We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.
Interviews with Scholars of Systems and Cybernetics about their New Books Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/systems-and-cybernetics
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Relationship Matters


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Ep. 26 Building Belonging in Relationship
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In this episode, Katie talks with Mike Holton, COO and faculty member at CRR Global, about the importance of building belonging in our relationships. Across this conversation they discuss: Belonging as a form of acceptance The individual work that we can only do together Making the unconscious conscious Learning how to bring more belonging to our r…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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David LePoire, "Time Patterns in Big History: Cycles, Fractals, Waves, Transitions, and Singularities" (2020)
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There is the common saying, “history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.” Are there any discernible patterns in history, and if so, what are these patterns? These are the questions addressed in Dave LePoire’s Time Patterns in Big History: Cycles, Fractals, Waves, Transitions, and Singularities (2020). Among the issues addressed in this book…
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Ep. 25 The Team Coach Approach Part 3: Integrating Learnings
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This is episode 3 in a 3-part series on team coaching with team coach and CRR Global faculty member Martin Klaver. In episode 3, Katie and Martin discuss how to support clients in integrating the learnings. Across the conversation, they discuss: How to weave integration throughout a team coaching engagement Trusting and harnessing the wisdom of the…
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Ep. 24 The Team Coach Approach Part 2: Developing Relationships
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This is episode 2 in a 3-part series on team coaching with team coach and CRR Global faculty member Martin Klaver. To listen to part 1, click here. In episode 2, Katie and Martin discuss how to develop conscious and intentional relationships with clients. Across the conversation, they discuss: Sharing team coaching, not as a product but as a proces…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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What Algorithms Want: Imagination in the Age of Computing
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In this episode Chris Gondek interviews Ed Finn, author of the new book What Algorithms Want. Tune in for an interesting discussion on algorithm disconnect revolving around things humans regularly use, like Siri. And listen in for a definition of the phrase "culture machines". We depend on--we believe in--algorithms to help us get a ride, choose wh…
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Relationship Matters


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Ep. 23 The Team Coach Approach Part 1: Defining Success
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Across the next three episodes, Katie talks with team coach and CRR faculty member Martin Klaver about the team coach approach. In episode 1, Katie and Martin discuss what it means to build a successful team coaching business. Across the conversation they discuss: Defining what success might look like for your business and aligning your energy arou…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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Bernard D. Geoghegan, "Code: From Information Theory to French Theory" (Duke UP, 2023)
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Bernard Dionysius Geoghegan traces the shared intellectual and political history of computer scientists, cyberneticists, anthropologists, linguists, and theorists across the humanities as they developed a communication and computational-based theory that grasped culture and society in terms of codes. In Code: From Information Theory to French Theor…
In this episode, Katie talks with Floyd Carlson about bringing a Both/And mindset to our relationships. Across the conversation, they discuss: How can we help the systems navigate polarities when they show up Shifting from either/or thinking to a Both/And approach. The link between polarities and perpetual issues. And how a Both/And mindset can hel…
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Ep. 21 Conflict Part 2: Navigating the complexities of escalated conflict
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Across the next two episodes, Katie talks with ORSC coach and legally trained consultant Jennifer Pernfuss and CRR Global co-founder Marita Fridjhon about conflict. Conflict is a signal that something is trying to happen and when the signal of conflict isn't addressed, matters can escalate to other, and often more destructive forms of conflict. Con…
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Ep. 20 Conflict Part 1: Signals that something needs/wants to change
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Across the next two episodes, Katie talks with ORSC coach and legally trained consultant Jennifer Pernfuss and CRR Global co-founder Marita Fridjhon about conflict. Conflict is a signal that something is trying to happen and when the signal of conflict isn't addressed, matters can escalate to other, and often more destructive forms of conflict. Con…
In this episode, Katie Churchman talks with Sandra Cain (Director of Curriculum and Senior Faculty at CRR Global) and Maddie Weinreich (Master coach and Senior Faculty at CRR Global) about the different roles that exist within relationships The conversation covers a range of topics including: The geographic strata of relationships and how it can he…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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Peter Jones and Kristel van Ael, "Design Journeys Through Complex Systems" (Bis Publishers, 2022)
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As I slowly settle into 2023 — reflecting on the blur that was 2022 — I can’t help but think about the complex problems (aka big messes!) we face at every turn: from increasingly devastating manifestations of the climate emergency, to the ubiquitous homelessness crisis, to the perplexing challenge of accessing a family physician in prosperous regio…
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Ep.18 Reflective Practice: Learning through & from experience
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In this episode, Katie talks with Sunčica Getter and Marita Fridjhon about the power of reflective practice as a dynamic professional and personal growth resource. Across this conversation they discuss: How reflective practice can help us to discover and deepen our strengths, cross edges, see beyond blind spots, and find wisdom in the challenges we…
In this podcast, Katie talks with CRR faculty member Mish Middelmann about the Relationship Sytems Intelligence at Work Program (RSI@Work). At the centre of the RSI@work program is Building Relationship Systems Intelligence in teams and organisations. Across this conversation, Mish and Katie cover a range of topics including: Who the RSI@Work progr…
In this episode, Katie talks with senior faculty member Maddie Weinreich about how we can bring more 'aliveness' to our most intimate relationships. This conversation introduces proven relationship skills and invites us to take a bird's-eye view of our partnerships. Themes across the episode include: How we can take a more conscious approach to how…
In this episode, CRR Global co-founder Faith Fuller and faculty member Janet Frood are back on the show talking about nature. Building on the idea of nature as an ally which was introduced in season 3, Janet and Faith explore nature flirts as a guru principle. Across the conversation they discuss: The notion of a guru principle and how it can revea…
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Ep.14 The systems that inspired me with Faith Fuller
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In this episode, Katie Churchman is in conversation with Faith, co-founder of CRR Global, about some of the systems that have inspired the work that she does, with CRR Global and beyond. The conversation covers: The meaning of influence The impact of her childhood Working as a psychologist The impact of a brain injury Buddhism, meditation and her s…
In this episode, Katie talks with co-founder of CRR Global, Martia Fridjhon, about systems inspired coaching. Across this episode we explore: The value of bringing a systems inspired approach to coaching How to step in with a systems inspired coaching approach when working with individuals Using yourself- and your own system within- as a resource f…
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Ep.12 The Inside Team Part 3: Expanding your range as a coach
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Across 3 episodes in season 4, Katie talks with master coach Cynthia Loy Darst about the Inside Team: How To Turn Internal Conflict Into Clarity and Move Forward With Your Life. Based on ORSC concepts the Inside Team approach explores the collection of internal voices, parts, and beliefs that exist within us all and offers a framework for exploring…
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Ep.11 The Inside Team Part 2: Finding alignment with a triggered selves
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Across 3 episodes in season 4, Katie talks with master coach Cynthia Loy Darst about the Inside Team: How To Turn Internal Conflict Into Clarity and Move Forward With Your Life. Based on ORSC concepts the Inside Team approach explores the collection of internal voices, parts, and beliefs that exist within us all and offers a framework for exploring…
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Relationship Matters


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Ep. 10 The Inside Team Part 1: Getting to know the system of Me
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Across 3 episodes in season 4, Katie talks with master coach Cynthia Loy Darst about the Inside Team: How To Turn Internal Conflict Into Clarity and Move Forward With Your Life. Based on ORSC concepts the Inside Team approach explores the collection of internal voices, parts, and beliefs that exist within us all and offers a framework for exploring…
In this episode, Katie talks with CEO of CRR Global, Marita Fridjhon, about how we can use the ORSC principles with our families and also about some of the challenges this can inevitably bring up for even the most seasoned practitioner- hence the title: family is the final exam! Marita Fridjhon is a co-founder and CEO of CRR Global and mentor to an…
In this episode, Katie talks with co-coaches Kerry Woodcock and Sherry Matheson about their experiences and learnings after over 13 years of co-coaching together. Across the episode we explore: The value of co-coaching, what isn’t co-coaching How to shift your attention from yourself as an individual to the power of your relationship Finding alignm…
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Relationship Matters


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Ep.7 Everyday ORSC: Bringing a coach mindset to our every interaction
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In this episode, Katie talks with CEO of CRR Global, Marita Fridjhon, about how to take the ORSC tools and skills outside of coaching sessions and into our everyday interactions. Across the conversation we discuss: How to make a difference in the places where we don’t coach Bringing a different form of collective change through these small yet sign…
In this episode, Katie talks with one of the co-founders of CRR global, Faith Fuller, about Idiot Compassion. Idiot compassion is helping in unhelpful ways. Helping someone perpetuate their neurosis or unskillfulness at the expense of others. Or at the expense of a client's well-being. This conversation covers: The different situations that can bri…
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Relationship Matters


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Ep.5 Alchemy Part 3: Creating conscious & intentional impact
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Across 3 episodes in season 4, Katie talks with master coach Lori Shook about Alchemy: The Art and Science of co-facilitation. Based on ORSC concepts the alchemy approach was designed to help pairs create magical co-deliveries, whether they be co-coaching, co-facilitating, or co-parenting! Magical co-facilitation, inspired participants, deep learn…
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Ep.4 Alchemy Part 2: The Experiential Learning Approach
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Across 3 episodes in season 4, Katie talks with master coach Lori Shook about Alchemy: The Art and Science of co-facilitation. Based on ORSC concepts the alchemy approach was designed to help pairs create magical co-deliveries, whether they be co-coaching, co-facilitating, or co-parenting! Magical co-facilitation, inspired participants, deep learn…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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Technocracy Now! Part 2: Exploring Technocracy through Cybernetics
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On part #2 of Technocracy Now, we tell stories of cybernetic technocracies. First, we hear the story of Charles A. McClelland, a liberal political scientists who proposed a cybernetic computer system that claimed to predict conflicts before they happened. With this information, US policy makers could usher in a new age of peace and stability (and f…
Across 3 episodes in season 4, Katie talks with master coach Lori Shook about Alchemy: The Art and Science of co-facilitation. Based on ORSC concepts the alchemy approach was designed to help pairs create magical co-deliveries, whether they be co-coaching, co-facilitating, or co-parenting! Magical co-facilitation, inspired participants, deep learn…
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Relationship Matters


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Ep.2 The systems that inspired me with Marita Fridjhon
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In this episode, Katie Churchman is in conversation with Marita Fridjhon, co-owner and CEO of CRR Global, about some of the systems that have inspired the work that she does, with CRR Global and beyond. The conversation covers: Growing up in South Africa during the Apartheid era Working as a clinical social worker at the University of Cape Town Her…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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Xiao Liu, "Information Fantasies: Precarious Mediation in Postsocialist China" (U Minnesota Press, 2019)
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International and transnational historiography has given us vivid glimpses of the development and impact of cybernetics on a national scale in such countries as the Soviet Union, Chile and, of course, in the US and Great Britain where the field initially began to coalesce. Now, Xiao Liu’s Information Fantasies: Precarious Mediation in Postsocialist…
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Relationship Matters


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Ep.1 Walking our Talk: some curriculum updates
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To kick-start a brand-new season of the Relationship Matters Podcast, Katie Churchman talks with Sandra Cain (Director of Curriculum and Senior Faculty at CRR Global) about some updates to the Organizational and Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC) curriculum. We’re living our own work and as a consequence, our materials, tools and understanding of…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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Frank Uit de Weerd and Marita Fridjhon, "Systems Inspired Leadership" (CRR Global, 2021)
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Listeners who have tuned in to my most recent episodes here on Systems and Cybernetics will be familiar with what seems be a current running theme. So, as I grapple with what it takes to bring systems thinking to life, I couldn't help but be intrigued when I came across Systems Inspired Leadership: How to Tap Collective Wisdom to Navigate Change, E…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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David Ehrlichman, "Impact Networks: Creating Connection, Sparking Collaboration, and Catalyzing Systemic Change" (Berrett-Koehler, 2021)
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I recently caught up with the very busy David Erlichman, co-founder and coordinator of the Converge network (www.converge.net), about his fantastic book Impact Networks: Creating Connection, Sparking Collaboration, and Catalyzing Systemic Change (Berrett-Koehler, 2021). Solving complex problems like climate change or homelessness demands intense co…
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Relationship Matters


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Worldwork Bonus: Teach for China & team cohesion
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In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 5 bonus episodes, you will be hea…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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Carol Sanford, "Indirect Work: A Regenerative Change Theory for Businesses, Communities, Institutions and Humans" (Interoctave, 2022)
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I recently got a chance to talk to Carol Sanford about her newest book Indirect Work: A Regenerative Change Theory for Businesses, Communities, Institutions and Humans. Carol Sanford is a consistently recognized disruptor and contrarian working side by side with Fortune 500 and new economy executives in designing and leading systemic business chang…
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Relationship Matters


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Worldwork Bonus: Assisting Girl Scouts to continue their journey to become future leaders
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In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 5 bonus episodes, you will be hea…
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Relationship Matters


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Worldwork Bonus: What inclusion means & how diversity is wasted when inclusion is not present
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In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 5 bonus episodes, you will be hea…
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Relationship Matters


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Worldwork Bonus: Championing emotions in chinese corporations
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In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 5 bonus episodes, you will be hea…
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Relationship Matters


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Worldwork Bonus: Improving the social & economic position of immigrant women in the Netherlands
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In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 5 bonus episodes, you will be hea…
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New Books in Systems and Cybernetics


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Mark Andrejevic, "Automated Media" (Routledge, 2019)
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In this era of pervasive automation, Mark Andrejevic provides an original framework for tracing the logical trajectory of automated media and their social, political, and cultural consequences. Automated Media (Routledge, 2019) explores the cascading logic of automation, which develops from the information collection process through to data process…