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The Tao of Chao Podcast focuses on contemporary issues, regulations and class action cases impacting pension and defined contribution retirement plan fiduciaries. Philip Chao and his guests will discuss relevant issues that a plan fiduciary should pay attention to and how such challenges are relevant in operating their retirement plans while serving in the sole interest of participants and beneficiaries.
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Fundamentals

Token Terminal

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Fundamentals of the internet-native economy. The world's most valuable companies are born during major platform shifts. We demystify crypto to help you filter the noise.
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In this episode of The Tao of Chao podcast, host Philip Chao switches roles and becomes the guest as he sits down with Bryan Moore for a deep dive into discretionary investment management and the importance of diversification. Philip shares insights into his work advising institutions, including the nuances of behavioral finance and portfolio manag…
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In this episode, we’re joined by Steven Goldfeder, Co-Founder and CEO of Offchain Labs, the team behind Arbitrum. We discuss the launch of Arbitrum Stylus, which significantly broadens the blockchain developer ecosystem by enabling the creation of smart contracts in programming languages that compile to WASM, such as Rust, C, C++, and many others. …
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In this episode, we're joined by Carlos Domingo, Co-Founder and CEO of Securitize – a financial services platform that specializes in the tokenization of real-world assets. We dive into the world of asset tokenization, starting with Securitize’s journey from its founding to its role today as a leader in the space. We break down our framework for as…
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Join us as we sit down with Dr. Andrew Selee, president of the Migration Policy Institute, to discuss the complexities of immigration and migration policies globally, with a special focus on the United States, Latin America, and the Caribbean. Dr. Selee shares insights from his extensive research, the current state of migration, and the impact of i…
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Jeff Schulze of ClearBridge Investments joins us to give an update on the Recession Risk Dashboard and shares which indicators to keep an eye on for next month. He also provides his perspective on the recent selloffs in the equity market and the potential for some choppiness leading up to the US election.…
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In this episode, we’re joined by Jamie Coutts, Chief Crypto Analyst at Real Vision – a financial knowledge and education platform founded in 2014. They share honest financial insights from the smartest industry experts, along with time-efficient market tools, an AI concierge, charting, note-taking, and access to a powerful community of like-minded …
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In this episode, we're joined by Sandeep Nailwal and Marc Boiron from Polygon. We discuss the notion of prediction markets and their increasing relevance in the crypto space, driven by the success of Polymarket. We then focus on both the technological and economic aspects of the evolving blockchain landscape, highlighting AggLayer, Polygon’s soluti…
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In the 20th episode of the Tao of Chao podcast, host Philip Chao sits down with Todd Levy, a Managing Director with The Retirement Plan Company, one of the country’s leading independent providers of account recordkeeping, third-party administration, and actuarial services for qualified retirement plans. They analyze the intricate world of fiduciary…
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In this episode, we’re joined by Cosmo Jiang, Portfolio Manager at Pantera Capital to discuss the details behind Pantera’s largest investment ever, into The Open Network – or TON – the Layer 1 network originally designed by Telegram. We speak about Pantera's long-term approach to fundamentals-based investing, and walk through their typical deal sou…
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In this episode of the Fundamentals Podcast, we’re joined by Zach Pandl, the Head of Research at Grayscale. Zach talks about his career transition from Wall Street to the crypto industry, the compelling reasons behind his move, and his role at Grayscale. Zach outlines the potential of digital assets, driven by large addressable markets, network tec…
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In this episode, we're joined by Unique Divine – Co-Founder and CEO of Nibiru Chain – to dive into the general-purpose L1 blockchain featuring superior throughput potentially exceeding 40k TPS. The discussion covers its core value propositions, including the use of WASM smart contracts, the upcoming high-performance EVM execution layer, and optimiz…
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Michael Underhill, a trained economist, investment strategist, and investor in the infrastructure space, emphasizes the urgency of two crucial policy areas for the future — energy and immigration. Michael and Philip Chao stress the need for a comprehensive energy policy to prepare for increased energy dependence and a coherent immigration policy to…
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In this episode, we’re joined by Christopher Jensen, Director of Digital Asset Research at Franklin Templeton. We speak about Franklin Templeton's fundamentals-driven approach to digital asset investments research, and internal analysis to understand protocols, tokens, and value accrual. Our conversation also touches on client demand, institutional…
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In this episode, we’re joined by Jesse Pollak, the Creator of Base. Our conversation dives into the details behind moving Coinbase onchain, building Base as a ‘company within a company’, and combining the strengths of Coinbase and Optimism to create a global onchain economy. We speak about Base’s lean and engineering-driven team structure, the purp…
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If you are a student of the market and interested in gaining insights into the cyclical and secular landscape, topics that are highly relevant in today's economic climate, please tune in to this episode of Tao of Chao. The world is always uncertain, and Dr. Onsel Gulbiten offers her view on inflation, interest rate risks, and geopolitical challenge…
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Our recent conversation with Matthew Sigel, Head of Digital Assets Research at VanEck, covers the state of Bitcoin ETFs, the growth of the broader Bitcoin ecosystem, understanding value accrual, differences in VanEck’s valuation models for Ethereum and Solana, the pros and cons of onchain data, key line items in blockchain P&Ls, and more. VanEck is…
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Continued progress in the ClearBridge Recession Risk Dashboard saw the wage growth indicator move from red to yellow. Jeff Schulze of ClearBridge Investments shares his views on what that move could mean for investors, how many Fed rate cuts we may see this year, and the potential market implications of the upcoming US presidential election.…
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“Personalization” in defined contribution retirement arrangements such as 401(k), 403(b), and 457 plans continues to gain momentum. This is not a fad or a marketing slogan. It is real and does improve outcomes. One way or another, personalization has seeped into our lives by suggesting entertainment, improving comfort in automobiles, saving time in…
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Jeff Schulze, Head of Economic and Market Strategy at ClearBridge Investments, joins us to discuss the updated ClearBridge Recession Risk Dashboard, which has seen some progress underneath the surface despite not having any indicator changes. And, he shares his views on US equities and the impact of the Magnificent Seven.…
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In this episode of the Fundamentals podcast, we’re joined by Ryan Rasmussen, Senior Crypto Research Analyst at Bitwise – The world's largest crypto index fund manager. Make sure to leave a comment if you have any questions 🙌12 Real-World Stories of How Millions of People Are Using Crypto Services Today: https://bitwiseinvestments.com/crypto-market-…
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Tune in as Bloomberg and onchain data provider Token Terminal explore the relatively uncharted territory of onchain data. The team will talk about the sources and interpretation of this emerging form of financial data, it's unique characteristics, and how it fits into investor analysis.Participants can expect to depart the 30-minute webinar with a …
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The Department of Labor has once again proposed changes to The Fiduciary Rule to expand fiduciary application to those selling investing products and delivering advice to retirement plans. Kevin Walsh, a legal expert in this matter joins Philip Chao to discuss the reasons behind the push and what the DOL is trying to accomplish. There is no questio…
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In the latest release of the ClearBridge Recession Risk Dashboard, we’ve seen that a particular indicator upgrade was enough to change the overall dashboard—going from red recession to yellow caution—the first time that it’s been yellow since August of 2022. We speak with Jeff Schulze of ClearBridge Investments about this change and his current bas…
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Chinese Americans quickly learn that there are cultural differences between the Eastern and Western business worlds. Today's guest is our bridge between the two. In this podcast episode, Philip Chao interviews Joy Chen, CEO of the Multicultural Leadership Institute. They discuss the importance of cross-cultural communication and the impact of cultu…
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In this episode of the Fundamentals podcast, we’re joined by Bryan Pellegrino, the Co-Founder and CEO of LayerZero Labs – the team behind the LayerZero – an interoperability protocol that connects blockchains (50+ and counting).In this episode with Bryan, we discuss what LayerZero's core value proposition is, and why interoperability is important f…
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In today’s episode, we’re joined by Arthur Breitman, the Co-Founder of Tezos, a layer 1 blockchain. In this episode, we focus on what sets Tezos apart from other blockchains on the market, and how they stack up in terms of performance, network activity, economics, and more. We speak about the network's current use cases, and vision for the future.A…
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Join us to hear why investing in Bitcoin ETF's is all the rage. Get the insights with one of world's largest asset managers, Franklin Templeton, and their experts on ETF's and Digital Assets, David Mann, and Sandy Kaul. They launched their spot Bitcoin ETF in January and explain why it is convenient and easy to get the exposure to this popular asse…
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In this episode of the Fundamentals podcast, I’m joined by Michael Nadeau, a crypto data and research analyst, and founder of the DeFi report. In this episode with Michael, we explore his recent report on zkSync, and dive into the breadth of data available on Token Terminal to assess its position within the market. We discuss the impressive growth …
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In today’s episode, we’re joined by Kenny Li, the Co-Founder of Manta Network, the modular ecosystem for ZK applications. Manta offers two networks, Manta Pacific, the first EVM-equivalent ZK-application platform that is scalable and secure through Celestia DA and Polygon zkEVM - and Manta Atlantic which is a ZK L1 chain on Polkadot.In this episode…
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In this episode, we’re joined by Martin Leinweber, Digital Asset Strategist at MarketVector, for an insightful discussion on digital asset indexing. MarketVector and Token Terminal have been working together to provide institutions, advisors, and investors with access to investable products that track the breadth of data available in web3 and on bl…
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In this episode, we're joined by Devin Walsh, Co-Founder of the Uniswap Foundation. We dive into the Uniswap ecosystem, discussing the Foundation’s mission, its short- and long-term goals, and how the Uniswap Foundation is allocating capital via grants.We speak about the significance of Uniswap V4, and Hooks, the protocol pushes forward in becoming…
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In this episode, were joined by Adeniyi, the Co-Founder and CPO of Mysten Labs – the team behind the Sui blockchain. We dive into the intricacies of the Sui blockchain and how it is designed to achieve unprecedented levels of scalability and user experience. We explore Sui's unique technical architecture, their focus on user-centered product design…
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In this episode, we’re joined by Alex Wettermann, the Head of Gaming at Shima Capital – an early stage VC firm investing in disruptive web3 companies. Alex gives us an overview of the current state of the web3 gaming market, and walk us through the key trends, challenges and potential opportunities within the space. Alex highlights the importance o…
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In today's episode, we’re joined by Evgeny Gokhberg – the founder of Re7 Capital – a fund that specializes in DeFi R&D and liquid crypto investment strategies. We delve into the vast arena of DeFi, exploring everything from generating yield to managing risks. We discuss the intrinsic value of crypto, how investors should approach valuing multidimen…
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Welcome to Tao of Chao, where we explore some of the most important topics in finance and economics. Join Philip Chao as he welcomes Peter Scoblic to explore the fascinating world of strategic foresight. Peter is the co-founder, and principal of Event Horizon Strategies. Peter is also a professor at Georgetown University and Harvard’s Development P…
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In this episode, we’re joined by Viktor Fischer, the Founder and CEO of RockawayX – a product VC building and investing in the Web3 space. Over the next hour, we dive into the details around the current state of the crypto market, RockawayX's unique position as builders, and users, in addition to being investors. We speak about the differences betw…
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In this episode of the Fundamentals podcast, Michael Kong, CEO/CIO of the Fantom Foundation, discusses the unique value proposition of Fantom within the blockchain landscape, its core technology, and approach to achieving scalability. We explore the structure of the blockchain market sector, how Michael sees it developing, and where Fantom fits int…
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On this episode of the Fundamentals podcast, we welcome back Michael Nadeau, who runs the DeFi Report, to deepen our understanding of valuing blockchain networks. Michael has been working on deep-diving into this topic for several years and has recently published the 'Ethereum Investment Framework'. He discusses why he was inspired to create the fr…
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Welcome to Tao of Chao, where we explore some of the most important topics in finance and economics. Join Philip Chao as he welcomes Elliot Hentov back for an important discussion on Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC). Elliot is the head of macro policy research and chief geopolitical strategist at State Street Global Advisors, so he's got a uniq…
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In this episode of the Fundamentals podcast, we’re joined by Alex, the Co-Founder and CEO of Matter Labs – the engineering team behind zkSync – a Layer-2 blockchain protocol that scales Ethereum with zero knowledge technology.In this episode with Alex, we discuss what zkSync’s core value proposition is, and why zero-knowledge proofs are the most vi…
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Welcome to Tao of Chao! Join us for this episode where Philip Chao sits down with Alona Gornick, managing director, senior investment strategist, and co-head of the Chicago office for Churchill Asset Management. Tune in as they discuss private credit and hear Alona's insights on this powerful complement to traditional fixed-income strategies. Don't…
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