Sweet Briar Farm

A Tiny Homestead

Today I'm talking with Kelsey at Sweet Briar Farm. You can follow on Facebook as well.

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00:00
This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Kelsey at Sweetbriar Farm. Good afternoon, Kelsey. How are you? I'm good. How are you, Mary? I'm good. It's been kind of a crazy day here, but I'm ready. So tell me about yourself and everything you guys do at Sweetbriar Farm. Oh, boy. Well...

00:29
My husband, Mike and I run our small family farm together. We have five kids and our farm is tiny. We're just under six acres and we got started here about 10 years ago. Okay, and what do you guys do on your farm? Well, right now we're getting into produce season. So...

00:57
Mike is the one with the green thumb, and he grows all different kinds of tomatoes and beans, cucumbers, pumpkins, squashes, the works. And then in addition to produce, we have livestock. So we raise dexter cattle, which are the smallest standard breed of cattle. And in addition to our dexers, I have a small herd of Nubian goats.

01:27
Our oldest child has her own herd of one mini Nubian goat and we've got some chickens too for laying hens. Okay. So, this is a question I always ask, what made you guys decide to do this? Well, I think it's something that Mike grew up with. He grew up gardening and being involved with agriculture. So that's something that was very familiar to him.

01:56
For me, it was a bigger leap. I grew up in a subdivision on the west side of Michigan and I had little tiny dogs growing up. But my grandfather used to have a dairy farm with like a hundred head of Holsteins. And he sold the farm before I was born, but I grew up hearing stories about the farm and how cool it was. So I think it's something that always kind of...

02:25
just simmered in the back of my mind about how much fun it would be to be a kid on a farm. So after Mike and I moved in together and got married and were able to, you know, have a place of our own with a little bit of space, we, you know, he put in his big garden and we started with chickens. That was back, gosh, 2009. Yeah. So 15 years ago, we first started. And I thought he was crazy.

02:54
but it sounded like fun. So yeah, we just do it because we enjoy it. That's the best kind of crazy. And I love that your husband is the one who has the green thumb because my husband is the avid gardener as well. I have a green thumb, I can grow plants. I've done it before, I will do it again. But he is the one who loves to get out there and work in the dirt. And it's the way he de-stresses from his jobby job, his regular job.

03:23
That's awesome. Yeah, it's really nice when a couple can compliment each other because if we depended on me to grow our food and plant form, we would be very hungry. Yes, and I'm the one that gets depended on to actually cook the food that comes out of the garden. I am all good with that because I love to cook. So it works out great. Yep, it's wonderful when our skills that we're good at compliment the other ones. Absolutely.

03:53
Yeah. So you said you have kids? Yeah. Yup. We have five children. We just had number five in January. Um, so our oldest is 12. Uh, she's our daughter and then the rest are boys. So we have a 12 year old daughter and then our boys are 10, eight, six, and four months. Geez. You are a busy mama and a busy dad. Yes. Yeah. They definitely keep us happy.

04:23
Yeah, it's funny how much in common you and I have because my oldest is a daughter and all three of the younger ones are boys. Oh really? So yeah, we're batting a thousand on quinkanings here. Okay, so do you guys just do this for yourselves or do you try to make the farm profitable to support itself? I think our goals have changed over the years.

04:52
produce for ourselves and then anything extra we'd sell. And then we kind of swung to the other end where we were producing to make money and to make the farm a growing business and then we'd eat the extras. And I think now we're kind of swinging back towards the middle point where we want our farm to be able to sustain itself.

05:20
We still want to be able to produce food for a small number of other people, you know, to kind of make it a self-sustaining thing because for many years, all our extra money we were investing into the farm. And now it's time that it needs to pay for itself or things need to not be part of our farm. So. Yes. We are right there with you.

05:47
It's really funny when you start this thing, this project, this dream, you're like, we're going to do all the things and the farm is going to support itself and we're just going to be happy doing the work. And then you find out that that's not necessarily true and you're still happy doing the work, but the money isn't coming as easily as you maybe thought it would. We are in that same boat. And the other thing that's really strange.

06:16
is my husband does the farmers market on Saturdays in Lesor where we live. And in Minnesota, I don't remember where you guys are. Where are you again? We're in northern lower Michigan. Yeah. So you're north west east of us a little bit. Quite a bit actually. But anyway, he does the farmers market and sometimes he comes home with $25 and sometimes he comes home with over $250 and there's no rhyme or reason to it.

06:46
So it's a very up and down kind of business to be in. And so I think that we just all get into this and we love it, but then we realize that you have to adapt every waking moment of the day as to what is going on. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely true. As far as a business model to where it could be something that we could quit our day jobs, I don't know how we'd get there.

07:15
I don't see a path for us in Michigan where that's possible. At our scale, I don't see it happening. Yeah. If you're not a quote unquote commercial farmer, it's really hard to make it support itself. That's all there is to it. And my husband actually did quit his job two marches ago. Oh wow.

07:41
And part of it was he had had enough. He had been at the same place for almost 30 years. He was incredibly unhappy there, had been unhappy there since I'd met him, which was 20 years before. And he just came home one day and said, I need to not be at this place anymore. I need a mental health break. And I said, okay. I said, so you're gonna quit your job? And he said, I am.

08:08
I said, okay, what's next? And he said, we're gonna make this place go. And I said, oh my God, okay. Now bear in mind that this place is a three acre property with a really nice home on it and a big old pole barn and a old one car garage that is our woodshed and now has a farm stand and a heated greenhouse built. So we have all the things now.

08:36
make it go better than we had last year. This summer is now all rain in Minnesota, so our gardens are very slow taking off this year. All our plans for making it go bigger and better this summer may be delayed by the weather. That happens because we're growers, we're farmers. Yeah.

09:03
five months of mental health break and loved every moment of it. And then got himself a new jobby job back in November because we needed to have income. So what I'm telling you is don't give up the dream and you're doing the adjusting thing just like we have. So just keep dancing the dance because it's worth it. I think so. I can't imagine our lives without the farm. I think it's been incredibly positive for us.

09:32
Mike and I as a couple to have like a team project, like something we both do together. Because before that, I think we had independent hobbies that we did in the same places, but not necessarily things that we did together. It's really good for our communication skills too, yelling at each other, working livestock. Yes, I could see that happening. Hello, Mike. I wasn't sure if you were there or not. Yeah, I'm just listening in. Okay.

10:01
When toddlers play, it's called parallel play because they're doing their own thing next to each other. And that's what I think you're saying is that you and Mike were doing parallel things, but not intersecting things. Yeah, yep. We like to spend a lot of time out in nature. So we'd go to his family's property out in the woods and he would pretend he was a lumberjack and...

10:27
I would take the dogs on hikes so we'd be in the same places, but yeah, doing parallel things. Yep. Makes sense. So what is your... I'm so distracted. I'm sorry. What is your favorite thing about your lifestyle?

10:46
Hmm. I think it makes me feel powerful. Not overly powerful, but empowered in a way that I hadn't experienced before. So if I can walk a thousand pound bull on a halter, or if I'm brave enough to climb into a pig pen and give an 800 pound boar an injection of an antibiotic because he's, you know.

11:16
got a cough or something. Like if I'm able and brave enough to do those things, like what else can I do? What else could I encounter in my day-to-day life that could possibly be more intimidating than that? You're braver than I am. Well, it's, I don't know, you'll be surprised what you can do when it has to get done, right? Right. So I...

11:44
I think the other thing is like our small farm, the impact on our small community too. You know, we, as far as like our produce stand that we have, we sell our produce very cheap and it's clean, it's healthy. So we have a positive impact on our small community as well. And we get that feedback from people that, you know, we interact with in our front yard.

12:15
Um, you know, as far as the farm life goes, that's one of my favorite things is, you know, paying it forward, I guess, a little bit to the, to the community. Yeah. And that's something, um, we've been able to parlay, uh, some of the money we've made from the YouTube channel to donating to the local food bank. And, um, like during COVID, when it was difficult to get certain things, you know, like we had our eggs out, um, on the farm stand, you know, just, uh,

12:45
If you can and take a dozen to donate to a neighbor or something, because it was just hard. The community where we live is like a very low economic, like there's like a hundred percent of the students in our school district get free lunches. You know, there's, it's a depressed area and there's a lot of food insecurity. So it's really nice to be able to help.

13:14
alleviate that even just a little bit. Yes, we donate stuff to the food shelf every summer from the garden too. And the first summer we were here, we just wanted to get the hundreds of pounds of zucchini out of my kitchen. So we knew the people who run the food shelf were like, you guys want zucchini? I mean, everybody has zucchini right now, but do you want it? And the president of the...

13:40
Food Shelf was like, I will take any produce you want to hand me because we have people to feed and they will take it. And ended up taking boxes of squash and cucumbers and tomatoes down to the Food Shelf. And at the end of the summer, Galen, he's the one who was the president at the time and I think he still is, came.

14:07
to see us and just thanked us profusely for sharing our overabundance. And we thanked him for getting it out of my house. So we gained, they gained. I understand what you're saying. It's really nice to be able to help your community and your neighbors eat. Yes, absolutely. But it was really nice to get those squashes out of my kitchen too. I was very happy to see them go. Yeah, it doesn't take very much of a garden to overwhelm a kitchen.

14:36
No, no it does not. And we only have three acres, you guys have six. And a good percentage of an acre is garden here. So when we grow, we grow. It's not like the little backyard kitchen garden. It's a big garden. So when the weather is good, we are swimming in produce from mid-June until September. So yeah.

15:04
I understand what you're telling me. We are living parallel lives here except that you guys are younger than my husband and I am. I'm quite sure. We're in our mid-50s. I don't think you guys are there yet. I'm 41. Yeah. I'm just a little younger. Yeah. I think anyone can do this, but you've got to want to do it.

15:28
And I would not recommend starting this particular stage of your life when you're starting your 65-year-old stage of your life because it's hard work. I tell people, especially getting into livestock, you have to hate money. Yeah, because you won't have any for a little while at least. Exactly. Yeah. Thank God it's not actually all about money. I mean, it is. You have to make money to survive in this world. But...

15:58
But it's not all about money. You also have to have things that make you happy. And a lot of the time, the jobby job is not to make you happy. It is to give you money in the bank. Right. Yep. And that's why we have jobs. Exactly. So are the, I mean, not the four month old, because I'm assuming that one's a little too small to be helping out on the farm yet. But do the kids help? I mean, you said your daughter has a herd of one mini goat.

16:27
the other kids play to? Yes, yeah, they're all a huge help, especially this last year when I was pregnant and couldn't do nearly as much. So our daughter makes sure everybody has hay in the morning and at night, and our oldest son makes sure everybody has water. Our middle son is in charge of the cats and the dog and the eggs. And our six-year-old

16:55
feeds our bottle baby goat and every day he goes out and meets Pearl in the backyard and gives her a bottle. So sweet. Have you gotten photos of him doing that? Yeah, yeah. We've put some shorts up on our YouTube channel and Facebook pages. It is super adorable. There is nothing better than little kids with baby animals, I swear to God. It's just so fun.

17:22
There's nothing cuter than my 22 year old with a bunch of kittens trying to lick his feet and get in his lap too. And he's a grown man. So baby animals are adorable. I love them. It is wonderful. Yeah. We don't have big animals on the farm here because we don't have room for them to graze. If we had more acreage, we probably would have goats. We would probably have a couple of sheep and we might have a couple of many cows. But.

17:49
There's just no place for them to be able to graze. And as you guys know, feed for goats and sheep and cows is extremely expensive right now. Yeah, nothing's cheap. So I can't afford to feed the animals that I would love to have someday after I'm old and gray. Well, grayer than I am now, but older than I am now. So, okay.

18:19
I'm trying to think. What is the least favorite thing about what you're doing? Because if you got a favorite, you must have a least favorite. Well, I think our least favorite thing is just left the farm a few weeks ago. We raised pigs for about three years. We bred five years. We bred and raised pigs and the last pigs just left the farm in May. And you're not sorry to have seen them go? Not yet.

18:47
We've still got freezers full of pork and we don't have pigs right now. So I think we're happy with that. I don't know if we'll change our minds when the freezers are empty. I don't think I'll ever breed pigs again. It was fun while we did it, but it's a daily, twice a day chore and you can't leave the farm for vacation with them.

19:15
If you're just raising feeder pigs, that's a different story. You can sell feeders and stuff like that, but when you have breeding stock, you can't let them sell feed or they'll get too fat. It's a lot more peaceful now that they're gone. Yeah. I have read more than once about mama pigs being not very good at being mamas because they...

19:41
they aren't paying attention and sometimes they step on the babies or they roll over on the babies and the babies get hurt or they die. Did you guys go through that? Yeah, we've lost lots of piglets from those actions of rolling and crushing and stepping. We tried to do it without ferroing crates. Well, we never use ferroing crates, but we just didn't really have a good setup for it.

20:11
We tried to do it outside with a three-sided shed. The weather here in Michigan in the spring is unpredictable. When it gets cold, the piglets need to stay warm and they get too close to mom and mom's not paying attention. Then, yeah, she'll crush them. If we had a litter of 12, we'd usually average around eight piglets that would survive, which is pretty good. It's sad, but we were always hoping for that number.

20:42
Yes, and the truth of the matter is, is that there's always something sad right around the corner if you are on a farm or a homestead or a farmstead or however you want to say it because things die. Yeah, our veterinarian says if you have livestock, you have dead stock, which is a good way to sum it up. Yes, I had never heard that in all my life until I started watching a YouTube channel.

21:10
woman, young woman named Katie Van Slyke has this YouTube channel and she has her parents raise cattle and they both, her parents and her and her husband raise horses. And she said it on one of her videos and I don't know how come I never heard, if you have livestock you will eventually have dead stock, but it was the first time I'd heard it and I was like...

21:36
No truer words have ever been spoken. That is perfect. So yeah, and it's really hard. I have talked about this a lot on the other episodes I've done with people because the first time it happens, it crushes you. You will cry your eyes out. Second time it happens, you're still sad. You might tear up. Tenth time it happens, you're like, well, this is how it is here. And you do everything you can.

22:05
to take care of your animals and make sure you're doing the right things, but you can only control so many things.

22:16
So it's hard. It is. Yeah. Some days farming just sucks. Yeah. Thank God there are good days that make up for it. Yeah. There's more good days than bad days. Yep. I've been sweating this constant rain we've been having in Minnesota for the last month, month almost daily rain. We feel like we're living in...

22:42
Washington State or Oregon right now because it's been raining almost every day. And I said to my husband I need an update on the gardens and the greenhouse stuff in the greenhouse because I'm feeling like we are going to fail this year. And he came in last night and he said here's the update and I said okay. He said the tomatoes in the garden are bouncing back they're starting to grow again because they stalled out and they were yellow you know leaves were starting to yellow.

23:10
He said, the peas have blooms. I was like, great. He said, we have green beans coming up. I was like, great. He said, all the stuff in the greenhouse is growing like crazy. And I said, okay. He said, honey, you can take a deep breath now. We're probably gonna have produce in about three weeks. I said, oh, okay, good. I have been so worried about all of this for a month. I didn't realize how much I was holding my breath until he gave me the update.

23:38
So even with produce, it's not even about just losing livestock. If you're afraid you're going to lose your produce, your potential produce, that will drive you insane too. Yeah. We've had a rough few years in a row with pumpkins. Three years in a row. Yeah. Dry, cold springs. Spend a thousand dollars on seed and then basically lose the crap because of drought. Yeah. Yep.

24:08
There's a reason that the big operations have crop insurance. Right, yep.

24:18
I don't know if there's crop insurance for small operations. I should probably look into that. I don't think there is, but. You could check with your USDA office. I don't know if there's a size limit. I think we've always figured it was too small of potatoes for us to worry about, but it's different for everyone. Yeah, I have no idea because I've...

24:43
This is what happens. I get talking to people on the podcast and I'm like, Oh, I hadn't thought about that yet. I should probably look into that. I do this all the time. My husband gets home from work and we're having dinner. I was like, I talked to so and so today and he says, how did that go? And I say, I got reminded that I hadn't thought of this thing yet. You want to look into that or do you want me to look into that? You guys are so helpful. I really appreciate it.

25:09
So, okay, I am so distracted. Why is it called Sweet Briar Farm? Well, our home was built in 1880, and it was built by one family, and the house stayed in that family's possession until we bought the house in 2012. And there were pictures that they left for us of the house right around 1900.

25:39
And it had this sign on the front of the house, Sweetbriar Farm. And when we purchased the house, that same sign was hanging on the side of our pole barn. So it's been Sweetbriar Farm for almost 145 years, 144 years. So it didn't feel right to change it. Yeah, no. Have you looked into the family that owned it before you did? We've met the, you know, the remaining.

26:09
brothers, basically, who sold us the house through the estate of their father who passed. So we've met them and they've told us a little bit about the history of the farm. And I've read some, there's some local history books in our local library. So there, you know, people have been farming here basically since probably the 1870s. It used to be a stockyard. I know they used to raise Guernsey cattle here.

26:38
And at one point there was a big apple orchard. And our house was even featured on a, like a brochure to attract settlers to the area. I love that. That's so great. Yeah, it's really cool. So it's neat to kind of get to be stewards of a historical place, a place with history that at least we know the story of.

27:07
Which is fun. Yeah, we had a guy pull into our driveway the first or second summer we were here. We've been here almost four years. And we were out working in the garden. He just pulled in, got out, and we didn't know who he was. We were like, who is this? And he came over and introduced himself. And he said, my father used to own this place. And we were like, oh, what can you tell us about it? And he said, over there was an actual barn, not a pole barn.

27:37
but a barn barn. So we have a pole barn now. And I said, like the rounded roof barn? And he's like, yeah, I think so. He said, I don't think it was the diagonal kind. It was the rounded one. And I said, so what did he grow? And he said, well, where you're standing in your garden right now used to be all pumpkin patch. And I was like, OK, do you know how long ago it stopped being a pumpkin patch? And he said, 40 years ago.

28:06
He said no one has grown a garden in this spot since then. So basically our garden hadn't had anything grown on it except wildflowers and weeds and grass for 40 years.

28:25
And that makes for some really, really good soil when you're getting ready to put in a garden. So we were very excited to hear that because when we put the offer in on this place, we didn't have a soil tester with us, so we couldn't check the pH, we couldn't check anything. And we basically were crossing our fingers that the soil would be good to get the garden in. And we lucked out huge.

28:52
So it's really nice when people know the history because then you can find out. Yeah. We were very excited and also found out that the guy, the guy who had stopped in to tell us about his dad owning the place 40 years ago or 50 years ago, whatever it was, had honeybees and he only lives like three miles away. So his honeybees pollinate our plants.

29:20
That reminds me, actually the worst thing on the farm, at least favorite, is my bees. Oh, okay. So what's up with your bees? Oh, no, it started as a hobby and it grew too big and it's my least favorite chore on the farm. I would rather have the pigs back. So if you don't love it, is it still worth doing it?

29:48
Uh, it's, it's, it's the liquid gold that I'm after. Yeah. That's what makes it worth it. So what do you not like about it? Is it just, is it just a hassle to have to maintain the hives? Yeah. And it's, well, it's heavy lifting and, and I call myself a lazy beekeeper. So I have yet to be in a bee hive. I just, um,

30:15
let them kind of go natural and then I add honey boxes as I need. So that means that they swarm. So I ended the year last year with 12 hives, 6 survived the winter, and then all 6 of the hives swarmed, but I'm able to catch them easily because they go into one of my apple trees. The problem is that right when they swarm, I'm always doing some other...

30:43
farm job and I have to stop what I'm doing to go catch a swarm. So they're just a pain in the butt. Yeah, they pick the most inconvenient time to decide they're going to vacate their premises. Yes. And usually it seems like they swarm just before a thunderstorm rolls in or something. You can, in certain times of the year, I walk outside in the morning and I say it feels like a swarmy day and sure enough, I'll have a swarm later on in the afternoon. And yeah.

31:12
I'm dealing with that. Okay, well, we're past half an hour, but I have one more question. If you were talking to somebody you happen to meet at the grocery store or the farmer's market or wherever, and you were talking to them about what you do, and they were like, we want to do that too, what advice would you give them?

31:38
I think some of the best advice we saw or received was start with the smallest amount of infrastructure you need to get started. Don't go crazy buying fancy brand new everything. Buy used equipment. Start with the minimum you need to get going because I think every single year might change is.

32:06
I think we went 10 years in a row and every year he changed the chicken coop. And we finally got a chicken coop we like now and he's constantly changing the hay feeders and the fence lines and the shelters for the animals. Like he's constantly perfecting everything. And if we had dropped a ton of money, you know, buying something fancy and brand new, it almost certainly wouldn't have been what we wanted. Yeah. So start small, start simple and then change it as you go. Yeah.

32:36
And then the other thing would be like if you're trying, you know, want to do farmers markets or anything, something like that. Uh, it putting in a garden is, is cheap to do. Um, I mean, you could hire somebody to road until an acre or whatever, if you don't have the means to do it yourself, but you know, seed is, you know, for tomatoes or whatever, very cheap. Um, and easy to do anybody can do it.

33:06
Um, still to this day, our produce is the most profitable thing on the farm. I mean, we use produce money to pay for hay. So, um, it's, it's, it's easy to do. Um, if you're not afraid of, you know, doing a little back bending and, and picking and stuff like that, but, um, yeah, start, start, start with a produce stand and work your way into chickens. And.

33:36
larger livestock as you as you as you feel. Yeah, that sounds about right. That's what we're doing. All right, guys, I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me today. Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a good evening. You too. Bye.