In this episode, Ben Blaisdell (East Carolina University, Kevin's department-mate) talks about critical race theory (CRT) and its applicability to k-12 education. Ben's research and work in schools relies heavily on critical race frameworks, and at a time where people are so polarized about CRT, Ben explains what it is, what it's not, what critics …

In this conversation, I talk with higher education anthropologist Susan Blum (Notre Dame) about her work on how students experience higher education. We also talk about an essay collection she recently edited called Ungrading: Why Rating Students Undermines Learning (and What To Do Instead). 0:58 - How Students Navigate and Experience School; It Ai…

Kevin talks with Samantha Hedges (Heterodox Academy, Substack) about recent articles she has written criticizing critical-race-influenced approaches to diversity and equity training in schools. They talk about why Samantha believes that these trainings inadvertently stoke racial division as well as the possibility of an alternative "common humanity…

Kevin Currie-Knight (East Carolina University) and David Labaree (Professor Emeritus, Stanford University) talk about the history and meaning of academic freedom. They talk about whether there has ever been a “golden age” where academics were safe to be heterodox (no), and what academic freedom means in an age of social media and the in-group polic…

Robert Gressis (California State Northridge) and Kevin Currie-Knight (East Carolina University) hae a wide-ranging conversation about the (fraught?) relationship between schooling, learning, and A-F grading. The discussion centers around an essay Currie-Knight wrote called Against the Grade Economy: https://theelectricagora.com/2020/12/... 00:02:36…

This episode's guest is not normal... and that is a GREAT thing. Jonathan Mooney is an author, speaker, entrepreneur, and activist within the disability rights community. Before all that, he was a kid struggling in school with various diagnosed disabilities, told that he just wasn't normal. Today we talk about his recent book Normal Sucks, where he…

Listeners know today’s guest well. She’s Gina Riley, the co-host of this podcast. Gina is an educational psychologist, a Clinical Professor in the Adolescent Special Education Program at CUNY – Hunter College and, of course, she has a big interest in unschooling, even having written a book called Unschooling: Learning Beyond the Classroom. Today, w…

In this episode, I talk with Education Professor Doris Santoro about why teachers leave the profession. She distinguishes between teacher burnout and teacher demoralization and argues that, if we want to counteract the persisting and large teacher attrition problems, we need to treat these as different sets of reasons. We also talk more generally a…

On this episode, Gina interviews the show's co-host, Kevin Currie-Knight, about his experience with self-directed learning. Kevin is a professor in East Carolina University's College of Education where he teaches future teachers. But he teaches in a way that leans heavily on self-directed learning where students have control over what to learn, how…

On this episode, I talk with Richard Rothstein (Economic Policy Institute) about his book Color of Law: The Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America. While the book is not about education, Rothstein’s research is an outgrowth of prior research on racial disparities in education. In the book, Rothstein tells the story of how govern…

On this episode, Robert Pondiscio (Fordham Institute, author of How the Other Half Learns) discusses his experience writing about the Harlem Success Academy Charter School in the South Bronx. He spent a year immersed in this school and came away with some interesting insights - both praise and concern - about what life is like at this charter schoo…

In this episode, we talk to Xaq Rzetelny. Xaq is a grown unschooler, science writer, and communicator of science focusing on astrophysics. He's also been a radio host and most recently, a performer at Liberty Science Center's Jennifer Chalsty Planetarium, the largest in the Western Hemisphere. Gina and Kevin sat down with Xaq to talk about the tran…

In this episode, I talk with teacher-turned-psychologist K. Ann Renninger to talk about the psychology of human interest. How do learners (and people in general) become interested in something? Is interest 'hardwired' and hard to change, or can teachers influence what learners are interested in? How can teachers make subjects more interesting for s…

On this episode, we talk with historical sociologist David Labaree (Stanford University, Professor Emeritus) about the evolution of school in the United States and how that impacts what we think about school. What is the purpose - or really, are the purposes - of school? Why do we ensure that all kids learn a lot of things in common, whether they w…

Today’s guest, Dr. Kate Green, has five very successful, alternatively educated young adult and teen children of her own. She also loves working as an educational consultant, to help other families make decisions that enable their children to joyfully excel. Kate, Gina, and I talked about what it is like to raise FIVE unschooled - or maybe worldsch…

Since doing this podcast, one thing Gina and I have noticed about self-directed learning is that people who undertake it in their formative years develop a really strong sense of self - the kind of sense of self that is unafraid to take on any limits around them. That's definitely true of today's guest, Ki Aoaygi. Ki discovered self-directed learni…

This episode’s guest has been advising teens to opt out of school for over two decades now. Ken Danford used to be a middle school teacher, but once he discovered self-directed learning, he co-founded the North Star Learning Center for Teens, a space where teenagers have control of their time and learning. Twenty some years later, North Star is thr…

What happens when kids rule the school? Well, that - When Kids Rule the School - is the title of a recent book by today’s guest, Jim Rietmulder. Jim is is a founding staff member at The Circle School in Pennsylvania, which is among the oldest self-directed democratic schools, where kids really do rule the school. They choose what they want to do wi…

On this episode, we are joined by Robin Alpern, a 65-year-old white woman who narrowly missed a career as an elementary school teacher. Instead, she and her former husband unschooled their four children to college. This was largely in the 1990’s, and since there weren’t many resources for unschoolers, Robin co-founded the Tri-County Homeschoolers n…

Our guest for this episode has worked as a research fellow at the Environmental Protection Agency, and will soon be working toward her PhD in microbiology at Dartmouth College. But her first day of school was at the age of 14, when she decided to attend a public high school after being homeschooled without any formal curriculum. Today, we talk with…

Our guest today, Hope Wilder is the founder of Pathfinder Community School, a learning community where kids truly learn by living. A lifelong learner herself, Hope had an accelerated experience of the public school system, graduating from the University of South Carolina at the age of 19 with degrees in Biology and German. For the dozen years befor…

Our guest on this episode, Bria Bloom, has seen self-directed learning from two perspectives. Bria is a born and raised unschooler who now has the daily joy of parenting a self-directed learner. She is also a passionate advocate for self-directed education and young people's rights, and channels this into her work with various organizations includi…

How do self-directed teens prepare for adult life? What is the value of allowing teens to “do nothing” with their time? Today, we talk with Katy Burke, a former public school teacher of 11 years who, frustrated with standardized testing, gave up teaching in a conventional school and found work in the Princeton Learning Cooperative. There, she helps…

Entrepreneur, disability rights activist, and advocate of self-directed learning. Our guest today, Jim Flannery, is all of these. Jim is a former high school physics teacher who now advocates for self-directed learning and is the creator of the Peer Unschooling Network, a digital community for young self-directed learners. His latest project is an …

Current studies report that around 50% of public school teachers leave the profession entirely within their first five years. Our guest today, Cassidy Younghans, taught 7th grade English in a public school for 5 years before leaving school teaching and finding a more fulfilling, way to work with young people, shifting her path towards Self-Directed…

While teaching in a conventional school, David Lane has found ways to bring the power of self-directed learning to learners both in and out of school settings. Years ago, he co-created the now defunct Ingenuity Hub, an self-directed alternative to school. He has also taught a self-directed high school class where students decided what and how they …

n this episode, Gina and Kevin sit down with author, podcaster, and unschooler of two, Akilah Richards. We have a wide-ranging conversation about what motivated Akilah and her family to unschool, what learning looks like when decoupled from compulsory school, the promise of unschooling for people-of-color communities, and much more. 2:58 - How Akil…

Over a recent holiday vacation, Kevin caught up with relatives of his about their experience unschooling. This family, with kids ranging in age from 7 months to twelve years, came upon unschooling almost by accident. They originally set out to homeschool their children, but noticed that the children learned much more by following their passions. Wi…

DESCRIPTION: Lainie Liberti and her son Miro Siegel join us on this episode to talk about worldschooling. 11 years ago, Lainie and Miro hit the road for what was supposed to be a one year adventure. Ever since, Lainie and Miro have been traveling slowly around the globe and learning from the world rather than from school. They join us to talk about…

What does it look like when teens get the freedom to direct their own learning in a conventional school? On this episode, we find out by talking to Mike Powell, a guidance counselor at Monument Mountain High School in Western Massachusetts. Mike has served as a long-time faculty advisory to the Independent Project, a student-run program that allows…

Matthew Gioia is a long-time staff member at the Hudson Valley Sudbury School, and before that, was a middle school teacher. On this episode, we talk to Matthew about the kinds of learning by living he sees at HVSS, how the school works, and the different experiences of teaching middle school and supporting students at HVSS. 1:42 - Matt’s Experienc…

Jason Kuznicki and his 11-year-old daughter Allie Starin talk about transitioning from a conventional to a Sudbury school, from the decision process to the differences in Allie from then to now. Jason Kuznicki 1:46 - The decision to remove Allie from conventional school and place her in a Sudbury school. "We decided 'Okay, this is enough.'" 8:04 - …

Kerry McDonald is an education journalist and a parent of four children who learn outside of conventional schools (ages 13, 10, 8, and 5). On this episode, we talk about the diversity of ways Kerry’s children learn, and the advantages and challenges of self-directed education. 1:06 - Kerry McDonald Introduction: “My children have never been to scho…

In this episode, we talk to Ben Riley (and his mother Gina, cohost of this show) to talk about Ben's experience growing and learning as an unschooler. Table of Contents: 1:45 - Why Unschooling: “I didn’t want there to be timetables.” 8:23 - Developing Passions: “I just wanted to know what all these things are made of.” 12:11 - Learning to Read: “It…

What is the Learning by Living Podcast? In our premier episode, Gina Riley (Hunter College) and Kevin Currie-Knight (East Carolina University) discuss why they are doing a podcast telling stories of people who learn outside of conventional schools, tell their own stories of coming to self-directed education, and preview the first several episodes. …