Ep. 145 - Baking a Human Behavior Cake with Jack Schafer


Manage episode 292093821 series 34304
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In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by industry professional Jack Schafer, PhD. Dr. Schafer is a psychologist, professor, intelligence consultant, and former FBI Special Agent. Dr. Schafer spent fifteen years conducting counter-intelligence and counterterrorism investigations, and seven years as a behavioral analyst for the FBI's National Security Division's Behavioral Analysis Program. May 10, 2021

00:00 - Intro


Vishing as a Service (VaaS)

Phishing as a Service (PHaaS)

Black Hat

Slack Channel


Innocent Lives Foundation

03:32 - Introduction to Dr. Jack Schafer, PhD.

04:54 - How Jack decided to start training people in his field after retirement

07:46 - Why is rapport building important?

11:49 - How do you stop rapport from being used against you?

13:51 - Explaining “The Truth Bias”

15:37 - Rapport works across different cultures

18:15 - The basic human need to correct other people

19:28 - Integrating the knowledge of that need into work as an FBI agent - “Brian’s Loop”

23:01 - People don’t answer yes or no, they answer Yes+, No+, I Don’t Know+

23:19 - Flattery

25:13 - Roundabout vs Direct Approach

26:45 - The “right” way is the way that works for you

29:58 - The Truth “Default Mode” and breaking the baseline

33:05 - Verbal vs. Non-Verbal Cues

36:19 - Get A Commitment

37:36 - Why does getting a commitment work on humans?

39:50 - The Lip Purse

42:40 - Wrap Up

The Like Switch

The Truth Detector


44:45 - Jack’s Mentors

46:30 - Contact Jack

Jack Schafer on LinkedIn

Email: jackschafer500@yahoo.com

47:06 - Outro

Maxie Reynolds on Twitter

Maxie Reynolds on Instagram

Chris Hadnagy on Twitter

Social-Engineer on Instagram






Social-Engineering Slack Channel


150 episodes