We talk to technology creators, regulators and dreamers from around the world to learn how complex technologies may shape our environment and societies in the years to come.
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Through conversation with experts in technology, law and military affairs, this series explores how new military technology and international law interact. Edited and produced by Dr Lauren Sanders, the podcast is published by the Asia-Pacific Institute for Law and Security. Until July 2024, the podcast was published by the University of Queensland School of Law.
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S03E06: Regulating artificial intelligence, with Geoff Mulgan
53:55
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What does it take to regulate artificial intelligence? We invited Professor Geoff Mulgan of University College London, author of When Science Meets Power (Polity Press) and many other titles, to help us unpack the possibilities. Listen in as he draws on his background in technology, governance, academia, and beyond to consider this multidimensional…
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S03E05: Soaring with drones, swimming with whales, with Dr Vanessa Pirotta
45:33
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This month, we chat with Dr Vanessa Pirotta, a wildlife scientist and science communicator with a passion for creatively making use of technology for her work in wildlife conservation. We learn all about how she uses drones to survey the health of whales in transit and what research like this is telling us about these magnificent creatures. We also…
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S03E04: Exploring AI standards, with Dr Kobi Leins
58:00
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What are AI standards – and why should we care? Our guest today, Dr Kobi Leins, has first-hand experience as both contributor to the development of AI standards for the world and a professional working on supporting safe AI in real world industry contexts. We talk about what AI standards are for and why the discussion and work feeding into standard…
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The Woomera Manual on the International Law of Military Space Operations - Dale Stephens
43:32
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In this episode we hear from Professor Dale Stephens on the long-awaited release of The Woomera Manual on the International Law of Military Space Operations, how it came about, what it is intended to do, and where international law might be headed in relation to military space operations - as well as the challenges in drafting an international law …
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S03E03: How AI is transforming astronomy (and other stories), with Dr Sara Webb
40:57
40:57
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The idea that artificial intelligence is taking our jobs can be scary – but in actuality, there are cases where this is a good thing. Dr Sara Webb (Swinburne University of Technology) shares one of these stories in today’s episode, which begins with a TedX talk in Melbourne and ends with a discussion of some of the many ways techniques developed fo…
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Bounded Autonomy, Meaningful Human Control and Military AI - Jan Maarten Schraagen
54:51
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In this episode we dive into issues of human-machine teaming, with human factors engineer Jan Maarten Schraagen. Having edited the recently released book, Responsible Use of AI in Military Systems, Jan Maarten is an expert on how brittle technologies influence joint cognitive system performance. In this episode, in addition to exploring the book, w…
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S03E02: The art of artificial intelligence, with Eryk Salvaggio
43:00
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In the age of DALL-E and Stable Diffusion, what counts as art? And what can art tell us about AI? In this episode, we explore these questions and more with the help of Eryk Salvaggio, a US-based artist, designer and researcher whose work explores the fabric of artificial intelligence -- and often playfully defies its boundaries. Credits Guest – Ery…
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OpinioJuris Symposium on Military AI and the Law of Armed Conflict - Lena Trabucco
45:38
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Part of the ongoing debate about the lawfulness of autonomy in military systems in the manner in which the technology integrates with and interacts with its human masters. The term Meaningful Human Control (or MHC) has garnered particular relevance in this debate. Today we speak with Dr Lena Trabucco about her upcoming OpinioJuris Symposium on Mili…
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S03E01: Relics, reciprocity, and risk: A tale of two co-hosts
46:10
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It is the launch of season 3 of this podcast, and we thought it was high time for a positionality statement – er, episode. Why not align it with the start of a new season and our debut on YouTube? Listen in for an episode featuring our co-hosts, Liz Williams and Zena Assaad, in which we explore everything from relics, reactions, reciprocity, risk, …
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Article 57, those who plan or decide on attacks and autonomous weapons - Renato Wolf
51:18
51:18
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In this episode, Lauren Sanders is speaking with fellow LFW researcher, Renato Wolf about the issue of determining where legal obligations lie in the conduct of attacks, carried out by AWS. In particular they delve into his research about the Art 57 term ‘those who plan or decide attacks’ to see how that maps onto AWS, how that features in the AWS …
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Future of War series: Stuart Casey-Maslen and Directed Energy Weapons
35:31
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In this episode, Dr Lauren Sanders speaks with Professor Stuart Casey-Maslen about Directed Energy Weapons. They traverse the existing legal controls on these weapons, and speak about the potential for future regulation of novel uses of energy weapons in armed conflict. This conversation preceded a presentation by Dr Casey-Maslen, Dr Sanders and Dr…
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Future of War series: Algorithmic Futures with Zena Assaad and Elizabeth Williams
38:02
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As part of our ‘futures’ mini-series, in this episode we are looking specifically at Algorithmic Futures, with hosts of the podcast of the same name: Dr Zena Assaad and Dr Elizabeth Williams, both from ANU. Today we are going to specifically focus on the breadth of the design and uncertainty problem for capabilities augmented by algorithms. Elizabe…
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Future of war series: Biological warfare and transparency on the battlefield with Robert Lawless
45:13
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Continuing our future of war series, this episode dives into the legal implications of increasing transparency of the battlespace as a result of technological change; and looks at developments in biological warfare that challenge the long-standing prohibition on biological weapons at international law. We speak with Rob Lawless from the Leiber Inst…
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Future of War: Artur Gruszczak - The Routledge Handbook on the Future of War
44:01
44:01
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In this third episode in our futures mini-series, we continue our scoping of the utility of seeking to predict the future of war; before deep diving into emerging and disruptive technologies. Recorded in late September 2023, we are speaking with Artur Gruszczak about the Future of War, and his recently edited Handbook on the same topic, released by…
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Future of War series: David Kilcullen and Ian Langford: the Future of Australia's Defence Strategy and the Indo-Pacific
52:46
52:46
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Recorded in early September 2023, this episode continues our futures mini-series, where we speak with Dr Ian Langford and Professor David Killcullen about the future of war in the Indo-Pacific region. In this episode we will be getting a download on what the change in geopolitics in the Indo-Pacific means for Australia, and how that might impact ch…
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S02E09: Robotics, Entrepreneurship, and Art, with Damith Herath
53:13
53:13
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In our final episode of season 2, we are grateful to be joined by Damith Herath, Associate Professor of Robotics and Art at the University of Canberra. Damith is a multi-talented roboticist with a long history of working in the art world, and an interest in understanding how to shape human-robot collaboration in real-world environments. During our …
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S02E08: Navigating autonomous weapons systems and responsible military technology, with Lauren Sanders
52:48
52:48
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What does responsibility look like in military contexts – and how do you think about encoding it in autonomous military technologies with the capacity to harm? In today’s episode, we explore this topic from a legal perspective with the help of Lauren Sanders. Lauren is a senior research fellow at the University of Queensland with expertise in inter…
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Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Guilty pleas and the ICC: Charles Adeogun-Phillips Part 2
51:15
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In this episode, we conclude our interview with Dr Charles Adeogun-Phillips, discussing guilty pleas and their development in international criminal law. Dr Charles A. Adeogun-Phillips is an accomplished international lawyer and former lead international prosecutor. He founded the cross-border law firm of Charles Anthony LLP, following a distinguis…
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Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Guilty pleas and the ICC: Charles Adeogun-Phillips
28:07
28:07
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In this interview, we are speaking with Dr Charles Adeogun-Phillips about the history of guilty pleas in international criminal law, as an author of a chapter on the same topic, as part of the edited works, Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Contributions in Pursuit of Accountability for Africa and the World. The challenges associated…
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S02E07: Exploring the nuclear mindset, with Veronica Taylor, Ed Simpson, and Will Grant
1:06:28
1:06:28
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In this episode, we explore the “nuclear mindset” – a term being thrown around in discussions about Australia’s plans to acquire conventionally-armed, nuclear powered submarines as part of the AUKUS trilateral partnership between the US, UK, and Australia. With the help of Veronica Taylor, Will Grant, and Ed Simpson, guest co-host AJ Mitchell and I…
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Contemporary ICL Issues - Sexual and Gender-Based Violence: What Legacy for the New ICC Prosecutor? - Natacha Bracq
32:55
32:55
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We continue this international criminal law mini-series by speaking with Natacha Bracq, who wrote a chapter on gender and sexual-based violence in Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Contributions in Pursuit of Accountability for Africa and the World, which deals with a range of issues impacting contemporary ICL practice in Africa and …
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Future of War series: Sir Lawrence Freedman - The History of the Future of War (Ukraine Update)
41:08
41:08
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We start our futures mini-series by speaking with an eminent military historian on the future of warfare. In this episode we are delighted to be joined by Sir Lawrence Freedman. Recorded in September 2023 he joins us to talk about the future of warfare, having regard to his approach to predicting future war, as outlined in The Future of War: A Hist…
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Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Contributions in Pursuit of Accountability for Africa and the World: Takeh Sendze
30:07
30:07
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We start this international criminal law mini-series by speaking with Mr Takeh Sendze, who is the editor of a recently published book, Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Contributions in Pursuit of Accountability for Africa and the World, which deals with a range of issues impacting contemporary ICL practice in Africa and around the w…
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S02E06: How to shape technology (and society) with equity and inclusion in mind, with Tracey Spicer
47:55
47:55
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Our episode today features Tracey Spicer, award winning journalist, author, and social justice advocate who begins this episode with a story from her own life: her son, after watching an episode of South Park, declared “Mum, I want a robot slave.” This declaration prompted Tracey to begin a seven-year journey exploring how society shapes the techno…
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BarbieHeimer Special Series - A Manhattan Historian's perspective on Oppenheimer: Chris Griffith (AtomicArchive)
40:53
40:53
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In this episode in the BarbieHeimer series, we focus on the history of the Manhattan Project and the accuracy of the Oppenheimer movie. We are speaking with nuclear historian Chris Griffith, about the history, and consequences of the atomic age. As a warning, if you haven’t seen the film we will be talking about the movie’s plot lines and breaking …
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BarbieHeimer Special Series - Barbie and The Nine Dash Line: Don Rothwell
47:59
47:59
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In this, the first of our Special Series on the BarbieHeimer phenomenon, we speak with international law of the sea expert, Professor Don Rothwell to find out what all the controversy was about in relation to the banning of the Barbie movie in Vietnam; the 9-Dash line; and the importance of maps in international law. Professor Donald R Rothwell is …
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BarbieHeimer Special Series - Barbie as a Souvenir of International Law: Emily Crawford and Jacqueline Mowbray
40:36
40:36
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40:36
In this 'BarbieHeimer' special episode, we return to the plastic doll, to talk about materialism, symbolism and the souvenirs in international law. Emily Crawford and Jacqueline Mowbray walk us through their Souvenirs in International Law exhibit and project; and where Barbie features in their exhibit, as well as introducing us to Doudou Louis, the…
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BarbieHeimer - what the meme (and pop culture) teaches us about nuclear politics: Emily Faux
47:45
47:45
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Today we continue our ‘BarbieHeimer’ (or Barbenheimer) series, and are talking today about the meme itself. Is it appropriate to mash these two films together? Is this frivolity making light of the serious impacts of nuclear weapons and the need for a refocus on non-proliferation and disarmament efforts? We speak with a scholar of Visual Politics a…
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BarbieHeimer Special Series - Oppenheimer missed an opportunity: Gareth Evans
41:29
41:29
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In the second in our 'BarbieHeimer' series, we turn to the Oppenheimer movie and speak with world-renowned nuclear disarmament advocate and expert, Gareth Evans, about the opportunity the movie missed in re-energising efforts to the nuclear disarmament cause. We speak with him about the need for Australia to return to its former position of influen…
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AWS, the Alignment problem and regulation - Brendan Walker-Munro and Sam Hartridge
47:08
47:08
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47:08
In this interview, we are continuing our series on legal review of AWS, and speaking with two of the Law and Future of war research team, about an issue that impacts the design approaches to AWS: the alignment problem. In May 2023, there were reports of an AWS being tested, that turned upon its operator, and eventually cut its communications links …
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S02E05: Safeguarding the Future: Responsible AI Use in Education and Beyond, with Simon Chesterman
1:00:50
1:00:50
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You have probably heard of ChatGPT – the generative AI language model that is already transforming work and education. In this episode, we explore the many potential benefits and challenges ChatGPT and models like it pose for education and law with the help of Simon Chesterman, author of We, the Robots? Regulating Artificial Intelligence and the Li…
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S02E04: How the oak tree flourishes in the cheese grater of innovation, with Kate Devitt
52:51
52:51
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What does human flourishing have to do with human-machine teams? And how do we meaningfully engage stakeholders in consultations about some of the most challenging problems of our time? Listen in as we explore some of these questions with Kate Devitt, co-founder and CEO of BetterBeliefs – a platform for evidence-based stakeholder engagement and dec…
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What does IHL Permit, Prohibit and Require? - Netta Goussac and Laura Bruun
45:21
45:21
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In this episode, as part of our series on AWS, legal review & IHL, we speak with Netta Goussac & Laura Bruun about their recently released SIPRI report on IHL & AWS, asking questions about what IHL permits, prohibits & requires in the design, development & use of AWS. Netta Goussac is a Special Counsel with Lexbridge (a legal practice & consultancy…
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Legal Review of AWS: Decision support systems and technical feasibility of review- Taylor Woodcock and Klaudia Klonowska
39:09
39:09
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39:09
As part of our new, limited series on the Legal Review of AWS, we speak with two researchers from the Asser Institute on what the legal review obligation means for decision support systems, and what technical challenges exist in approaching the review obligation during the design and development phases in the creation of AWS. Taylor Kate Woodcock i…
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S02E03: Navigating space law and space inclusivity with Cassandra Steer
49:39
49:39
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Most of us have a vested interest in what happens in space – whether we know it or not. Listen in as we talk to Cassandra Steer, Deputy Director of the Australian National University Institute for Space – or ANU InSpace, for short – about space law, diversity and inclusivity in the space sector, and why having diverse perspectives contribute to Aus…
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AI Literacy for Defence Industry - Zygmunt Szpak
42:35
42:35
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42:35
The discussion about AI regulation and law has been hampered by a lack of understanding about what AI actually is and what it can do. To date, there is no agreed definition of what constitutes AI; not any likely international consensus, with many states and NGOs adopting their own definitions. This problem is then compounded when it comes to defini…
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S02E02: The future of robotics in Australia, With Sue Keay
58:26
58:26
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Our second episode of Season 2 features Sue Keay. Sue is currently the robotics technology lead at OZ Minerals, Chair and Founder of Robotics Australia Group, and is a member of the Advisory Committee for the National Robotics Strategy (amongst many other accomplishments). She joined us for a chat shortly before the Department of Industry, Science …
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S02E01: Artificial intelligence and the human gaze, with Julie Carpenter
47:02
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Our first episode of Season 2 features Julie Carpenter, author of Culture and Human-Robot Interaction in Militarised Spaces: A War Story. Julie is a social scientist based in San Francisco, and her work explores how humans experience emerging technologies. Listen in as we delve into the relationship between humans and robots, exploring everything f…
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Special episode: War crimes in Russia and Australia - the ICC arrest warrant against the Russian President and the AFP arrest of former ADF soldier - Rain Liivoja and Simon McKenzie
49:44
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In this special episode, members of the Law and Future of War research project discuss two significant events occurring in the week of 17 March 2023 relating to criminal justice for alleged war crimes: 1. The ICC arrest warrant issued in respect of the situation in Ukraine, and President Vladimir Putin's role in the alleged deportation of children …
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Four Battlegrounds: Power in the Age of Artificial Intelligence - Paul Scharre
44:37
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In this episode, Dr Lauren Sanders speaks to Dr Paul Scharre, Vice President and Director of Studies at CNAS (the Centre for a New American Security), is a leading author on autonomous weapons and the impact of AI in the military. He has an extensive background in the drafting and implementation of policy relating to the current and future use of a…
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Eye in the Sky: Facts and Fiction in Military Decision-Making - Shiri Krebs
36:42
36:42
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In today’s episode we are continuing our holiday season special on entertainment and IHL. Dr Lauren Sanders is speaking again with Professor Shiri Krebs, but this time about targeting and the movies. In particular they are talking about her paper, Drone-Cinema, Data Practices, and the Narrative of IHL, and how representations of the use of drones i…
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In this episode of our IHL and entertainment series, Dr Lauren Sanders speaks with Dr Shannon Zimmerman about Dr Who and his crimes of genocide. Talking about the examples of genocide by Dr Who throughout the series, this interview discussed Dr Zimmerman's paper, 'Doctor Who and the Responsibility to Protect: Public Perspectives of Atrocity Crimes'…
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Dr Lauren Sanders speaks to one of our regular contributors to the podcast, Professor Dale Stephens and combines two of his specialised areas of expertise: space law and international humanitarian law. How might this be possible you might ask? Well, as part of our special holiday series episodes, we are going to turn our minds to a long time ago in…
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Entertainment and the laws of war - Eve Massingham
23:05
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In this episode of our special entertainment and the law series, Law and Future of War Senior Research Fellow, Dr Eve Massingham discusses the obligation to ensure respect with IHL with her colleague Dr Lauren Sanders. Eve talks about her recent papers detailing how governments should wield their influence over the entertainment industry for good: …
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This is the first episode in our special series on entertainment and the law of war. In this episode, Dr Sebastian Kaempf, a Senior Lecturer in Peace and Conflict Studies, joins Dr Lauren Sanders to discuss. his documentary: and the documents he's uncovered from the US CIA and military Entertainment Liaison Offices as part of this project. Dr Sebas…
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Universal Jurisdiction and Ukraine - Danielle Ireland-Piper and Melinda Rankin
57:04
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In this final episode of our series on accountability in Ukraine, Dr Lauren Sanders speaks with Associate Professor Danielle Ireland-Piper and Dr Melinda Rankin about universal jurisdiction and how it may play a part in the prosecution of war crimes occurring in the Ukraine conflict. Danielle is an Associate Professor at the ANU National Security C…
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The Strategic Effect of OSINT - Tom Bullock
39:40
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Episode 10: Creating purposeful technology with Jenny Zhang
42:34
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Today, we’re honoured to be joined by Jenny Zhang -- a software engineer and writer based in Canada. Her purpose-driven approach to technology development comes through clearly throughout our time with her, and (we think) offers up valuable lessons to anyone seeking to generate beneficial impact in the tech industry. Listen in as we talk to Jenny a…
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Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) and Ukraine - Benjamin Strick
55:15
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This is the fourth episode in our series about accountability in Ukraine. This episode focuses on the collection and collation of information (and potential evidence) using open-source intelligence. As you will hear, OSINT has played a key role in the development of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and in the monitoring of conflict in Myanmar. Today…
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Ukraine, The Crime of Aggression and the Need for a Special Tribunal - Carrie McDougall
41:23
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This episode is the third in a series of podcasts analysing accountability in the current Ukrainian conflict. In this third episode, we are speaking with Dr Carrie McDougall, from the University of Melbourne, who has been heavily involved in the proposal for the establishment of a Special International Tribunal to facilitate the investigation and p…
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