04 | Being Your Own Hype Person with James Swell

Through The Creative Door

In this upbeat episode of 'Through the Creative Door,' Alexis engages in a heartfelt conversation with guest James Swell, Perth musician, artist and lover of model making, delving deep into the labyrinth of creativity. Together, they peel back the layers of the creative process, navigating the twists and turns of self-critique and self-celebration.

James reflects on his musical journey, sharing moments of pride, such as the creation of an original EP with his band, Brass Party, and the exhilaration of witnessing people connect with their unique music.

Overcoming self-doubt, and embracing unique creative expressions can be a windy road, so join us as we listen to James share personal experiences, and valuable lessons that remind us to celebrate and share one's creative spark with the world.

If you’d like to see more, you can follow James on instagram @jamesswellsax OR @brasspartyperth

This episode was recorded on 18 October 2023 on the lands of the Wajuk Peoples. We hope this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.

Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode. Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor

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CREDITS

Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor

Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel

Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel

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00:08 - Alexis (Host)

Hi, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. We pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I will be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. Welcome to Through the Creative Door.

Welcome, James.

00:49 - Alexis (Host)

Welcome, James.

00:50 - James (Guest)

Thanks Alexis, thanks for having me.

00:52 - Alexis (Host)

Thank you so much for coming and chatting and welcoming me into this beautiful space of yours.

01:05

I see lots of things around this room. They're all very creative. Thank you, I already knew that you were a very talented, multi-talented bear, but just visually I'm seeing all of the things and I'm sure there's more.

01:18 - James (Guest)

Yeah, hidden away in drawers somewhere, she talented bear kind of sounds like a grinder handle.

01:24 - Alexis (Host)

Oh no, I didn't mean to say that I like it. I like it, oh dear, oh dear. Alexis is getting cancelled. Now I'm very curious, and I've asked everyone this question, which is you know? I mean, we all have different creative spaces for different things, but what does a creative space mean to you?

01:48 - James (Guest)

Yeah, it's a good question.

01:49

I mean, I feel like your creative space can just be like anywhere that you do your creating, but for me, I'm definitely prone to getting distracted, so which I mean like I don't know, maybe having all of the things possible in one room isn't the best way to deal with that. But, like, for me, having a space where I can just sit down and go you know, this is where I do it, this is where the magic happens is really important, because it's kind of like you know they say that like if you spend lots of time in bed when you're not sleeping, then your brain starts to associate the bed with being awake, so you don't sleep as well there. So if you've got a room that you can just go, like this is like my dedicated space where I do whatever my thing is then when I sit down in the chair, it's like it's go time, like I can instantly sort of slip into that mode. I find having that space just kind of set aside is really important and as free from distractions as possible to be.

02:48 - Alexis (Host)

I mean, in this day and age we've got a little computer in our pockets that distracts us.

02:55 - James (Guest)

Yeah, the phone's the biggest attention killer.

02:58 - Alexis (Host)

Oh my goodness, it's shocking For those who are listening you have in this room some amazing Lego models. I am such a fan of Lego I'm showing for those who don't know, my mum's Filipino and Asian mums tend to, I don't know be pretty rigid with certain things and I don't know why, but mine was. I never got Lego.

03:28 - James (Guest)

That's an interesting restriction, I guess.

03:31 - Alexis (Host)

I don't know. Maybe it was because it's very expensive, Maybe it was yeah, I don't know.

03:36 - James (Guest)

I mean it's not cheap as far as little bits of plastic go.

03:39 - Alexis (Host)

True, and they get everywhere and they're like mm, mm, mm.

03:44 - James (Guest)

I saw a show at the Rechabite recently, the Yuck Circus, lots of acrobatics and circus tricks, but they did a test of endurance where someone spilled Lego across the floor and then walked barefoot across it and it was harrowing stuff.

04:01 - Alexis (Host)

I almost feel like I'd want to pick hot coals. Yeah, almost.

04:06 - James (Guest)

At least that's something to brag about. I mean, we've all stepped on Lego and hurt, that's true, but yeah, no, I love it. I feel like it's probably one of those early creative endeavors that I got into, because my dad and I always used to make stuff out of Lego just a big old box of loose parts.

04:24 - Alexis (Host)

That's so cool. I love that. Yeah, well, you have some very cool ones here. I'm very jealous. Maybe after this, maybe you can let me play, oh absolutely.

04:34 - James (Guest)

I go for pushability, which is an important factor apparently.

04:40 - Alexis (Host)

Well, in this room I also see I mean digital artwork, I see physical artwork, I see lots of different modeling and for a lot of people we would actually see the outer side of what you do, like work, wise being, you know, playing on your saxophone and like doing all the musical stuff. I guess it might be a difficult question to ask, but what's something that you're proud of in that creative space, a body of work, and how did it come about?

05:14 - James (Guest)

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people would probably know me more from doing music than anything else. Like, a lot of this stuff is just my hobby, which is great. Good to have a creative outlet. That's not, you know, all work, but one of my projects that I'm proudest of is Brass Party.

05:29

So a lot of people a lot of people know us from you know late night sets at the Ello (Ellington Jazz Club) and just like pumping out the covers. But last year we started working on a whole bunch of original music which we recorded with Kieran Kenderese, who's an amazing sound engineer, and we are putting that EP out into the world. Finally, but that's probably one of the things I'm proudest of creatively, because I feel like we spent so long like brewing this sort of creative mix as a band where everyone had their own influences that they brought together and we all sort of set it on things that, like I know, excited us equally. And then, after all this time of like just finding those influences, we finally went like well, you know, let's put them all in the melting pot and see what we come out with. And we came out with something that like felt like all of those, those party tunes and those kind of nostalgic pop punk or, you know, scar punk bangers that we grew up listening to.

06:30 - Alexis (Host)

Well, for someone who's watched you guys perform, I can vouch for that. I definitely can vouch for that.

06:37 - James (Guest)

Yeah, I mean, you know, Alexis, obviously one of the number one height people always out the front screaming getting the dance floor going.

06:46 - Alexis (Host)

I mean any opportunity to get on a dance floor. Let's be honest, yeah, yeah.

06:50 - James (Guest)

But no, that's like the most exciting thing about that music is watching people enjoy it and the fact that we were able to like not obviously like a lot of a lot of people love covers. They love hearing covers, especially in Perth. But then being able to get that same excitement from people with something that, like we created, you know, whole cloth ourselves, that was. That was an amazing feeling. Because anytime you try you know, I'm sure you know anytime you try a new music, even if it's just a new song or it's like a whole reinvention of your style, you're just like, oh, is this going to flop? Is everyone going to hate this?

07:26 - Alexis (Host)

It is. I mean whether it is music or art or or a poem or a recipe, I don't know. I do think that you know there's an element of vulnerability that I don't know about you, but I don't think you ever get immune to that. Yeah, yeah.

07:48 - James (Guest)

Absolutely yeah, like I mean, I've been I've been performing for so long that like stage fright isn't really a thing for me anymore. But putting out a brand new piece of work, especially one that's like, it's kind of like bearing your soul You're going this is something that I enjoy, it's so important to me, and putting it out there and going like just laying it out for other people's opinion yeah, yeah.

08:12

It kind of. It's hard to divorce that from like being judged as a person Like this. This is I mean not not that my fun dandy pop tunes are really that much of like my soul laid bare but, it's like this is something that's important to me. No, so yeah, it's nerve-wracking.

08:27 - James (Guest)

But yeah, I'm so happy with how it all turned out.

08:30 - Alexis (Host)

And you guys should be so proud. It's very, very, very cool.

08:33 - James (Guest)

Very danceable, hopefully, oh yeah, oh yeah.

08:37 - Alexis (Host)

I guess on the flip side of that, like you just mentioned, you know you've been creating or had the creative bug for your whole life. Do you reckon that there's been something that has challenged you creatively and what do you reckon that lesson, or major lesson, was about that?

08:56 - James (Guest)

Yeah, I was first properly pursuing music as a potential career when I was studying, studying music at WAAPA. We kind of taught to be self critical to you know, look at what you're doing and and, I guess, analyze it, which is it's a very, it's a very cerebral kind of take on the creative process. But you know, if you don't, if you don't, critique yourself, you can never really grow and improve. But that couple with, like, my inherent kind of anxiety and my like the way my personality is, I frequently was just coming away from gigs feeling absolutely drained and completely down on myself and my creative output and while I was trying to play like it would be so bad that that internal critic would be going, you know, just going, constantly going oh that was crap, that was stupid, like it's so much worse than everyone else on this stage and obviously that's not a helpful thing in the moment or in general. I think Some people may be able to like look at themselves that frankly and go yeah, and disassociate themselves from the.

10:18

Yeah, and be able to critique what they're doing in, I guess, a more objective way. But for me that level of self reflection was just completely unhelpful and it kind of sounds so funny to say. But I almost just had this one decision where I'm like either I need to stop doing that or and be able to enjoy my music, or I need to find a different career, because the self-critique was absolutely just getting in the way of being able to create. And it's in hindsight it feels like such an easy fix to just go well, I'm going to enjoy myself now, I'm not going to let that worry me and obviously like

11:02 - Alexis (Host)

But clearly like, hat would have taken a process and a time. You know it's easy for us to do a synopsis of what that learning means.

11:09 - James (Guest)

I mean hindsight, probably years of work went into it, but yeah no, after that I really like made an effort to enjoy being in the moment when I was performing and to not critique myself as much, because if I hate what I'm doing, why should I expect anyone else to enjoy it? And I guess the biggest takeaway, the lesson that I got from that and it's something that I try and pass on to like students, because obviously I teach people to play music now, which is amazing, like it's this. You know it has its hard times, but it's so fulfilling to when you get to see some Passing the baton on yeah when you see people developing that joy.

11:50

The thing that I really learned from that was there are a lot of people who will tell you you're crap. You know people don't hold back on that but there are far fewer people who will tell you you're amazing and go into bat for you 100%. So you don't need to be one of the critics. There are plenty of people who can fill that role. You do need to be your own advocate. You need to be, you know you need to be supportive of yourself.

12:19 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, you need to be part of your own team.

12:23 - James (Guest)

Be your own hype squad.

12:24 - Alexis (Host)

You're pit crew.

12:37

I'm intrigued. Is there anything like an object or a thing that you can't live without when you're creating?

12:39 - James (Guest)There's going to be a really boring answer, but I actually don't think there is no. I mean, I'm a very sentimental person, but I feel like. I feel like I mean it might just be that I've got so many different creative outlets, which is why I think this is going to be a difficult question to answer.

12:56

There's not any single one thing, but I mean the saxophone that I have here sitting on it's stand. That is the same saxophone that I've been playing on since, I think, 2005. So I played that since primary school, yeah, since I, like my parents, were like we're not going to buy you a saxophone, you're just starting this instrument, you know, don't be daft, yeah, it's a sensible choice.

13:22 - Alexis (Host)

I think it is yeah.

13:25 - James (Guest)

But when I started doing it I really enjoyed it. Like, all right, we'll buy you a saxophone and I got this one and yeah, I've been playing it ever since and I think it's kind of like your instrument in a way, and I mean, like the specific you know metal and cork thing that you're playing is part of your voice as a creator. You know the peculiarities and the little unique things that it has. They make your sound what it is. And so, yeah, I don't think I would be creating in the same way if I didn't have it so thanks, Mum and Dad Good investment

14:03 - Alexis (Host)

Well, I mean, they delayed on buying you that investment, but you know it was very wise of the parents.

14:13 - James (Guest)

Yes but oh, 18 years old now, I think that sax, yeah, it's doing good. Yeah, it's doing good been through a lot. Yeah, to an extent also, just having it like on a sax stand is super helpful because I can just be doing some admin and listening to some some tunes and just go like I want to play. I was be able to pick it up and noodle for a little bit.

14:37 - Alexis (Host)

I've always found that myself. So I'm not a guitar player at all, but I do have one and I do find that just purely having the instrument readily available for you just pick up and have a little tinkle and then put it back down. I know a lot can be said for having your toys out yeah, really available to play with.

15:00 - James (Guest)

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it's not. You could just put your voice down and, you know, not have it easily accessible. True, I'm definitely the sort of person who like sings. All the time I'm just walking around going like, (scatting)

15:18 - Alexis (Host)

I tend to do that. And I don't even realize that I and I have been called out for it, where I've been asked a question and perhaps, maybe, serenaded that person back with the answer. I don't even realize I'm doing it. Yeah, not my finest of moments.

15:36 - James (Guest)

Let me answer your question with a song. No see, I got called out for it for an entirely different reason, because I was walking along. I'm just scatting this like happy little jazz tune and someone walks by and like “Stop singing. You're making me realize how miserable”

15:51 - James (Guest)

Oh my gosh, that sounds like a you problem.

15:57 - James (Guest)

Wow, cool, don't be happy. That's the takeaway, kids.

16:00 - Alexis (Host)

Well, speaking of takeaways, I'm curious what if you had, if you could give one piece of advice, what would it be?

16:11 - James (Guest)

I mean, I definitely think each person, I think, has a unique creative thing they can bring to the world. It doesn't have to be something that's traditionally defined.

16:21 - Alexis (Host)

It can be creative food, it could be the way you cook. Yeah, so many different ways for us to create.

16:29 - James (Guest)

Yeah, and self critiquing your way out of sharing that with the world is a pretty sad thing. I think all of us need to be more proudly excited about, about our hobbies and about the things that, the passions that spark joy. Yeah. Does it spark joy? Yeah, and because there are so many people who will tell you that you're crap and that your gift isn't worth sharing. But if you don't share it, if you don't, you'll never find those people who enjoy it.

17:02 - Alexis (Host)

Amen, brother Amen.

17:05 - James (Guest)

So preachy

17:08 - Alexis (Host)

It is true. It is true, but very well said.

17:11 - James (Guest)

Thank you.

17:12 - Alexis (Host)

I think, even hearing that for myself, it's always nice to have someone remind you that, yeah, we need to back ourselves well and truly.

17:27 - James (Guest)

I think it's a rare gift now that we have. I mean, like, for all the harm the internet's done, you know being incredibly distracting, it has let people find their audiences and find like their tribe, like you can be like making a little webcomic for an audience of 30 people who you would never have met before, but they're exactly the kind of weird that you are. Or you've got like a style of music that you could never fill a pub with people who would come listen to it, but they can hear online. I think that's one great thing about the internet, which itself, I guess, is kind of a creative space.

18:08 - Alexis (Host)

Oh, for sure.

18:10 - James (Guest)

Is that you can find your people and you can find the audience for your own. You know your own style, in whatever way that is.

18:20 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, I'd agree. Well said, One last question. Yes, who would you want to hear answer these questions If you could have anyone come through and be on the podcast? Who would they be and why?

18:38 - James (Guest)

Have you had Kirsty from Sgt. Hulka yet?

18:41 - Alexis (Host)

I have not.

18:45 - James (Guest)

She's a very multi, multi talented bear as well.

18:48 - Alexis (Host)

She's a multi talented bear.

18:51 - James (Guest)

Amazing muso, amazing Mum.

18:53 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, she's a. What do they say? She's got her fingers in all the pies. James, thank you so much for joining me.

19:03 - James (Guest)

Thanks so much, Alexis, this has been treat.