Gordon T. Smith joins us to talk about the position of the church in a secular age. Do we stay put? Do we form a moral enclave? How does worship form us into disciples? Join us for this conversation on the words and practices that form our imaginations: liturgical and sacramental. Gordon T. Smith is currently president of Ambrose University and the…

"Maybe religion, for all of its faults, works a bit like a retaining wall to hold back the destabilizing pressure of American hyper-individualism, which threatens to swell and spill over in its absence.” So writes Derek Thompson in The Atlantic. In this episode, as part of the series on worship and formation, Ashley and Bryce discuss Thompson's art…

How do things like gratitude and thanksgiving form us? In this conversation with Cornelius Plantinga on his latest book, Gratitude, we talk about the importance of gratitude, sin, confession, and growth in the worshipping life of a church. We also talk about practical next steps and what the global church has to teach North American churches. Links…

Andrew Wilson, pastor and historian, writes about the context of the WEIRDER world in Remaking the World. We wanted to dig deep on the way this context affects Christian worship and practice. Listen in for helpful terms, thoughtful analysis, and how we might actually believe what we say we believe. Links: Andrew Wilson, Remaking the World: How 1776…

We all know technology forms us -- but how? How does technology intersect with our spiritual lives? It's tempting to just toss tech out the window, but how do we think more Christianly about the tech we use? Whether as parents or leaders, we have to reckon with the affect of technology on our affections. We end the episode with a few small, practic…

How do our brains grow? What does lasting change look like? Where do things like character and pain fit? Curt Thompson brings neurobiology and the hope of the gospel together to live out a formationally-minded Christian life in this episode. We talk about how durable transformation happens often through suffering, the reasons for Christian hope, co…

Everything we do forms us. How does this apply to the tasks of the church, like worship? We've considered some of the trends: de-churching, loneliness, and culture wars. What's really happening in worship, why do we do it? Join us as we pull back the curtain as we consider how worship is more than preferences, it's about formation. A formative view…

Need a book for someone on your list about leadership, culture, or a good piece of literature? Find out what are some of our most memorable reads from this year! Please take a minute to rate and review The Cartographers. It'll be a terrific present for us. We'll back in 2024! Resources mentioned: Watkin, Biblical Critical Theory Key, How to Stay Ma…

If you've been hurt or are unsure about how to engage in community, this interview with Justin Whitmel Earley on his book, Made for People, is a great starting place. Listen in to Bryce Hales and Ashley Hales as they speak with Justin about creating community in the church and in your neighborhoods. It's a practical starting place that follows up f…

Why have so many people left the church? Is it a result of the pandemic, or are the issues much deeper? In the next several episodes we'll discuss what this is about and what can be done. Listen in for surprising trends and practical ways churches can love their neighbors. Michael Graham is a co-author of The Great Dechurching. The Cartographers is…

What did we learn about the culture wars? What's providing us with hope? And, what's coming next on The Cartographers? We'd love it if you rated and reviewed the show. Share an episode with a friend! Other episodes in this series: Episode 1: Stuck in the Middle Episode 2: How'd we Get Stuck in the Middle? Episode 3: A Culture War Alternative with M…

What if humor was more than just a way to break tension or get a laugh? Humor takes the air out of anger, leads towards forgiveness, and provides a way to opt out of culture war thinking. In this thoughtful, funny, and moving conversation, Bryce and Ashley sit down with Harrison Scott Key, author of How to Stay Married. They speak about restoration…

Are the culture wars a White thing? How do we think about race in America and the church? What might be the way forward? In this hopeful conversation with Pastor Brandon Washington he describes his multi-ethnic ministry and how the gospel compels us to strive for deliberate and sacrificial integration—the unity of believers of all ethnicities. Be s…

When the world feels unstable, we double-down on fear and tribalism. Beauty is an antidote to culture war fear. Hear one New York writer's story of conversion and how the Christian gospel is more solid than secularism in this episode with Susannah Black Roberts. You can follow Suzannah Black Roberts on Twitter, Plough, or read her Substack with hus…

When your job is politics, how do you get away from the rhetoric and tribalism of the culture wars? In this episode, Bryce Hales and Ashley Hales talk with Peter Wehner, a contributing editor for The Atlantic and a former presidential speech writer, about navigating culture war topics. Pete Wehner is a Senior Fellow at Trinity Forum @trinityforum; …

What happens if you've been a victim of the culture war? When Daniel Darling was fired from a prominent evangelical organization, he knew he needed not to capitulate to the culture wars, but to find a robust unity. His newest book, Agents of Grace, embodies one way to move beyond warring factionalism and embody the gospel Christians believe. Be sur…

Need an alternative to online culture warmongering? On this episode, Bryce Hales and Ashley Hales talk with Mark Labberton, President Emeritus of Fuller Theological Seminary, about how exile is the paradigm we need for this cultural moment. Be sure to listen, subscribe and share. We'd love if you shared these episodes with a friend or family member…

On this series, "Stuck in the Middle," we're talking to leaders like you who feel pulled into multiple directions in the latest iteration of the culture wars. (Here's the first episode if you missed out on that). On this episode, Bryce Hales and Ashley Hales talk about the questions they bring to the table, the origin of the term "culture wars", wh…

If you feel like you're stuck in the middle of polarization, disinformation, and decision fatigue this new series on the "culture wars" is for you! In this short intro, Bryce Hales and Ashley Hales share some of their hopes to help guide the conversation around partisanship and tribalism so that leaders can chart a pathway through the culture wars.…

How can we get out of bed each morning? Alan Noble's On Getting Out of Bed is a gentle reminder to do the next right thing when you or someone you love experiences mental affliction. In this conversation, Bryce Hales and Ashley Hales talk about Alan's work, what the redemption of Jesus means for depression and anxiety, and how to move beyond perfor…

How do modernity, technology, brain science, and spiritual formation work together? In this wide-ranging and fascinating conversation, Bryce and Ashley sit down with Curt Thompson, MD, who deftly combines interpersonal neurobiology and Christian faith. We talk about institutions, the lack of fruitfulness amongst Christians, and developing a Christi…

Can the church be a place for disillusioned people? In this conversation, Bryce Hales and Ashley Hales talk with Sara Billups about the ways consumer-driven and end-times-focused Christian belief shaped a generation. Listen in for thoughtful commentary and a way forward. Resources mentioned: Sara Billups, Orphaned Believers: How a Generation of Chr…

Bryce Hales and Ashley Hales interview Christopher Watkin about the story the bible tells as an interpretative lens. We speak about the issue of critical theory, how his book Biblical Critical Theory is useful, and how it might help us over and against a culture war lens. LINKS Christopher Watkin's book, Biblical Critical Theory Find out more about…

How do we think about our days, weeks, and seasons? In this conversation with Glenn Packiam, Ashley Hales and Bryce Hales talk about emotional health for leaders, the difference between information and transformation, and how an intentional year fits in. Resources mentioned: Holly Packiam and Glenn Packiam, The Intentional Year Glenn Packiam, The R…

What does it look like to grow old -- not just in years but in wisdom? How are young men growing in maturity? What does emotional health look like? Part of charting the cultural landscape for Christian leaders is paying attention to our spiritual health and the need for sage guides. Bryce Hales and Ashley Hales speak to counselor Chris Bruno about …

How do our limits lead us towards love? What is our understanding of the human person within the sphere of faith? How do we actually live out a kingdom ethnic in this day and age? Part of charting the cultural landscape for Christian leaders is a full understanding of the human person. In this conversation, Ashley Hales and Bryce Hales speak with D…

How do we move through pain? What forms can we use to practice communal identity with others and promote honesty before God? How do liturgies form us? Part of charting the cultural landscape for Christian leaders is promoting forms for communal and historical identity, rather than a flippant individualism. In this interview, Ashley Hales speaks to …

Finding Holy is transitioning to The Cartographers: Mapping the Cultural Landscape for 21st century Christian Leaders. Join Ashley Hales and Bryce Hales as they have conversations with guests in a changing cultural landscape. Escape the same thoughtful commentary and questions, wise ways forward, and a new emphasis on the intersection between spiri…

In this third conversation with Jen Pollock Michel, we talk about how a rule of life helps lower our time-anxiety. This is a practical tool to cooperation with the work of God and of grace in our lives. We talk about the power of attention, the way of wisdom, and practical ways to move through December and January. LINKS Jen’s new book, In Good Tim…

In this second conversation this Advent season, Jen Pollock Michel and I talk about how to keep time (not save it or spend it). How do we approach the time that we have? We talk what a rule of life is. This is a timely conversation now, but is great for end-of-year and beginning-of-the-year thoughts, planning and goals! Here's how not to get overwh…

Do you feel rushed or overwhelmed this time of year? During Advent, Ashley speaks with Jen Pollock Michel about how we might better think about living in the time that is given to us. In this episode we talk about the time anxiety that attends us during the holiday rush and some practical steps forward. We're also giving away 5 copies of In Good Ti…

What does it mean to practice time-keeping as a Christian? In this episode, Ashley sits down with Hannah Anderson to talk about Advent, our need for liturgies, and what creation can teach us. Listen in and grab a copy of Hannah's book. LINKS Hannah and Nathan's book, Heaven and Nature Sing Follow Hannah on Twitter Hannah's website Ashley’s most rec…

Are you overwhelmed? Ashley Hales talks with Ann Swindell about her devotional, The Path to Peace. As we walk through the lives of several biblical characters, we'll begin to see that the point is less to do with our circumstances and more about knowing God. Listen in to this hopeful conversation. LINKS Ann's website, including her writing courses …

In this conversation with Glenn Packiam, Ashley talks with Glenn about resilience, discipleship and ways to move forward. Chock full of hope, data, and practical steps. Listen in. LINKS Glenn's website Rockharbor Church Glenn's book, The Resilient Pastor Resilient pastor resources (podcast, cohorts, etc). Ashley’s most recent book, A Spacious Life …

In this conversation, Ashley talks with Gem Fadling about low-grade anxiety, a Christian's thought life and how we might notice and discern the voices in our heads to "take every thought captive." Listen in to a practical conversation. LINKS Follow Gem and Unhurried Living on Instagram Unhurried Living, Inc. Replenish Community Gem's most recent bo…

In this episode, Ashley and Bryce Hales sit down with Angie Ward, editor of Kingdom and Country, a book that helps us discern allegiance to Christ our King and what our relationship to the nation might be. In this conversation, we chat about ideas surrounding Christian nationalism and what postures we might take in this moment in time. LINKS Kingdo…

Ashley and Bryce Hales talk with journalist Bonnie Kristian about our knowledge crisis and what we can do about it. While it can feel like people aren't even living in the same reality anymore, Bonnie gives some practical and hopeful starting places in our day and age. We highly recommend her book! LINKS Bonnie's book, Untrustworthy: How the Knowle…

Ashley sits down with Shannan Martin as they talk together about how to be a good neighbor -- in our neighborhoods and in virtual spaces, too. Get some great ideas on how to grow your relationships in Shannan's newest book, Start with Hello. LINKS Shannan on Instagram Shannan's book, Start with Hello Shannan's substack We mention a conversation wit…

What does it mean to live a sacramental life? Ashley is joined by Bryce Hales for this invigorating conversation with Anglican pastor, Aaron Damiani. We talk about practical starting places when we can't think our way to God, feel our way to God, or serve our ways to God. Listen in -- you'll find some hope for belief in this moment in time. LINKS A…

Ashley Hales sits down with Amanda Held Opelt to talk about how we might normalize grief, pain, loss and death. With her background in aid work, she thought she would prepared, but wasn't when her sister Rachel Held Evans was hospitalized and died. But studying grief rituals was one way through. Listen in to this hopeful, thoughtful and rich conver…

What do we do with our questions? In this conversation, Ashley talks with Lore Ferguson Wilbert about questions faith poses and what a curious faith looks like. This conversation moves past hot takes on deconstruction and into the questions we ask of God, he asks of us, and we ask together in community. Listen in. LINKS Sign up for Lore's substack …

Weekly episodes are back! Join us each Tuesday as we connect the dots between big ideas and everyday life in culture, theology, and the arts. Expect thoughtful, deep and lively conversation and guests' laundry routines! This week, Ashley sits down with Andrew Arndt to talk about the gifts of the desert fathers and mothers. You'll hear about Andrew'…

Join Ashley as she talks with Mark Sayers about his recent book, A Non-Anxious Presence, and all about church renewal, church hurt, and hope for institutional clarity and mission in this moment and time. Mark Sayers is pastor of Red Church in Melbourne, Australia, and podcast host of Rebuilders. Not to be missed! LINKS Mark's latest book, A Non-Anx…

Ashley Hales interviews Mako Fujimura on his artistic process, how faith and art meet and collide and give hope for sorrow and our cultural moment. Not to miss! LINKS Learn more about Mako Art + Faith book Art + Faith group reading guide Academy Kintsugi Ashley’s most recent book, A Spacious Life is in paperback, ebook and audio. You can find out m…

Ashley talks with Austin Carty about how reading forms us as leaders, how we can get started reading again, and some practical steps forward, especially for pastors and leaders. Pick up a book today and become less anxious, more content, and more empathetic. Listen in. LINKS Austin’s book: The Pastor’s Bookshelf: Why Reading Matters for Ministry Ot…

Ashley talks with Eric Costanzo, an author (along with Daniel Yang and Matt Soerens) of Inalienable, about hope for the American church. We don't have to give up on Jesus' bride, but we do need to find ways to heal. Listen in to Eric's practical and thoughtful wisdom about how to live with hope for the church. Listening to and learning from margina…

Ashley talks with Beth Silvers (one half of the Pantsuit Politics duo, along with Sarah Stewart Holland) about how we move forward with grace and hope in politics, in community, and with one another. Listen in for some practical ways to think institutionally, act kindly, and reknit our social fabric. LINKS Beth and Sarah's book: Now What? How to Mo…

Ashley talks with Gordon T. Smith on calling, vocation and how all of what we do matters — not just our careers. LINKS Gordon’s book, Your Calling Here and Now Susan Scott, Fierce Conversations Ashley’s most recent book, A Spacious Life is in paperback, ebook and audio. Sign up for Ashley’s substack here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit pod…

Ashley talks with Hannah Nation and Ryan Zhang about their work with the book, Faith in the Wilderness: a book translating Chinese pastors' sermons on the intersection of the pandemic and persecution. Listen in to hear what Hannah (as the editor) and Ryan (as a translator) learned about resilience and growth and what the Chinese church can teach th…

Ashley talks with Amy Julia Becker about healing and wholeness for persons, places, and communities. Listen in to this conversation about the wellness industry, the healing Jesus offers, and some practical steps foward. LINKS Amy Julia’s book, To Be Made Well White Picket Fences And for fun: Dryel dry cleaning product! Ashley’s most recent book, A …