Ep. 147 - Human Element Series - Becoming Ben Franklin with Joe Navarro


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In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by one of our greatest friends and mentors, Joe Navarro. After serving as an FBI agent for 25 years, Joe has become a nonverbal and behavioral expert. Since retiring, he has authored 14 books in 29 languages dealing with human behavior and body language. His book “What Every BODY Is Saying” remains the #1 selling body-language book in the world for over 12 years.  Joe’s new book “Be Exceptional” brings 40 years of his observations and research into one book.

00:00 – Intro




SE Vishing Service

SE Phishing Service

Security Assessments

Certified Training Programs

Adversarial Simulations

Social-Engineer channel on SLACK


June 24th: Chris at Living Security 2nd annual Breaking Security Awareness (digital conference for 2021)

03:54 – Joe Navarro Intro





05:40 – Discussion on Joe’s newest book, “Be Exceptional”. Why a book about being exceptional?

08:41 – Is the writing style in the new book purposely like the others, where you compiled people’s behavior? Did you start writing with this idea, or did the book come about after you had cataloged it all?

13:16 – What is the difference between excellence and perfection?

15:13 – “Whoever provides the most psychological comfort is going to be the soonest winner”

16:23 – Excellence is about experience and the journey

18:34 – How does someone get to the place where they have mastery over their emotions?

22:50 – How do you get people to have self-awareness and humility?

24:05 – Self-Mastery

26:12 – What is the ranking of success, if it’s not “counting possessions”?

28:15 – How much of excellence is habit? Is any of excellence based on genetics?

29:18 – Thoughts on Usain Bolt and other runners achieving excellence

32:44 – Thoughts on Benjamin Franklin achieving excellence

39:42 – “Be Exceptional” comes out June 29, a bit of discussion about book release

41:02 – Wrap Up

How to contact Joe:




Joe Navarro on Twitter: @NavarroTells

42:01 – Favorite Books

The Giving Tree

The Gift of Fear

The Desert Queen

The Power of Myth – Joseph Campbell

Heroditus – The History

44:22 – Joe’s Mentors

Mom, Dad, Grandma 

Jack Schafer 

David Givens 

Gerald Post – CIA 

47:12 – Outro

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150 episodes