The AmWritingFantasy Podcast: Episode 6 – Setting up an email list to sell more books

The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast

In this video we discuss why an email list is important for your authors business. Why also talk about which email service providers are available for you, the pros and cons of each, and how you should get started.

The different email service providers covered are:

MailChimp: https://mailchimp.com/
ConvertKit: https://convertkit.com/
MailerLite: https://www.mailerlite.com/
Active Campaign: https://www.activecampaign.com/
Infusionsoft have changed their name to Keap: https://keap.com/
StoryOrigin: https://storyoriginapp.com/

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Blog and Courses: https://www.amwritingfantasy.com/
Jesper on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SchmidtJesper
Autumn on Twitter: https://twitter.com/weifarer

Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Jesper (12s):
All right. So, uh, we are doing a double recording today, so to speak. Uh, because now that we changed the channel and am we are both, uh, Autumn and I are running it. We also have the possibility to actually have some videos in between. We'd probably do this like once a month. Oh, we're both of us are actually on, on the video and we will do some, uh, am covering some topics that they will discuss to for the year. Am make it very beneficial for you. And today we decided, decided to talk about email is uh, email lists, uh, very important.

Jesper (44s):
And um, and we want to cover the basics of it today. Uh, in two weeks from now we will do another session where we'll talk about how to grow your email list, but today we want to focus a bit more on, okay, why is it important? And also if you want to S if you're starting out and they're going to set up an email list, what sort of service providers exist and who should you use blog good and bad about each one of them and so forth. So that's sort of what we want to cover today, isn't that right? Autumn okay.

Autumn (1m 15s):
Yes, that's definitely where we want to start with is just the basics of even like what an email list is and that what's out there, why you even should be worrying about this.

Jesper (1m 25s):
Yeah, indeed. Indeed. And before we get going, I have to remember also to, uh, to just mention at the, we've got a Mark Jones, uh, I need to do a shout out to me because he's one of our supporters on Patreon, which we are very happy about. And uh, of course have you gotten S so would like to check out Patrick on the links in the description field below. But I just want to show you some of the other awesome stuff we have available. You can get, Oh look at this T shirt. This is pretty cool. I fill up the paper for you.

Autumn (1m 55s):
Look at that.

Jesper (1m 57s):
Cool. So, uh, yeah, that's just some of the stuff that you can get your hands on if you, if you go to pattern. So, well we just, I went to mention so that in case you want to check that app but okay. Email lists. Um, so maybe the just started completely basic here. So what is an email list? Just do you wanna take that?

Autumn (2m 20s):
Yeah, that's so it's like when you just

Jesper (2m 22s):
yep.

Autumn (2m 23s):
Yeah. Well your friends right? Uh, we need to aim higher than that. So email. Yes. And you managed to get a list of emails asleep of people who are interested in your writing and your books and there are so many different ways of keeping those. I mean the most basic is literally having a list of people that you can copy writing to your email or even friends on Facebook. Technically you know you can go if you have a whole bunch of readers who follow you on Facebook you can estimate such though.

Autumn (2m 56s):
So those are technically an email list but its basic level. It is a whole bunch of people ill who are interested in your writing and so they're the people you want to tell when you have a new book released or things like that. Things like you want to spread the world worried about but what you're up to.

Jesper (3m 13s):
Yeah. Um, I dunno, maybe I'm actually getting into a bit of wide email list this important as well here, but, but the thing is when you have readers who, uh, who have read your books already and then you are releasing a new book, obviously you, what would like those why I should know about it. And then the main mill is of course, one of the mechanisms whereby you can make sure that they are a way of it. Uh, obviously I guess one could argue, well, doesn't Amazon send out a notice of people?

Jesper (3m 45s):
Well, when I release a new book and yeah, they do sometimes. Uh, but it's none of your control. And that's the difference here. You cannot control what Amazon center don't send me. It could also be that am Amazon chances, their policy all of a sudden say, well, no, we're not going to, I sent those emails unless something, I don't know. Oh bless you. Sold a certain volume or whatever. Who knows? Uh, you don't know what Amazon is going to do tomorrow. So having the email list in your control means that you control when you communicate and what you communicate.

Jesper (4m 17s):
And that's really the power of it.

Autumn (4m 21s):
I agree. And there's the, especially if you're wider than Amazon, then why how do your readers and Barnes and noble know that you're publishing something or BookBub does have a way of notifying if you're releasing a new book. But again, it's autumn awesome the author to go and make sure that we tell them. And so it's all these steps and when you're in the chaos of releasing a book sometimes, and it's hard to remember, Oh, did I go to BookBub? Did I let these people know? Did I people here? Okay, what's your email? Countless. It's one place, easy to let go. You know, you, you can say what you want to do.

Autumn (4m 53s):
You say to the people, you could formulate how you want to say things. You can, if you decide to offer a coupon or exclusive deal, Hey, there's going to be a 12 up or blog sale, you can let your email list. No. And it's information that you can't send out through Amazon or you know, tomorrow with Facebook crashes and burns. You know, it's not something that you have to worry about it because you have those lists, you know, these people are waiting to hear from you. That is it. I'm incredibly powerful reason of why you would like to have an email list that's in your control instead of, I guess respect said it.

Autumn (5m 28s):
Sort of waiting for Amazon to do it for you. It helping do it at the right time and when you, okay, say what you want them to say for all, you know, it helps just to be how that emails saying, Hey, you are a fan of this other series or comparing it to something else, way to set it up so that the audience goes, Oh right, I did love your book. Now I remember, yes, I want the new one instead of getting an email from Amazon that they might not even open and they're just going to believe.

Jesper (5m 55s):
Yeah. And indeed, and, and I, I think, let's say adding onto that, uh, one of the things that, yeah, having an email list allows you to do is that you can, I actually built a relationship with these people. So, um, of course we got to come back to how to grow the email list and all that. A in in two weeks time. But, but the fact that you can communicate with people S you know, and you should really be you writing emails. Who to are these people on the list, SFU or writing to a friend. It should not be like a formal Amazon announcement kind of email, you know, eh, but, right, right.

Jesper (6m 30s):
As if you're communicating with your friends and, and what happens is that you actually start building relationship. I get emails all the time from, from people on the list who are telling me all kinds of stuff from them, no private life. And I love it. It's amazing. You know, that sort of stuff you will never get. Um, and even then, even, and if you could get ahold of information on who was actually buying your books on Amazon woods, of course Amazon will never ever information with you. But even if you could, um, you don't have that possibility to build relationships with a cluster.

Jesper (7m 1s):
So more of an online platform like you can when they're active be on your email list. So I think that's incredibly important.

Autumn (7m 10s):
But rivers are overwhelmed with email agenda. I don't think that Ellie Mae all of these stage that important. That's true. Old grumpy, our little, I'm glad you've decided to drop in and voice your concerns are a little resident AI co-host that you are. Yeah, there are a lot of emails out there and I guess that is a challenge, but that's why you build this relationship with the readers. They're interested in your books. They're looking forward to the next book and it's why do you want to start talking to them about how work is going?

Autumn (7m 42s):
Yeah, no problem. Well, we'll talk more about like what you put in those emails eventually, but these are people who are signing up to hear from you. You know, and therefore they're going to want to stay in touch. It's just like having a pen pal. You kind of look forward to them every single month.

Jesper (7m 57s):
The other part of it is also that, you know, when people buy something w we all as human beings, we buy from people that we like and trust that. I mean obviously if you, if, if you just heard about a new, uh, what do I know Brandon Sanderson book coming out, people will flock to it and they will buy it for sure because, uh, he has his name. Uh, he settled into life. Yeah. And people will buy his books, but uh, unless you're some superstar like that or Stephen King or whatever, then am people won't just buy your books just because you released them.

Jesper (8m 34s):
Like those superstar stars have that benefit that the rest of, so the stone, uh, so instead of people will do is that they liked somebody. If they trust somebody, then they will buy that product of that person. And in our case, as authors, that's again where the am email list will help in selling. Because plus as you built this relationship with people, we just talked how you should email them as if they were your friends and, and autumn just mentioned to her, okay, a pen pal, uh, there, you know, if that's sort of the method methodology, you're using them over time people will start to so like, and trust you and then there will also buy from you.

Jesper (9m 12s):
Obviously not everybody will, uh, of course, but they will unsubscribe. So we don't care about them anyway. Uh, but those who stay will, we'll stay because they want to hear from. Yeah. And then it will also over time start buying stock buying books. But I think probably autumn I think it's probably fair if we also make it clear that it's not like, because you started an email list today then in four or five, six months when you release a book, do you have on a, an, uh, thousands and thousands of dollars? Do you know that that's not how it works? I laid, it takes time.

Jesper (9m 42s):
You know, it's just like building relationships in real life. It just doesn't happen out of the blue. It takes time. One read out of time, one guy on or a woman on the list at a time and then they'll stop getting your emails. And, um, I dunno, should we maybe mention the big mistake of not putting up up an auto responder series here? Would that make sense? Yes. Yeah. Because basically once they get on, on your list, um, and then because that eases us into talking about what sort of, so providers, it's available for you, but these different service providers that we can come, uh, onto in a second.

Jesper (10m 20s):
Um, they allow you to set up autoresponders and basically in principle what an autoresponder is, is that, um, you can say it awesome all saying, okay, so if you sign up for my list today and to borrow this particular email will be sent to that person. Absolutely. And of course, you then predesign these emails in yours, series of autoresponders and maybe why, maybe we can make that a topic for another day, uh, on, on, on an aisle or respond to a series. But autumn and I do a lot of them on different lists.

Jesper (10m 49s):
Um, um, and you can build it as complex or as simple as you want, but, but the fact that, uh, an automatic email goes out helps in the way that people are actually hearing from you. So it's not on you to, eh, you know, if you were either to send an email every time somebody signs up, you're going to kill yourself and write emails every day. Um, and bought it. Or the alternative is, and I think this is the mistake that I wanted to mention, the alternative is that many people cause don't so, so they'll just don't, setting getting up is still okay.

Jesper (11m 20s):
So they have this list and then over time people start getting afraid that, Oh, but what if I sent them an email now, now a special alarm and then there probably will unsubscribe when again, and my email because they don't, they don't even know who I am anymore. And they, so you see that that's, that's it's just circling. You don't want to get there. So make sure you set up autoresponders. Um, so that they go, uh, and then, uh, with a frequent basis, with a certain interval. And when you do, so you're also only maybe have to sit down once a month and figure out to right.

Jesper (11m 52s):
Emails would of course keep them evergreen

Autumn (11m 55s):
because they will go out over time as time goes by as well. So it doesn't really, they make more sense if you write a auto responder email above book do you do because that will be out of date pretty fast. But uh, but you have courses like a newsletter email once a month manually and there you can tell them about something that is tiny and, and that is happening right now. But the stuff you add into the autoresponders, you need to make sure that those things are evergreen. If that make sense. Did I miss something there?

Autumn (12m 26s):
Autumn no, I think that's good. I just actually went the backup really quickly cause we are talking about um, the power of them. And so yes, I agree that it does take time to build up that email list that's going to, you know, go and buy your book that you'll see, see that significant bump. But the thing is they will get there. I miss you too. Do you see the, these authors who really have a new release and then the number one new release category or they're getting bestseller categories. They are doing that through the power of their newsletters as well as doing newsletter swaps, which is something else we'll talk about later.

Autumn (13m 0s):
But that's no, I'm actually selling your email list. Never sell your list of subscribers. You don't want to be labeled as a spammer, but once you actually get that motivated group of readers who are connecting with you that are with you, you know, you're sending out an email saying, Hey, you know I worked in this book. Yeah, it's going to be coming out. They're getting really excited, they're excited with you. And then when you release, they go in I bet during that week and you shoot up the Amazon rankings, this is how people are doing it. This is how those authors are getting those little bright orange tags of best-sellers and number one new releases and does the policy pretty email.

Autumn (13m 37s):
But again, it doesn't happen overnight. It still take time and yes is completely right. Um, I'm sure the Gavi, we'll want to chime in about that one, but they, it doesn't have to be a ton of work. That's where the power, not ours fonder. And using a platform, like I said, you could start a list by emailing them from your own email account. There's a lot of reasons to do that. A lot of it is you, your own email could be labeled as spam, um, which would really kind of impact the rest of your life if you couldn't send emails through your email count.

Autumn (14m 9s):
And that's why we recommend using one of the providers we're gonna talk to Anne about in a minute. But also because all of them provide the power of using an autoresponder so that when someone signs up, they can start information blog so many that you can then stop when it's time to like get into launch mode and start talking about your latest release. A lot of them tricks but T tips that we can go over with that. But I think the important thing is we need to definitely delve into who are these providers, why would you choose one?

Autumn (14m 42s):
What are the the look for when you're choosing somebody? Yeah, it's probably good to get into all that now, uh, in terms of what, what your options are.

Jesper (14m 53s):
Uh, but before S you say, I just want to wait, make like one thing completely clear. If you have not started your email list, go get, get it done now. I mean you cannot build an author business without a email list. That's the end of the story. So go get it. Get done now. And now I wanted to tell you how you can do it. You know, what sort of providers exist out there. Uh, we have not used all, I have some on my list here that I wanted to cover today. Uh, we have not used all of them, uh, that I have, I have on my list at least either so.

Jesper (15m 27s):
Well, um, but we have used several of them. So we will give you like a, our view, um, pros and cons of each one, um, that we have used themselves. And then the other ones, uh, and give a general reflection on some of the other ones that we have not used. But obviously if you are interested in, in one of those, you might want to do some research, so whatever yourself, but uh, at least we will give you everything we can in terms of what we know and uh, yeah, maybe you want to stop autumn with the one that I hate the most, then you probably know which one I'm talking about.

Autumn (16m 4s):
MailChimp MailChimp is one of the number of why. If you're Googling, you'll find it as one of the number ones listed building per service providers that people use. And there's a lot of the reasons for that. One is that it is incredibly powerful if you're going to be using, I always look at it as if you're gonna use, um, an online store. Like you're going to sell a whole bunch of products. There are some amazing analytics that you can delve into. Well, what are the key reasons that I signed up a lot of people signs up is that it is free for up to 2000 emails, males and you can send to those 2000 as as many month.

Autumn (16m 43s):
So 2000 for emails is pretty good. It's tight. I know some authors who have actually, who are really broke and they've signed up for MailChimp under different email addresses, which I totally don't remember that way they can it hit 2000 and then go hit another 2000 and, okay. Yeah, it's quite nice that way. It's a great way to get started. However, once you get going, because it is so powerful, it tends to get expensive very quickly and it does have auto-responders.

Autumn (17m 15s):
When I first signed up, the automations not available for free accounts and it also has landing pages now, which uh, so when people go and want to sign up for something, uh, originally it didn't have a landing page, but now you can actually build that within MailChimp as well. So there's some things that have opened up since I originally joined that I do make things make it a little more useful. So I love the fact that automations are now free, used to have to move to a paid account. So there's a lot there. It's some you can, how about why you don't like it, but I can say it's, it's so powerful that it's cumbersome and that is my biggest drawback is that there's all of these analytics and tools that I'm not using at all.

Autumn (17m 60s):
And you're paying for them. And so you could question it. Is there a cheaper routes? But you should definitely say what, um, because we now have a shared MailChimp account to you. You've been inside of it and you can say what you find in a way about them.

Jesper (18m 17s):
Yeah, sure. I could have for sure. Sure. Um, but maybe just before going down, I also want to say just because I don't like MailChimp, I would probably still say that if you're just starting out and am well maybe I'll bid on a bucket. I probably would still say go ahead with am startup with MailChimp because as autumn just said, it gives you 2000 subscribers for free. Very good. And, um, and that's a good starting point. So I would S S probably still buy shoes, stop there.

Jesper (18m 49s):
Um, but the thing, well first of all this, the thing is that, um, when you have the same subscriber on two different lists inside MailChimp okay. And you get to the paid level. I mean, once you're above 2000 users, they will charge you twice, have the same subscribers to different lists, which I think it's a bit of their scam almost. I would say. I just thought that it's okay to be honest. It's not okay, but that's what they do. Um, it's on the higher tiers at all.

Jesper (19m 18s):
Also also starts getting fairly expensive and I guess that's cause they need YouTube catch up with some of the many days lost on the first 2000. Uh, so they, they charge more or people well who have the, let's say, higher volume of am of subscribers, but maybe the ones one that pains me the most. The thing that always to me the most is that it's, it's not as S easy to Manchester, different sort of automation rules and all that sort of stuff. It requires a bit of a getting used to and it's not intuitive on how you set up the different automations since between different lists and all that.

Jesper (19m 56s):
You know autumn and I are running quite a number of lists so we have quite some automation between different, I mean if you could, again, if you're just starting out in it's completely basic, then it's fine, but S as you start building more it, uh, it's, it's, it's a bit complicated and maybe that's why I want to push over into the other vendor. Uh, probably the competitor, main competitor or one of them and MailChimp which is ConvertKit, which we also use am but ConvertKit is a million fantasy yeah.

Jesper (20m 26s):
When it comes, I'm S to am a nation. It's very, very easy. Did you use to have, did it drop and drag functionality? So it's so easy to set it up. Uh, they do not charge you for the same subscriber no matter how many, how many times that people do is on different lists, uh, inside ConvertKit so they didn't do that either. Am the downside course is that a ConvertKit is more expensive and you have to pay for for four years. Am subscriber number one, your pay from day one. Um, that's the downside.

Jesper (20m 57s):
Uh, but it is, it is quite powerful. Uh, they also have the ability to create that any patient just for you, which you can host on the ConvertKit platform so you don't even have to have your own website for it. Uh, which I think we'll come back to it when we were talking about list building in, in two weeks time why you need landing pages in better sort of thing. Um, there are active also allow you to AP why testing on the youth themselves. Yes. So you're sending out, then when you're starting to an email, you can write into headlines and then ConvertKit will send out the email to 50% of your list.

Jesper (21m 32s):
Oh, sorry, 50% of so list and then they will track which ones are getting the most opens. And then when they know out of those 15% who, what's a headline on the email and the subject line opens the most, then they will send for the last, uh, 85% will then receive the, the winner of the tube. So that's very smart and uh, that happens a plea deal medically, you just write in the two subject lines when you were still, uh, and then present and then convert six takes care of the rest. So it's, I really like it and that's why also I have a labored and lobbied, uh, autumn to to get us to, to move on MailChimp stuff up or into ConvertKit.

Jesper (22m 12s):
So that's something and we'll do it.

Autumn (22m 15s):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it because it does sound powerful. I know MailChimp does have, um, AB split testing as well. They have no, I looked into to. It is my watch and I'm not sure how those features work compared to ConvertKit. And part of that again is because MailChimp is so cumbersome and I've read the help sheets for, you know, timing I'm again and trying to understand different nuances and it's confusing. It's really confusing. So I just never got there. In fact, MailChimp was expensive enough and confusing enough that I actually moved my personal reading.

Autumn (22m 48s):
Here's mine emails for my books over to a different plant platform and that is MailerLite and that's definitely what I want to talk a little bit about because we're mostly authors. I think MailerLite has exactly what you need it ConvertKit where it is a meeting hurtful, but it starts as a little expensive. MailerLite is about half the price of MailChimp. So we're a MailChimp. I was paying, I think I have over 10,000 subscribers now and I was paying 60 80 a hundred bucks a month for that middle describers in MailerLite I'm paying $35 a month.

Autumn (23m 25s):
I mean that's cheap and it is free for the first 1000 subscribers. So it's less than MailChimp. But then you're only paying $10 a month. I mean, it starts off very cheaply and like ConvertKit, it has a drag and drop editor. It is so easy to build the automation. Um, you only pay for email once on your list though. I did find a down, I did that. If someone comes back and signs up for a new book or a giveaway, I'm running and I add them into my list. Um, you know, a new giveaway lists, it'll tell me I can send to them if they've already unsubscribed, subscribed.

Autumn (24m 1s):
So like, well, that's not very fair. Just because the unsubscribe and one other list doesn't mean I still can't email them if they're a winner of this giveaway. So I, I might have to send them a question about how that works, but I will say it, they had asked am covid errors and some things that drove me crazy when I first started with them. I was ready to go back to MailChimp. But the year I've been with them, they've been working really hard to create a better drag and drop editor. They've opened up to surveys and polls are now right buried into the emails.

Autumn (24m 34s):
So if you want to say, Hey, reader is, do you like this title better? Do you want me to release this month or that month or anything like that. You can all have ms pole falls directly in your emails and again, you're paying for half the points, half the cost. I mean MailChimp and I'm not even sure MailChimp. I think they do surveys again, really the covid MailerLite it's like choose boom, boom, boom, add your settings and you're done. It's really easy. So I think as a, as far as my author platform goes, I've been really happy with it.

Autumn (25m 6s):
The recent one S developments and more light and would actually recommend them for the cost and the power of their landing pages are very powerful. They actually have one that's set up for selling eBooks. So it's a drag and drop template, put in there books you put in your information, um, and you're done. So you also don't need your own author website or you can just link to it if you need to or embed it if you're really good at coding.

Jesper (25m 31s):
Yeah. Yeah. Why does one concern I wanted to mention why which of course depending on when you're watching this video why it might not be applicable anymore, but uh, but I did see like what is it over the last three, four months or something, MailerLite had an shoulder issue at some, uh, something recently, Lee, where back to activity there, they own Sova was spec listed as a spam sober, which is extremely bad. You are in the business of email marketing and your survey is marked as spam.

Jesper (26m 1s):
You'll have a huge problem and you, you have done something very, very wrong if that happens. So at least to me that that's a red flag. And I'm a bit concerned about that. On the positive. I would say that they were open about it. They communicated openly about that, that they had made some mistakes. I think that's the positive that they were open about it, but a racist, some red flags for me, to be honest,

Autumn (26m 23s):
it did. I don't, I do think that, um, a lot of it was they were a little too lenient and some people were abusing the system. It doesn't take two many the ms targeted emails, um, and readers getting them complaining. I think that their spam for, uh, for something like that to happen. They did. People know, okay, but something going on. Um, but they will also said it was about a month window that they said your emails might not be reaching people if you are doing something right now, if you're sending an email, might not be reading, reaching the readers.

Autumn (26m 55s):
So if that's an important thing to know.

Jesper (26m 57s):
To I have two more on my list. I don't know. There was some more to say about MailerLite before I just jump ahead here.

Autumn (27m 3s):
No, I think that would be, that's pretty much the important aspects. Like I said, I still get giving them my time because I think they've bounced back from that. They've changed some of their policies. But um, there definitely are some quirks compared to when you see something that's very okay. Oh right. And then very expensive. Well, I can cut and MailChimp MailerLite definitely is the soft and fluffy, um, rules occasionally. And that can lead to being abused. Yeah.

Jesper (27m 32s):
Oh, I had on my list, that's a active campaign and Infusionsoft but it's, we have like, I have not used any of these and I don't think all of them has either. But, um, at least the way I see the DCE are very, very powerful. This like enterprise level powerhouses mean we have marketing. Uh, and at least from, um, from an author business. I, I, I don't really see why you need is so complex systems to be honest.

Jesper (28m 3s):
The ones that we mentioned here MailChimp, ConvertKit MailerLite, they all do what you need to do when they do do it cheaper and it's probably easier to navigate. Uh, obviously if you end up having a fairly complex, a am author business, uh, I don't know, may, maybe it would be useful for you one day, but that's where, as I said in the beginning of the video, I swear I probably, he sent you the direction of doing some Google research on your own because I don't think it's fair for us to sit here and speculate on, on good and bads about the stuff that we haven't even used ourselves.

Jesper (28m 34s):
But then but at least know that it exists.

Autumn (28m 37s):
Absolutely. And there is one more that I actually am a member of it lately and that is storyorigin. So we're actually gonna talk to the designer of that. Evan in Oh two months. I believe it's going to be loyal. But it is an interesting one. Well that this is designed and targeted to autumn and it's, it's a lot like MailerLite from what I've seen that is am very user friendly. It has a lot of drag and drop software. It has a list building, landing pages.

Autumn (29m 10s):
And what's interesting is it is targeting authors. So some of the specifics like I cannot remember if it's to started, no, but I don't know how many emails you get with that. But it's also interesting is because you can network with other authors directly on the platform so that if you will wants to do something called a newsletter swap, which is where you say, Hey, I will put your in my news, you'll put my book in New York or newsletter and am you both agree to handle that. You know, you can do that right on the platform where you get some later.

Autumn (29m 40s):
So there's, you know, the author, other author is holding up their, their end of the bargain and also some book group giveaways. So if you're a part of am instaFreebie or book funnel or you know, the ones where you can do book book giveaways with other others, it's also another platform. So you can question, we need another book giveaway platform and other new swap platform cause there's a lot of those. But it is interesting that Evan has sign up all with am within one platform. And so I think I have to admit, if I was starting out as a new author looking around, I would be very tempted to storyorigin because it is kind of nice that it's all in one spot.

Autumn (30m 19s):
So it's just one place to go and you can manage everything and talk to other authors about it. So yeah, death, birth giving, um, giving some thought to and looking into, if you're just starting out with your newsletter news, the only list. But, uh, we'll deftly, I talked to Evan and a few months to see, you know, why he developed it and what his goals were for it. And just talk, come with Stephanie as well. Why you have an alias the going for the next few months.

Jesper (30m 46s):
Yeah. Cause I, and then just to clarify, when autumn says that we're going to talk to him, it means that he actually coming on here. Yeah. The challenge. Yes. So, so you can you, he will talk to both of us here. So we'll be three. I'm on the call and uh, it's gonna take, I think you're right about two months before we have the slough book with him. Our production schedule is pretty tight as you can here, but uh, but he will come on here and the am so you can hear him and explain it about that as well, so that's good. Okay.

Autumn (31m 16s):
It is too much work to maintain a list. So why bother? Yeah.

Jesper (31m 21s):
There is something to be said. Actually. You don't have the appointment grumpy because, uh, maintaining lists do require some work. Am Hmm. We talked about the autoresponders before, uh, that you need to set up a unit to write those emails. You need to put them in. If you have some automation, you need to actually do automation. Yeah, it does. It does require work. Um, but, uh, bet the thing and that we actually have not touched upon, which is I think it's relevant to talk about here as well. Um, it's sometimes I think that, I dunno, maybe it's a bit touchy, I don't know.

Jesper (31m 54s):
But, uh, there's definitely different viewpoints on it, so I'll give you mine and I actually, I'm not 100%, surely if a autumn has to seem, so maybe we'll continue. They do meet, but we'll see. Um, but the topic is around, so when you have people on your own, just, uh, you will also have some people who never opens the emails. L.E.T. What do you do about dose? There are those who, well, it's way there that you should delete them and that's fine. Um, and then there are people like me who will say, if they don't open my emails and I'm paying for them, it'd be sitting on my list, then I will delete them.

Jesper (32m 32s):
If they don't open my emails, I don't just delete them straight outright like that. I, I always, every three months I will again, ConvertKit has to functionality built in so it will automatically tell you who the people are, who's not opening the email that you're sending out. So what I do is that every three months I sent those people an email and say, just something simple. We'll like, OK, I, I've noticed that you're not opening my emails and if, if you're not interested anymore, that's cool. No worries. Uh, I will delete you off my list next week.

Jesper (33m 4s):
Uh, but if you do read my emails, because by the way, it does happen. And it's because when, when the email, Oh, service provider sends out the email, they load in a one pixel transparent image into the email and they attract, if that image actually gets loaded on the other end on the receiving end. But when people, for example, have like, um, the settings in their Hotmail or Gmail or whatever set up so that they don't do not automatically load pictures, then dish email tracking system will not register that they open the door.

Jesper (33m 36s):
Well, even though they active he did. So that's why I send out this email. And then I, I add add to the, to what I said before, and I say it, but if you are, uh, if you would like to stay on the list, just click this link, uh, and then I add an in link where they can click to remove that tack on against their name that they should be deleted. Uh, and then we laid it a week goes by and then at that point in time I do go in and then I just delete everybody who did not click that link. Um, and, and they are the list. They of course, they can always sign up again if they want.

Jesper (34m 8s):
Um, but personally, I just don't see the point in having people there who doesn't open. Uh, and of course what happens, well, when you do this is that your open rates scopes up because you remove all the people who, who apparently WD email. Um, but I have to say as well that there are those who swear that you should not do this. That's what I do. But I actually, I don't know if you do the same autumn

Autumn (34m 32s):
I do. I don't think that, I don't do it every three months. I'm trying to do it at least once a year, sometimes twice a year. So maybe every six months. But sort of the same thing. It's, it's um, some people use the number on their email list as a kind of a boost. You know, you'll see people validating, like touting, you know, they have 16,000 or 20,000 or 50,000. I joined a box at once that had a minimum number of people on your email list requirement ask about,

Jesper (35m 1s):
okay.

Autumn (35m 1s):
Right. You know, if you have 5,000 people that have this huge, like 80% open, right. That's better than having 10,000 people with like a 5% open rate. You need to pay attention to these people are, you know, are you connect with them? Are they opening your email? But they see you. That's much more important than the number on your list, especially when you're paying per email address or in MailChimp pay for everything. Your personally, well not even on that list. No matter how many times they sign up. So it's important that they're active and doing something.

Autumn (35m 34s):
Otherwise, you know, if you do care about statistics, like, like what your open rate is and yeah, you see you 20,000 subscribers and an open rate of 0.2% why YouTube okay. Oh that one we're for 0.2% you know, cut the dead weight. Uh, I agree it's best when you send them in email it says, Hey, are you really getting this? Because invariably there are these people who it looks like they're not opening on, but they could be your number one fans and look forward to your email every single month.

Autumn (36m 4s):
You just don't know unless you ask them and get them to either respond or click on a link that says that they want to stay on board. And that's the important thing. Before you cut them as at least, you know, ask them, that's the meeting emailed it. Do you suddenly am this core group who loves what you're doing. You can ask them questions, but we'll get into more about, you know, some of the things you can put in emails sales. But I think it's so much fun to be able to respond, okay, title or I'm thinking about this character and actually get people who care about your writing responding back to see, Hey, I need a beta reader who wants to do sign up.

Autumn (36m 42s):
And you get people to sign up and it's just fun and very empowering and it makes you feel actually right. I think so. Because there actually some somewhat out there waiting for you to finish up what you're working on.

Jesper (36m 55s):
Yeah. And do you, uh, and I, I read this somewhere and it's been awhile, so I'm going off memory, so, Oh, take it, take it as it is. But the am if you, I was just, I would just want it to, to add in that am if you are, let's say interested in, so what is it, we're talking about open rates here and one, so, Oh, what is good, what isn't a good open rate? What's a bad one, right? And so forth. If you're curious about it, I read some wild back and again, I'm going off memory here. I'd um, I read that the average industry average when it comes to author email, this is 25% open rates.

Jesper (37m 33s):
So if you were sitting sitting at 25% open rate, you are on the average. Um, but I will also say if you do some of the stuff that we're talking about here, if you actually pruning the list of people who shouldn't be there, a person, my list of say 60% open rate and that's perfectly doable. I've also heard of people at 80%. Uh, so it's certainly possible. Um, and to me that, do you want it? Uh, I mean 25%. That's good. No problem. You don't have any headaches if you were there.

Jesper (38m 2s):
Uh, if you're billowed and you probably have too much death way down on your, on your list. Um, but, uh, yeah, I just wanted to, to add that in there in case people want to, I know as soon as people talks about as soon as we start talking about rates or something, uh, percentages, mm. You know, a lot of people's first thoughts are what, so what is good and what is bad? So at least that gives you a bit indication there if you're wondering about that. Um, but, um, otherwise I, I think, uh, we will add the different that links to the two plastic when talked about here today.

Jesper (38m 36s):
We'll add them into the description field below so that you can click straight from there. Uh, and then you don't have to remember what it was that we said. That's always helpful. Um, but, uh, but I think in, in conclusion, if I summarize all up correctly here, autumn then I think what we probably are recommending is that if you're just starting out and if you want go with either MailChimp or MailerLite, uh, if you want something a bit more, uh, uh, with a bit more, let's say automation and, and you're, you're, you're getting a bit further and you're like me grow tired of MailChimp or something, then I would say switch to ConvertKit.

Jesper (39m 17s):
Um, do you another the nice thing about maybe just as a, as an add on as well, the nice thing is also that if you come to ConvertKit with 5,000 subscribers from another list, they will actually do it well the switch for you. So they will take you on a list for somebody. Awesome. I just popped them into ConvertKit and they will set up all the automation just that you already have existing for you in ConvertKit so you don't even have to do anything more or less. So that's a service that they provide, but you have to have 5,000 subscribers before they do so. Um, but, um, yeah, I don't know.

Jesper (39m 48s):
Is that it? Autumn

Autumn (39m 50s):
I think so. Like I said, would please check out storyorigin to if I was just starting out just because it is author centric and there's nothing wrong with getting into a platform that is going to help you build your author platform and have good advice. But definitely MailerLite has been surprisingly. Yeah. Um, working with authors as well and MailChimp is much broader, but it does have that $2,000 or 2000 email free, uh, which is I think the highest that is out there to be able to get 2000 emails and not have to pay a dime for us email else.

Autumn (40m 26s):
Uh, that's fantastic. And I'll definitely some of what you said before, if you don't have an email list, go get one. It doesn't matter. Or if you have 10 bucks out, one book out, zero books out, you want a mail list. Do you want to be in charge of this email list? So go ahead and get started today. It's important and it'll help you sell more books.

Jesper (40m 48s):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the email is, his email list is where the money is. That's it. Simple as that. Um, so, uh, yeah, I think we, we, we sort of ran a bit longer than we intended to do here and maybe that's what's going to happen in the future. Every time credential of us gets on his butt. Okay. Hopefully you, uh, hopefully you found it a useful to, uh, to hear us just chat about a topic. A Vista. It was, it was fun. So hopefully you thought, uh, thought so too. And am well, we'll see you next Monday.