Manage episode 210870501 series 2372270
This episode is all about writing and creating content using your customer s own language. My next guest, Jeffrey Shaw (@JeffreyShaw1 ), talks to me about how to help businesses stand out, attract their ideal customers, and create brand loyalty that supersedes price. His latest book, LINGO, helps business owners and entrepreneurs understand their ideal customer on a deeper level to increase engagement and profits.
Scott: Who is this book for? Is it for the solo-preneur or is it for the entrepreneur or is it for marketers, sales people? Who is it for?
Jeffrey: I tend to refer to it as being for the uncommon entrepreneur. Meaning those of us that are out there doing something out of the ordinary. What I often say that one connective tissue and all the different industries that I coach people from is that we’re likely to be in an industry for which there’s no formal business training. So, there’s a lot of skills so we can learn a lot skill sets or technology but no one ever teaches that tries to make money on this thing. So this book is sort of geared towards that. Which I also can say it’s really for people that are in relational and not transactional businesses. Because to speak someone’s Lingo, to speak their secret language is that relational building strategy as opposed to transactional business and that would fall under–Yeah, for me I primarily think entrepreneurs. My podcast is the same way like creative warriors. We really gear to it being a show for people, you know, probably five or fewer people in the company, many of them solo entrepreneurs. The interesting thing is, which I guess have been a little surprise for me is that I’m followed a lot by marketers and that’s been interesting to me because it’s a little intimidating. I don’t consider myself a trained or professional marketer. I’m just an incredibly well experienced marketer. I’ve been in business for so long and I was out there as a photographer selling one of the most challenging things you can sell. I think I have a level of expertise as a marketer but I never set out to attract marketers because I was intimidated by their education and experience and having a right to claim themselves to be a marketer. Oddly enough, they get that what I have to say is interesting. So I have a huge following amongst marketers.
Scott: Why would a marketer be intimidating, right? I’m a marketing guy but like you, not by training but by practice, right? I was a sales guy and this like they said, hey, you’re really good at opening conversations and writing and doing all the stuff that we think a marketing person should do. Would you mind doing that? So I said, okay, sure. So why do you think marketers are intimidating?
Jeffrey: Not so much that they for who they are as a person. I’m an entrepreneur through and through. I’ve been an entrepreneur my whole life and, you know, I mean, my whole life like from being a young teenager fourteen year old selling eggs door to door and never really gotten a paycheck and I also didn’t go to college. It wasn’t really an option in my childhood. So I get intimidated by the idea that people are smarter, more educated, or have a degree that I don’t have and I sometimes forget. You have this wealth of experience of having been an entrepreneur and what makes my work unique is because I was that lower middle class kid ending up serving the wealthiest people in the country. That took a unique marketing mindset and that’s what Lingo is all about. So when I say, yes, that’s not who they are as.. as nice kind people or their profession, it’s, oh my gosh, they’re formally trained and I’m not. Do I have a right? But I said I just have to remind myself that, yeah, I absolutely have a right to because my journey has been unique and that’s how I think I can help people.
Scott: It s interesting that you said that because marketers are trained yet maybe they’re trained in like the secret language in the Lingo and that is what your book is about. It s actually how to get into an area or a circle that you maybe don’t belong yet but you’re trying to drag yourself in and that’s what Lingo is.
Jeffrey: I actually think that often what we’re trained in, sometimes keeps us on the surface of things and I actually my hope is that Lingo is a deeper version of what marketers may have thought about doing up to this point. You know, it maybe, not all, but some marketers and as a profession and even for entrepreneurs they may have been really concentrating on the buyer personas, the avatars, the demographics and the stats and that’s actually my dream is–is that we realize that, I believe, consumers of the future are going to demand more in-depth understanding of who they are in order to gain–for us to gain their business that I think sometimes when we’re highly trained in something you take that what I’m saying.. I’m a trained photographer but being good at managing the camera and being trained in the technique of photography is not why I have had a super successful business. It was because of the humanity and the connection I created. So, I think sometimes formal training in something actually can become a little bit of a barrier. So that’s what my hope here is that with this actually conversation Lingo opens up an opportunity for marketers to even think in more depth.
Scott: Yeah. I totally agree. I’m thinking when you talked about the technical aspects of photography, back in the old days when you had dials and knobs, aperture and speed and light and like all of these and focus and depth and all those things that photography have had to offer for an experienced professional. A marketing person understands all these marketing automation tools as well but there’s all types of tools. If you’re not telling the right story and if you’re not dragging your user in your demographic, you’re missing half of the picture. I think you kind of stumbled into that with photography and then figured out how to sell a luxurious product and I think you actually did bridge the gap.
Jeffrey: Well, you’re raising a great point. It’s like you go to any art school. You go to a photography and you learn about composition but it’s often the most compelling thing is you create or when you break the rules of composition. Right? So, any time we re formally trained in something, we’d get the structure we need and as a marketer you may gain and great knowledge about layout and impact and how to. But it’s actually when you think outside of that box, when you break that mold and you actually create your most compelling art. We see the same brands every day. It’s the brands that we know. Geico I think is an interesting example. It s almost if you follow it they almost break all the rules. It’s crazy how many different styles of ads they are running. It used to be the caveman. Then it was the little lizard. Then like the Loch Ness monster coming out of a pond of a golf course. The squealing pig. There’s almost no unification to their branding, but then why does it work?
Scott: That’s interesting. I haven’t thought of Geico as an example but it does work, right? Or, maybe you’re crossing over different demographics, maybe whatever you’re watching or reading, maybe they have missed targeted you. Or, you see more because I don’t think I’ve seen the Loch Ness monster thing. I forgot about the caveman. I remember the gecko.
Jeffrey: The caveman was a long time ago but that was one of the original concepts. They break all the rules. Well, not all the rules, but they certainly break some rules of marketing as far as continuity and consistency and brand identity. There s a campaign going now. I’m trying to think of what it is but, you know, the first few times I saw the ad I didn’t realize it was even Geico. So they’re breaking a lot of commonly held ideas around marketing and yet it’s working because they’re breaking the rules in a way and yet there is. I’ve looked at them enough to figure what’s going on here. There is a common denominator and it is that you can get cheaper insurance in fifteen minutes. You can save fifteen percent in fifteen minutes. So there is In every case, there is an easy component that ultimately comes forward in the commercial. But from an identification perspective, they’re all over the place and yet it works.
Scott: Maybe they are more advanced? Maybe formally marketed or formally trained marketers like we were talking about earlier are beyond the four Ps. The promotion and the price and the product and all that and these guys have evolved with the way we consume media, right? So, ever since we got Facebook and the smartphone, marketers do know more about us. They know our location, you know, for one because we’re on the phone and we’re emitting that information and you can grab that and maybe Geico maybe they’re just more in tune with the technology and plus they buy a lot of media, right? They spend like a billion dollars on ads. They’re everywhere.
Jeffrey: And yet, I think this is what separates us in our industries. There are a lot of insurance companies out there selling ads, buying ads and selling to us, State Farm. This is progressive. I refer to it in Lingo as, owning your space. Geico has a space that they own and which we expect them to present their products and services under. State Farm has a very different space, right? State Farm space is much more traditional insurance. We re over there when you need us, very stable. That’s their insurance space. So there’s a lot of progressive–which I don’t think works as well–that does trying the whole Flo, you know, Flo the character and they’re trying a humor, trying to get to you through humor but it’s not. I don’t know. I just don’t find it as they’re almost too close to Geico, right? Geico is all humor–Progressive is just kind of playing to the left of it and so therefore it’s not strong enough. But if you put Geico and State Farm, side by side, they are competitors. But, look how worlds apart they are in their style and they re attracting. Which is the whole point of Lingo, they’re attracting, very different customers, people with different values, different mindsets, different attitudes.
Scott: I think it was last night I was sitting around the dinner table and talking to the kids about who knows what and progressive came up. I said, oh, yeah, we’re a Progressive customer and the look of disappointment on my fourteen year old daughter’s face was like. I didn’t really think of it then, but now, talking to you, and talking about the different insurance companies that there was this look of disappointment. Maybe here expectation was that we should be a customer of something else because she identifies with it better.
Jeffrey: Yeah, but that can’t you be, you know, why aren’t you a customer of something cooler, right? That’s probably what, you know, a fourteen year old’s thinking about and the perfect example of this I think is it’s just look at a couple like Sears. Can anybody say what Sears stands for anymore? I don t think so.
Scott: To me it stands for my grandparents.
Jeffrey: Exactly. It’s just so you just don’t need to say about it. I mean, the closest is they kind of stand for appliances, right? There’s still a pretty good resource for appliances but that’s the problem. J.C. Penney, too. The companies that we see in our world that were at one-time thriving and really stagnant now. You can kind of look at them and say the problem is they don’t own a space. No one can clearly identify what Sears represents. They were vanilla in a world that needs pistachio and they were just like laying there flat and stand for nothing. I mean, I guess that’s where you run in and buy Hanes underwear. I don’t know what you do at Sears. I don’t know that a lot of people do which why you’re not compelled and drawn to go in there.
Scott: Yeah, there’s not even Sears near me anymore because they all closed. I do remember the last time I went into a Sears. It was about six or seven years ago maybe and we were shopping for something like an appliance. Some big, hard, good like that. We walked in. It just felt weird and we just left. My wife and I we just left because it felt weird and I think we went to some specialty store. You go into the specialty store because we knew we were shopping for and they understood maybe our Lingo, right? So, so we kind of stepped into a situation that made us more comfortable. The sales person was more knowledgeable and we bought something there, right? Maybe they don’t really know where their space is anymore because they got so diluted and you saw Amazon and Wal-Mart kind of take over and those guys are just dead. You know, same with J.C. Penney. I can’t tell you even why you go there. I saw J.C. Penney ads over the holidays and I was surprised that they were even advertising. Who goes in there?
Jeffrey: Look what happened a few years ago when they decided the CEO had the bright idea to no longer have sales. They were just going to make their pricing, everyday pricing with no more sales. Well, that killed them. Because they took away, they talked about not understanding the Lingo, their ideal customer. Gap did this, by the way, when I talk about the same Lingo a lot of people realize that several years ago, I think it was 2010. The Gap tried changing the logo.
They just wanted to change the look of the logo. It’s still going to be called The Gap and it was the same color scheme. This is for rearranging elements and it lasted for a week because when they put it out there their social media following went nuts. Right, because they didn’t want the change. So, these brands occasionally, usually brands that had been around for a while they lose their identity and they lose — in JCPenney when they abolished the sales, they made a disconnect to the language of their ideal customer who likes the thrill of getting something on sale. But they know that those other times that might be more expensive but if you take away that game that right they took away the game of occasion of the only reason why you’d want to go there and they’ve never really recovered from it. So, you talk about Sears, like to me, I love that you said you felt weird going into Sears. There’s no one talking like you walk into a Sears and I do not mean just in its literal sense although there was kind of a required hum to the Sears like they really literally almost as isn’t anybody talking but there’s nothing about that store that’s stands out that you feel like there’s any conversation going on. The reason you were drawn into that specialty store is, likely not only because they knew your secret language but that you’ve walked in there because you’ve recognized them as speaking your language which is what drew you in on the first place and this is all part of the 5-steps, the 5-strategy steps that I explained in building this language strategy. The second step is familiarity, right? We’re drawn to what’s familiar to us because hey, it’s already speaking your language. So I would say you’re probably drawn into that store in the first place and then found what you needed because, “Hey, here’s a place speaking my language.”
Scott: So yes, you talk about the secret language in Lingo in the five steps and that was the second one. What do you describe in Lingo that are the other steps?
Jeffrey: Sure. So to backtrack to the first step is to understand the perspective of your ideal customer. So you could see this even a step prior to that which is knowing who your ideal customer is, which, Scott, honestly was a surprised to me. I actually wrote the entire book and started doing podcast interviews and which repeatedly getting asked by people saying, “Well, how do we know who our ideal customer is?”
Honestly, Scott, I thought people knew that. I’m like, “But you’re already in business how do you not know who your ideal customers and you’re already in business or on podcast? I felt I was speaking to entrepreneurial podcast who the audience–they are entrepreneurs. It’s like, “Why is the host asking me that, do we even know?” We actually went back and wrote a chapter on defining your ideal customer before I could lay out the 5-step strategy, the first step is perspective. You cannot build a business and this is the downfall — I don’t know if I say downfall — but this is the challenge I think most businesses set for themselves right at the beginning. Businesses are built backwards. Particularly entrepreneurial ventures because what happens is people have a great idea that they want to build a business. They build a business and then they spend who knows how many years running around trying to fit people into that business, what we call customers.
They’re literally trying to market a pole in like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, where the right way to be, if you want to make your life easier then decide who you are meant to serve, what your skill set, to find your ideal customer, where does your skill set best serve? What are your innate qualities? What do you have to bring to the table? So then you know who your ideal — that’s the title of the chapter on defining your ideal customer. By the way is called ‘Who would love that?” Because that’s the bottom line. It’s like, “All right, this is who I am. This is what I’m good at. This what I have to offer, who would love that? That’s who your ideal customers. Once you know that then, “Okay what’s their perspective? How do they look at the world? What are their values? Are they innately pessimistic or they innately optimistic or how did they look at the world? When they go shopping currently, what is it look like? When they go online, where are they going? What’s their traffic pattern now? You have to understand that before you can do anything else so that you end up with the business that you build for the people you want to serve so step number one is understanding their perspective. Step number two, as I said a moment ago, familiarity which I think it’s insanely powerful and yet overlooked, right? Because we always want to be innovative and innovation’s great. I’m not saying by familiarity that what we do or what we build on our websites and then we don’t want it to look like anybody else or other brands but you’re doing yourself a huge disservice if you don’t understand what feels familiar to your ideal customer because that feeling of familiarity that people that we as humans feel, it creates comfort and lets us know we’re in the right place. To overlook the power that is a huge gap, right? So you don’t want to copy but if you understand the perspective of your ideal customer and what like, your experience, you and your wife’s experience in a store like that feeling of what’s familiar and what’s not familiar is tremendously powerful to let people know, “Hey this is, I’m in the right place. This is somebody I want to do business with. This is a business where I belong.” So it’s powerful.
Scott: Yes, everyone has examples where you walk in to some place and it just doesn’t feel right.
Jeffrey: That’s me in Home Depot. Like I break out in a sweat in Home Depot. Nothing wrong with it, it’s just not a brand for me. It’s just things are going to fall in my head.
Scott: So you like Lowe’s better, right? Because Lowe’s tailors more to the consumer where Home Depot tailors more to the construction or trade professional.
Jeffrey: I’m a service-oriented guy. I like a lot of help. I don’t like to figure things out on my own. I’m always amused by IKEA which actually I can really enjoy the IKEA experience of unfolded prop for and I talked about them and Lingo as well. Like in so many ways is such a brilliant business model but I referred to it in the book as absolutely sadistic. Like who came up with this business model? Like it’s fascinating and that’s why it works but think about IKEA like there’s nothing easy about that experience, right? You follow a set path through entire store and if it’s a big IKEA it’s like floors and you’re following the arrows and then you had to go pick out your own merchandise. One of the example I give in the book is understanding whether your customer, your ideal customer, are they time-conscious or cost-conscious. Now, IKEA is not appealing to the time-conscious customer and I actually don’t think they’re — I mean they are very cost-conscious like the prices are great. I think the language that IKEA is speaking is the satisfaction of the do-it-yourselfer, right? People that really enjoy the IKEA experience take a great deal of satisfaction in making it through the maze of the store, pulling things off their shelf, managing to somehow get all those components in your compact car — which is always like people strap on the roof–and getting it home, building it. Nothing about this is saving time but you stand back with your hands on your hips and you’re like, “Damn, I did that.”
Scott: Yes I think my most recent IKEA example was just after the holidays. My daughter wanted a desk and so we said, “Okay we’ll go to IKEA and get one.” There wasn’t even a discussion of other stores. We are going to go there and get one. Navigating through the aisles I tend to wander around. My wife hates it and she never can find me in the store. I’m just wandering around looking at stuff. Then, they find a desk that they like. Yes, we’re going to go pick it up and my daughter’s about to pull the wrong color because the item numbers are the same but there’s just a little circle with the color on it.”Whoa, whoa, whoa — I said, — that’s a brown one you wanted the white one.” It’s in another bin. Then taking it home and assembling I showed her the manual. I said, “Okay I want you to see how far you can get with this.” I said, “Show me how many languages are on this manual, right? There’s no languages at all on the manuals, just pictures and I said, “Because it’s global business they don’t want to translate all the stuff so they just do pictures, right? Lego is the same way. She just couldn’t get through the manual so I helped her through it. When I was unpacking the box, I was amazed at how much little extra material there was in the box. I mean it goes all the way down to the packaging. The overall process like you said. It’s either time or cost-conscious. Me driving to IKEA which is like 20 miles away from my house to having the finished product was over a day, right? Because I didn’t even finish assembling the thing on the first day and we had to stop and have lunch there where I had to buy this Swedish fish, right? All that stuff and I mean they do kind of suck you in but the whole experience there and watching everybody else do the same thing is really, really interesting but it’s a hugely successful business.
Scott: Yet it’s not that innovative, right? I mean they just have a bunch of stuff for your home. I guess that is their, the do-it-yourselfer is kind of their tribe.
Jeffrey: Yes but I say, exactly, that’s what I mean by Lingo. It’s like that’s the language they’re speaking. I will tell you the only I have ever been in IKEA is because I’ve been in a relationship with someone who was a do-it-yourselfer. I, on my own, I’m not in any way, shape or form an IKEA customer. I will go there to buy, I don’t know, sheets, maybe drapes or something that’s pre-made. I’m not a builder guy. I’m not a build-it-yourself-guy so they’re not speaking my language so that’s the last store I would think of. If I wanted a desk that’s the last store I would think of.
I’m going to go to a furniture store, right and that’s the point of Lingo. It’s like it’s understanding your language and creating that alignment between your ideal customer. I’m really not — like so I’ve been on it and experienced it and it’s always been because I’ve been in a relationship with someone who enjoyed that experience. So I’m a willing participant but on my own: absolutely no interest in that. I’m more of a, “Let me go to a furniture store and I’ll pay more, right? Because I’m not going to be as cost-conscious but I’m more time-conscious and I don’t really gain — first of all, I know that the IKEA building experience is not going to give me the feeling of satisfaction and personal achievement that others might get because I’m going to completely fail at it and I know that. I’m not good. I’m going to be so frustrated. I’m going to put wrong pieces together so it’s actually going to be a humiliating experience for me so I don’t do it. I’d rather pay more and go to a store and buy a desk.
Scott: Yes and then I mean it goes back to your third step, right ? Which is about style, right? So your style is different than mine because I shop at IKEA and you don’t.
Jeffrey: Yes, style and style is the decision maker. That’s how I refer to it because we were a short attention span society. We make decisions everyday based on what? It’s often on style. When style is everything, it could be the style of your branding. They just like the choice of your font. It’s how your website feels. It’s how your storefront feels. A comparison scenario I offer in Lingo is a — which is an experience I do know — if you go to a T.J. Maxx or you go to a store that carries a variety of designers, you’re shopping by size. So I’ll go up the shirt rack with all the mediums and within that section of mediums you’ll have a variety of designers and as you flip through the hangers what makes you stop on one versus another? You bypass 90% of them but something will make you stop. What makes you stop is because, “Hey, that style is me. That style resonates for me.” That is exactly what makes people stop on your website. If you are a really — like I feel the same way about when I book trips online for hotels like, I like a contemporary style, warm but contemporary. I’ve flipped through all the website go right passed all the ones with big grand chandeliers.
So I have my one excursion like that every now and then but overall that doesn’t appeal to me. I don’t like grandeur, big chandeliers, big force. I like warm contemporary straight line so as we flip through things in our life whether there it’s walking down main street, walk down a mall, flipping through websites, we are instantly making decisions about what brands and businesses resonate for us on the style of whether that style speaking on our behalf. I think it’s a really important component that is often overlooked in a very detailed one. This is where pay attention to the font that you choose. Is it conveying the style that your ideal customer resonates with or not? Because often what we buy as brands and who we choose to do business with is really an extension of our own voice. The clothes we put on our body along with the book, there was a course called the Lingo Course and we’re talking about style in last week’s call and I gave everyone an assignment which was for the next week: Pay close attention to the message you’re sending based on how you chose to dress that day and as you go about life over the next week, pay attention to how often you make a decision based on style because really the style that resonates for us, really, I said, it’s kind of an extension of what we already want to say about us.
Scott: Yes and that’s interesting. I do that all the time and speaking of fonts. If I had to pick a font, oh, that will drive me crazy. I don’t know, All I know serif and sans serif, that’s about it and so just pick one and go. But the style–it kind of goes back into what we’ve been talking about the whole time is you’re manufacturing a style based on your ideal customer and if you don’t know your ideal customer, you can’t really manufacturer a style that they’re going to like.
Jeffrey: Absolutely. You’re going to miss it.
Scott: Yes, so, you’re going to miss. But then how do we figure out how much the style is worth to them, right? Because you go on in your book and you’re talking about pricing in words but like how do you figure out the price. Is there a tolerance so do you try to move them up move them down? I know you talked a lot about the whole $99 trick which is just a dollar short of a hundred but that’s a big deal, right? Because $100 looks way bigger than 99 cents or $99 and in I don’t know who –how many years ago — figured that out but it’s true–
Jeffrey: If you want to–
Scott: –and then Walmart moved to 97, right?
Jeffrey: Yes, if you want the customer that’s going to be conscious like that needs to be conscious of that, right? One of the things that drives me crazy is how often I work with entrepreneurs who complained that their customers are nickel-and-diming them but then I look at their pricing structure it’s a completely nickel and dime price structure, right?
So if you’re going to — if you’re going to bring a high level of consciousness to the price by — as Walmart does — pricing your merchandise, your services to the 100th of the cent by making the whole transaction expire running entire ad campaigns about rollback pricing you’re going to bring high-level consciousness to your pricing then you can’t complain that you have people that pay a lot of attention to the price. That’s actually who you’ve called forward. You’re speaking that language or speaking the price conscious language. It s why if you look at high-end brands it’s all extremely vague.
You go to a restaurant, a super high-end restaurant there aren’t even prices. Or, stores that I studied to build my photography business like Ralph Lauren’s flagship store in New York City, Bergdorf Goodman. The brands that I studied that were high-end for what I wanted to kind of emulate because I wanted to speak to who they’re speaking to. I want to understand what their language was because I didn’t know it. I grow up lower-middle class so I had to understand what is the language of affluence. When I found it from a comprising structure is that it’s very vague. Everything is rounded off. Nothing’s rounded off to the 100th of a cent or even as $500 or as $5,000. It’s 250. There’s vagueness and so vague that — and I talk about this in Lingo that it’s not just, it’s also the visual, right?
Even putting a dollar sign in your prices is bringing consciousness to the fact that you’re talking about money as opposed to something cost 250 like at my price list. As a photographer, if a portrait is $1,000, it’s just going to be a 1,000, no decimal point, no dollar sign, right? So I’m taking a consciousness off of that dollar sign even visually because I want to speak the language of very vagueness about money because I’m dealing with people. I want to speak the language of people who don’t need to care that much.
Scott: That’s interesting how you just, I mean you’re basically anchoring them not on the dollar, right?
Jeffrey: Right and it’s your choice. This is what I say in the book. I’ll tell you that pricing creates perception. So, the first thing, one of the thing I do with my coaching clients when we come home we get down to the nitty-gritty of working out the pricing. The first that I make them do is to decide, make a list, describe three to five words of the perception you want people to have about your business based on your price.
What is the perception you want? Is it affordability? Is it high quality? Like what’s the perception you decide on the perception first. Then, decide what price. Does it need to go get that perception? I give you, Scott, a direct example. When I return at 20 years old to my hometown to start my photography business, I struggled and failed for the first three years. Then realized that I was on a luxury product that I needed to speak the language of affluent people so I completely reinvented and rebranded myself after having studied these high end brands and developed a new business as a photographer two hours away from a current location of my hometown. There was a short period of time of a couple months there where I still have a foot in both markets.
So I was, on one town I’m selling an 8 X 10 for $48.02, which is already crazy number and I explained that in the book. I learned the formula how to price things so I follow it verbatim so already in my hometown I’m telling my community I’m a high end photographer but selling it for $48.02 which is low-end pricing. Whereas the new market I was opening up as a photographer I was selling that same 8 by 10 for $300.
Now, there were slight modifications. One is a better mounting board but nothing that I did added up to a lot of dollars to create a greater impact but here’s what made the difference. It was all about perception. I would not have been perceived as the high quality photographer producing the best work for the most sophisticated people if I charged too little. I actually had more pressure on myself to make sure I charged enough to create the perception that aligned with the people I was going to serve. So you actually get to this, people feel powerless by pricing. They feel like they’re going to lose customers by pricing. The reality is you get to decide what perception you want your ideal customer to have. What market? Where you want to be positioned in the market and then establish your pricing.
Scott: Yes, I totally agree and I love the $48.02 because then when you negotiate two cents off then you feel like you’ve won.
Jeffrey: I was one of those people complained like, “Why are my customers not willing to pay? Why are they nickel-and-diming me?” Well, I’m charging two extra cents. Like it was so ridiculous but at 20 years old, I couldn’t see it.
Scott: Yes. Yes. So you mentioned a lot about the book, where can we grab the book? Obviously, online or where do we get that?
Scott: Then if anybody had a question for you, Jeffrey, based on anything that they heard today, what is your preferred contact method, social media, email, what do you like?
Jeffrey: Yes, actually what I like is to give — again because my whole thing is about speaking people’s language. I like to make sure people have the opportunity to get to know me better and my work before we even begin to form a relationship so I actually like to give something away. So we created for your listeners the Lingo Media Kit which they can get at jeffreyshaw.com/scottking. It s pretty simple to remember. In and in that Lingo Media Kit is actually an infographic of a visual of the 5-Steps of Developing the Secret Language Strategy. There is also a free chapter on perspective which is not the first chapter by the way. It’s, I think, the third chapter, first chapter is just too easy. I want to give away the one that is most important and this is the most important chapter on the book and the there’s an audio version of the free chapter as well which have has sound effects and all that. So the whole entire Lingo Media Kit is available at jeffreyshaw.com/scottking.
Scott: Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Jeffrey. I really appreciate you spending time with me today and teaching my audience about pricing.
Jeffrey: Awesome. Pleased to be here. Thank you so much, Scott.