Introverts, Extroverts, and Leadership, with Karl Moore

The Sydcast

Episode Summary

Are you an extrovert or an introvert? Karl Moore has interviewed hundreds of CEOs and concluded that many were neither. Or, more precisely, many were both. These “ambiverts,” who were outgoing when the situation called for it, introspective at other times, adjusted to the situation they were in. Which holds a pretty powerful lesson for each of us, whether it is how to communicate more effectively or how to show up at work and at home. Syd and Karl dig into this, and more, in this episode of The Sydcast.

Syd Finkelstein

Syd Finkelstein is the Steven Roth Professor of Management at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College. He holds a Master’s degree from the London School of Economics and a Ph.D. from Columbia University. Professor Finkelstein has published 25 books and 90 articles, including the bestsellers Why Smart Executives Fail and Superbosses: How Exceptional Leaders Master the Flow of Talent, which LinkedIn Chairman Reid Hoffman calls the “leadership guide for the Networked Age.” He is also a Fellow of the Academy of Management, a consultant and speaker to leading companies around the world, and a top 25 on the Global Thinkers 50 list of top management gurus. Professor Finkelstein’s research and consulting work often relies on in-depth and personal interviews with hundreds of people, an experience that led him to create and host his own podcast, The Sydcast, to uncover and share the stories of all sorts of fascinating people in business, sports, entertainment, politics, academia, and everyday life.

Karl Moore

Associate Professor, Desautels Faculty of Management, McGill University

Associate Fellow, Green Templeton College, Oxford University

Prior to his academic career, Dr. Moore worked for eleven years in Canada sales and marketing management positions with IBM, and Hitachi. Before McGill he taught at Oxford University for five years.

He has taught extensively in executive education and MBA programs including at Oxford, Cambridge, Stanford, Harvard, IMD, LBS, INSEAD, Duke, McGill, Bangalore, Renmin (Beijing), and Darden. His publications include +150 articles, and 10 books, with +3,700 Google Scholar citations. His next book, Introverted/Ambiverted/Extroverted Leaders is for Stanford University Press. His research on Quiet Leaders was recently highlighted in the Schumpeter Column of The Economist. He has recently presented his research on Introverts at Harvard Business School, Oxford, and the Stanford Business School.

For nine years, Karl did a weekly video interview for the Globe and Mail called “Talking Management,” where he interviewed CEOs one week and the world’s leading management scholars the other. For 10 years Karl has blogged for Forbes on business and leadership. He hosts a weekly program, “The CEO Series” on CJAD, where he interviews global thought and business leaders one-on-one for an hour. Previous guests include Justin Trudeau, Nobel Prize Winner Muhammed Yunus, and Eileen Murry, co-CEO of Bridgewater Associates. The show appeared as a weekly column for the National Post for two years and is now published in French for Les Affaires. In November of 2020, Karl and Indigenous Graduate Students started a biweekly column for the Globe and Mail, Indigenous Leaders where Wahi and Karl interview an Indigenous Leader in Canada and elsewhere. Karl has interviewed +1,000 CEOs, Prime Ministers, Generals and other senior leaders, among the most in the world, one of the few advantages of age is that you have done it longer than most everyone else.

Karl was nominated for a Thinkers50 Distinguished Achievement Awards in the Leadership Category for his work on introverts/extroverts in the C-Suite & Millennials/Generation Z.

Insights from this episode:

• Differences between Canada and America, their CEOs, and the balancing between self-confidence and humility by leaders.
• Defining an ambivert, explaining extrovert and introvert breaks, and the importance of authenticity.
• Leaders’ and ambiverts’ understanding of how to customize and adjust to the situation around them.
• The issues with implicit bias and the importance of listening to other communities, especially indigenous leaders.
• The character traits and actions needed in becoming a great leader/CEO, interviewing processes, and advice from Karl to the youth.

Quotes from the show:

• “But I think these days in COVID-19, more CEOs in the US around the world are going a little bit more humble mode, but there is still that need for the inspiring leadership of the CEO to say, ‘Ladies and gentlemen, we’re gonna make it through. We have the abilities, the strength, and the wonderful capabilities.’” — Karl Moore [13:52]
• “And so an ambivert is someone who can act like an introvert at times and an extrovert at other times.” — Karl Moore [15:48]
• “So the tendency of an extrovert is to do that, but you might have to fake it till you make it. In the sense that we understand that the right thing is to be more like an introvert and listen…. but we have to bite our tongues.” — Karl Moore [19:08]
• “So you might be a square peg in a round hole…. I kinda found where my personality and who I am fit with the nature of my job, so I think that’s what you want in the medium term to find out where it’s a great fit, but still be flexible on occasion.” — Karl Moore [25:35]
• “The ability to listen and come up with some pretty good questions makes a difference.” — Karl Moore [28:48]
• “How do you know you’re done is when you hear nothing new.” — Karl Moore [36:01]
• On the topic of introversion and extroversion: “And so the key thing is, you have to be just willing. You have to recognize that you can learn this.” — Syd Finkelstein [46:22]
• “Because so many people frame others and categorize others and of course we see that with male/female. We see that with black/white and other kinds of simplifications and as you know it's a very very powerful thing, implicit bias.” — Syd Finkelstein [51:04]
• “But two things strike me is that you gotta deliver, you gotta perform in your earlier job….but you also know how to build networks and work with people effectively.” — Karl Moore [57:42]
• “And part of it is saying, go broad, that specific sets of knowledge are gonna become dated, but the ability to learn and think is good for your life.” — Karl Moore [1:00:03]

Stay Connected:

Syd Finkelstein

Website: http://thesydcast.com

LinkedIn: Sydney Finkelstein

Twitter: @sydfinkelstein

Facebook: The Sydcast

Instagram: The Sydcast

Karl Moore

Website: https://www.mcgill.ca/desautels/karl-moore

Linkedin: Karl Moore

Twitter: @profkjmoore

Forbes: Karl Moore's Blog

SoundCloud: CEO Series

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This episode was produced and managed by Podcast Laundry (www.podcastlaundry.com)