Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
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We are an offshoot of the Above the Law legal blog. But we are focused on the challenges women, people of color, LGBTQIA, and other diverse populations face in the legal industry. Let's be real -- it can suck out there. So we want to create a space where our community can come together share stories, find support and devise strategies. Our name comes from none other than the Notorious Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the jabot (decorative collar) she wears when delivering dissents from the bench. It' ...
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Overpaid Partners, Nikki Haley Lashes Out, And Judge Might Want To Chill
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Should we pay associates more and partners less? That's what this client thinks. Nikki Haley is threatening legal action against her supporters. Top notch politicking! Panel thinks that, maybe, a NY judge who threatened to shoot teenagers shouldn't stay on the job.By Legal Talk Network
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J.D. Vance brought Yale Law back into the spotlight. ----- As soon as J.D. Vance found himself on the GOP ticket, everyone who remembered him from his Yale Law days shared their thoughts and brought out their receipts. “JD’s rise is a triumph for angry jerks everywhere,” isn't a ringing endorsement. The campaign also tried to pull a fast one with s…
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They're not sending their best. ----- The Department of Justice has appointed special counsel to investigate politically charged cases for over a century. But Judge Aileen Cannon decided she has found a nugget of wisdom that every judge since the late 1800s overlooked and jettisoned Trump's classified documents case claiming that Jack Smith's was u…
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Exposing The Originalism Lie with Madiba Dennie - Episode 174
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Kathryn chats with Madiba Dennie, deputy editor at Balls and Strikes, about her new book, “The Originalism Trap”. Discover how originalist ideology affects our legal system, and why it’s crucial to challenge it. A must-listen for anyone curious about the evolving role of law and justice! Highlights Potential of the law to help or hurt people. Medib…
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Where are those summer bonuses? Don't give up hope yet. ----- Law firms are rolling in dough as partners are charging more and billing more. But comparing Biglaw to the NBA? Come on, New York Times. Despite all the money, it's not trickling down to associates in the form of mass summer bonuses yet, though there may still be some green on the horizo…
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Helping Businesses Help Themselves with Peter Bronstein - Episode 173
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Kathryn chats with Peter Bronstein, a radio show host and founder of Legal Steps. Peter shares why he became a lawyer, driven by a desire for fairness, and narrates his journey from in-house counsel to successful independent practice. Discover compelling stories of his career highs, advice for aspiring lawyers, and insights on challenges faced by s…
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Supreme Court Goes Out In Blaze Of Mendacity
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Textualism and Originalism evaporate in face of partisan objectives. ----- The Supreme Court closed out its season sidestepping text, precedent, and history -- the trifecta! -- to invent a new form of immunity to bail out Donald Trump. Weird, because so many of them were asked about this precise issue under oath and offered very different analysis.…
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Biglaw Partner Gets Real About Mentorship with Jane Arnold - Episode 172
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Dive into the latest episode of The Jabob Podcast and special guest Jane Arnold, partner at Polsinelli. Discover Jane’s unconventional path to law and her insights on mentoring, flexible work hours, and the future of diversity in Big Law. Listen for inspiring advice and a peek into the evolving legal landscape. Highlights Jane Arnold’s career path …
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The Journey From Incarceration To Law Student And Beyond with Jonas Caballero - Episode 171
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Dive into an inspiring episode as Kathryn Rubino hosts Albany law student Jonas Caballero. Discover Jonas’s incredible journey from protesting the Iraq War to overcoming incarceration and addiction, now excelling in law school and fighting for civil rights. A must-listen for a story of resilience and advocacy. Highlights Reporting on human rights i…
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Law Firm Summer Bonuses Have Started... Will They Continue?
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Also, the Supreme Court's really sticking it to the Fifth Circuit. ----- We've got a few firms dipping into the summer bonus pool. But so far the pack hasn't followed them into the water. The Supreme Court continues to shoot down the Fifth Circuit, recognizing that politicians can't use false arrests to squelch free speech and using the Circuit to …
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New Law School Rankings And Old Supreme Court Drama
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We talk about finding the right law school for you, and wonder how deep the SCOTUS drama goes. ----- The Above the Law Top 50 Law Schools ranking is here and this year it's putting power in the hands of the users. Meanwhile at the Supreme Court, ACB tells her colleagues that not every legal problem is a job for bad history. Sam and Martha-Ann Alito…
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Clarence Thomas Turned Supreme Court Service Into An ATM Machine
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Except ATM machines have limits. ----- When ProPublica first reported that Clarence Thomas had taken half a million in gifts, it turns out they had only scratched the surface. New financial disclosures and some number-crunching from Fix the Court show that Thomas has taken over $5 million in gifts and likely gifts. Meanwhile, Ketanji Brown Jackson …
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Trump's Lawyers Somehow Doing A Worse Job On TV Than In Court
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The Trump conviction excuse tour is not going well for his attorneys. ----- Donald Trump is now a convicted felon and everyone wants to know why his attorneys phoned in the defense. They... don't have good answers. At all. Continuing the Trump beat, Judge Aileen Cannon continued to display a delicate mix of cynical obstinance and outright incompete…
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Sam Alito's In Distress Of His Own Making
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An appeal to common sense is denied. ----- You might have thought flying a flag upside after January 6 would be the only "Sam Alito w/10 flag" story of the week, but you'd be wrong. The justice followed it up with another flag tied to the riots and got appropriately roasted over it all by Elena Kagan. Biglaw always paid well, but with partners cros…
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You're A Grand Old Flag, You're An Upside-Down Flag
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Now, this is a story all about how Sam Alito's wife got flipped-turned upside down. ----- Sam Alito flew his flag upside down in the aftermath of the insurrection. He doesn't deny that, but he blames his wife for it. Dames, amirite? Aside from the obvious ethical issues implicated by having a Supreme Court justice visibly light in the "defending th…
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Trump Defense Team Playing Tiddlywinks At A Chess Match
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Trump's attorneys seems as asleep at the switch as their client. ----- Having called Stormy Daniels a liar repeatedly in its opening, the Trump defense team was then shocked and appalled that the prosecution elicited testimony to rehabilitate her credibility. The hits didn't stop there as they attempted to get out of the mess they'd landed in by se…
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Donald Trump, Drake, And James Ho... punchlines write themselves. ----- Donald Trump's trial shenanigans continue. Is he going to violate the gag order again? It seems inevitable but... our prediction might shock you! But even if his unfiltered "Truthing" is behind him, there are so many other ways to show contempt of court. And a busy week in Morn…
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The First Law Of Whoever Smelt It, Dealt It
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The New York courtroom where Donald Trump is on trial is apparently unpleasant. Is that the former president's doing? The world may never know. Also, the fact that the racists are coming for Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson isn't surprising -- but who gave them the green light? And, a judge learns a valuable lesson about hot mics and why you should al…
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Alienating The Judge And Jury Seems Like A Bold Strategy For Trump
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Let's see if it pays off as well as a billionaire covering up an affair. ----- Donald Trump's hush money trial kicks off after a week of Trump alienating everyone involved in the process by refusing to respect basic decorum and attempting to skirt the gag order by arguing that RTs aren't endorsements. The Am Law 100 is also out and we talk through …
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We continue breaking down the U.S. News & World Report law school rankings and the chaos that its new methodology introduced. And we know exactly who to blame for breaking these rankings. Elon Musk recently went in for a deposition defended by Quinn Emanuel's Alex Spiro and earned a motion for sanctions. And a Berkeley Law protest goes viral, but a…
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Making The Journey From Biglaw To In-House with Catherine Dawson - Episode 170
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In this episode, Kathryn interviews Catherine Dawson, General Counsel at Affinipay, discusses her career transition from big law to in-house counsel, emphasizing her interest in technology. She also talks about the benefits of using AI in legal practice, such as task automation and increased efficiency. Dawson recounts her experience of working par…
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US News Rankings Continue Slide Into Bonkerstown
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Haphazard ranking serves as a reminder that service hasn't quite found the right formula after law schools started withdrawing their data. _______________ The full U.S. News & World Report law school rankings are out and they are... something. Duke is tied with Harvard? NYU nearly drops out of the top 10? Are we just hurling darts at a dartboard he…
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Sexism And Harassment In Biglaw Are Nothing New with Erin Gordon - Episode 169
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In this episode, Kathryn interviews Erin Gordon, author of "Look What You Made Me Do", a memoir exposing a toxic culture in a prominent law firm. Erin shares her experience of continuous micro-harassments, personal defamation, and inadequate work allocation, leading to extreme stress and impeding her professional growth. Despite having a strong leg…
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Supreme Court, Disney, And Trump -- A Wild Week In Review
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Breaking down the action-packed final week of March. ___________ Special guest Liz Dye joins us to talk about the week that was. First, we delve into the abortion pill oral argument where even most of the conservatives scoffed at the right-wing effort to let an Amarillo courthouse second-guess the FDA on science. Almost as though the Chief Justice …
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The Path To In-House with Dina Segal - Episode 168
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In this episode, Kathryn interviews Dina Segal, the Chief Legal Officer at Gusto, and discusses her personal and professional journey including her transition from a big law firm to an in-house counsel position and her experiences as a working mother. She speaks about the Lexis Plus platform's innovative Judicial Brief Analysis tool and highlights …
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A Work Partnership Makes All The Difference with Cara Bain and Allison Rosner - Episode 167
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In this episode, directors Cara Bain and Allison Rosner from Major Lindsay in Africa discussed the trajectory of their legal careers and the importance of workplace partnerships. While detailing their unique career paths, they stressed the benefits of diverse backgrounds and perspectives in enhancing team performance. They encouraged listeners to b…
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Did Joe Biden Get More Standing Ovations At The State Of The Union Or On Cold Call
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Conservative justices can't stop telling on themselves when it comes to forum shopping. __________________ Joe Biden says he got a standing ovation for trying to BS his way through a law school cold call. We call BS on that. Also Cooley Law School finds itself at the bottom of the heap when it comes to bar passage rates again. At some point, the AB…
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Parental leave and a bumbling Supreme Court highlight the week. _____________________________ Are law firms going to get stingy with parental leave? While most firms report solid revenue, sparking resentment over a few weeks of leave seems like a weird strategy, but DLA Piper recently cut back on the leave available to non-birthing parents. It's a …
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Bond... unaffordable cash bond. _________________________________ Donald Trump needed to put up some cash before E. Jean Carroll can begin executed the judgment she has against him. Instead, Trump tried to argue that he was simply too rich to put up a bond. The argument was not persuasive, but it did get Above the Law mentioned on Stephen Colbert. …
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Return To Office Policies Attempt To Catch Bees With Vinegar
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Another firm begins cracking down on office attendance through punishment. Law firms want lawyers back in the office, but if they don't want associates spending that office time fielding calls from recruiters, it's time to consider incentives that treat lawyers like professionals. A Bush judge questioned Trump's manhood and Amy Wax fights back agai…
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How To Go From Just A Lawyer To A Rainmaker with Sejal Patel - Episode 166
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In this episode, Kathryn interviewed Sejal Patel from Sage Ivy Consulting. Sejal traces her unique career from law to consulting, emphasizing that law schools should better guide students about alternative legal careers and business development. She suggests young lawyers maintain their professional relationships from law school, cultivate new ones…
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Hard To Say Where Arrested Lawyer Went Wrong But Posting About Selling Drugs Probably Didn't Help
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The Alabama Supreme Court ruled that frozen embryos are living children for the purposes of Alabama law. And while there are a lot of serious implications for the future of family fertility efforts, let's take a second to consider how much this absolutely breaks the state's rule against perpetuities. An attorney in the YSL case faces gang charges h…
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Law Firm Managing Partner Shares Her Journey To The Top with Frieda Garcia - Episode 165
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Kathryn interviewed Frieda Garcia, a managing partner at BAL. Frieda shares her journey to becoming an immigration lawyer, primarily influenced by her family's legal immigration issues. Although the field is challenging due to its complexity and politicized nature, it is also rewarding, particularly in cases where she's assisted scientists and nurs…
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Even-keeled professionalism may pay off over time, but being a mercurial lunatic always pays off now. ______________________________ Former Trump aide Stephen Miller used Super Bowl week to launch a stunt employment discrimination complaint against the NFL. The rule in question is the subject of a much better legal challenge that it doesn't do ENOU…
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Lawyers Need To Invest In Professional Development with Elise Holtzman - Episode 164
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Kathryn interviewed Elise Holtzman, President of The Lawyer’s Edge, who shares her journey from pre-med to law and discusses challenges faced by lawyers. She highlights the pressure being overwhelming leading to visible stress, but advises breaking down goals into smaller achievable tasks. Elise also points out that self-doubts often block individu…
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We're reaching peak Alina saturation. ___________ Last week may have officially been "Legalweek" but it was bad lawyer week at Above the Law, where Alina Habba dominated traffic with her ongoing futility. Her rapid retreat from the very phony "it's actually bias that so many prominent lawyers all worked at Paul Weiss" motion after being informed of…
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Decision Fatigue Might Be Hurting The Quality Of Your Work with Susan Myres - Episode 163
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Kathryn interviewed Susan Myres, a Managing Partner of Myres & Associates PLLC, who discusses the prevalence of “decision fatigue” in the legal industry. She suggests lawyers take regular breaks and maintain a work-life balance to counter fatigue and stress. She emphasizes the components of self-care and health in a lawyer’s responsibility to their…
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I Screwed Up Basic Trial Procedure And All I Got Was This Lousy Swimsuit: The Alina Habba Story
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Sometimes you can't actually fake being smart. _________________________________________________ Alina Habba may soon be replaced in the Trump legal team constellation, but we'll always have memories of her crackerjack legal analysis and the stupid swimsuit debate. There are four justices who don't seem to care about the Supremacy Clause. And Davis…
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The Fight For Sane Gun Regulation Continues At The Supreme Court with Doug Letter and Shira Feldman - Episode 162
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Kathryn Introduces guests Douglas Letter and Shira Feldman from Brady United, an organization focused on reducing gun violence. They discuss their driving factors for practicing law, touch on their work, and explore specific gun laws, including the case of United States vs Rahimi, relevant to domestic violence prevention. Shira outlines the current…
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Alina Habba Goes Full Lionel Hutz In Latest Trump Trial
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'The only rules are there are no rules' apparently doesn't fly in Judge Kaplan's courtroom. ____________________________________ We don't even talk about Alina Habba's weird swimsuit thing on the show because it broke after we wrapped recording (next week, I guess!), but we have more than enough material discussing Trump's lawyer bumble through bas…
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Donald Trump's Legal Team Decides Not To Ask Permission OR Forgiveness
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Who needs a judge's approval to start ranting in court? Every other person ever, you say? ___________________________________________________ Donald Trump's legal team informed Justice Arthur Engoron that their client would deliver closing remarks in violation of basic New York rules, setting off a series of decreasingly coherent emails with the ju…
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Roberts Explains That Artificial Intelligence Can't Replace Judges Because How Would Billionaires Fly An AI To Luxury Resorts Anyway?
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Maybe GPT-5 will want a free RV? _______________________________________________ The Chief spent his entire annual report on the federal judiciary on the rise of artificial intelligence and how AI cannot possibly replace judges because the judge is so much harder and more nuanced than, say, calling balls and strikes. Not that anyone would be stupid…
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Civil Rights Are About More Than Liberation with Dylan Penningroth - Episode 161
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Kathryn interviewed Dylan Penningroth to discuss the intersections of Black history, law, and the civil rights movement. Penningroth, author of "Before the Movement: the Hidden History of Black Civil Rights", stresses the importance of viewing the Black community as a diverse group with various perspectives, and using the law as both an instrument …
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The highs and mostly lows from the year that was. __________________________________________ As we turn the page to 2024, we reminisce over the top stories at Above the Law over the past year. Layoffs, salary hikes, ethical quagmires at the Supreme Court, Donald Trump's criminal cases... the legal industry provided a lot of fodder for Above the Law…
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Happy Lawyers Do Exist with Amanda Wolfman - Episode 160
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Kathryn interviewed Amanda Wolfman, who shares her career transition from social work to law and advocates for diversity, equity, and inclusion within the legal field. From her experiences at various law firms, she emphasizes the importance of problem-solving skills and having these values ingrained in all facets of a firm's operations for it to be…
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Law Firm Mergers Are Opportunities For Women with Melinda Wallman - Episode 159
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Kathryn interviewed Melinda, a Partner based in London, who focuses on the recruitment of partners into elite international firms in the UK and Europe. In the course of her 25-year career, she has placed hundreds of partners and partner-teams into AmLaw 100 and UK 20 firms and has launched numerous offices for law firm clients. She successfully rep…
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The Unbearable Lightness Of Being Rudy's Wallet
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Law firms may hem and haw about raises, but they're still doing more than all right for themselves. Rudy's defamation trial did not go well. Before the latest development in the case, we talked about Michael Cohen's fake case brief and the implications of legal technology on criminal justice.By Legal Talk Network
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The Future of DEI with Natalie E. Norfus and Shanté S. Gordon - Episode 158
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Kathryn interviewed experts Natalie E. Norfus and Shanté S. Gordon discussing the legal industry, the application of AI in legal research via Lexis Plus's new platform, and promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). Regarding burnout, Shanté advises identifying needs and seeking support. Natalie emphasizes realism in work allocation and sett…
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The Firm's Doing Great... Also We're Doing Layoffs.
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No one wants to admit weakness, but K&L Gates trying to put a smiling face on layoffs left a lot of observers cold. Meanwhile, Stephen Miller is mongering about a conspiracy to make Taylor Swift famous that somehow doesn't revolve around her talent. And Joshua Wright has brought a lawsuit against ASS Law despite still failing to understand that his…
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The Fight For Justice For The Last Colony with Philippe Sands - Episode 157
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Kathryn interviewed Philippe Sands, who discussed his extensive law career including trade and human rights cases, his work on the Chagos Archipelago case for Mauritius, and his aim to humanize law through understanding case individuals. Philippe also provided insight into his role as a counsel for Samoa regarding nuclear weapons, diving into the r…
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