Facebook and The Metaverse

The Long Run Show

Hello, and welcome back to the long run show. This is one of your hosts, Michael. O'Connor here with Austin Wilson. Yeah. Good to be here.

And today we're going to be talking about a topic that I think is, has been catching a lot of headlines. Catching a lot of eyes and ears and minds, uh, which is the metaverse what the heck is the metaverse what's going on? Is mark Zuckerberg a wizard? No, and we don't know the answer to that, but we can't, it might be in the metaverse.

We might find the answer to that in the metaverse. Yeah, the metaverse what a, what a meta idea. Um, yeah, there's, there's going to be a lot of puns in this one. Okay. So Facebook just, uh, this past year at the end of end of 2021 changed their name. Everybody's aware of that. Um, had they changed their ticker yet?

I think it's, I don't think they have like an actually look that up. Uh, so anyways, they, they changed their name at big play into the whole meta angle. Metaverse they're really trying to, uh, hone in on this. And it's, it's interesting because. The metaverse it kind of a wild idea. Some say it's the logical, uh, evolution of the internet, which I somewhat do agree with.

Um, but I, I'm not sure that I am ready for this logical next step in, in where we're headed. Um, so there's some spooky stuff there, there might be some good stuff. There is definitely, I will say more opportunity for. Um, more opportunity for data than ever before in the metaverse. Um, and, and we all know that Facebook's bread and butter is data, uh, and, and selling that data.

So really it's. Uh, it's going to be an interesting next decade to see where this takes us, what that means. I have some philosophical questions, but right off the, right off the bat, like, what are your, what are your thoughts, uh, off the cuff here on the metaverse. Yeah, real quick, just to follow up on what we were just so that still is FB for Mehta platforms.

The ticker is still NASDAQ FB, so they've not changed the ticker yet. Um, but I think when you brought up as a good point here, just that the data that will be inherent. Like Facebook is all social media is already tracking just about anything you're doing on their platform. But if you're, if you're in the VR goggles and you're doing stuff in the metaverse, if you're, if you own land, if you're engaging in commerce, whatever is going on on the metaverse, they're going to have pretty much real time data of everything you're doing, um, which is, you know, not, not exactly comforting.

And it's also a place where their eyes far as I know. And I I'd asked you this as well. I think. A little more research on the, kind of the legal and the implications of the metaverse than I have. Um, but the, the, uh, as far as I know, there are less or no privacy laws and like kind of stuff like that in the metaverse, whereas, you know, on, on social media there, you have to opt into certain data tracking and also stuff like that.

I don't, as far as I know, I don't think there's any, any of that for the metaverse yet. Well, they, so Facebook, one really interesting thing about. The metaverse that we do know. So there's a lot, we don't know regarding the legal side of things. Um, I would imagine a lot of the same data C or data privacy laws will, will try to be applied to the metaverse as like a platform.

Um, so you'll probably see a lot of the same rules and regulation. Try to be applied, but it's, it's like, it's like applying, um, it's like the sec applying, you know, trading rules when it used to be paper stock certificates that were exchange to computer trading where there's just ones and zeros making the trade happen.

Um, and there's no physical stock certificates. So it's like that sort of a paradigm shift, at least in my view. So I think we're going to have to have an update of these, of these laws. And, and I think it could lead to a lot of issues, uh, starting out. Um, one thing that we do know from Facebook so far is, you know, they, they have said they're not doing any facial recognition on any posts or, or, uh, photos that you post on, on Facebook.

Um, so that that's nice for their, their platform. However, We have not heard the same thing when it comes to the metaverse and maybe I'm maybe I don't fully understand it. And so, you know, you could be screaming why you don't get it. I don't understand what the vendor says, cause maybe you'll maybe it'll be, you know, totally avatars and you know, that sort of software doesn't matter.

But the fact that they haven't really said anything. Data privacy is concerning just because, you know, in the last five years that's been a huge issue as these social media platforms and, and search platforms. Google has got caught up in the data, privacy issues too. Um, we've seen cookies go away for instance, right?

And so if we're seeing cookies go away, but now everything you do in the metaverse can be tracked, um, that that could present some very interesting legal issues. That again, I think we're going to see existing, uh, laws and regulations regarding data privacy be applied to the metaverse as a platform. But I think what you'll see is the, the, the corporations who are running this, and it's not just Facebook.

I mean, we're really harping on, on Mehta platforms. Excuse me. We're really harping on them. But Disney has plans for, for metaverse, um, content or platforms or capabilities. Um, so it's not just not just. But we'll, we'll see these companies probably looking for the most lenient way for those rules to be applied.

Um, so it's, it's gonna be interesting. It's it's uncharted territory. Um, and I am, I. A bit concerned just because we've seen how well our government has handled the uncharted territory of crypto, uh, which isn't even another universe. Okay. We're just talking about real world innovation, uh, in, you know, the blockchain crypto space.

They haven't handled that well. So we still have, uh, I, I, in fact, in one of those crypto hearings I heard, uh, I think it was a Senator. How the internet works and I'm like, well, we're about 30 years behind on this. And these people are going to be writing the rules and regs for the metaverse. So on that, on that end, I am a bit concerned regulatory wise for what's to come, but I'm, you know, hopefully I'll be proven wrong.

Hopefully we'll, we'll have cooler heads and brighter minds prevail, um, in, in that space. But yeah, the legal aspect is, is. Uh, entirely. So what the, the data on the other hand from a purely business standpoint could be very, very valuable. So I'm interested, you said you, you had some, some kind of like bullish points, uh, as far as the business side.

So I think that's probably the most convincing is that. Gifts, the companies who are creating these Mehta versus, um, a lot of data, which can easily be sold to advertisers or big companies. I mean, it's something we've, I believe there's already been a couple of companies that have popped up that are specifically metaverse advertising companies.

Like they specialize in creating billboards and advertisements in VR worlds. Uh, which is fascinating. I think that's probably going to grow a lot of. And, you know, you're going to, you're going to be able to buy an ad spot in a town square in a virtual town in, in the metaverse. And that could be a big, legitimate way of advertising or, or ad spots in virtual sports.

Or you've already seen, we've already seen that video games. Exactly. Multi-verse or yeah, multi-verse multiplayer role-playing game. Exactly, exactly. And so I think, especially talking specifically in terms of the law, Uh, as we always, as we always talk, um, I think that for on the business side, I think there's some pretty bullish cases because it's almost I from, I, I believe that if we hadn't had COVID when we did and all the, all the bad things that have happened with COVID, but one of the, I think one of the good things is the, uh, the, the democratization of remote work.

I think if we hadn't had that. I don't think the metaverse would be gaining as much traction and also as much hype and kind of talk as it is right now, because at a certain level, what's the use of the metaverse. If you're, if you're working eight hours a day in an office, I mean, sure. You can, you can get off at the end of the day.

And then it's kind of this, the whole thing of second life. I remember when that was all talked about and like second life, this, this kind of metaverse concept without, you know, virtual reality. So it's not as integrated, but that was a whole kind of talk of the. But I think one of the main problems with stuff like that is that it only really affects people.

Either don't have to work or are on it in the night hours, uh, after work. Whereas the metaverse, I think one of the big. Selling points and why it's kind of gaining a lot of traction. A lot of eyes, especially in the business world is that you could be in a virtual office. And that's something that I believe the hedge funds and wall street, they've gone back to fully remote.

Cause if I'm a Cron and I would certainly imagine that they're looking at okay, how do we create a kind of an office experience that's similar. So you have everyone we're in VR goggles and you're in your virtual Goldman Sachs office all day. And then you step outside and you can go. Uh, virtual sports game or something.

So there's, there's some very interesting and, and I think frankly, scary, uh, 24 7 implications of the metaverse that we're not around before. COVID that's true. I mean, if your office is virtual, there's no need for it to shut down so that, yeah, I mean, that could bring in some very odd implications. I mean, I'm just thinking of, like, to me, it's it's so.

Um, from a, from a philosophical standpoint, I really don't like the idea of separating, uh, our, our experiences of the, the real world, the tangible world, uh, through something that's augmented and not necessarily physical. The one hold out. I have some hope I have is that no matter what, there's always, you know, functions of being a human that require the real world.

You have to go to the bathroom, going to have to go to the bathroom. You can't do that. Well then maybe people will start wearing depends on your, I don't know. Yeah, that's a whole, that's that's horrible anyways, but you can't eat necessarily in the metaverse right. That requires real food. So there's, there's certain things where I'm hopeful that.

Well, we won't get entirely sucked in, but we've seen, we've seen the issues that arise from, from video gaming. In fact, China. Has has put in place rules for youth and how it can be on video games. Can't be on video games at all during the week, only certain hours on the weekends. So will we see, you know, we've, we've seen that very strict approach, but we all know that there, there are effects, um, uh, video games are addictive.

So what, what do we say about this completely immersive world of the metaverse, you know, that that could really have some negative implications, um, in regards to. Just our quality of life. Now I will say it would be interesting and I'm sure it would be stimulating and tantalizing and fun, but there is such a thing as too much of a, too much of a good thing.

Yeah. Yeah. And kind, kinda, kind of rolling off of that. The, I think with the metaverse the, another philosophical kind of problem is that it, because it's a very, you know, As immersiveness as we've seen haptic technology. So essentially like touch interfaces, so gloves, uh, you know, full body suits, whatever, um, as immersive technology increases.

Um, I think we're going to continually see a, it's a more potent form of escapism as the years go by as technology increases. It's a more potent form of escapism, which Brooks the question of will people. Begin to care less about the world. I probably, I would say people will probably start to care less about, you know, I mean, you could say that they're, you know, if you're, if you're very well off in the metaverse, who cares, if you're in a tiny, messy one room, apartment, a studio apartment or something like that, you know, if you're, if you're your main life goals and your interactions are all are all in the metaverse, who cares where exactly you are.

Who cares about your neighborhood and who cares about cleaning up trash or having a garden or living in a nice place. It's interesting effects to it because that could, that could accelerate some of the problems we do have, like you just, you just mentioned like cleaning up trash or caring about your community or, you know, or even caring about the environment or any of that that could really kind of counterintuitively have these, the.

Extra niceties that we are not even considering at this point. Well, we are, but right now this is the point at which we consider those extremes. So what do you think is the, and it's always hard to pin down motive or why. Right. But I see, you know, when I, when I hear, uh, that the Facebook higher ups, especially mark Zuckerberg or even Disney, you know, talking about the metaverse now Disney, I.

Is going to probably create like immersive experiences on like a more of a theme park level. Yeah. Not necessarily like we want to create, I don't know, half the time when I listen to mark Zuckerberg, I don't, I don't understand what he's saying. Um, he seems very out of touch, but it, you know, we want to create this whole universe and a other worldly thing.

When I hear that pretty much, what I see in his eyes is dollar signs. Right? That's clearly the motive is it's okay. This is the next way for me to make. Um, which is a bit interesting to me because like Facebook does very well clearly, um, that the stock price reflects that. But, um, you can't be stagnant for long.

So is this like a, and I hate to sound so harsh on it, but is this a, um, a negative consequence of art are, uh, or a possible negative consequence of our constant, um, Hamster wheel seeking for innovation. Hmm. Is this like, is this a, um, issue that, that may really show us that maybe constant innovation for the sake of itself isn't necessarily the right path?

I don't know. Um, that's getting meta about the metaverse, but it is, it is interesting to see, you know, like, This is clearly a very successful company, clearly a very successful CEO, but he doesn't just, you know, sell and, and ride off into the sun. He's still trying to push forward something. Now I can disagree with him.

Many people can disagree with him, but clearly that he's trying to push something forward. Is, is that necessarily a bad thing? Um, it's interesting that, you know, innovation does create value in, we've talked about value in a, in a separate podcast. Does does constant innovation, you know, keep creating this value.

That's the real question. Well, first off mark, we know you're an avid listener to this, so sorry for now. Um, but I think the, the, an important distinction is how do you define, how do you define innovation? Like innovation needs to be defined as something that actually produces value and growth. And this is a whole philosophical.

Business philosophy discussion of, you know, business versus antibusiness, you know, actually things that are written up as business and actually aren't or written up as innovation. That actually aren't because, I mean, if you look at, I mean, it looks the, the studies on Friday, the, I forget it was the wall street journal, the New York times it came out with the big, uh, Instagram can expo say on New York, whoever it was, wall street journal, the New York times, um, they broke the, the big, uh, the big scandal of Instagram.

I mean, you have. You have to kind of weigh that and say, okay, is the value of whatever this is providing the ability to share photos to the public and have a kind of a weird quasi town, common of, of content. Is that providing more value than, than producing anxiety, depression, suicide? Um, yeah, pretty maybe not serious issues and maybe not directly.

I mean, it's, it's so different. To assign causation, uh, in situations like this, like there are so many factors, but at the same time, it's like, okay, I think we had a similar thing with vapes, you know, about 10 years ago, Juul coming out and then getting hammered because it's like, you could, you could call it innovation.

I mean, it's, it's a new way to smoke a new way to get nicotine. So it's kind of innovation, but I think that the definition of innovation has to be kind of tempered and, uh, qualified with. Value creating innovation or is this simply a new way to do something or a new way to package something? Now I think that there could, I think there there's definitely pieces of the metaverse that are genuine and legitimate value creation in innovation.

Um, I think that there, there is probably some unique value to the ability to interact in a more human way. Um, virtually I think. It's probably better than simply hopping on a zoom meeting or a Google calendar meeting or whatever, in some circumstances. However, I think that just knowing some psychology and knowing people a little bit, it's like, I think that people will most likely go overboard and you know, the metaverse in moderate.

We'll probably be a good thing, but how many people will be engaging in moderation? And I, I know myself, like I, sometimes there are just things that there are certain platforms. I pretty much deleted Instagram and Facebook. I just don't use those products anymore. And it's, I mean, so your phone, Facebook and Instagram are three great examples of a product slash platform that is designed to be.

Interact with it as much as possible. Yeah. And so, I mean, it's kind of a red flag to me that the, the company that came up with Facebook and then bought Instagram two of the most, I would say, addictive social media platforms out there. Um, those, that company is now going to create the metaverse and we're going to use it in moderation.

I find that hard to believe. I mean, the like button has no added value. It's one bit of information. And the only reason it's there is to create more interaction with the platform. So it, I find it very hard to believe that, you know, Facebook is in it for good reasons. That's why I say, you know, there's dollar signs.

And again, mark, if you're listening well, if we can sit down for a coffee and talk it out, a virtual coffee in the metaverse yeah, action might be down to drink, but anyways, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll clear that up later. So I, I mean, that's why I have an issue with it and I think I'm not necessarily alone. I think.

Um, it's we, we saw that with crypto, uh, Facebook tried, what, what was there was, it, it wasn't Facebook coin, but they tried to create a crypto and it completely flopped. Now of course you have wall street against hat, and at the time you had a lot of government agencies against that. Right? So there, there was a lot of force coming to.

Um, so maybe this metaverse play is different. Um, clearly they're bought in as a company. I mean, they changed their name to meta platforms, Inc. So clearly they're bought in as a company, but we've seen them fail at these new, these new ventures into the, the, what is the trend of the moment. Right. And so maybe we can help.

That that's now I'm not saying short Facebook. That's not what I'm saying, but not financial advice. This maybe if I can hope that, that there is some sort of roadblock that gets presented that's unforeseen at this point, uh, that makes it impossible for them to complete this metaverse transformation. And I'm pretty bullish outlook on the metaverse right there.

That's a pretty bare show. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm very bearish. I think, I mean, I think it is. I think some sort of, um, widely accepted use of VR and XR is, is the next, the very next step. Um, I think you're going to see that become more widely used. And I think maybe the talk of the metaverse is a little over hyped.

Um, especially on the heels of, you know, Facebook changing their name and all that. But I think it's a little over-hyped at the moment. I think the next, the very next logical step is using using, uh, you know, these VR headsets for more than just a cool game. Um, there's a lot of, in fact, I've heard of, you know, virtual mixers, um, virtual conferences where you can go to the conference.

So there's, there's definitely business applications. Especially in, like you said, COVID and all the shutdowns and, and, you know, rules and, and people being scared to go out all, all of that has shifted our mindset around virtual work and, and what you can do, uh, and get paid for. Um, that that's definitely a shifted mindset.

So I think the next step is, you know, VR headsets being used in more than just a video game app. Um, so from a, from a trading and investing standpoint, that's probably the next logical step. I mean, if you already pretty much all of us in some way, probably own meetup platforms, Inc. At this point, if you're, if you're in any index fund, you own it pretty much.

Um, so you know, you, you probably have some exposure to it already, but if you're looking for, for kind of like a portfolio. Maybe idea there, maybe looking to the companies that are producing the VR headsets and are, are really producing the hardware that makes the virtual reality possible. That's probably the next play, uh, because those, those, I mean, if we're going to have everyone at a Goldman Sachs office in the metaverse, you gotta have a lot of headsets.

You can't really get around that. That's a real world thing. You gotta have. You can't just have the virtual. That's a good, the virtual VR.

That's the problem with this conversation. It is when you're talking about the metaverse, it all gets so meta. It really does. And I'm not saying that just to make the joke. I mean, it's like, you're talking about talking about talking. Yeah. You're you're yeah, it gets a little, little, a little too far a fuel at some point.

So I think it's helpful to bring it back to, okay, well, we need hardware for this. It's not. We can hop on our computer. Clearly we need, uh, we need hardware. That's got to get out. Those have to be bought and sold the parks for that have to be bought and sold. That has to be made. So there's, there's definitely a big business behind that at this point.

So that, that might be, um, one thing to look at in the short term or, or I guess shorter term. Um, but it could be sustained too, right? Like. We're probably going to see updates to those, to that hardware. Just like we've seen updates to computing power and all that. We'll probably see those updates coming along too.

So those sort of companies may be a good play in the short term, I guess I'm this brings up a little bit of that. The ethical side of. Investing sometimes. Um, which I think sometimes I've, I've had discussions where people go a little too far, I think, to the ethical side. But you know, when we're talking about plot, this, this metaverse platform, I personally very much disagree, but I'm also going to probably buy a, uh, uh, an index fund that has a portion of Facebook in it.

Yeah. So I'm going to have exposure to it, whether I like it or not. Um, so really, I guess, Some of the ethical questions come in, as, you know, if you really disagree with it, should you be building your portfolio to exclude it or do you just, you know, in the long run I'm a buy and hold kind of guy. So do you just say, well, I don't like it necessarily, but whatever, I'm just going to, I'm just going to deal with it.

Um, could almost become a new, you know, social impact could become a new category of the ESG jurisdiction to enter. So we might, we might see that from this. I don't know that that could be a, again, hard to quantify. Um, but you know, a lot of things in ESG are hard to quantify, but we're finding ways. So, yeah.

So there is a, an ethical side to, to this whole discussion too, and investing in it. That's a good point because I think, you know, we're starting to see more and more, um, more and more investors and traders and institutions kind of looking at. You know, stakeholder capital theory and all sorts of, you know, ways to look at the impact, the societal social, um, ethical impact of different technologies, different businesses.

And I mean, Facebook's had all metal platforms. Is that a rough year? They've been a lot of ethical stuff come up. They've had a lot. So I think it'd be interesting to see if that those kinds of things start dying off. If they. Try and really clean up their act. I think, cause I mean, just looking at, looking at their, their stock price, I mean, they've still gone up almost 31% in the past year, but they, they Crested right before the kind of scandals and then they really they've come back.

But not that they haven't fully recovered from that. And I think it'll be interesting to watch and see if they kind of. If everyone stops talking about it, will they just kind of everyone forget about it and move on? Or is it something that is a longterm factor affecting, um, Facebook Mehta platforms? Um, and I think you bring up a good point of the hardware is going to be incredibly important.

I think that's a great investing opportunity. If, if you know, if, especially if we see adoption increasing, uh, VR headsets have to. Treadmills for omnidirectional treadmills. Those are wild. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of interesting hardware innovation going on, which could be really solid. Uh, I think that's probably a great long run investment opportunities as well, but in the long run, it's interesting because we, we don't really know.

Um, where does this, I mean, obviously we don't, we don't know what the future, but this is kind of an interesting. Topic, because with crypto it's like the, kind of the, the base qualities of cryptocurrency already out there don't exist. It's decentralized, uh, you know, all of those, all the kind of main functionalities, smart contracts, decentralization, um, anonymity, the blockchain is already very well established.

Whereas with the metaverse it's it's I think, I think Metametrix is a more of a black box and crypto. Oh, yeah, I would a hundred percent agree now, I think to agree with that statement, you probably need to have gotten down the rabbit hole a little bit with crypto to realize how much is already is already out there.

Right. Um, and, and Benzinga has a lot of good information on crypto, um, that the crypto guys, Logan and Ryan have a great podcast on crypto too. So going down the rabbit hole and having gone and gone down the road, And come back alive. Um, there really is a lot already out there and established, and I think in a way, crypto is not that far and, and decentralized, you know, currencies are not that far away from what we already have.

Um, Necessarily the decentralization aspect is, is huge. But I mean, we, our banking system is pretty much entirely run on ones and zeros at this point. So like I do all my banking virtually. I don't go to a brick and mortar bank and deposit a paycheck. It's all done virtually. So that is less of a leap, I think, than taking.

What we currently do, which is sitting in an office face-to-face or in a board board room or, or at a coffee shop and having a meeting, taking that a hundred percent virtual, I guess, maybe it's the next step, uh, from zoom meetings. But to me, it's, it's very, it's, it's a larger step than, than it was from, you know, some digital banking to cryptocurrency.

Yeah, to me, it's a larger step. And again has more, um, more problematic implications. I'm not even gonna say negative because they're just problems that we don't know what's going to happen with them. Right. The privacy issues, the even, even like, okay, if you sign a contract in the metaverse, is that a legal binding?

Well, contract law does not currently have any, any sort of handshake, a virtual handshake, a virtual handshake. Does that count or trademarks? Do those carry over into the no matter verse or, you know, you've got all the people buying. I think it was, I saw some rapper buying like millions of dollars worth of quote unquote real estate, which is, you know, it's not really real, um, real estate or property in the metaverse.

Okay. Well, who holds the DDT? There's no city office with a repository. Right? So again, maybe I'm thinking too small minded and I just sound like your grandpa. So feel free to let us know if that's what it sounds like, but, um, there's a lot of problems with the metaverse that, uh, that I don't know if I don't think Facebook or Mehta platforms Inc.

Will be able to, um, overcome those as quickly as some might be saying right now, just with. Um, because again, I point back to you, you pointed out all the scandals that I wasn't even thinking of this past year, but I point back to the, the crypto issues, um, of when they were trying to create their own cryptocurrency on their platform that didn't even go through.

So there are some, I personally have some questions, um, I'll see it when I believe it or I'll believe it when I see it. And maybe it met Mehta platforms and get saying, well, we'll, we'll see it when we book or no, we'll believe it when we see it anyways. Um, so yeah, I think there's, there's a lot of problems there.

And so I guess I wouldn't necessarily be a hundred percent bullish on them. Yeah. I think that's a good point. But in that crypto, There you go, there you go. Cause it, crypto is a, I think a simply a mindset shift, a psychological shift because you have to just simply understand what's going on and whatever.

Whereas metaverse is a fundamentally, it's a behavioral and it's a behavioral shift. You have to be physically doing the things in your chair, wearing the headset, moving your gloves, whatever it's, it's ultimately a behavioral shift, which I think is much harder. To do, but I think it's interesting because I think that the metaverse is very similar to a platform like Facebook, where there are incredibly, um, incredibly effective social economies of scale, where if you have the metaverse platform with the most people on it, everyone else is going to be going into that one.

And that one will be the place to be because you just won't be able to interact with people. Probably. I mean, There's no, there seems to be no incentive to not create a walled garden of a metaverse, which in it of itself brings up some problems. Exactly. It brings some problematic systems. Um, now, you know, there's already decentral land.

Um, but I, I don't necessarily see a decentralized metaverse working, um, or at least creating a critical mass of social capital because if a company is running it. Very big incentives to just get everyone on board. And I think they're going to, out-compete something like decentrally and probably, maybe not, maybe people will, you know, maybe, um, maybe enough people will be conscious of kind of the risks of that and, um, will not just go along with it, but I, I would expect whatever the biggest metaverse platform is in, you know, two to five years.

Kind of be the metaverse platform that you have to go on for everything. It's almost like it's almost like a Google search. So we might see the same, the same, uh, arc that we've seen with search where Google took over. But now everyone's understanding Google a little bit better. In fact, I keep getting ads on YouTube for Google, where they're like trying to create a really good image, like, well, how does search work?

How do you see certain ads? It's interesting. I'm like, What's going wrong with Google. Um, but you know, Google had a T day where everyone was, was using Google as their platform. But now I am seeing a lot of people, uh, switch over to alternative search engines because they're unhappy with how Google is using their data and what they're serving up and how they're, how they're curating the search, uh, the search results.

And so. We may see something similar with metaverse companies. Maybe the first one does have a lot of staying power, but there might be some very good, um, some very potent contenders and juggernauts that come up, uh, come up through the ranks, as the problems with one are more readily, uh, seen by the users, um, and experienced, we may see some others come up like we have with search.

So yeah, it's, it's hard to say, but I think. Th I do think Metta Metta platforms, Inc. If the, this whole thing is to come to existence, I really do believe they are best positioned for it. Um, unfortunately, which is like not, not really where I want to, not really what I want to say, but I think that's the reality is they've clearly done a great job creating Facebook to be, uh, I mean, we'll just say it highly addictive for interaction.

If there's going to be a sticky metaverse platform, it's probably going to come from, from meta platforms, formerly known as fate. Yeah. Yeah. So there, I think there, you have it in the long run in terms of portfolio, at least it does sound like, yeah. Ticker FB, classic metal platforms. Uh, Hardware. I like the idea of hardware companies for virtual reality, for a ancillary haptic technology, et cetera.

Um, and then, uh, I was just going to say, and then, you know, I would probably be keeping a weather eye on, you know, what are the companies providing additional services in within, I mean, who knows maybe consulting firms like Accenture or. Boston consulting. Maybe they're going to jump in and have a, immediately have a virtual office in the metal world.

And they're going to, you know, there could be companies that are very forward minded perhaps, and, uh, jumping into try and create kind of monopolies in the metaverse, which would be very interesting to watch. Yeah, it'll be, it'll be very interesting to watch another one to one another. Kind of long-term play.

I think you could make, if you're, if you're really like me having ethical issues with the whole metal platforms, idea of the metaverse idea, another one, unfortunately you would still be supporting it, but it's tangental is, is a sort of an energy company play or a systems play. Cause again, you need more than just, uh, the hardware behind, you know, VR headsets, right?

You're going to need energy to run this whole. Uh, 24 7, 365. Right. Um, and so that, that's another, another option. Um, I guess I wonder what Facebook is getting used as far as a computing platform. So yeah, I don't know if that's IBM or AWS or Microsoft. I don't know if they partner with them because that's a good point.

They don't really, I mean, they, I think they build their own server farms, but to, to scale something. The metaverse would probably require a partnership with an AWS. Yeah. So that would be something to watch. Um, that, that would definitely be something to watch. And then if, if we're talking a partnership with AWS or, or IBM or Microsoft, then we get into antitrust issues.

Yeah. So, I mean, possibly, uh, so there's, again, a lot of roadblocks along the way, but I think you want, if you're having a trouble with, if you're in trouble, You know, buying, holding Facebook, uh, from an ethical standpoint, there are 10 gentle ways to get exposure to this, uh, this trend without necessarily buying the metaverse platform itself.

So there's, there's always multiple ways to skin a cat, at least exactly. That's what I've been told. I've never done that. Not serious. Yeah. And that's something I want to do. And on that note, we hope you'll you'll join us next time. We will be addressing another topic over the long run, as we always do, trying to turn to break things down and make them, uh, tangible and, and, uh, salient, but looking over the long run as always.

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