Travel Writer, Essayist, Adventurer, Teacher
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Rolf Potts veers off-topic in this unique series of conversations with experts, public figures, and intriguing people.
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Here on the Ethical Traveler podcast, we’ll bring you interviews with writers, artists, and adventurers, music from all over the world, fascinating news, even a weekly contest. We’ll give you tips on the best places to travel, and chats with people who are doing fantastic things for the planet. And we’ll let you know how you can get involved.
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Walk and Talk: Notes from a peripatetic salon across northern Thailand
1:09:30
1:09:30
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“Something about the motion of walking is conducive to generating both ideas and conversation. You can empty your mind and open your mind at the same time.”—Kevin Kelly In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reports from a “Walk and Talk” across northern Thailand. Interviewees and conversation topics are listed by time-code below. Participant write-ups a…
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Essential tips and strategies for telling travel stories, with Andrew McCarthy
58:23
58:23
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“We ‘massage’ the truth to make it fit the narrative we need it to fit in our lives.” –Andrew McCarthy In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about how Andrew got started in travel writing, and how writing himself on the page helped him see himself in the world (2:30); when he does and doesn’t conflate certain details in the interest of a…
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Essential tips and strategies for telling travel stories, with Andrew McCarthy
58:23
58:23
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58:23
“We ‘massage’ the truth to make it fit the narrative we need it to fit in our lives.” –Andrew McCarthy In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about how Andrew got started in travel writing, and how writing himself on the page helped him see himself in the world (2:30); when he does and doesn’t conflate certain details in the interest of a…
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What it’s like to spend a full year traveling within a day’s radius of your home
57:12
57:12
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“Unless we explore our neighborhood, we can’t imagine what might be right under our noses, nor be able to celebrate it, mourn its demise, or take action.” –Alastair Humphreys In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair Humphreys discuss the concept of his new book Local: A Search for Nearby Nature and Wilderness (1:30); what Alastair found on his…
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What it’s like to spend a full year traveling within a day’s radius of your home
57:12
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“Unless we explore our neighborhood, we can’t imagine what might be right under our noses, nor be able to celebrate it, mourn its demise, or take action.” –Alastair Humphreys In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair Humphreys discuss the concept of his new book Local: A Search for Nearby Nature and Wilderness (1:30); what Alastair found on his…
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Sports, superstitions, and sacraments: A Deviate Super Bowl Special (2024 remix)
1:24:47
1:24:47
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“I hate the Kansas City Chiefs with a passion reserved only for things that I love.” —Tod Goldberg In this episode of Deviate, Rolf shares his 2002 NPR “Savvy Traveler” dispatch about trying to watch the Super Bowl in Thailand (3:00); then he and Tod Goldberg discuss how they became NFL football fans as kids in the 1970s, and how this affected thei…
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Sports, superstitions, and sacraments: A Deviate Super Bowl Special (2024 remix)
1:24:47
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“I hate the Kansas City Chiefs with a passion reserved only for things that I love.” —Tod Goldberg In this episode of Deviate, Rolf shares his 2002 NPR “Savvy Traveler” dispatch about trying to watch the Super Bowl in Thailand (3:00); then he and Tod Goldberg discuss how they became NFL football fans as kids in the 1970s, and how this affected thei…
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Tim Ferriss and Rolf discuss travel, time wealth, and “success management”
2:08:27
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“Billionaires can’t take a week off? What’s the point of having a billion dollars if they have fewer options than I do?” –Tim Ferriss In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss common travel fantasies, and the fears that keep people from traveling (5:00); how we can redefine what “wealth” is and live fuller lives (18:00); why keeping a health…
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Tim Ferriss and Rolf discuss travel, time wealth, and “success management”
2:08:27
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“Billionaires can’t take a week off? What’s the point of having a billion dollars if they have fewer options than I do?” –Tim Ferriss In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss common travel fantasies, and the fears that keep people from traveling (5:00); how we can redefine what “wealth” is and live fuller lives (18:00); why keeping a health…
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The best journeys explore mindscapes as well as landscapes (book club remix)
41:56
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“Sometimes it’s good to sit still and let a place move through you instead of you moving through a place.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how one can be vulnerable to new experiences on the road instead of micromanaging an itinerary (2:00); how monuments to mortality help us think …
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The best journeys explore mindscapes as well as landscapes (book club remix)
41:56
41:56
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41:56
“Sometimes it’s good to sit still and let a place move through you instead of you moving through a place.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how one can be vulnerable to new experiences on the road instead of micromanaging an itinerary (2:00); how monuments to mortality help us think …
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Going abroad for love, and travel writing that says something new about a place
35:40
35:40
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“When asked to give advice to young people looking to become travel writers, I invariably tell them to go – alone – and live in a country where they don’t speak the language.” –Thomas Swick In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom talk about the thematic limitations of memoir writing, and the early stages of Tom’s career as a journalist (2:00); his…
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Going abroad for love, and travel writing that says something new about a place
35:40
35:40
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35:40
“When asked to give advice to young people looking to become travel writers, I invariably tell them to go – alone – and live in a country where they don’t speak the language.” –Thomas Swick In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom talk about the thematic limitations of memoir writing, and the early stages of Tom’s career as a journalist (2:00); his…
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Seek places where your very presence makes you interesting (book club redo)
27:56
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27:56
“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate – which is a redo of episode 229, which didn’t air properly due to technical probl…
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Seek places where your very presence makes you interesting (book club redo)
27:56
27:56
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27:56
“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate – which is a redo of episode 229, which didn’t air properly due to technical probl…
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Travel memoir lab: Truth, luck, & multi-genre storytelling (with Tom Bissell)
58:13
58:13
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58:13
“Not everyone who’s lucky is talented and not everyone who’s talented is lucky.” –Tom Bissell In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom talk about Tom’s lack of travel experience when he joined the Peace Corps, and how he dealt with his early failures (2:30); the role that luck (as well as craft and obsessive reading) has played in his writing caree…
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Travel memoir lab: Truth, luck, & multi-genre storytelling (with Tom Bissell)
58:13
58:13
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“Not everyone who’s lucky is talented and not everyone who’s talented is lucky.” –Tom Bissell In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom talk about Tom’s lack of travel experience when he joined the Peace Corps, and how he dealt with his early failures (2:30); the role that luck (as well as craft and obsessive reading) has played in his writing caree…
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1
Seek places where your very presence makes you interesting (book club remix)
27:05
27:05
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27:05
“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how to break out of st…
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1
Seek places where your very presence makes you interesting (book club remix)
27:05
27:05
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27:05
“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how to break out of st…
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Vagabonding audio companion: A life in (and philosophy of) long-term travel
39:32
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“One ironic anxiety of travel is that suddenly you’re living in ‘organic time’ and you’re not used to it.” –Rolf Potts In this “vagabonding audio companion” episode of Deviate, remixed from Aaron Millar’s Armchair Explorer podcast, Rolf talks about his earliest travel dreams, and what compelled him to finally take a vagabonding dream trip around No…
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Vagabonding audio companion: A life in (and philosophy of) long-term travel
39:32
39:32
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“One ironic anxiety of travel is that suddenly you’re living in ‘organic time’ and you’re not used to it.” –Rolf Potts In this “vagabonding audio companion” episode of Deviate, remixed from Aaron Millar’s Armchair Explorer podcast, Rolf talks about his earliest travel dreams, and what compelled him to finally take a vagabonding dream trip around No…
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A train isn’t just a vehicle; it’s a place (a remix encore, with Monisha Rajesh)
58:46
58:46
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“A wonderful aspect of traveling by train is the transactional relationship between passengers who feed off one another, picking up tips, offering advice, guarding each other’s belongings, and generating a trust that is unique to railway travel.” –Monisha Rajesh In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Monisha discuss how her interest in train-travel d…
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A train isn’t just a vehicle; it’s a place (a remix encore, with Monisha Rajesh)
58:46
58:46
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“A wonderful aspect of traveling by train is the transactional relationship between passengers who feed off one another, picking up tips, offering advice, guarding each other’s belongings, and generating a trust that is unique to railway travel.” –Monisha Rajesh In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Monisha discuss how her interest in train-travel d…
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Travelers experience more when they slow down and ask lots of questions
36:05
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36:05
“We live in an age where you can take a series short flights inside a country to speed things up. You end up going to more places, but you experience less, because you’re not really committed to that chicken bus full of really interesting people who want nothing more than to interact with you.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The V…
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Travelers experience more when they slow down and ask lots of questions
36:05
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36:05
“We live in an age where you can take a series short flights inside a country to speed things up. You end up going to more places, but you experience less, because you’re not really committed to that chicken bus full of really interesting people who want nothing more than to interact with you.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The V…
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“Dare to do Dirt”: Seeking rural places (and how to best experience them)
40:37
40:37
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“Domestic travel to rural places can be as important as international travel that is more obviously cross-cultural.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marci talk about how the best trips are guided by curiosity about eight key things, rather than checklists (2:00); what Marci has learned from several decades of writing guidebooks to …
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“Dare to do Dirt”: Seeking rural places (and how to best experience them)
40:37
40:37
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“Domestic travel to rural places can be as important as international travel that is more obviously cross-cultural.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marci talk about how the best trips are guided by curiosity about eight key things, rather than checklists (2:00); what Marci has learned from several decades of writing guidebooks to …
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Vagabonding audio companion: Why (and how) travel souvenirs matter
45:02
45:02
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45:02
“A souvenir can be anything from a travel experience that honors a certain moment in your life, certifies the journey that took you there, and celebrates the confluence of people and places and actions that made it possible.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Suzanne talk about the ways souvenirs help narrate our travel experiences …
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Vagabonding audio companion: Why (and how) travel souvenirs matter
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“A souvenir can be anything from a travel experience that honors a certain moment in your life, certifies the journey that took you there, and celebrates the confluence of people and places and actions that made it possible.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Suzanne talk about the ways souvenirs help narrate our travel experiences …
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Travel can return you to a kind of childhood (online book club remix)
46:30
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“In alien parts, we speak more simply, unencumbered by the histories that we carry around at home, and look more excitedly, with eyes of wonder.” —Pico Iyer In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how he prepares for the book-club sessions (1:30); how the first days of one’s journeys have an optimistic…
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Travel can return you to a kind of childhood (online book club remix)
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46:30
“In alien parts, we speak more simply, unencumbered by the histories that we carry around at home, and look more excitedly, with eyes of wonder.” —Pico Iyer In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how he prepares for the book-club sessions (1:30); how the first days of one’s journeys have an optimistic…
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What museums reveal about places (and what they have to offer travelers)
17:50
17:50
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17:50
“We do not just keep and collect things. We trouble ourselves to repurpose, create, and invent things just to carry, a little easier, those stories we cannot live without.”—Kendra Greene In this episode of Deviate, Rolf speaks to the directors of two very different museums — Dawn Hammat of the Eisenhower Presidential Library, Museum & Boyhood Home …
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What museums reveal about places (and what they have to offer travelers)
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“We do not just keep and collect things. We trouble ourselves to repurpose, create, and invent things just to carry, a little easier, those stories we cannot live without.”—Kendra Greene In this episode of Deviate, Rolf speaks to the directors of two very different museums — Dawn Hammat of the Eisenhower Presidential Library, Museum & Boyhood Home …
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Vagabonding audio companion: How to study abroad (even if you aren’t a student)
1:00:19
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“Quietly use travel to deepen your life, and to build stronger relationships – not only with other cultures, but with your home. Figure out ways to give back.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and David talk about how travel allows you to “waste your twenties” in a good way, and how Rolf has come to define “adventure” (2:00); how to pla…
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Vagabonding audio companion: How to study abroad (even if you aren’t a student)
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“Quietly use travel to deepen your life, and to build stronger relationships – not only with other cultures, but with your home. Figure out ways to give back.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and David talk about how travel allows you to “waste your twenties” in a good way, and how Rolf has come to define “adventure” (2:00); how to pla…
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Fear, family, and walking the Camino de Santiago (live with Andrew McCarthy)
38:57
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“Not every fearful decision I’ve made has been bad, but most of my bad decisions have been based in fear.” –Andrew McCarthy In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about the two halves of Andrew’s professional life – acting and travel writing – and his transformative first journey on the Camino de Santiago in 1994 (2:00); Andrew’s decision…
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Fear, family, and walking the Camino de Santiago (live with Andrew McCarthy)
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“Not every fearful decision I’ve made has been bad, but most of my bad decisions have been based in fear.” –Andrew McCarthy In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about the two halves of Andrew’s professional life – acting and travel writing – and his transformative first journey on the Camino de Santiago in 1994 (2:00); Andrew’s decision…
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Travel burnout is a real thing (and it’s OK to feel it sometimes), with Matt Kepnes
27:39
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“The truth is that our travel anticipations, and our memories, have a way of holding only the most striking parts of an experience—the parts that don’t cause burnout.” —Matt Kepnes In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about travel journaling, and a journal Matt has designed for travelers (1:15); why travel burnout happens, and how Matt fi…
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Travel burnout is a real thing (and it’s OK to feel it sometimes), with Matt Kepnes
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“The truth is that our travel anticipations, and our memories, have a way of holding only the most striking parts of an experience—the parts that don’t cause burnout.” —Matt Kepnes In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about travel journaling, and a journal Matt has designed for travelers (1:15); why travel burnout happens, and how Matt fi…
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The Mystical High Church of Luck: Decoding Las Vegas (with Ari Shaffir)
1:04:37
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“Things don’t happen in Las Vegas. Things are happened in Las Vegas. All actions in the town are so meticulously predicted and orchestrated that spontaneity itself exists only as the ghost of compulsion.” –Rolf Potts (in 1998) In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss Rolf’s 1998 Las Vegas essay “The Mystical High Church of Luck,” and their …
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The Mystical High Church of Luck: Decoding Las Vegas (with Ari Shaffir)
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“Things don’t happen in Las Vegas. Things are happened in Las Vegas. All actions in the town are so meticulously predicted and orchestrated that spontaneity itself exists only as the ghost of compulsion.” –Rolf Potts (in 1998) In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss Rolf’s 1998 Las Vegas essay “The Mystical High Church of Luck,” and their …
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How travelers create quests and find community (online book club remix)
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“Nothing against bucket lists, but sometimes that interest that makes you weird and nerdy at home is going to make you vulnerable to all the weird nerdy people in some distant new place who are also interested in that thing.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss what compels us to be int…
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How travelers create quests and find community (online book club remix)
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26:00
“Nothing against bucket lists, but sometimes that interest that makes you weird and nerdy at home is going to make you vulnerable to all the weird nerdy people in some distant new place who are also interested in that thing.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss what compels us to be int…
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Art introduces us to places before we go there (live from the Faroe Islands)
47:59
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“You hear how there’s many words for snow in native cultures in Canada; there are actually over 20 words for ‘fog’ in the Faroe Islands.” –Matthew Landrum In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matthew discuss what makes the landscape and culture of the Faroe Islands distinctive, and how Matthew came to study Faroese (2:00); how your motivation to tr…
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Art introduces us to places before we go there (live from the Faroe Islands)
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“You hear how there’s many words for snow in native cultures in Canada; there are actually over 20 words for ‘fog’ in the Faroe Islands.” –Matthew Landrum In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matthew discuss what makes the landscape and culture of the Faroe Islands distinctive, and how Matthew came to study Faroese (2:00); how your motivation to tr…
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Travel can be a way to see the future (and experience the past), with Kevin Kelly
44:29
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“”I wasn’t partying. I wasn’t relaxing on the beach. I was photographing – working – every minute of the day. That was a means to see as much as I possibly could. And to keep looking.” –Kevin Kelly In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the ambitions and connections that led Kevin to Asia not long after high school (2:30); how Kevin’s i…
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Travel can be a way to see the future (and experience the past), with Kevin Kelly
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“”I wasn’t partying. I wasn’t relaxing on the beach. I was photographing – working – every minute of the day. That was a means to see as much as I possibly could. And to keep looking.” –Kevin Kelly In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the ambitions and connections that led Kevin to Asia not long after high school (2:30); how Kevin’s i…
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The best age to travel is whatever age you are now (an online book club remix)
42:45
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“Success is often about finding just enough material wealth to fund the life that makes you happy.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Nomadic Network book club participants discuss how travel can intensify the attention you pay to life at home (2:30); how the best discoveries of travel can’t be planned, and how you can give yours…
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The best age to travel is whatever age you are now (an online book club remix)
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“Success is often about finding just enough material wealth to fund the life that makes you happy.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Nomadic Network book club participants discuss how travel can intensify the attention you pay to life at home (2:30); how the best discoveries of travel can’t be planned, and how you can give yours…
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Seek out global connections while you’re still at home (with Kristin Van Tassel)
44:32
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“Travel has become a way to remind myself how it feels to get lost, and then get unlost. It is a way to remember the discomfort of uncertainty and the unfamiliar. It’s an exercise in receiving the unexpected.” –Kristin Van Tassel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kristin discuss being in DC, living in Kansas, and Kristin’s family trip to Mexico …
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