Not Only, But Also examines the beauty and tension of the in-between spaces many of us occupy. Each episode, your hosts Renee and Nicole discuss living and being free in the spaces of both/and. Together, Renee and Nicole are rabble-rousers but also peacekeepers, happy wives yet also feminists, strong yet gentle, mothers but also business owners, faithful Christ-followers but staunchly anti-religion-and that's just the beginning. Quite simply, they are not only what others might assume, but a ...
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It’s a NOBA first! In part two of a two-part series, Renee and Nicole welcome special guests Gregory and Jonathan—their husbands. In a fun, but also serious, conversation, the couples share how they’ve loved and fought their way through 15-plus years of marriage. They also realize how much each other is a lot like the person they married. Intro mus…
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It’s a NOBA first! In part one of a two-part series, Renee and Nicole welcome special guests Gregory and Jonathan—their husbands. In a fun, but also serious, conversation, the couples share how they’ve loved and fought their way through 15-plus years of marriage. They also realize how much each other is a lot like the person they married. Intro mus…
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In part 2 of Friends, but also Sisters, Renee and Nicole continue their discussion on all things friendship, including red flags and green flags in relationships, as well as more of their own friendship story. With candor, vulnerability, and humor they share how to engage your friends, fight for your friendships, and be the best BFF ever. Intro mus…
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Why is making and keeping friends so difficult? What constitutes a healthy friendship? What are friendship red flags? In this episode, part 1 of 2, Renee and Nicole tackle these questions and more from friends, besties, frenemies, and the ever-evasive “sister” relationship. With candor, vulnerability, and humor they share their own friendship story…
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In conclusion of their 2-part discussion on whiteness and colorism, Renee and Nicole continue to share personal and cultural stories around this topic to reveal how, too often, cultural standards of “beauty” impact the most vulnerable so those in power can remain in power. Mentioned in this episode: - Woke Racism by John McWhorter Intro music “Bhan…
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In Part 1 of a 2-part series on whiteness and colorism, Renee and Nicole define these terms and discuss how they might appear in different societies to the exclusion and oppression of people with darker skin tones. They share personal and cultural stories around this topic to reveal how, too often, cultural standards of “beauty” often impact the mo…
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Renee and Nicole are back with their first ever shoot-the-breeze-episode, in which you are invited into their back-and-forth of trying to figure out this week’s topic. They end up discussing mentoring, heaven and hell, Oprah, and justice, among other things...including Renee discovering that she prefers monogamy. Welcome to the process. Special app…
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Kid talk, but also real talk: Part 2
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In part 2 of having conversations with kids about real issues, Renee and Nicole discuss the ongoing dialogues they have with their children about race and racism. Whether it’s sorting out identity, understanding cultural concepts, or navigating complex interactions, they share their own stories of how they’ve been learning as they go, alongside the…
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NOBA episodes have tackled big questions, but what about when it’s time to speak to your children about certain issues? In this episode, Part 1 of 2 on talking to children about sex and racism, Renee and Nicole share insights and personal anecdotes on how to speak to kids about sex, addressing consent, masturbation, and shame. Mentioned in this epi…
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Spiritual abuse, but also murder, espionage, and orgies: Part 2
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What do spiritual abuse, murder, espionage and orgies have in common? Listen to Part 2 as Renee and Nicole unravel this mystery, and more, with their usual humor and personal insight—as they discuss the forms spiritual abuse takes and how God is leading people forward to wholeness and hope. Mentioned in this episode: -Jawaharlal Nehru, delivering h…
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Spiritual abuse, but also murder, espionage, and orgies: Part 1
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What do spiritual abuse, murder, espionage and orgies have in common? Listen as Renee and Nicole unravel this mystery, and more, with their usual humor and personal insight—as they discuss the forms spiritual abuse takes and how God is leading people forward to wholeness and hope. Mentioned in this episode: -Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse: Cr…
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Deconstructing, but also reconstructing: Part 2
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In part two of their honest conversation about deconstruction, Renee and Nicole conclude by offering hope for those who are ready to reconstruct. Although they offer no pat answers or simple solutions, their insights and stories demonstrate the value—and necessity—of moving away from forced religion and walking toward authentic faith. Intro music “…
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Deconstructing, but also reconstructing: Part 1
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Through their own personal deconstruction stories and experience from within the church, Renee and Nicole have a candid conversation about faith deconstruction. But they don’t stop there. Instead, they offer insight, empathy, and hope for those finding their way forward, while also dismantling what needs to be left behind. Intro music “Bhangra, but…
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Renee and Nicole continue answering audience questions, which include their views on people who choose not to have children, tapping into the spirit world and conjuring the dead, white supremacy at the Olympics, their favorite hobbies, and their career trajectories. It really is the everything, and even more. WATCH THIS EPISODE ON YOUTUBE: https://…
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Renee and Nicole answer audience questions, including inclusion within the church, their decisions on how to school their children, and what they love and hate about their Enneagram types. WATCH THIS EPISODE ON YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/bIiC7CxBd-c Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” and outro by Gregory Kyle Klug https://gregorykyle.com/…
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Body insecurity, but also confidence: Part 2
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Body image, self esteem, negative messages, and our relationship with food are all up for discussion in part 2 of Body insecurity, but also confidence. In this episode, Renee and Nicole continue to speak vulnerably about the tension between these ideas and how health often doesn't look like what we think it will. TW: eating disorders Intro music “B…
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Body insecurity, but also confidence: Part 1
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Our relationship with our bodies is always changing. We often move from loving them to seeing them as a frenemy to betraying them daily. In this episode, Renee and Nicole discuss the topic of body image and how theirs has shifted over the years. They discuss childhood messages, media, and abuse and how each of those contributed to their view of the…
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The orgasm gap, but also pleasure: Part 2
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Get ready for more titillating and arousing conversation, as Renee and Nicole continue with part 2 of "The Orgasm Gap." In this episode they discuss shame, self-pleasuring, science, and all the bits in between-and offer practical ideas on how to close the gap and get more "OH’S" in your life. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” and outro by Gregor…
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The orgasm gap, but also pleasure: Part 1
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Let's talk about sex, baby. But more specifically, let's talk about the ever elusive, but always welcome, orgasm and why the "orgasm gap" exists. In this rousing and titillating episode, Renee and Nicole break down the reasons for the orgasm gap, but more importantly what you can do to enjoy sex more and how to close the gap. They share ideas on ho…
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Boundaries, but also expanses: Part 2
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In part 2 of their discussion on boundaries, Renee and Nicole tackle the meaty topics of setting boundaries with parents, around politics, with significant others, children, and within the church. Whew. They also discuss the best boundary-setter of all: Jesus. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” and outro by Gregory Kyle Klug https://gregorykyle.c…
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In part 1 of a two-part discussion, Renee and Nicole break down the need for boundaries and how setting them is an act of self-compassion. They talk setting boundaries with parents, within the church, and in toxic relationships. Be warned: we use a lot of explicit language in this one. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” and outro by Gregory Kyle …
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Traditional church, but also organic church
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Does how we gather or where we gather as Christians matter? Is it possible to live a Christian church life modeled after the book of Acts? In this episode, Renee and Nicole discuss their own personal church expression: organic church and how it's changed the way they think of "church." They talk pastors, leadership, raising up children, and the mes…
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In a NOBA first, Renee and Nicole respond directly to a current cultural event—the Atlanta shootings, which took the lives of six Asian women. In this episode, they dismantle the arguments and defenses given for such an atrocity, while underscoring the need to face such lies head on in order to preserve truth and honor the victims. Intro music “Bha…
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The conversation around diversity has been ongoing, spurred on by the events of 2020. But what should diversity in the church look like and why is it so difficult to achieve? In this episode, Renee and Nicole address these questions, and more, with their usual honesty and humor—with a declaration of whose responsibility this work truly is. Intro mu…
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Prayer, and its practice, is a common conversation in Christian circles. But what about hearing from God? In this episode, Renee and Nicole share how they each hear from God, as well as some of the unique, unexpected, even supernatural ways God has communicated with them. Because discerning how God speaks can be just as important as praying. Intro …
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Believers have a long, weird history with therapy, or really their lack of therapy. But why? In this episode, Renee and Nicole discuss some of the lies and misconceptions around Christians and therapy. And instead, they offer a refreshing, funny, honest view of the need for therapy and how it can actually complement, not hinder, your faith. Intro m…
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How can we be adopted into God's family, but often find ourselves searching for a place to call home? In this episode, Renee and Nicole discuss the often difficult tension between being a faith-filled person who longs for a faith-filled community—and how it can look differently than we might have imagined. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” by Gr…
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There's excitement in looking to the future with all the hope a new year can bring. But there's also value in taking stock of what we've learned from the previous year. In this episode, Renee and Nicole do both as they discuss the impact of 2020 and how it changed them and us all, but also how it exposed the promise of what's to come. Intro music “…
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Many times we are told we need to "wait on the Lord," or "be still." But what about the times we have to grab hold of our faith and push forward? In this episode, Renee and Nicole discuss when to move and when to pause and how both are faith-filled. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” by Gregory Kyle Klug https://gregorykyle.com/…
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Why doesn't Mary—the brave, bold mama of Jesus—get much airplay in the American church? Renee and Nicole discuss the dichotomy of a common everyday girl being the favored one, and how that invitation is extended to each of us. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” by Gregory Kyle Klug https://gregorykyle.com/…
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In this episode, Renee and Nicole tackle the sometimes controversial and nuanced topic of "purity culture" and how it's affected their own views on sex and what it means to be "pure". Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” by Gregory Kyle Klug https://gregorykyle.com/By Renee Ronika Bhatti-Klug, Nicole Cottrell
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In this episode, Renee and Nicole discuss their dealings with autoimmune diseases. Despite the experienced pains of their infirmities, a healthy dose of the good medicine of laughter takes its effect in the conversation. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” by Gregory Kyle Klug https://gregorykyle.com/…
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In this episode, Renee and Nicole offer up some much needed levity and discuss the ever-popular topic of the enneagram. But in doing so, they challenge the stereotypes that exist around personality tests. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” by Gregory Kyle Klug https://gregorykyle.com/By Renee Ronika Bhatti-Klug, Nicole Cottrell
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In this episode, Renee and Nicole share their personal stories of doubt in the midst of faith and how the two are linked in discovering true knowing. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” by Gregory Kyle Klug https://gregorykyle.com/By Renee Ronika Bhatti-Klug, Nicole Cottrell
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In this episode, Renee and Nicole discuss one of their most controversial topics to date: President Trump. With openness and humor, they recount their personal stories of how they have seen the world differently since the 2016 presidential election to now, on the eve of one of the most contentious elections in history. Intro music “Bhangra, but als…
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In this episode, Renee and Nicole tackle the ever-so-emotionally-complicated topic of motherhood. With six children between them, they honestly discuss the pressures, temptations and beauty of mothering, but also the fact that it's okay if being a mother is not your lifelong dream...and how the both/and can carry you through. Intro music “Bhangra, …
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In this episode, Renee and Nicole open up the conversation of what it means to be a wife. They discuss the often-tenuous yet always-beautiful relationship between being married to someone, but still being an individual within that relationship. How do you live as “one” and still honor your unique self? Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” by Gregor…
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In the first-ever episode of Not Only, But Also, Renee and Nicole introduce themselves, discuss their experiences growing up bi-racial, and share how this in-between space, representing two different cultures, helped shape their view of themselves and the world. Intro music “Bhangra, but also jazz” by Gregory Kyle Klug https://gregorykyle.com/…
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