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Welcome to the Song Saloon! Hi, I'm Jordan Smith Reynolds. I'm an LA based singer-songwriter interviewing artists I admire. If you love discovering new music, listening to intimate live performances, and conversations exploring the creative process…you’ve come to the right place! Each episode of the Song Saloon features an artist through the lens of a song. It starts with a live performance, followed by an interview with the songwriter about the featured song, and ends with the final recorde ...
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The Fourth Curtain

Alexander Seropian & Aaron Marroquin

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A GUIDED TOUR OF VIDEOGAME MAKERY! Hosts Alex Seropian (founder Bungie, Wideload, Industrial Toys) and Aaron Marroquin (Art Director, Game Designer, part time magician) take you on a tour of the minds that create our favorite video games. We may also wander around in our own heads too. We aim to inspire, educate and entertain you about the games you love, the people that make them and hey, if you're not a gamer we know you know one. This will help you connect with them too.
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This week on The Fourth Curtain, we’re joined by Mihai Pohontu, CEO and Chairman of Amber Studio, a distinguished figure in the gaming industry. Mihai, who was recently named Romanian Entrepreneur of the Year, shares his fascinating journey from the upheaval of post-revolution Romania to becoming a leader in global game development. A self-describe…
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Our guest Warren Spector is the creative producer behind vastly influential games like Ultima Underworld, System Shock, Deus Ex and many others. Now working on (working title) Argos, he joins us to talk about the birth of the immersive sim, having amazing mentors and ways to start a game, this week! The conversation dives deep into Warren's career,…
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Send us a text In this episode of the Song Saloon, Sadie Gustafson-Zook, a Boston-nurtured, Indiana-based jazzy folk musician, talks about her journey and inspirations behind her song 'Autumn's Fragrance.' We talk about her collaboration with other musicians, her views on the music communities in different cities, and her new EP, 'What I Pushed Bel…
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In this episode of The Fourth Curtain, Alex and Aaron sit down with Ed Fries, a pivotal figure in the gaming industry and former VP at Microsoft, where he helped launch the Xbox. Ed shares stories from his early days at Microsoft, including how he made the leap from working on Office products to heading up the game division. He dives into the creat…
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Join Alex Seropian (founder of Bungie) and Aaron Marroquin as they dive into the incredible minds behind the video game industry in The Fourth Curtain. In this episode, they chat with Frank Gibeau, the CEO of Zynga, who takes listeners on a journey through one of the most legendary corporate turnarounds in gaming history. From his early days at EA …
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Our guest this week is the legend Jordan Weisman. Creator of BattleTech, Crimson Skies and the world's first alternate reality game, he's now working on Adventure Forge, a platform to help non-engineers make videogames. We talk buying D&D from Gary Gygax, at Gary's house!, the secret to entrepreneurship and creating the "Bungie bubble" this week! […
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Our guest this week is the co-creative director of Arkane Studios, Harvey Smith. Starting out in QA for System Shock and other games, he went on to be lead designer for Deus Ex and ultimately made Dishonored at Arkane. We talk meeting your heroes, recombining systems and the secret to making a magical game this week! [00:00:00] - Harvey Smith discu…
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Send us a text Jake's lying to Anna. He's an interesting dude! Jake is a songwriter, educator, dueling pianist, podcaster, improv comedian, academic, and musical theater composer. I think you'll really enjoy this episode about Jake and his life leading up to his album "Idling High." This song is out now, make sure to follow Jake for updates on the …
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In this exciting episode of The Fourth Curtain, hosts Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin dive deep into the world of gaming journalism with none other than Dean Takahashi, the lead writer of GamesBeat at VentureBeat. With over three decades of experience covering tech and gaming, Dean shares his unique insights on the evolving landscape of the …
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This week's guest is a well-known "closer" who has steered the ship for some of the biggest games ever. Beginning with Train Simulator, he went on to serve as Producer for Counter-Strike Xbox, Gears of War, Infinity Blade, BioShock Infinite. Now helming Diablo at Blizzard, he talks triage, teamwork and not shaking the jello - this week! Thank you f…
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Our guest this week is Michal Nowakowski the co-CEO of CD Projekt Red, the renowned studio behind iconic games like The Witcher and Cyberpunk 2077. With nearly two decades at CD Projekt, Michal shares his journey from the early days of video game distribution in Poland to leading one of the world's most celebrated game development companies. Beginn…
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Our conversation with the gamedev legend Brian Reynolds continues as we dive into the true meaning of 4X, the Train Reynolds business model, NPC insults and the research secrets of this podcast - this week! Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aar…
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Welcome to Episode 17 of the Game is the Game. I've been fortunate in life to meet an array of inspirational individuals across varied professions. The Game is the Game is an opportunity for them to tell their stories and hopefully inspire others to find their calling. On this episode I sit down with Feng Shui practitioner, Michelle Lillicrap. Welc…
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Our guest Brian Reynolds has a story so nice we had to hear it twice! In Part 1 we hear about coding at Radioshack, mentorship with Sid Meier and making Civilization 2 basically by himself. A great conversation with a legend to resume Season 2 of The Fourth Curtain! Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people …
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Send us a text Zack Fischmann, an LA based artist, makes the bold claim that music marketing "doesn't have to suck." He does make some pretty convincing arguments, and has plenty of success to show for it, jumping from 200 followers on Instagram to 33k+ in just a few months! Magic Nothing is an evolving project with a focus on helping independent m…
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Co-founder and CEO of Overwolf, Uri Marchand has been building _THE_ UGC platform for over fourteen years and Overwolf has paid more than $200 million to mod-makers going deep on games from Minecraft to Stardew Valley! A hardcore Real Time Strategy player, Uri's company now supports all types of games including Ark and The Sims. We talk the funnel …
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Our guest Mark DeLoura has had a stunningly wide-ranging career: game developer and executive for Nintendo, Sony and THQ, Editor in Chief of Game Developer magazine, Senior Advisor for Digital Media in the White House, author of Programming Gems book series, built hardware and software for NASA and served on the Board at Games for Change. This week…
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Send us a text Lotti is the musical moniker of Filipina singer-songwriter Vealy. Lotti's aim is to create modern yet timeless music, drawing from pop, R&B, and soul influences. Her artistic mission is to heal and transform, narrating a personal journey of self-discovery and growth. Follow Lotti Listen to "Butterflies in My Garden" Support the show …
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For a second time we are graced with the presence of videogame legend Shannon Loftis! Veteran of running Flight Simulator and Age of Empires at Microsoft, she was instrumental in the acquisition of Rare for Xbox game Studios. Now an advisor to Duke University's videogame program she joins us to talk franchises, Animal Well and the great Profanisaur…
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Our guests this week are creators of the visually-striking games Cocoon, Limbo and Inside. Jakob Scmid is co-founder of Geometric Interactive and Erwin Kho is the artist guiding a couple of those projects. We talk about readable environments, demo scenes and more this week! Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing…
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Send us a text Brad Miles is a singer/songwriter based in Texas. He’s written, played, and performed music for nearly three decades. He writes honest, heartfelt, accesible, and emotionally vulnerable Americana/Country. I do want to add a trigger warning for this episode, we do get into some heavy topics both in the song and the interview, as the so…
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This past March, 30,000 people went to San Francisco for the annual Game Developers Conference. Going since 1988, GDC, brings together people from all corners of the game development community. The Fourth Curtain followed four different journeys intersecting this conference. The First Timer: Aaron has never gone to GDC and it terrified him. The Sea…
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In this inaugural Lunch Club episode of The Fourth Curtain we discuss starting a Game Studio, something Alex has done a few times. We fail to actually eat lunch, but we do talk about the following topics: 1) Why? Why do you want to start one? What are good reason to do so and what’s a game studio really? 2) Strategies. If you are starting a studio,…
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This week’s guest Tim Morten has been putting the “real” in real time strategy for years. Formerly lead on Starcraft II, he’s now CEO of Frost Giant Studios, where they’re making Stormgate, a game intended to broaden the RTS audience. We talk compromises, learning how to make games and Korea’s love of Starcraft this week! Thank you for listening to…
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Send us a text Today's episode I meet with Jeffrey Derus, our first featured choral composer! I think you'll find there is a lot in common with songwriting and composing choral works. This featured song is performed by Choral Arts Initiative, a small ensemble choir that I sing in that exclusively performs works by living composers. We recently rele…
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Our guest this week was a founder of Glu and Playfish and an early investor in Supercell. Now he’s CEO of Super Evil Megacorp working on TMNT for Switch. We talk the early days of mobile, the great Vainglory and roguelites in a very educational episode this week! Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who…
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Beginning with a 3DO dev kit he was developing on alone (!), Ted Price went on to make Spyro the Dragon, Ratchet and Clank and Spiderman. His company Insomniac has been making games for a boggling 30 years! We talk odd jobs, Hail Marys and hands for mechanics this week. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing peo…
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Send us a text Meet Cogito! I met Cogito when she played as the featured artist for Lazy River Presents in LA. This song struck me as something special, and I think you'll agree! This episode we talk about the importance of recording the world around us as a songwriter, and how to connect our conscious and subconscious mind to make deep rooted art.…
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Our guests Paul and Katy Bettner are the Co-CEOs of Playful Games. Paul got his start making Age of Empires and Halo Wars. Together Paul and Katy made the leap into mobile founding NewToy, where Words with Friends became one of the most-played games of all time. They’re now working on Wildcard, a game aiming to fulfill the promise of web3. We talk …
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Our guest Peter Moore keeps ending up on top, whether it’s Reebok, Sega, EA Sports or Liverpool FC. His remarkable journey begins with semi-pro football, veers into videogames to become a father of the Dreamcast, head of EA Sports and has come full circle as owner of Santa Barbara Sky FC. Stories of recruiter calls, a dead Seaman and the Four C’s t…
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Send us a text Today's episode features Kat Sophia! Kat Sophia is an Orange County / LA based artist. We talk about her journey in overcoming her "people pleaser" mentality and cultural blocks to pursuing a career as an artist. 00:00 Introduction to the Song Saloon 00:34 Kat Sophia's Musical Journey 01:49 The Story Behind 'Fade Away' 10:10 Songwrit…
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You may know not the name of our guest Mitch Lasky, but you absolutely know his work. He created Activision’s third-party business and basically kicked off mobile gaming. As a VC he played a key role in the creation of Riot, Discord, Twitter and a dozen other hit businesses. Longtime partner at Benchmark Capital he’s now an owner of the LAFC soccer…
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A circus veteran who literally wrote the book on game design, Jesse Schell had a major impact on one of the biggest IPs in contemporary culture. Founder of Schell Games (member of the very exclusive “no layoffs” club) and now working on Among Us and other VR games, he has long taught entertainment technology at Carnegie Mellon. We talk Imagineering…
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Send us a text This episode of the Song Saloon features Mike McClellan, a Burbank-based songwriter, producer, and multi-instrumentalist. McClellan shares insights into his approach to songwriting as a music producer, and why he writes while working so heavily in production. He discusses the impact of working on his song 'The Afterlife,' a piece ins…
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Co-Founder of 2K Games, Susan Cummings has closed some of the biggest deals in videogames – Bioshock, Borderlands, she got XCOM for free! Now the CEO of Tiny Rebel Games she’s making a Petaverse which is cooler than the metaverse. Rockstar vibes, checkbook fun and our second brush with Patrick Stewart, this week! Thank you for listening to our podc…
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Computer graphics pioneer Lorne Lanning founded Oddworld Inhabitants and made six Oddworld games for multiple platforms including helping to launch the original Xbox. His journey has taken him from playing one of the first ColecoVisions to making animations for the DoD’s “Star Wars” program, to videogames. We talk voice acting, how to get a free Cr…
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Send us a text This episode is with incredible Kent, England raised Los Angeles based artist named Georgia Parker on her song "Twin Flame." "Twin Flame" is a single off her upcoming album this year! Georgia's bio: Los Angeles based songwriter and storyteller from Kent, England, Georgia Parker places an emphasis on powerful vocal performances and po…
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Filmmaker and graphic novel artist Jordan Mechner got his start with the smash hit videogames, Karateka and Prince of Persia. His technique of using rotoscoping brought unique fluidity and realism to his titles. We talk The Last Express, his graphic novel Replay and echoes of the past this week! You can visit Jordan's website at http://www.jordanme…
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Mike Wilson’s commitment to game artists getting their due is impossible to overstate. From his beginnings at DWANGO and iD, to Gathering of Developers, to Devolver, he has pursued a lifelong mission of getting #gamedevs their rightful piece of the pie. A fascinating trip through the last 30 years of game business this week on The Fourth Curtain! T…
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Welcome to Episode 16 of the Game is the Game. I've been fortunate in life to meet an array of inspirational individuals across varied professions. The Game is the Game is an opportunity for them to tell their stories and hopefully inspire others to find their calling. On this episode I sit down with renowned international spoken word poet, Storm C…
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Send us a text In this episode of the Song Saloon, we explore the songwriting process and inspirations with indie pop singer-songwriter Casey Conroy, originally from Orlando, Florida. Casey discusses her journey in the music industry, her approach to songwriting, and the story behind her song 'Glad You Hate Me.' We talk about Casey's collaborative …
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Like many of our guests, Dennis "Thresh" Fong has many “firsts” to his name. Not just first pro gamer, but first influencer, builder of many first gamer communities. Now his company Good Games Well Played is successfully combating toxicity in games. A great conversation with Fatal1ty mentor and Elon Musk competitor this week! Thank you for listenin…
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With a list of awards and firsts as long as your arm, this week’s guest made the “god game” into an artform, and then went on to multiple other genres – Syndicate, Dungeon Keeper, Black and White, Fable. Hear how he works like a Victorian, can’t afford a pavement artist and avoids inspiration from other games this week! Peter's Blog: https://develo…
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Send us a text Inside Story: The Making of 'Rest of My Life' by Jacob Khalil New York based artist Jacob Khalil discusses his song, 'Rest of My Life', explaining that it was created with the intent of engaging audiences in a sing-along during live performances, much like The Beatles' 'Hey Jude'. He also shares insights into the song's development a…
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This week our guest has several high profile innovations to his name – shareware in games, bullet time before The Matrix. He helped launch id Software and then Duke Nukem, Max Payne and so much more. He's back with a new iteration of Apogee delivering pure fun in a retro aesthetic. Come hear how Scott discovered the Build engine and hired, then fir…
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This week we meet up with Q-Games founder, Star Fox maker and all around technical wizard Dylan Cuthbert! Dylan is one of the few game developers to have made it big on three different continents! His story of how he got his first job at 17 in the UK will blow your mind. We talk hacking, legendary Japanese devs and much more this week! Thank you fo…
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Send us a text Meet Fresh Hot Waffles, the witchiest folk duo in the west! Fresh Hot Waffles consists of LA based artists Maddi Fraser and Ryan Spitzel. In this episode, the duo dives into their songwriting process and talk about how to stay inspired as a songwriter, and where they find inspiration. The discussion ranges from the challenges of writ…
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This week our guests are lifelong gamers Slim and Trevor. Together they put Valorant on the map and have now formed a new studio, RaidBase, to build a PvP sandbox game where players can build reputations. With experience in pro gaming and the psychology of games, we talk MMOs, hierarchies of needs and complex testing techniques, this week on The Fo…
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The massively prolific John Romero made 86 games before the hit Castle Wolfenstein and follow-ups DOOM and Quake. Now working on a new shooter in Unreal, he speaks to us about work ethics, culture shocks and starting over, this week on The Fourth Curtain! Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring t…
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Send us a text Meet Wendy Parr! I first met Wendy at NAMM where she gave a fantastic workshop on artistic branding. Talk about branding can sometimes feel fake or like you’re going against your better judgement to sell something, but what I love about her approach is how natural it becomes. It's about getting to the heart of what YOU love and care …
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