19. Travel Nursing & TWO Van Conversions @kodaandcourt

A Travel Path Podcast

https://atravelpath.com/

Hey Pathfinders! Today’s episode felt like a 2-for-1since we got a dose of both Travel Nursing AND Van Conversions. Dakota and Courtney are a young couple who “chase big dreams trying to make it happen.” In this inspiring episode you’ll hear all about:

Travel Nursing

How to get started, how long the process takes, how long you can work an assignment for, and so on. Courtney shares how travel nursing can be quite nerve-wracking at first, but as you become familiar with the process, things get easier.

Where to Stay

With travel nursing, there are several options available for places to stay. Dakota and Courtney share their experiences at many of them and tell us what they prefer. We also get into detail about why you need to have a paper trail and pay some sort of rent wherever you end up.

Van Conversions

Along with travel nursing, Dakota and Courtney have (nearly) completed two van builds. The beauty of this episode is that we got to ask them why they sold their first one, and what they are doing differently with this next built. Plus, hear about how it took them over 9 MONTHS to receive the first van they ordered.

Costs

Dakota and Courtney give us very detailed numbers on how much BOTH of their van builds cost as well as sharing tips on how you can start saving money. They also share their thoughts on how much someone might want to have saved up before traveling.

Chapters

· 00:00 Intro

· 02:30 What is the process of getting into Travel Nursing?

· 07:15 Travel Nure pay and stipends

· 12:30 How are you finding places to stay?

· 15:30 Working with Aya Healthcare

· 16:15 Can you negotiate your terms?

· 20:30 What was the process of acquiring your van?

· 28:30 How did you know what material to buy for your van?

· 29:30 Why did you sell your first van?

· 32:00 What are you doing differently with your current van build?

· 34:45 What mistakes did you make with your van build?

· 38:15 How long did each van build take?

· 40:15 What has been your coolest travel experience?

· 43:00 How much money should you have saved up before traveling?

· 45:15 How much did your van builds cost?

· 46:45 How can someone get started?

· 49:45 What YouTube channels helped with your van build?

Dakota and Courtney on Social

· Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kodaandcourt/

· YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@kodaandcourt

Nursing:

· Aya Healthcare: https://www.ayahealthcare.com/

· GSA.gov: https://www.gsa.gov/travel/plan-book/per-diem-rates

· Regarding if your RV loan counts as a payment, I couldn’t find much information besides this forum, so take it for what it is worth and do your own research: https://www.reddit.com/r/TravelNursing/comments/13rjt3n/rv_travel_nursing/

Stays

· The hospital Courtney started at: https://www.evanhospital.com/

· Furnished Finders: https://www.furnishedfinder.com/

· Where they Stayed: https://www.facebook.com/TheDeLongVillage/

Van Build Resources

· Explorist.life: https://explorist.life/

· Far Out Ride: https://faroutride.com/

Their Two Vans:

· Ram ProMaster 136

· Ram ProMaster 159

Channels

· Jimmy and Natalie: https://www.youtube.com/@JimmyandNatalie

· Wild by the Mile: https://www.youtube.com/@WildbytheMile

Past Episodes Mentioned:

Episode 1 with Dylan: https://atravelpath.com/how-to-be-a-digital-nomad/

Episode 13 with Jason and Laura: https://atravelpath.com/road-trip-with-kids/

Most Popular Blogs:

· Most Popular Travel Hacks: https://atravelpath.com/money-saving-travel-tips/

· Travel Gear: https://atravelpath.com/travel-gear/

· How to Budget For Gas on a Road Trip: https://atravelpath.com/how-to-budget-for-gas-for-a-road-trip/

· Our Favorite RV Upgrades: https://atravelpath.com/rv-upgrades/

· How Much We Made Renting Our RV: https://atravelpath.com/renting-camper-van/

· Never Run Out of Gas on a Road Trip: https://atravelpath.com/road-trip-tip/

Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/abbynoise/rocky-mountains

*All content from atravelpath.com, including but not limited to The Travel Path Podcast and social media platforms, is designed to share general information. We are not experts and the information is not designed to serve as legal, financial, or tax advice. Always do your own research and due diligence before making a decision.

Transcript

Host: Dakota and Courtney, welcome to the Travel Path Podcast!

Guest: Hey.

Host: So you're on Instagram as @KotaandCourt, documenting your travels across 25 states so far, and we're really excited to finally have a travel nurse on the show. You've completed one and are on your second van build, so I can already tell there's going to be a lot of information to uncover with this podcast. But why don't we first start by having you share a little about yourselves?

Guest: Well, we're just two kids from small towns in Missouri. I'm from a little town called Nevada, Missouri, and she's from Shell City, Missouri. She graduated with, like, 13 kids, so very small. Yeah, so not too much. I mean, had 35 cars and I'm 25 years old, so do a lot of that kind of stuff and just, you know, chase big dreams and try to make them happen. Yeah, that's it.

Host: And travel while you can. So I'm sure those 25 you've had are going to help or have helped out with your van conversion. Um, so we'll definitely get into the van conversion later on in the show. I do want to get into travel nursing. If you've been paying attention to the podcast recently, we've had a few people mention travel nursing. So we're finally able to talk about it and bring it up here. So tell us about that. So obviously with travel nursing, you get your degree in nursing, you find a job with nursing somewhere, and then at some point, the idea of travel nursing comes to your mind. So what's that process of actually getting into nursing?

Guest: Oh gosh, um, it's honestly kind of difficult. It's not difficult, but it's a big process. You have to find, um, sometimes it's, for me especially, it was hard trying to find, like, the right company. Um, you hear good things and bad things, um, obviously with everybody. So I kind of just picked a popular one. I'm with a healthcare. You basically, like, sign yourself up, so it's kind of like a job, um, application. You sign yourself up, you get a recruiter, and then they kind of just, like, help guide you through the process. Um, you have to fill out a bunch of tax forms, go get, like, physicals and labs drawn, um, basically do a bunch of requirements, like a huge checklist they have. And then, you know, obviously, there's a shortage of nurses everywhere, so you can really pick wherever you want to go, which is really cool. You can go to, um, you know, Alaska, Florida. Um, there are even some nursing companies that will allow you to go to, like, Mexico and Canada, like over, like, international travel nursing. So the process is difficult, but once you actually, um, you know, talk to a recruiter and talk to your people, um, it's a fairly simple process. So, um, you know, definitely, if you're trying to be a travel nurse, you know, I'd suggest to anybody. It's really nerve-wracking though, but they need travel nurses pretty, I mean, they want to do anything they can to get you in there, so they work with you pretty well.

Host: Yeah, yeah, so difficult but simple is what it sounded like. In terms of the time frame, how long are we talking between actually getting approved for travel nursing?

Guest: Oh gosh, you have to have your experience first, yeah. You have to, so, technically, for travel nursing, they really recommend you to have one to two years of experience just because when you get assigned to a job, you really only have like one day of training. So, like, you're just expected to know, like, all of these things, and, you know, if you don't, if you just go kind of blind, you know, it can be a disaster. Um, sometimes still is, you know, just 'cause every hospital is different. But I would say probably, I don't know, I started looking, I'd say around April or May, so I'd say maybe two to three months. It kind of just depends on how, you know, it's kind of like a you-driven thing too, you know, and how bad you want it. We kind of were just like, I don't really know if we want to do this, but I'll just go ahead and, you know, sign up and get all my ducks in a row, and then if we become more interested, we can go from there. So I'd say probably two to three months. I had to put in my two weeks, um, my two weeks at my previous job, and then, you know, find a job there. Um, in Pennsylvania was my first assignment, but it's pretty easy afterwards, though, yeah. Super easy, you have connections, you have about four different people who help you get like an experience specialist, you get your recruiter who really just helps you with, um, finding a job. You just have all different kinds of help with, but afterwards, after you get like your first job, then it's a lot easier. So it's like you can pretty much line up a job right after the next one if you want, as long as you have time to get there. So like she quit her last job, we had a week off, and I think it was like two weeks until she started her next contract, so she already signed one while she was working. Yeah, so you can sign with, you know, whatever company or whoever after you kind of get in it, just basically getting, getting your foot in the door, getting a reputation, and then you're able to kind of move wherever you want to go.

Host: You mentioned one day of training. That sounds crazy to me because I've been in hospitals where it seems like it would take a week just to figure out where to go, and you can get lost in some of these places. So that means you're showing up at this job for the first time, you're like maybe like a mini orientation training, getting to know everybody, and then you're kind of fed to the wolves and you're travel nursing and you're doing nursing.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, it's crazy. The knowledge has to be, um, you know, you just, you kind of just have to go in headfirst. Um, even now, I will say that I still, you know, sometimes don't know where everything's at or even like hospital policies, everything's different. So, you know, just don't be afraid to ask questions, definitely. Um, is my thing, but yeah, just one day of training and you are on your own.

Host: Wow. I would imagine that one day of training, obviously, it's a little bit more difficult to maneuver, and that comes with what we've heard is with travel nursing, there's higher pay rates, and there's the travel sties. Is that still the case today?

Guest: Yes, right, or they're not as high as they used to be. No, definitely not. During COVID, nurses were making a lot of money. Stipends are... I would say that, I mean, even for me, just going from just a low-paying nursing job in drop-in Missouri to now, I say that stipends are really good for me, but if you talk to the next person, they're like, "Oh, this sucks." You know, it's a pretty controversial space because some people will say it's good money, and other people say, "Oh, well, you shouldn't accept a job for lower than this rate," and people get kind of agitated. But the stipends are really what make it worth doing the travel nursing. Yeah, so I mean, the hourly rate has an effect, but the stipends really make it worth it. Yeah, so basically, like, travel nurses get paid, like, a really low hourly rate. Like, if you would know, you would just have to be mind blown. But they get paid a super low hourly rate so that way they can max out your stipends, which are tax-free. So in the end, like, you end up making more money. Sometimes you have to negotiate for those. You have to kind of watch out. And I mean, if you get a good recruiter, they'd be pretty good with you. But you can get on a website like gsa.gov, I think, and it'll tell you kind of what the stipends are in the area that you're at and stuff. We kind of dove into it head first, kind of like buying a car. It's kind of confusing when you first get into it. We didn't really know what we were doing. We dove head first and we didn't realize, you know, you have to do certain things to get, you know, the tax-free stipends. So it's for housing and what stipends are for. And you're supposed to duplicate expenses to get those stipends. So essentially, you're supposed to pay rent back where you are from, like your permanent tax home, right? So you have to have, like, a tax home. And you can look up the requirements for a tax home. And then you also are supposed to be paying rent somewhere else. So like where you're traveling to as a nurse. And those can be, like, shared housing. But you have to be paying, like, both at the same time. So like for us, now that we're getting ready to be in a van, whenever we're traveling somewhere, we have to stay at a campground because that'll be our rent.

Host: Okay, so there's no way around just boondocking the whole entire time. They want to see some sort of rent payment at the campsite.

Guest: Yeah, you have to have a paper trail to show. I mean, now there are people that don't do it, you know, and they say, "Oh, I've never been caught." But I mean, if you get audited by the IRS, you're gonna owe some big money back.

Host: Well, that's a really good tip you bring up, and I'm glad you bring that up about how you have to actually hunker down in a campsite and have proof of spending money on rent somewhere. 'Cause I have two sisters, one of them actually travel nurses. Both of them are nurses. We talked about before the podcast, one of them did travel nurse and the other one was, has been thinking about it. But I kind of told her, "Yeah, just get a van, get a dog, and just, you know, drive and boondock." But so they do want to see some source of income. So if you're listening to this, Jess or Chloe, make sure you're doing that.

Guest: Yeah, and we didn't have any idea. They just asked her where she worked at and where she was from, where we lived at, and they said, "Oh, well, you qualify for the stipends." And they kind of had a sign the paperwork and we had no idea. I think I found like a video, like on Facebook Reels or TikTok or something. I was like, "Hey, do you know about this?" And he's like, "What?" Yeah, so we had, so I had to do a lot of research on it and try to figure it out and, you know, it all worked and had to talk to an accountant, really confused. And this was the first time really we had even done anything like that. So we were like, "We don't even know what to do."

Host: Yeah, no, it's smart to do that. And I'm sure that might vary a little bit depending on your contracts. Do you know if, so I know you built out your van, so I don't think you owe anything on your van?

Guest: Yeah, we do. We financed the van. So we, for the, we, we financed the van.

Host: So I guess my next question was going to be if, if, like, you had a payment on your van or a camper, if that would count as rent. I'm not sure. Do you know if they would consider that?

Guest: I don't think so because, um, one of the people that we were, I mean, it is a good question. I'm not, I'm not for sure, so don't quote me. But, um, the person that we were kind of following off of, um, I believe they had theirs, uh, they had an RV, like a fifth wheel, and I believe, leased or not leased, but they had a lien on it or a loan, whatever you want to call it. I believe they still had to stay at a campground. Now, I mean, that is a good question. I'd have to look into that because I wonder about that.

Host: For sure. And if we can dig that up, I'll put a link in the show notes. So you talked about, I know your long-term play, you have your second van almost built and that's where you're going to be living in while you're travel nursing in the future moving forward. But right now you're signing these three to four-month kind of midterm leases, so they can be tricky to find, at least that's fully furnished. So how are you finding places to stay?

Guest: We go off, there's a lot of different places. But for my first one, we went off of Furnish Finders. So it's just like an Airbnb or like a Verbo for nurses or just any traveling professional. So it doesn't have to be a nurse, but they're marketed towards, you know, people that have, you know, like, I guess, could be like a welder or a nurse or, you know, anybody that works odd hours.

Guest: Yeah, we actually were on the other side of that coin. We have a couple rental properties, and we've rented two with Furnish Finders, travel nurses. We, we had like poets and authors who just come for like those shorter periods, yeah. But it is marketed towards travel nurses.

Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what that's what we use. Um, we looked at all avenues. We found Furnish Finders was cheaper than like Verbo, Airbnb, or even like we looked at hotels too, and it was just like thrown out of the picture because that's ridiculous. Um, from the time she decided she was going to do travel nursing, I think it was like two weeks before she signed her first contract, then we were like moving, yeah. And so we packed all our stuff in the back of a Jeep, and we hours away headed out to Pennsylvania. So it was a, was quite a ways. It seems like a lot of the travel nurses that she works with are just from around the area. So like right now, she's in, seems like a lot of people from Kansas. When she was in Pennsylvania, seemed like a lot, yeah. And they were like, "Oh my gosh, you're all the way from Missouri." And, you know, like I have an accent, and they're like, "Where are you from? We know you're from somewhere not around here."

Host: How far in advance have you found, so I would imagine you secure the contract many months in advance. But in terms of actually booking a place to stay, how far in advance are you planning that?

Guest: I mean, from your first one, it was like two weeks. We started looking, and it was like within two weeks, we were up there at a place.

Host: I would imagine does your travel agent help out with that at all in terms of finding places to go?

Guest: Yes, they offer, but I was already like halfway to finding a house before they were like, "Hey, you know, we'll help you if you need it." And I'm like, "That's great," but yeah, a lot of people do use, you know, their people assigned to help to do that. But I, I was so excited about my first assignment. I was just like, I had a house found, like, all these things before somebody even messaged me, and they were like, "Hey, do you need help finding a home?" I was like, "I already have one. I've already, you know, put a deposit down." They're like, "Oh, okay, well, never mind then." That first one we went, what was the population of that town? Like 80 people, something like that, in a very tiny Amish town.

Host: Get to see all sorts of places. And if you end up at a place you don't like that much, you're only there for like three, four months, so you can find another place. You mentioned you're working with Aya, and does that in terms of finding other places to go, are you limited to like hospitals that they own, or how does that work?

Guest: Nope, so every travel company is different. I just, A, is, I don't know, they're really popular, I guess you could say, like among travel nurses. So like, certain hospitals will have contracts with these travel companies, so A has a lot. But for say like, if you go to a different travel company, you know, they may be hiring at like these certain hospitals that don't have contracts with A. So it's different, but A holds a lot of contracts with a lot of hospitals. So I just went with them.

Host: And then how flexible in terms of how long do you want to stay somewhere for? If you want to stay there for like two months, four months, six months, are you able to kind of negotiate that? And then also like your actual hours, if you're working nights, days, how many hours a week, is that all negotiable?

Guest: Yep, so whenever you go to sign up for a job, it will tell you like whether it's a day shift or a night shift job. So I'm a day shift, so I work 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., usually 7:30 to 8:00 p.m. So I really am like a 13, 14-hour shifter. And then as far as like staying at that job for however long, you can actually stay up to a travel assignment for 364 days. You just can't work a full year because if you do, say like, I'm working in Topeka right now, I can stay there for 364 days. But if I stay there that 365th day, it's considered my tax home now, so it just kind of messes up a whole bunch of things. So you can extend at a job, you just let your recruiter know. Usually, they'll message you first and be like, "Hey, are you liking your assignment? Do you want to extend?" And I actually have accepted an extension in Topeka. So I'm there until April 27th. And then from there, if you decide to work the whole 364, all you have to do by law is take 30 days off, and then you can go right back to that same job for another year or 36. I think they cap it. Like, I think you can only do that for two years. There's, there's, I don't know exactly what it is. It's complicated, but there are a lot of like, logistical or maybe it's not logistical, but it's requirements. So you can only do things, I think, in certain states for so long, and every state is different, every state has different, yeah. I think that there's like, make it confusing. Yeah, yeah. But it seems to be that the most common are like 13-week contracts, and then there are some that are what, what's the other one, like eight? Yeah, they do, you can do four weeks if they're like a crisis job, which means that they just need you right away. You can go and sign for a four-week contract. And where you can go, usually the average is 13 to 26 weeks, so that's what I did on my first assignment. And now I'm at six weeks now on my second assignment.

Host: Yeah, I can definitely agree with that. A lot of options to extend. On the landlord side, we made it a point to ask our when we're hosting travel nurses if they're going to extend because we've had several times now where, like, we've gotten a booking after that lease is up but then they'll tell us, "Hey, can I extend?" And, like, oh, sorry, we just booked somebody else. So now we're actually actively asking like, hey, are you looking to extend? And then we'll do that because that does happen more often than not, when travel nurses in particular, they'll extend their stay.

Guest: Yeah, that, that's what our um, our landlord in Pennsylvania did. She like, about halfway through, she said, "Hey, you know, just going to post this up, you know, on Furnish Finders. So just wondering, you know, can I, can I show it to people and post it? Or are you guys planning to extend?" So yeah, that's, it is good that she asked.

Host: Yeah, for sure.

Guest: And your first assignment was a really good one for like, anybody that would want to try to get into it. I mean, if they were looking into like trying to just get their foot in the door and try it out and see if they liked it, I mean, she worked in a hospital in, um, what was it, Lewisburg, Pennsylvania? It's called Evangelical Community Hospital, a small little Community Hospital like 220 beds, pretty easy, tiny. And we stayed at a place called The Dong Village, and the landlords there were wonderful. I mean, and so like if you are looking into it and you're trying to just kind of find something that, you know, is good, know that, it's going to, not it's not going to be hard right off the bat, you're not going to be thrown to the wolves, like some of the other stuff. That's a good, you know, um, that's how we started or how she started, not me.

Host: Well, awesome guys. I think this was a really informative segment on getting into travel nursing. And I think it would be really cool to have you guys back on once you have your van up and mobile and you're actually travel nursing with your van to talk about how you guys are finding places to stay, how you've been acclimating to that lifestyle. But speaking of that, like I mentioned before, you guys have done not one but you're working on your second van conversion. So we can dig into that a little bit now. Before we talk about the actual build, I know you ran into a little bit of trouble actually acquiring the van. So what was that process like just getting your hands on the van?

Guest: Yeah, so I mean, we started the idea I think like four or five years ago that we wanted to do van life. And we were just, I mean, we're really, really young. I remember telling all my family at Christmas time that we wanted to live in a van. They all thought we were crazy. And so, so it took us a while after that to kind of, she had to graduate nursing school to be able to do that. We actually moved out, got an apartment because we lived with my parents until she was done with nursing school. We got an apartment, and we lived in an apartment for six months, and we decided we just were looking at the cost of what it was, you know, adding up to be. We didn't own the place, we kind of wanted to do something else. And I made a joke one night that we could move back in with my parents, and that we could save a ton of money and potentially do van life. And so, you know, it led into more serious conversation. We talked to my parents again, and of course, my parents, they're, you know, really chill, and they agreed, and they said, "Yeah, come on back." And so we moved back in with them, and we started working towards saving up to buy a van, which was kind of tough because she was a, she was a new nurse. I mean, anybody that works at a school tell you that the pay there is pretty low. So we moved back in with them, we started saving up, and we decided we were going to put a deposit down on one. It was, it was hard finding, oh my gosh, try to find, we, we decided we were going to try to get one, and we called, I don't know, probably 50 dealerships across the nation. We didn't really care where it was, we thought, well, we were going to drive anywhere, yeah, we would fly in or drive or do whatever it took. We called like 50 dealerships, you couldn't find them.

Host: Did you have like a specific van you wanted, or were you open to any type of?

Guest: So we wanted a ProMaster because of the cost. I mean, it's cheap. I think that there are better options if you have the budget for them, you know, that's just my personal opinion. A lot of people like, you know, there's Mercedes, there's Ford Transit, but we decided on ProMaster. And so anything that we found during that time, it was, you know, in the height of the pandemic, they had a called a market adjustment where they marked them up about 15 to 20,000. So it was crazy because you could order one, and we found a dealership in Arizona and they were going to order us one for MSRP. And we were initially told that it would take three or four months and we would have the van. And so we thought, well, that work. Ecstatic, we're like, oh yeah, that's great. And so I had just paid off my car the day before, and we didn't have any money. And the lady at the dealership said, "Orders will be closing any time now because they're going to start retooling for the next year." Luckily, I went to my mom for the second time in my life to borrow some money, and she loaned us a little bit of money to put a down payment on it. And that was stressful, and luckily, I got her paid back within two weeks. And so we put the down payment on, and we started buying stuff, trying to, yeah, accumulate all we would need for the van build. I sold the car that I had, that I paid off, and that kind of gave us the money to put towards the van. So we were going to finance the van and just use the money that I had from the car to buy all the stuff for it. We bought a lot of stuff. I think we bought like $10,000 worth of stuff before we even had the, yeah, and so we were waiting and waiting and waiting, and they were like, oh well, it's gonna come next month, oh, it's gonna come next month, it's gonna come next month. And it just started to get to the point where we were nine months in, and they kept saying it, and we didn't know, you know, we didn't know how long it was going to be um so we got really discouraged and I mean I'm really bad about it I I buy and sell vehicles all the time when I get bored and I think it's hard for me to kind of like stay on one thing so my mind was kind of racing on what else we could do and we just decided that we would sell all the stuff and any of the money that we made back from that we put towards you know another vehicle and we were just going to make it really fast so we bought another Mustang we canceled our order and um we had that Mustang for two months and we rolled across the dealership in town and they had a we had ordered a 159 ProMaster and um there was a 136 sitting on the lot of a local dealership and you couldn't hardly find them at the time so um we went and looked in the windows and I said we could really do this uh you know we can we can figure it out we could make this happen and so we looked in it the next day I went and test drove it and the next day after that I had a check in hand from the bank we purchased it the day after that I had contacted a dealership in Oklahoma that bought one of my friends cars and they said yeah we'll buy it so I took it down there and they bought it off of me and we started building our um our first van we had to buy it all over again so we bought all the stuff.

Host: That's incredible. So sold your car, ordered a van, ordered all the parts and material for the van, waited 9 months, didn't come in, sold the material, bought another car, and then you found that exact van you wanted for sale two months later and picked and then swapped them out. That's crazy. And I'm glad you bring that up because that's something a lot of people probably won't even consider when they're going to do a van build is actually it might take upwards of a year to actually get the van itself. And you, I know you mentioned you're constantly doing different things but also another thing you guys were excited, you had all this stuff, these parts lying around, you probably had coming up with designs and things you wanted to do and that probably made it more painful having to continue to wait and get the update, another month, another month. So, wow, I can say it's definitely dedication, the fact that you guys stuck it out and ended up finally getting your van. But that's crazy. Is that something you've seen? I know that was during COVID, right? So that's when materials and supplies were crazy. Has that tamed and kind of slowed down? Can it be easier to get one of those vans now, I would imagine?

Guest: Yeah, we just drove by one on the way here, like, to this podcast. We were at a sister's house and just right down the road there's just, we're like, "Hey, look, there's one just sitting out front." And they actually had one in the back, too. So much easier. Yeah, I think the biggest struggle, though, with the whole thing was also watching, like, you know, I think that it's, you know, a lot of the people that do van life don't do it forever. I think that's like an important thing to know when you're getting into it, is that like most people don't do it forever and a lot of people get burnt out with it. There are some people that don't. Kind of got to know what you're wanting out of it. But like when we had all our stuff, I mean, we started buying stuff and looking into doing things, it was a little over a year before that. And so some of the people that we had met and made friends with and we were excited to do it, we watched them build their vans, they had already sold their stuff, too. But as far as like getting ahold of vans, uh, yeah, it's a lot easier now. I think that, I think that the wait times can still be somewhat long depending on where you order it from. On the second van, we just rolled into town, there was one on the lot. And it's kind of crazy because the car market has dropped tremendously. I mean, it fell on spas really. So we looked at our van, it was, uh, 30, 39,000. And when we came back just a few weeks later after she finished her assignment, it dropped all the way down to like 33. So I, it was, it was within a matter of like four to six weeks, the market's definitely changing.

Host: Those inflated prices are finally coming down. I was curious, you bought, so you bought parts and material for the van, how did you know what to buy? Are there like websites or kits you can buy that are custom for like specific van frames? Or how'd you go about doing that?

Guest: Yeah, so a lot of the stuff we bought, um, at the beginning was like electrical stuff, we knew we were going to need that. Um, there are websites. We follow a lot of um, schematics from uh, Far Out Ride is one of the websites. There's another one that does sell more of like kits, um, Explorist.life. I think is what it's called, his Nate Yarbrough. Um, and I mean, he's got a ton of information. You can buy schematics on there. Um, and I've referenced those. I haven't bought any from it. Um, but yeah, we just kind of started sizing up our electrical system, and we went with some of the more expensive components. On our first one, we bought a bunch of Victron stuff, and you know, the wiring, the wire itself can be expensive as well. And then just little stuff that we wanted in it. So we didn't buy any like wood, most of it was just, you know, things you would need to get started. Um, and I don't, I don't even know what all we spent. I mean, we spent a bunch of money on a lot of stuff. I think mostly it was electrical though.

Host: So obviously, so you ended up selling that first van that you converted. Why did you end up selling it?

Guest: Well, it was just really, we found out really fast that when we started it, it was just the two of us and we didn't really, I didn't want a dog, but we ended up with one. And so, and I love him to death. I was never an animal person. We went into a place, my sister was looking at a dog, and my parents wanted to go look at the dogs, and we went in there, and there was this little dog in there, and we just fell in love with him. And now I'm an animal person. So, but found out it was just, it got really tight, really fast with two people and a dog. And then the other thing was, is that we didn't put an air conditioner in it. And so, really hot, a lot of people say, you know, I've heard a lot of people say that they can get by with just two fans, you know, you don't need to spend the money on the air conditioner, and that's great if you can chase the weather and stuff. But we live in the Midwest, and it gets really hot, really hot. And so, by the time we had finished that van, I think we kind of knew we were in trouble because it was just really hot. I mean, we couldn't even barely finish it because we were so hot. It was, you know, it'd be like 80 degrees, 85 degrees outside, and it'd be over 100 degrees in the van. And, you know, you could have the fans on and it'd still be like 96. We just got to thinking, she wanted to do travel nursing and if she needed to take a job in like Arizona or something in the heat of the summer, we needed to be able to, you know, go there and live comfortably. We also needed something that would keep our dog safe as well. And so, we ultimately decided to sell it because we would have needed to upgrade our electrical system, we would have needed, you know, tear out a lot of the ceiling, and at that point, we were just kind of over it. We were just done with building, it took a long time and all of our friends that we had met were like done, so we were just like, we don't, you know, we just, we're done with it too, we were discouraged. So, we just decided to sell it, um we posted up because she wanted to do travel nursing um she had already signed a contract by the time that we posted it for sale and a couple uh flew in from South Carolina and bought it for what we had in it so we didn't make any money off of it it was almost I mean it was like 95% finished and um so they got a good deal on it but uh we just knew we needed something different than that.

Host: Well, at least despite the prices coming down, you didn't take a bath on it, so with the next van, you put the air conditioning in. Were there any other modifications you're doing with this one that you didn't do the first time?

Guest: Yeah, I mean, we're not going to put a shower in this one. Sounds gross, yeah, but we're counting on is we'll try to stay at RV parks that have showers while she's on her contract. We tried to put one like a hidden shower, like a shower and a bench in our last van, and by the time you got the shower pan and then you set the toilet on top of the shower pan, it was like an awkward height, so the bench in there was really uncomfortable to sit on. Really wasn't needed. I mean, you've got Planet Fitness, you've got truck stops, and my buddy is a trucker and he just, we pretty much have unlimited showers at truck stops when we need them, so that's nice. But we weighed out a lot of different options too on like whether we should go with a van. Crazy enough before we even bought this second van we thought we were gonna buy, we were gonna buy an Airstream. I bought a truck actually and I sold it within two days, it's crazy, but I bought a truck and sold it two days later because we decided we were gonna go do a van. So we weighed out the options and really for us a van was the most economical option. By the time you factor in like fuel mileage, so like, you know, there's the three big ones for us was like a class a camper, or RV I guess you call it, or like a pool behind. We looked into even doing like an ambulance, but we even looked at an ambulance New York or Pennsylvania somewhere, yeah, yeah. But by the time you spend fuel on those, it gets to be really expensive. I mean, a half-ton truck, it's like, you know, the older trucks like the one I had was gonna get like nine miles per gallon. A lot of the diesel stuff, it's just high maintenance costs, higher fuel costs, and I didn't know how to work on a diesel. That was a big one for us and so we didn't wanna terrify because if we break down on the road, you know, I'm at the mercy of a mechanic and diesel mechanics are very expensive. So the van just made sense for us, you know, you don't have to have insurance on two vehicles, you just have insurance on the van itself, you can drive wherever you need, now that, that can be a downfall, but we plan to get, like, it's like a dirt bike, a street legal dirt bike later on that we'll use, put a carrier on the back of the van as our secondary Transportation so we don't always have to take it.

Host: Were there any mistakes you made with the first or the second build that you want to share that could potentially save a future listener some trouble?

Guest: Oh gosh, don't overcomplicate it. Yeah, I mean, I was going to say, he knows more about that stuff, I'm kind of just, if you had anything to add, go ahead, but I mean, I think in our first one, we just tried to really pack everything in. We wanted a shower, we wanted, you know, a toilet, we wanted, you know, a kitchen area and stuff. I think that you really find out a lot of stuff when you take your first trip in it. I mean, if you have the money, I know that some people don't have a huge budget to do a van, somebody I'd mentioned this before and somebody said, well, I'd rather take the money that I would use to rent a van, van, and just put it towards my build. But if you have the money to rent a van, I would definitely recommend renting one out and kind of seeing what you use and what you don't, how you like the layout and how you don't, because I think from the first trip that we took, and ours was put together, we realized a lot of things, like our cabinets were really close to our bench and so it made it difficult underneath the sink because we had two cabinets that opened out where you have to be in between them because there wasn't enough room to get past so you were leaning over the cabinet or you had to, you know, wed yourself in there open them up. So there's just a lot of things that you don't think about. Another one was like the shower situation. We thought we were going to put a shower in this one too, our second conversion and we just ultimately decided that we wanted to open feel, we didn't want to feel like we were closed in like our first one, our first van was pretty small was a 136, we've got a 159 now and we just wanted to keep the open feel. Like I said, a lot of the campgrounds have showers, there's a lot of other options, I mean, it just depends on what's important to you. So you know, really think it out, look at other people, ask questions if you can, the best thing you can do is, you know, rent an in or even if you buy one, uh, just try to take a trip in it, you need a lot less than you really think you do.

Host: I think you're totally right about the fact that it's, it's your lifestyle, it's going to revolve around what you're doing, like for example, if you're working at your van, you're boondocking all over the place, you're going to want probably a shower and have those facilities, but if you're travel nursing and you're kind of forced to stay at campgrounds, you're going to be using those facilities anyways so you don't necessarily need those in your van so there's a lot to consider before actually getting started there.

Guest: Yeah, there's a lot of new tech too that is appealing to a lot of people. They're like, "Oh, I want to put this and this and this." So, like, I know, like, a hydronic floor is, like, I think it's hydronic heated floor is what they call it. A lot of people like to put those and they're... they're, to me, they're really complex and stuff. So, like, I don't... I don't need it, you know? It may be something for somebody else. But, you know, the simpler, in my opinion, the better, the less to go wrong, kind of figure it all out too. So, I feel like the heated floor is just one shake in the van away from that wire to come loose and then for it to just not work right.

Host: Well, great, guys. This was a really deep dive into, I guess, not just one but two van builds. I think this is definitely helpful for a lot of people, not just with the build process but also expectations in terms of ordering and the timeline, the overall timeline. So, once you had it, I just want to ask one last question before we wrap up and transition. But how long did that first and second van build take once you actually had the van?

Guest: So, our first one took us eight months. Um, we thought it would take us a lot less. We had originally planned on, like, three to four. Took us eight months. We did it in the middle of the winter too, so there were times we both had full-time jobs. Um, so, a lot of... I mean, we didn't work on it but a couple days on the weekends when I had off. It was kind of hard to get our schedules in line because there were sometimes where she would work on weekends and there's a lot of tasks that just require two people, you know, some of those long boards, trying to put them up on the ceiling or cut them. You know, I didn't have an outfeed table for a saw so I needed somebody to help me hold the boards up while I cut them. So, it was really kind of tough and we didn't work on it for like a month or two on our first one in the middle of winter just because it was so cold and the motivation was very low. Yeah, and you start... the end of it, I mean, towards the end of your first build can kind of be... I don't know, hard. I mean, you can kind of struggle just knowing how long it's taking you.

Host: I definitely don't think people can underestimate the... I guess determination. I can't think of the word but resilience, I guess, in terms of, you know, the mindset of building it, kind of getting demotivated, realizing it's not necessarily the van for you but then, you know, continuing and being resilient and getting another one and doing it the way you want it.

Guest: Yeah, it's... it was tough. Our second one's gone faster. We bought it in October. I don't... I didn't do the math off the top of my head but we're planning to have it done within the next, uh, nine weeks is the plan. Um, we're almost done. I mean, we're... we're on track to finish it. We got, you know, just a little bit stuff we got to make cabinets and, um, just, you know, little stuff add trim and and that kind of stuff.

Host: But like I said you've already taken a few trips in it so it's drivable it's livable just kind of the finishing touches. We'll jump ahead a little bit. Um, what has been the coolest travel experience you guys have had so far? It could be with your van or not with your van.

Guest: So, one of the coolest places we've taken our van, I think the one we enjoyed most was going to South Dakota, which... or, I... we took a couple, so that... I think that was like the first trip that we took when our van was almost completely finished and we met up actually with some friends through Instagram, which kind of sounds a little creepy but they ended up being really good friends. And we actually got to stay, like, on our first, I guess, like, BLM land I guess you say. Actually, we were in a forest. We stayed on BLM land though, so we got to, you know, like, actually, yeah, we did. We got to actually experience that versus, you know, just staying, you know, in a campground or like on the side of a street or something. It was like the full like van life experience. We stayed right on the edge of the badlands, so they have Wall Wall, South Dakota, I think is what it's called where Wall Drug is. A lot of people know what that is. It's like a big General Store. It's really popular, really cool. I mean, there's not, to me, there's not a bunch in South Dakota but the Badlands is kind of the biggest, you know, and that and Mount Rushmore. So, we went up there and that was... that was about the coolest that we got the experience in that and we stayed right on the edge. They had some BLM land. We woke up to cows scratching our head on the back of the van, go... I was breaking in our van, it was rocking back and forth, we weren't sure what was going on but it was awesome. Yeah, it was... it was a neat experience. I mean, we just got to hang out and it just makes you feel like you're living life really freely, like.

Host: That's something I wanted to wake up to, like, just seeing bison or cows or something like brushing up against the van. I would open up and look out and like they're not there yet but that's really cool. So, your van was like shaking cuz there was a cow brushing up against it?

Guest: Yeah, the door hinges on the back, they kind of stick out on and it, they were doing it to like all like we were with, I don't know how many people were there but they were just going down the line like everybody there, I guess it was like a natural alarm, guess? Yeah, which it was wild. We were there for a couple nights and then we didn't see cows, we didn't even know there were cows there and all of a sudden, hundreds, and they were all around, we were surrounded by them. So, that's funny.

Host: That's cool, that's a good experience, yeah. Alright guys, if you could have listened to this podcast when you were first starting out on your van life, your travel nurse journey, and there was a question that you wish I would have asked tonight that I didn't, what would that question be and how would you answer that now?

Guest: Oh, that's a good one, the question. I don't know the answer to that one. Um, I think it... I think I would just be more interested in like, um, like budget, really. I mean, it's so... it's so hard because how much money do you need to have saved up for this? And, yeah, so like, really what people spend on gas, um, you know, that's a big one for me because it's so hard to know kind of what that is. Um, you know, how much you spend. And I know that's different for everyone but um, it's really tough to get like an understanding of what the budget will be like. Even now, we're not really sure what we're going to spend. We're planning to take four months off but we have really no idea what it's going to cost. We try to do some calculations on like how much we're going to drive and the gas prices in those areas and what it's going to be but really like, I think the budget is just the hardest part to know what it's like for somebody that's going to actually travel, not just sit in one place but like, really travels.

Host: In terms of the budget, that's something that completely like blew our socks off was going cross country. We spent way more on fuel than we expected to. And one tip we learned, talking with Dylan in episode one, we actually have a blog post about this I'll link in the show notes, but you take your mileage and you add like a 50% buffer. So, you do your entire trip and add 50% to that because you'll be shocked at how much time and miles you spend driving back and forth, whether National Park Loops or, you know, back and forth of destinations. It was almost like for both of us 50% more than what that Google Maps itinerary told us. That was one good way and then of course, the price of gas varies. I think either way it's going to be more than you expect but if you can, you know, put as much of a buffer on that as you can. We actually had, uh, on episode 13 with, um, Lur and Jason, they were the only guest so far that paid that had money left over after the trip because they... they just anticipated out west to be super expensive, California and just really, really saved up for it and it ended up not being as much as they expected. But there are a few ways you can prepare but it is tough to nail down a price point in terms of budgeting for the van build. Did you have like a number, rough number on how much that cost to build out that you wanted to share?

Guest: Yeah, so our first one, we bought our first van, um, it was a 136 ProMaster. It had about 60,000 miles on it and we bought that for $38,000 and we spent around $17,000 on the conversion. And I think that was more on the high side. We didn't really skimp on anything. I wanted, you know, nice materials. I wanted the cabinets to be made out of like, um, birch. Um, and so we probably spent more than I guess the average person. And then I think on the second one, we bought our van for $34,500. There was some kind of weird markups on there. I know that I said that it was marked down to like $33,000 but it was, it's kind of confusing, I guess you have to have like a trade-in and finance through them. It's, to me, it's like a dealership scam but we end up paying $34,500 for our van and I think we're going to have right around 20 grand in it and that's with an air conditioner, inverter, and two extra batteries. Yeah, we beefed up our electrical system a lot on this one so, you know, you may give or take a little bit. I would probably say anywhere from like 20 to 22. We haven't added it up yet but I think we're right in that range.

Host: Nice, well thank you for sharing that. And then for someone who's listening to this podcast who wants to get into this kind of travel nursing, van life lifestyle but aren't quite there yet, what is one thing they can do today to get started?

Guest: I mean really just cut out all the unnecessary stuff. Like that's the biggest way that we started saving for it was, you know, you can look at your expenses and cut out a lot. I mean, you... you list it all out, um, get rid of unnecessary subscriptions. I mean, heck, even like, um, your vehicle insurance, I mean a lot of people overpay for vehicle insurance and so, you know, you can go through many agencies and get free quotes. I mean, it doesn't do anything, you know, it's just literally a free quote, um, to see if you can save money on that and just really kind of skimping on everything. So, we cut down like our phone bills, we went to straight talk. I mean, it was far less. We just paid for our phones out of pocket. Um, we have less expenses there and just cut out everything we didn't need. What were you saying about the travel nursing part, just how to get into it?

Host: I guess just a lifestyle and obviously with that you would need to, um, have the degree and everything else but I guess the first step probably be just pursuing it.

Guest: Getting in touch with the travel agency or going through the application process. Otherwise, I would say, you know, just do it. I just don't even really think about it, don't overthink about it, just put in your application and get connected with somebody. Just do it. Yeah, it's... it's not a bad... I mean, Courtney was really nervous about getting into it, she wasn't really sure what to think, of course you like we mentioned earlier there's only one day of orientation, you know, she... whether she didn't know enough but and I'm really, I get really nervous, um, like with change so I was, "Oh my gosh, I don't know how I'm going to function like talking to people, like, questions," like, "I'm just going to have to get over that fear," you know, and just... and just do it. So, it's got much better. I still get a little nervous um, before my assignments start but um, it's even compared to the first one, it's gotten much better but it seems like with nursing a lot of it is like that, everybody's still learning all the time. I mean, like, yeah, there's... there's always going to be something that you can learn better with so it, for the most part, iht's from her experience and maybe I'm wrong here, you'll have to correct me, but it seems like they're all willing to help out and you know, help you with things that you might not know if it's something that you've never done before. There's usually somebody there that has, and just don't be scared, you know? Try it. If it's not for you, you know it's not permanent.

Host: Yeah, at least you tried, and you got out of your comfort zone, which a lot of people don't do, so yeah, and you're enjoying it so far. And then yeah, like cutting expenses is never a bad place to start like you said there Dakota. Well, great. Have there been any YouTube channels, books, or other influences that inspired you guys to get on the road and travel?

Guest: Yeah, um, you want me to talk about it or you want to? Okay, you can. Okay, so the second van build we were really inspired by Jimmy and Natalie. Um, I don't know if you know who they are. They have a YouTube channel, I think they have like 45,000 subscribers. Actually, copying their layout exactly because it just seems like it's simple enough, it's not overcomplicated. Yeah, yeah. So, we just thought the functionality worked for us. It had everything we needed. But as far as like first getting started with Van life, there was a lady named Liz Bryant. She has a YouTube, I don't think she really uploads to it anymore, called "Wild by the Mile". She was a solo, like the OG solo female vanlifer, and um, that was the first time I'd ever really seen anybody do van life and that was what really inspired me because it just seemed so awesome, you know? It's wake up by the beach every day and just kind of live life on your own terms and have your own freedom. So seeing that, seeing what she did, it was really inspiring to us. I mean, I think there's good and bad that come with it, but I think the good far outweighs any of the complications that, you know, you have in Van life.

Host: Otherwise, you wouldn't be doing a second van build, right? Thank you guys. I'll put a link in the show notes for those two channels you mentioned there and while our audience is checking out those channels, one more time, where can they find out more about you?

Guest: We have an Instagram, it's @kodaandcourt. And that's really all we have right at the moment. I mean, we have a YouTube channel, but we're a little camera shy, so just getting over the fear of hearing your own voice and you know, that. So, we might, you know, eventually do something with that, but right now we're just kind of not. We're not, we're not like keeping up with Instagram. We post stories and stuff, but I think we're going to post more when, you know, she's not working. So we're trying to work on being better about it. But yeah, any questions, you know, anybody can reach out. I'd love to help people whether it's, you know, car-related stuff, if somebody's having trouble with their vehicle or, you know, travel nursing, or build, you know, van build questions, you know, we're just, we love to answer questions and help people out.

Host: Great, yeah, we'll put a link in the description for your channel as well and camera shy but we could definitely not tell and you guys rock this interview. There's a ton of valuable information here. We're excited to get out and share. Um, last question so our audience doesn't stay in suspense. What are we talking about for part two in travel tips?

Guest: We're going to talk about Juniper Springs, I guess it's in the Okala National Forest, so in Florida.

Host: Alright everybody, keep an eye out for that episode airing in 2 days. Dakota and Courtney, thanks again.

Guest: Thank you.