that, that are known for doing that and look to see what they can offer you. Again, just a little piece of advice that's sort of within the education, but not fully relying on it, because you you just need that experience as well. Everybody says it.

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 26:39

Yeah, I know. It's a kind of another point. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

Peter Sumpton 26:43

of course. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 26:44

Peter will never ask me that.

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 26:48

So I also see this because I frequently just I try to understand the future of education, what is happening, what is emerging. So I think now almost there's another trend. People want to hire authors. Who are not in the field have the position that they are hiring. Why? Because every discipline has this baggage by so my interviewer Duncan Wardle, who is a former VP from Disney, I learned a term which is a river of thinking. So every discipline has their own river of thinking. And if like this is something speaking from experience after I got so many degrees, I was deeply into my own river of thinking. And I don't have any fresh perspective, because I was being conditioned For God's sake, almost two decades, right? receiving education. So I see that as a trend. I saw quite a few job postings, if they are hiring this position, but they are looking for people intentionally have no background in that position. So when they join the team, they bring you a very fresh perspective. They are asking questions that you take for granted. Why because you are in Your own river of thinking for way too long. So keep that in mind. And I think things will change, you know, just talking about the certifications.

Peter Sumpton 28:09

So, long Lance as pipes up again. Thank you very much, Lance. Always a pleasure. I hire people on attitude. So, more so than

Unknown Speaker 28:21

attitude probably. Thank you for that. Yeah, aptitude

Peter Sumpton 28:23

well it is nearly 4am in the morning so

the robot that is lence

Unknown Speaker 28:32

to your life

Peter Sumpton 28:34

so

it's, uh, I want to start to kind of wrap it up now, although I could honestly talk to you for like 347 1012 hours, but you're very busy lady, so I appreciate your time. as short as it has been. I'm looking at all the questions that I wrote and sent to you yesterday, and I think we've covered one it's just great because like, I think I've learned a lot more and got a lot more out of this than the rubbish questions that I wrote. But the one thing that I want to end on or the topic I want to end on is to give some people some practical advice, really, or help them along. And what I want to cover is if somebody wants to learn, is there any websites or I know we've mentioned HubSpot, and Google, but is there anything you would suggest they do? And that's quite a broad question, because it massively depends on what industry but suppose I'm talking, marketing and entrepreneurship and all that kind of stuff.

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 29:38

I think the best way to learn, especially if someone is starting out is to shadow

Unknown Speaker 29:43

others,

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 29:44

to observe all those people who have made it, what are they doing, how they're made it? And you don't even have to spend any money right so I call this being a professional stalker, and my favourite way is just to do a hashtag Try whatever industry you are in, do a hashtag search and through that hashtag search maybe on LinkedIn, I use social media. I so search engine, right? So maybe on LinkedIn, maybe on Facebook, maybe on Twitter, you know, whatever, it doesn't really matter or maybe on YouTube. So once you do that hashtag search, so you can easily identify the movers and shakers in that specific industry and then stock them right so why got started on this trip? I was already in already. I actually created a big Excel spreadsheet. I was documenting all the movers and shakers What are they doing? What are they talking about? I observe them and also after you do the hashtag search, and you will also identify the people who are raising their arms I need to help. I'm struggling with homeschooling. I'm struggling with marketing, and I'm struggling with abcdefg can you actually help me so it is a great way for you to come back To give you idea to see what are people's pain points and that will help you craft your own solution right. So, you first need to understand the market. You also need to build some professional connections with the movers and shakers. So, once you do enough homework and I do believe you cannot start a very successful company without creating your own Juno's solution by and going back to what we discussed earlier, like have your own theory, what is your own solution? Now you understand people's and now you understand the movers and shakers, what are they doing? And you understand people's pain points, what are they struggling with? So can you help them solve their problems by adding something unique, creating your own unique solution, your own unique pathway. If you aren't just a follower and you are not going to become a successful marketer, you are not going to run you Business very successfully, you have to create your own unique solution. I think this part you know, even creating your own pathway is a missing piece in many people's business right you can be a great marketer, but what are your marketing avow to it? So you have to have a very good product, you have to have very good solution. So you can actually market about so you can attract people

Peter Sumpton 32:26

and, and going full circle that comes back to what we were talking about right at the start the four P's. So it's not just like you said, you can be the best communicator in the world. But if your product is terrible, if your distribution links are awful, and the pricing is either way too high, or way too low, then there's no synergy there and it's just going to fall down. So becoming an all rounded marketer is hugely important understanding those terms, and getting involved in it. So I think we can all agree with with Christina on that one.

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 32:56

Christina Yeah, exactly. I think you know why some fall. This is like The 8020 rule, right? And even like live streaming, and so many people come to me, they're like, no, I need my logo. I need the lower third. I need the background. I need the camera. I mean, all of those are important. But what is the most important you want to make sure the content is good. The show is good, you're good host to me, that is 80%. But most people don't even count that 20% you know, going back to you, but you need this entire thing you know, don't miss you know, pick up the seed, but forget the meat. Now, what do they say? Yeah, I forgot.

Peter Sumpton 33:33

I don't know.

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 33:34

Yeah, it's like analogy by you. What I'm trying to say is that you are only focusing on the minor things by you, you miss, you see only the trees, but now the forest. So this means you need the trees, but also you need to see the forest. You need all those things. Yeah.

Peter Sumpton 33:51

Love it. So just want to I was supposed to end on that. But there's a couple of comments there about ci m qualifications coming in and Ashley enrolled but didn't finish it. And Christina is looking to do a CME course. happy to chat that through with with either of you if you're still interested in, in stuff like that. But the name hasn't come up here, unfortunately. So I'm not quite sure why. But he was saying the agree about work experience, but there's some cases where you've got relevant work experience, but they still reject you. And I'm guessing that's their personal experience. saying you don't have the relevant experience. What's your take on that? So for me, before you you summarise first doctor, if you will, for me, from that point of view, it's if we're one, you might not have had the right experience for what they're looking for. And that fits perfectly from what we were talking about in terms of or what Dr. I said in that you you need to have that experience to say, Well, I can do that for you. I can do not will I know how to do that, but I haven't actually done it. So go and find that experience. But Plus, if you went for that role then and you haven't got the experience they wanted Maybe it just wasn't right for you. So I've, again the experience they were looking for and go back and say, You were wrong, you should have employed me Look how great I am. Or it might not have been right for you in the first place. But I mean, that's my take in terms of the context that we've got for that. What do you think?

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 35:16

I totally agree. And also, I don't know if they reject you based on your resume. So if that is the case, so maybe you also want to identify the keyword that you are using on your resume, because I know oftentimes, they just use a machine to scan the keyword fly. So maybe they're looking for specific keywords like or like, you know, I'm just giving you some random example like I see all paid chatbot paid ad. So what are the specific keywords that are looking for? So maybe you research more about the position and see if you can customise your resume a little bit to reflect and under the condition that you do have the experience to reflect exactly what they are looking for? For You know, like matchmaking and change your resume a little bit. See? Yeah,

Peter Sumpton 36:05

absolutely great piece of advice. And I think we'll end it there. Doctor I thank you so so much for joining me absolute pleasure as always covered some amazing topics there and I think you gave some super value.

Dr. Ai Addyson-Zhang 36:19

Oh, I'm so owner. I'm so excited and excited and I can't wait to watch your other many more episodes that you're going to host. So thank you so much for having me, Peter. I can just like chat about this with you forever.

Peter Sumpton 36:33

I know Same here. Yeah, but I think let's finish it. It's Friday. Good feeling lots of things about what to take away. So let's Yeah, let's leave on a positive. Hi. And again, thank you for joining me and I will speak to you all later. Oh, and also thank you very much for everybody that commented and watched for this 36 minutes. I know you watch your doctor I but in all fairness, I only invited her on so I could listen to her as well. So you That's how I'm doing these little chats but thanks for joining me. Thank you so, so much for listening and staying with me till the end not many people do on podcasts. If you want to chat a bit more marketing, feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn. email me at Peter Sumpton at marketing study lab coat at UK or join our Facebook group growing and thriving. Just search for marketing study lab on Facebook. Happy marketing

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