A biweekly discussion of pressing architecture news and issues, hosted by Paul Petrunia, Donna Sink, and Ken Koense.
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Join us each Friday morning for a new show on powerfully transforming your health, wellness & life! Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thesecondnatureshow/support
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Tired of the misinformation and propaganda in current true crime reporting, podcasts and documetaries; Roberta Glass set out in 2018 to create a true crime podcast sourced directly from the court records and case files. Roberta's drive and curiosity to look more deeply into true crime cases has taken her to the courthouse where she covered to the NXIVM trial, Ghislaine Maxwell trial and Larry Ray trial as well as Jeffrey Epstein related hearings.
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The Wire-Tap Recording that Will Sink Donna Adelson
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These wire-tap recordings will be difficult for Donna Adelson’s defense to explain. Show Notes: Pretty Lies & Alibis "Charlie Adelson Seems to Be Panicking While Telling Donna to Quit Panicking" - https://youtu.be/ciqz2LznYAs?si=kFZFbIbvuQdc5tyq Pretty Lies & Alibis "2nd Call After the Bump..Charlie Has Questions" -https://youtu.be/Yv485P07eD4?si=p…
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Detective Keys In on Adelson Family Immediately After Speaking with Wendi Adelson!
1:59:18
1:59:18
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Looking at what clued in Detective Craig Isom to the Adelson family’s involvement in Dan Markel’s murder minutes after concluding his interview with Wendi Adelson. Show Notes: Law & Crime Trials “Charlie Adelson’s Sister Breaks Down During Police Interrogation..” - https://youtu.be/m7n8CkJfUMA?si=jqqhmuuI098eEaoC Law & Crime Trials “FSU Law Profess…
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Did Adelson Family Money Pay for Katie's Lawyers & Silence?
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59:59
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59:59
DonnaAdelson #DanMarkel Did the Adelson family money influence Katherine Magbanua’s decision to stay silent? And who paid for Katherine Magbanua’s attorney? Show Notes: Fanci Fiction "New Witness and Backstory on Witness" -https://www.youtube.com/live/x1e5IFr8Qv0?si=V-xtsdlVwhtD3-6I Fanci Fiction on X - https://x.com/FanciFiction/status/18242672038…
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1
The Snitch Points the Finger at Donna Adelson!
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danmarkel #donnaadelson #charlieadelson Today we look at the informant that pointed the finger at Donna Adelson as the woman behind the plot to murder Dan Markel. Show Notes: Deep Dive True Crime "Cellmate Chatter: Sigfredo Garcia's Drunken Confessions" - https://youtu.be/PNs5AdcctxM?si=70iRdnVYEMq0YtsT News4Jax "Court Date Set for Man Accused in M…
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Donna Adelson or Wendi Adelson: Who Was the Mastermind?
1:58:48
1:58:48
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Who came up with the plan? Show Notes: Sigfredo Garcia Probable Cause Affadivit-https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2850642- Sigfredo-Garcia-Probable-Cause Tallahassee Democrat "Not Finished Yet" - https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2016/05/26/man-arrrested-dan-markel-case/84955148/ Fanci Fiction on X - https://x.com/FanciFiction/status/182…
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Donna Adelson Wants Her Case Dismissed! Feat. Patty's Playhouse
1:45:51
1:45:51
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Patty from Patty's Playhouse YT channel joins to discuss Donna Adelson's latest motions and so much more! Thank you, Patrons! B Rabbit, Theresa Parrino, Sanny O’Brien, DSamlam, Janet Gardner, Suzanne Kniffin, Iriana Campbell, Jennifer Klearman, Patricia Linz, Nancy, Judy Brown, Pat Brooks, Linda Lazzarro, Susan Hicks, Jeff Meadors, Donna, Faith Pee…
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Karen Read makes frends with the media. Show Notes: Greg Hill Show “Courtney & Greg Had Dinner with Karen Read” - https://youtu.be/1loJ1cg9BDk?si=mXPDMCvKHx74GC7n Innocence Fraud Watch “Killer Karen Read Does A 180 On Her Lies & Smear On Innocent Collin Albert” - https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2024/08/14/killer…
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1
Bad Facts for Donna Adelson's Defense!
1:57:21
1:57:21
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It’s all in the timing…. Show Notes: Law & Crime Trials "Charlie Adelson Prosecutor Delivers Intense Closing Arguments in Hitman Conspiracy Murder Trial" - https://youtu.be/dsTIkDEV3PI?si=4fUR_Yi_uptlLlY1 Roberta Glass "Oh Donna" - https://youtu.be/m_yejJ7dDFg?si=Cmn_sMRYh_IQSFH3 Thank you, Patrons! B Rabbit, Theresa Parrino, Sanny O’Brien, DSamlam…
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wendiadelson #charlieadelson #danmarkel #donnaadelson Which Adelson family member will flip first,? The truth is the family will protect their lie at all costs. Show Notes: Pretty Lies & Alibis “Charlie, Harvey and Donna Talk Wendi” - https://youtu.be/mwI_mciVmJw?si=xqYKmsk7agZSvN-K Tallahassee Democrat “Dan Markel Murder- Wendi Adelson Grilled..” …
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Karen Read Returns to Court! Some Questions for Jen McCabe's Lawyer...
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55:22
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Discussing the Karen Read’s innocence fraud campaign spreads through Canton Mass like a virus. Is Jen McCabe’s lawyer working for his client or Karen Read? Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch "Killer Karen Read Retrial: Why Did Lawyer Kevin Reddington..." - https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2024/08/10/killer-karen-r…
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1
Secrets of the Adelson Defense Team!
1:18:54
1:18:54
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charlieadelson #donnaadelson #murderofdanmarkel #danmarkel How the Adelson defense sausage is made… Show Notes: Pretty Lies & Alibis "Charlie Adelson Gave Away His Food and Socks Thinking He Would Get Off" -https://youtu.be/athMX25J-PQ?si=Xj-JAqOERf3rRym5 Josh Dubin Cordozo School of Law - https://cardozo.yu.edu/directory/josh-dubin Perlmutter Cent…
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Sarah Boone's New Hearing & A Lawyer Pays Boone A Visit!
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A lawyer pays Sarah Boone a visit before yesterday’s hearing and she actually takes his advice. The lawyer goes on to make a plea for Boone’s representation? Is the ruling to deny Boone a lawyer fair or is Sarah Boone being victimized by our criminal justice system? Show Notes: Court TV "Sarah Boone Represents Herself in Suitcase Murder Trial" - ht…
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1
Did Kamala Harris Convict An Innocent Man?
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KamalaHarris #JamalTrulove #WrongfulConviction #InnocenceFraud Did Kamala Harris’ office wrongfully convict Jamal Trulove for the murder of Seu V Kuka in 2009? Trulove won a 13.1 settlement for “prosecutorial misconduct” paid by the taxpayers of San Francisco. Was Trulove innocent all along or is the press once again failing to tell the real story?…
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Black Swan Murder! Was Ashley Benefield's Testimony a Performance of a Lifetime?
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52:24
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Examining Ashley Benefield’s testimony in her trial for second degree murder of her husband Doug Benefield. This case has deeply divided the true crime community with some seeing Benefield as a wrongly convicted victim while others determined she was a heartless faker who got what she deserved when she was convicted of manslaughter. Show Notes: Cou…
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How Donna Adelson's Own Words Implicate Her Daughter Wendi!
1:03:13
1:03:13
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Looking at some damaging evidence against Wendi from Donna Adelson’s own mouth. Show Notes: Tallahassee Democrat " Dan Markel Murder: Charlie Adelson Trial Day 2" - https://www.youtube.com/live/yUbVdAmDQOc?si=4FbgrZuyz21HhEv6 Fanci Fiction "During Bump 4/19/16 Charlie & Donna Talk = Bump Classic TV is 5" - https://youtu.be/nJ-bY-qhZc4?si=b-twS4kfZB…
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Talking About "The Jinx" & "Capturing the Friedmans" on William Ramsey Investigates with Jasun Horsley
1:11:00
1:11:00
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Recently went on William Ramsey Investigates to discuss Andrew Jarecki's documentaries "Capturing the Friedmans" and "The Jinx". At times the discussion goes off into some conspiratorial directions! However, there is some good information about Jarecki, his father's ties to Epstein. It may explain why he decided to begin his career as a documentari…
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Delphi Case - The 61 Confessions the Jury Might Never Hear!
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Richard Allen is accused of murdering of murdering 14 year old Libby German and 13 year old Abigail Williams in Delphi, Indiana on February 13, 2017. Today was the last day in a three days of hearings where Mr. Allen’s defense made several motions including the request to block any mention of sixty one confessions Mr. Allen made while incarcerated …
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Karen Read Case! Paul O’Keefe Clashes With Aidan "Turtleboy" Kearney!
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38:56
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Paul O’Keefe exchanges words with “Free Karen Reed” blogger & accused witnesses intimidator Aidan “Turtleboy” Kearney. Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch "Killer Karen Read (UPDATED) Will Commonwealth Subpoena Murderers Parents William & Janet Read For Her 2nd Jury Trial?" - https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2024/0…
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Is Nick Rekieta the New Ruby Franke?
1:00:07
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Here’s what we know so far post-arrest. Show Notes: Elissa Clips "Nick Rickieta Vs. Activity Police" - https://youtu.be/ygCM6BJLjMQ?si=u-HioeWdSBXubwAz Elissa Clips "Not Railing Lines with Rekieta's 8yo" - https://youtu.be/sfkokp2ULp8?si=6EjVrABolr6_URhT JD Maltman "Nick Rekieta Gets Blind Drunk & Plays With Himself" - https://youtu.be/eH8PbzVsN5s?…
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Sarah Boone's New Hearing! The Defendant from Hell!
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Let’s look at today’s hearing for Florida Vs. Sarah Boone. #sarahboone #suitcasemurder Show Notes: Law & Crime Network "Police Grill Accused Murderer Sarah Boone the Morning After..." - https://youtu.be/wdDuQAO1RGs?si=08kBA2iqIxml5MDj Fox 35 Orlando "Sarah Boone Must Represent Herself" -https://youtu.be/7E42IdZpsFE?si=_VL2dg5SR_LSKcqB Fox 35 Orland…
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Georgia Cappleman's Boss Move in Donna Adelson's Upcoming Trial!
1:14:46
1:14:46
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Georgia Cappleman & Sarah Dugan have made a boss move in #DonnaAdelson case. Show Notes: Law & Crime Trials "State Hammers Charlie Adelson in Hitman Conspiracy Murder Case Cross-Examination" - https://youtu.be/JZA60ODyT7U?si=05ybEYbQNqQ6VO0Z Thank you, Patrons! Sanny O’Brien, DSamlam, Janet Gardner, Suzanne Kniffin, Iriana Campbell, Jennifer Klearm…
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Donna Adelson Blames Wendi! Making Sense of the New Document Drop!
1:46:12
1:46:12
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Talking about Donna Adelson’s new hearing and making sense of the Stare of Florida’s new document drop. Also, we review the phone call that got Donna Adelson’s arrested #donnaadelson #charlieadelson Show Notes: Pretty Lies & Alibis- “#CharlieAdelson and #DonnaAdelson The Call that Got Her Arrested” - https://youtu.be/QwsH8D2KGGk?si=VuXXUa3ta3g9CJ1-…
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Donna Adelson Cellphone Shocker! Scorches Wendi in New Text!
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58:31
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New discovery in Donna Adelson’s case and it’s a jaw dropper! #DonnaAdelson #CharllieAdelson #DanMarkel Show Notes: Deep Dive True Crime "A Look At New Donna Adelson Evidence" - https://www.youtube.com/live/11HCSJuT5rU?si=HMcKI9KkgBgbU_5B Deep Dive True Crime "Items of Evidence Detectives Tagged From Donna Adelson's Phone" - https://www.youtube.com…
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Puppet Master! Karen Read Pulls the Toxic Strings!
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Was John O'Keefe finally through with Karen Read's gaslighting and abuse before she hit him with her car and left him to die in the snow? Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch "Killer Karen Read Retrial: Why Were Text Messages Between Richie The Mansfield Plumber, Who Was Due To Return To 481 Gilbert Street On 29th January 2022, Hidden? https://theerro…
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Ten Years After Dan Markel's Murder. What's Next?
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When will Dan Markel and his family get justice? "You all know this I'm sure but remember: Everything wonderful is also and already fragile. Love mightily while you can ." Dan Markel Show Notes: Justice for Dan "Michael Weinstein Confirms Former Role as Zealous Advocate for Charlie Adelson" - https://www.justicefordan.com/post/weinstein-adelson Flo…
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Karen Read: The Questions No One is Asking!
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53:28
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Important questions not being asked in the Karen Read case. Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch "Killer Karen Read: Kevin Lenihan AKA Yellow Cottage Tales & His Flawed Logic & Double Binds"- https://rumble.com/v57azwt-killer-karen-read-retrial-kevin-lenihan-from-yellow-cottage-tales-and-his-d.html Murder of Jovita Navarro - https://law.justia.com/cas…
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Donna Adelson Trial! The Witness We Haven't Heard!
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46:51
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Will this be the trial that we finally hear from this very important witness. Show Notes: Pretty Lies & Alibi "Wendi Under The Bus Again! Charlie & Donna Adelson Question Wendi's Actions" -https://youtu.be/ZfTI-iK6z-E?si=lJwrqdlTFxbvpkCV Court TV "Damning Phone Call Between Donna Adelson & Undercover Cop" - https://youtu.be/dys8DIUfFL0?si=vL8uOuFrV…
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Donna Adelson Case Shocker! Will Charlie Adelson's Testimony Be Donna's Downfall!
1:32:50
1:32:50
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1:32:50
The State of Florida is asking convicted murderer Charlie Adelson to testify at his Mom Donna Adelson’s trial? Will this help or hurt the accused murderer Grandma’s chances at beating the rap? Show Notes: AALegal Focus "Latest News in Donna Adelson's Criminal Case" - https://youtu.be/Yxpd7OSKrwk?si=gtoh7hkkULayOUah Law & Crime Network "Top 8 Critic…
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A timeline of Alec Baldwin’s aggressive & criminal behavior before he accidentally shot and killed cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins. Show Notes- Leo's Substack "Alec Baldwin's Timeline of Terror" - https://leohelmar.substack.com/p/the-alec-baldwin-terror-timeline Reddit Hilaria Baldwin "Alec Baldwin & His Made Up Splenda Story Update Still Pathetic…
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Alec Baldwin's Manslaughter Trial Begins!
1:27:12
1:27:12
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Alec Baldwin is on trial for manslaughter for the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of the film Rust on October 21, 2021. Shownotes: Law & Crime “Alec Baldwin Trial Full Opening Statements”- https://youtu.be/vXIJDX3P8yk?si=Bgrda97BkGV1U0vo Thank you, Patrons! Suzanne Kniffin, Iriana Campbell, Jennifer Klearman, Patricia L…
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Karen Read's Lawyers' Ridiculous New Filing!
1:24:06
1:24:06
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Karen Read’s lawyers’ new motion is ridiculous! Let’s discuss! Show Notes: ABC News "Karen Read Attorney File For Motion to Dismiss in Murder Trial" - https://youtu.be/CTvi6-33Lfg?si=rAbZvvW8su2oxJ6M CBS Boston "Paul O'Keefe Full Interview" - https://youtu.be/yR1e5daMZqw?si=Hw4GmFFjEajCglFO Karen Read Defense Motion to Dismiss - https://online.flip…
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Karen Read Mistrial Aftermath! Proctor Transferred While Aidan Kearney Gets Celebrated!
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56:35
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56:35
It’s a criminal’s world. Donate to Lindsey -https://www.givesendgo.com/GCSJ9?utm_source=sharelink&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=GCSJ9 Thank you, Patrons! Suzanne Kniffin, Iriana Campbell, Jennifer Klearman, Patricia Linz, Nancy, Judy Brown, Pat Brooks, Linda Lazzarro, Susan Hicks, Jeff Meadors, Donna, Faith Peeples, Jennifer Powell, Cindy G Yur…
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The Jinx Prosecutor Tells All! The Dog Walking Tapes Part 1
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49:09
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DA John Lewin has prosecuted, tried and won more cold cases than any prosecutor in his county. Mr. Lewin's specialty is no body cases. Mr. Lewin is most famous for prosecuting and convicting #thejinx's Robert Durst in 2021. Durst's trial for the murder of Susan Berman displayed Mr. Lewin's unique style of examining witnesses. In the first episode o…
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Is Karen Read's trial going to end in a hung jury? Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch "Will Cop Killer Karen Read & Her Innocence Fraud Lawyers Succeed in Gaming the Criminal Justice System?" - https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2024/06/27/will-cop-killer-karen-read-her-innocence-fraud-lawyers-succeed-in-gaming-the-…
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Karen Read Trial: The Text Messages You Didn't See!
1:10:53
1:10:53
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Going through the entire collection of text messages sent between accused murderer Karen Read and police officer John O’Keefe on 1/28/2022 - 1/29/2022. Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch's "Dynamic, Chronological, Interactive Timeline of Cop Killer Karen Read and Her Murder of John O'Keefe" - https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovemen…
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Karen Read's Garbage Defense Witnesses!
2:13:24
2:13:24
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Karen Read’s defense witnesses were not something to wait for! Karen Read is on trial for the murder of police officer John O'Keefe. Show Notes: Help Lindsey! https://www.givesendgo.com/GCSJ9?utm_source=twitter NBC 10 "Prosecution Rests in Karen Read Trial" - https://youtu.be/uuUX2wdlaNM?si=U52A0nV3qDAsIfEm Roberta Glass "Karen Read Trial Day 29" -…
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Karen Read's Gaslighting Text Messages Exposed!
1:10:47
1:10:47
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Karen Read’s toxic behavior is exposed in a series of shocking text messages in the hours leading up her murder of police officer John O’Keefe. Show Notes: Psychology Today "Obstacles to a Relationship with a Psychopath" - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neurosagacity/201506/6-obstacles-relationship-psychopath Psychology Today "How Gaslight…
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Telling the cruel truth of Karen Read’s murder of John O’Keefe- free of fantasy. Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch's Karen Read Timeline - https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2024/05/12/timeline-of-killer-karen-read-her-murder/ WCVB "Appearing in Court Right Now..." - https://www.youtube.com/live/QnHEtJJsESA?si=VBzg…
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Karen Read Trial! Key Defense Evidence Goes Up in Smoke!
1:07:29
1:07:29
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RIP “Hos long to die in the cold” 2:27 am phone search. Show Notes: CBS Boston "Juror Dismissed in Karen Read Trial" - https://youtu.be/1RVikVy5GK8?si=gjrW33aaiwlfoDZP Innocence Fraud Watch "Karen Read Trial - Roberta Glass Was Right On For The Right On" - https://youtu.be/ZNEL-E1rmso?si=xe5c9oBsFGeeZ5OC Thank you, Patrons! Linda Lazzarro, Susan Hi…
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How do you sell a cop killer to the masses? Show Notes: The Con of Propaganda - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201702/the-con-propaganda Every Propaganda Technique Explained in 11 Minutes - https://youtu.be/sybo484veJY?si=fcIP5MGqRkEtUX0G Innocence Fraud Watch "Karen Read & Her Exploitive, Manipulative & Gaslighting Enablin…
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Karen Read's Defense Team's Sleazy Magic Tricks!
1:35:59
1:35:59
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Alan Jackson attempted more of his magical distraction defense. Thank you, Patrons! Linda Lazzarro, Susan Hicks, Jeff Meadors, Donna, Faith Peeples, Jennifer Powell, Cindy G Yurts, Kay Bee, Dana Natale, Debra Couture, Cindy Poschesci, Riverdale Pilates, Luanne Miller, Rachbaum, Kevin Crecy, Renee Chavez, Angela Smith, Melba Pourteau, Julia K Thomas…
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Karen Read's Defense Text Message Surprise Revealed!
1:38:18
1:38:18
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Trooper Proctor takes the stand. Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch "Karen Read - Adam Lally Was and Still Is Spot On" - https://youtu.be/7f0-VMWYpcU?si=VknDQYoFEL3n76Pu Thank you, Patrons! Linda Lazzarro, Susan Hicks, Jeff Meadors, Donna, Faith Peeples, Jennifer Powell, Cindy G Yurts, Kay Bee, Dana Natale, Debra Couture, Cindy Poschesci, Riverdale …
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Amanda Knox was retried and convicted for criminally slandering her boss Patrick Lumumba when she implicated Lumumba in the murder of Meredith Kercher in 2007. In October of 2011, Italy’s highest court determined that Amanda Knox was at the scene of Meredith Kercher’s murder. The court also determined that Kercher was murdered by more than one pers…
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Karen Read's Bad Acting Takes Center Stage at the Crime Scene!
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Did Karen Read gather up friends Kerry Roberts and Jennifer McCabe to have an audience for her theatrics at the crime scene? Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch "Karen Read Dynamic Timeline" -https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2024/05/12/timeline-of-killer-karen-read-her-murder/ Innocence Fraud Watch " Karen Read & H…
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After days of non-stop damning evidence and stellar testimony presented by the commonwealth, Karen Read’s defense looks doomed. Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch “Killer Karen cRead Deleted #Ring Camera Events Data” - https://youtu.be/XyPXQmajbe4?si=m-oflSFnLwsRl_p6 Innocence Fraud Watch "Killer Karen Read: Yet More Trial Blunders By Lawyer Alan “N…
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Karen Read: Putting the Pieces Together
1:28:57
1:28:57
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1:28:57
Putting the forensic evidence in perspective in the Karen Read case. Show Notes: Innocence Fraud Watch "Killer Karen Read: SERT Police Lt. Kevin O'Hard Arrived Outside 34 Fairview Road" - https://youtu.be/1xNX-iVW9TQ?si=Kfk97Jg-iQM_1KZq Innocence Fraud Watch "Killer Karen Read's Deluded Brother Nathan Read Do Not Know the Facts of the Case" - https…
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Yellow Cottage Fails! Kevin Simps for Convicted Killer!
1:11:55
1:11:55
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1:11:55
Kevin Lenihan hosts & hypes Jovita Navarro’s killer Bill Noguera. Show Notes: Yellow Cottage Tales on X (Twitter) - https://x.com/ourx_vault/status/1731673508407550433 Yellow Cottage Tales "Digging for Clues..." - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjNsShlTM9s Thank you, Patrons! Cindy G Yurts, Kay Bee, Dana Natale, Debra Couture, Cindy Poschesci, Riv…
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Karen Read camp fractures and fights while niece and nephew’s testimony gets reported. Show Notes: Court TV "John O'Keefe's Children Detail Relationship Day 18 Recap" - https://youtu.be/abuV2M8Yb-s?si=Q-LGXicLsQth0EhY WCVB Channel 5 Boston "Karen Read Trial O'Keefe Children" - https://youtu.be/V-hXF3F9KLA?si=z2ZGXfImq8sfKiS5 Innocence Fraud Watch B…
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Where's the Evidence in the Karen Read Trial?
1:14:58
1:14:58
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1:14:58
Is “no evidence” being presented in the Karen Read trial? Thank you, Patrons! Cindy G Yurts, Kay Bee, Dana Natale, Debra Couture, Cindy Poschesci, Riverdale Pilates, Luanne Miller, Rachbaum, Kevin Crecy, Renee Chavez, Angela Smith, Melba Pourteau, Julia K Thomas, JS, Stephanie Roach, Stark Stuff, Robyn Ray, K, Kayce Taylor, Yvette Jockin, Karen Cot…
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How "The Jinx 2" Answers True Crime's Toughest Question.
2:04:25
2:04:25
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2:04:25
The season finale of the Jinx Part 2 premieres on Max tonight. In this episode I discuss how “The Jinx 2” answers true crime’s toughest question. Thank you, Patrons! Cindy G Yurts, Kay Bee, Dana Natale, Debra Couture, Cindy Poschesci, Riverdale Pilates, Luanne Miller, Rachbaum, Kevin Crecy, Renee Chavez, Angela Smith, Melba Pourteau, Julia K Thomas…
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