18. The True Cost & Lack-Of-Routines of VAN LIFE @themilesvanlife

A Travel Path Podcast

What a great conversation we had with Chad and Eileen Miles from “The Miles Van Life.” The couple have been traveling in their self-converted van for 18 months, along with their Australian Shepard, Sadie. They run several businesses and share the both the struggles and joys that van life brings them.

Cost

Did you know living in a van could actually be more expensive than a typically home? We take a deep dive into some of the expenses Chad and Eileen face while on the road.

Routine

Often, what’s not thought about before someone makes this type of a commitment is how their routine will be affected. If you are currently working from home, you have probably set up a morning routine that allows you to get an early start and stay productive.

We discussed that although you don’t necessarily have to say “goodbye” to your routine, you have to be prepared for some changes. Setting up and taking down your office everyday takes time, and you may find yourself having to pump out your tanks midway through the day.

Places to Stay

We discussed how at first, finding places to stay was difficult and how they were frequently paying for campsites. Tune in to see how they have learned to not stress out so much over where they are staying, and how nowadays they mostly stay for free.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

02:00 What do you do for work?

06:00 What is a typical day or week look like?

08:00 How is your work routine affected by working out of a van?

11:30 How has Starlink worked for you?

14:15 How long did it take you to travel once you got the idea?

17:00 Was van life always the plan?

18:30 What was the van build process like?

23:30 What are your biggest travel frustrations?

27:15 What do you love most about your travel lifestyle?

29:15 What does a weekly or monthly budget look like?

32:00 How much does Starlink cost?

33:15 What is it like traveling with a dog?

34:45 Is van life sustainable and how long do you plan on continuing?

36:00 What has been your coolest travel experience?

37:30 What have you learned you need and don’t need while traveling?

41:00 How do you find places to sleep?

43:30 What is an actionable step someone could start doing now?

Chad and Eileen on Social:

· Miles Van Life: https://www.instagram.com/themilesvanlife/

· Eileen’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eileenrosemiles/

· Eileen’s Website: https://www.eileenrose.me/

· Eileen’s Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-inward-journey/id1666397129

· Chad’s IG: https://www.instagram.com/chadmmiles/

· Chad’s Podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2228949/share

Links

· Insight Timer Meditation: https://insighttimer.com/

· Kindle: https://amzn.to/49RxkAV

· National Park Pet Policies: https://www.nps.gov/subjects/pets/visit.htm

We may earn commission from products purchases on this page

Sleeping

· iOverlander: https://www.ioverlander.com/

· Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps

Past Episode

· Linneas Episode #9: https://atravelpath.com/solo-female-van-life/

YouTube Channels Referenced:

· Living Big in a Tiny House: https://www.youtube.com/@livingbig

· Chris and Sarah: https://www.youtube.com/@chrisandsara

· Sarah and Alex James: https://www.youtube.com/@SaraandAlexJames

· Mathers on the Map: https://www.youtube.com/@MathersOnTheMap

· Linnea and Akela: https://www.youtube.com/@Linneaandakela

Most Popular Blogs:

· Most Popular Travel Hacks: https://atravelpath.com/money-saving-travel-tips/

· Travel Gear: https://atravelpath.com/travel-gear/

· How to Budget For Gas on a Road Trip: https://atravelpath.com/how-to-budget-for-gas-for-a-road-trip/

· Our Favorite RV Upgrades: https://atravelpath.com/rv-upgrades/

· How Much We Made Renting Our RV: https://atravelpath.com/renting-camper-van/

· Never Run Out of Gas on a Road Trip: https://atravelpath.com/road-trip-tip/

*All content from atravelpath.com, including but not limited to The Travel Path Podcast and social media platforms, is designed to share general information. We are not experts and the information is not designed to serve as legal, financial, or tax advice. Always do your own research and due diligence before making a decision.

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Transcript

Host: Chad and Eileen, welcome to the Travel Path Podcast.

Guest: Hey, thanks for having us. Hi, so happy to be here.

Host: Yeah, so we know you on Instagram as the MilesVanLife. You travel with your dog Sadie. You've been to 47 states, which is a heck of a lot more than Hope and I have been to. Got a few businesses between teaching meditation, marketing consulting, and hosting a podcast, which I know is no small feat. So, a lot to uncover here. Why don't we first just start by having you share a little about yourselves?

Guest: Yeah, so we're Eileen and Chad. We have been living in our van on the road for about 18 months full-time. We completed our van about two years ago, and so we've spent about 18 months traveling, and now we've spent five months back here in Michigan. As you said, we have a 50-pound Australian Shepherd, her name is Sadie, and she lives in the van with us as we travel. And yeah, we're just very passionate about this lifestyle, so we're excited to dig into it more with both of you.

Host: Currently, you're working as you have your own businesses, right? Marketing consulting and then teaching meditation. How did you get started in that?

Guest: I started leading meditations when the pandemic hit, and before we hit the road, I got into teaching meditation on Insight Timer. And then from there, I did actually, before we hit the road, I did take on a part-time job because we needed some consistent income. And then it wasn't until about, actually, I was just looking at this, it wasn't until about September last year, I decided to, well, the year before that, I forget that it's a new year. It wasn't until about September 2022 when I decided to dive in fully and lead meditation from the road and lead meditation teacher trainings from the road too. And yeah, it's been super fulfilling and really hard at some points, but it's been really, really exciting and something that Chad and I work on together too. And for me, I do marketing consulting work. I had a full-time job leading a small marketing team at a financial firm in the Metro Detroit area before we were living in the van. And so part of the process of transitioning into van life was me leaving that job, going and starting my own business, and that's what I run today.

Host: Very cool. So between the travel and the remote work, which came first? Did you have this dream and this desire to hit the road and then work towards finding remote jobs? Or were you stuck with remote jobs and realized you could travel?

Guest: It was more so we had full-time jobs that required us to be in a certain location, and it was during the pandemic that it really opened up our eyes to the idea of remote work. When the pandemic hit, we went and we did some traveling, and we spent some time up in Northern Michigan, and we were working remotely for three or four months. And I think that's really when it got our gears turning, and we started thinking, could we make this more of a permanent lifestyle? So then that started our gears in the whole process of starting to make decisions and think about all right, well, both of our jobs required us to be in the office and were likely going to require us to go back into the office. And so we had to start thinking about how we were going to create work that was going to allow us to live this remote lifestyle. So we had to adapt and make some changes in order to make this a reality.

Host: Nice. And Eileen, you had mentioned when you first started out, you had picked up a side job remotely to help fund your travels. How were you able to get that job?

Guest: That was just something I looked for. I spent quite a few months kind of looking online and figuring out what felt in alignment. And they were open to me working remotely. And then it just didn't work out, unfortunately. And I also see it as a sign of, okay, you need to dive in fully and lead meditations and do what you really, really love. So it's all worked out.

Host: Was that like a meditation-related job, or did you find it through Upwork doing like blogging, that type of stuff?

Guest: No, it was a totally different job, just working for a mental health company, which I did love because I was able to work remote, of course. And then I was a part of a community and a team, which felt really good because I loved going to work. It was almost social for me too. And so then when the pandemic hit, it was hard. And even now, entrepreneurship is lonely, but I find ways to feel a part of a team. But yeah, it ended up working out.

Host: That's great. So between the three businesses you have going on right now, right? So between those three hats you're wearing, what does your typical day-to-day or week look like?

Guest: Yeah, I mean, I think a week like ours, although it can vary, a lot of times we have evening meetings that we have, or we will be leading a meditation in the evening. We also do a meditation teacher training. A lot of times, those are in the evening. So aside from those things, I would say we still work a relatively normal 9-to-5 type schedule with the clients that we work with and some of the different projects that we're on or meetings that we have are typically scheduled during the workday. So a lot of times, Monday to Friday, we are a little bit less mobile. We're camped out somewhere, whether that's by a city or if we're positioned somewhere and we've got our Starlink. We're not really moving as much during the week. We are, for the most part, working in a fairly typical schedule. And then the weekends are a time where we really go unplug and explore and take advantage of the fact that we don't have people maybe calling or emailing us. So it looks different in the van, of course. There's always unique elements to the work. There's always things that you don't necessarily plan for. And as we like to say, things tend to just kind of go slower or take longer than you think. But for the most part, our weeks resemble a typical workweek.

Host: I feel like that's the big distinction between people who are van-lifing like vacationing for extended road trips versus people who are working full-time. Like when we did our trip a couple of years ago, it was a two-month vacation. We went, we saw, we were driving like 500 miles a day, going to different destinations. But now this next trip we're going to be taking is going to be much similar to what you guys were explaining, where we're going to be working probably in the same location for like six, seven days and just working all day and then making those smaller movements. You know, perfectly down south, it's freezing right now in Connecticut. But one question I wanted to ask was, and this is probably getting a little bit selfish because this is what we're going to be doing, but how much time would you say, if you're working remotely at home, a physical Sticks and Bricks house, versus working remotely in your van, but the van's stationary? How much time does it add to your day between setup and take down and all that?

Guest: Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say, but the one thing I would say for sure is that if you picture being in your home office and if you work remotely and for the most part, let's say between the hours of 8 to 5, you could be sitting at your office getting work done for a majority of that time pretty consistently, you might have small breaks, you might stop for lunch. I have found, we have found that it's when you're traveling full-time in the van, it's hard to get that same, I guess, productivity of work done on a consistent basis because there's constantly things that are going on throughout the day that might need your attention, or you've got to drive somewhere, you've got to move, or you've got to go dump your toilet or fill up on water. There's all these different things that you have to think about and plan for. So I would just say, in general, it is a little bit more challenging to have those long, sort of productive days when you're working in the van because there's just a lot more variables.

Host: Yeah, so it sounds like that routine is something you're giving up.

Guest: Yeah, for sure. Every day is different. And I mean, it is distracting when you're working and it's a beautiful view, and okay, I'm going to go do a workout and then cold plunge and then, oops, it's been a couple of hours, you know? But what's great too is that we can choose when we want to work as well unless we have meetings or calls or trainings to lead. But we can choose that, and then the evening can look like a hike or something. Or we can start our day earlier, and there's just that flexibility that's so, so great.

Host: Yeah, I think it's important to just talk about that too because a lot of people might not realize that. But like right now, we've been working remotely in this house for a couple of months now, and we've developed this routine. And it's, you know, get up, get some work done, go to the gym. And then I'm in here, and I know you have the same routine. So that is something that people might not expect or anticipate if they're working from home now and they want to plan, you know, full-time travel and working in their van, something to definitely consider.

Guest: Yeah, I mean, if you want to live a lifestyle like this where you are traveling full-time, if you live in a van, I don't think it's fair to say you have to completely say goodbye to routine. But you definitely have to become a lot more comfortable living without it because there are so many things that happen, there are so many changes that you're constantly having to navigate that you can bring a little bit of structure into your day, but it's difficult to maintain consistent routine.

Host: Are you taking down and setting up your office every evening?

Guest: Yeah, well, our layout, which we're sitting at right now, has our table and seating area, which we love, and then we convert it into our bed. And so we do that every day in order to enjoy our food here, unless we want to eat outside and everything. And then work at this table. Chad's really excited because he got a table up front with our swivel seat up there. But yeah, and then if we're in the middle of nowhere, we have to set up our Starlink. And so it's definitely a process.

Host: Have you had luck with the Starlink?

Guest: So far, the Starlink has been amazing. We went over a year without it, and, um, I mean, we did just fine. We had one of the little Verizon hotspots, so that was dependent on our cell phone service. When we knew we were going to go to Alaska, it was actually funny. I mean, we were up in the Seattle area and we were about to start the trip to Alaska, and we were panicking because we didn't have one. So, I ended up finding someone in Seattle and buying a used one online. Anyway, we could not have done the trip to Alaska and back without it, so we've really enjoyed having the Starlink. It just gives you the opportunity to go to much more remote areas, and so that's made us, uh, it's allowed us to go off-grid a lot more and stay away from some of the bigger cities like we used to have to hang around. So, it's been really nice.

Host: Have you had luck with it, with Starlink in, like, National Forest areas?

Guest: Well, you might answer this better, but I will. That brings me back to a really frustrating moment when we tried to use it for one of my virtual events and it just wasn't working because, yeah, we were in, yeah, it was a heavily wooded area and I think there was a couple I don't even remember exactly where we were. All I remember is it was very frustrating. Yeah, it wasn't working, but that was probably the one to two times where it didn't work. Otherwise, what would you say? It's definitely not perfect. Yeah, you've got to be set up in a good position. If you're in a heavily wooded area, you're going to have a lot of problems. Typically, you can get really fast internet, but you're probably going to have a lot of outages. And even as we've traveled with it, we have noticed, like, for video calls like this, um, it's pretty common that it's going to drop for a couple of seconds every, like, 5 to 10 minutes. So, it's not perfect for video calls, so you've got to kind of feel out how it works and in what situations it doesn't work as well. So, it's not perfect, but it does unlock a lot of unique opportunities that you couldn't have without it.

Host: Yeah, yeah, we're kind of rolling the dice on this next trip. We're not going to get it quite yet. We're going to see because we've heard the consensus on the podcast so far has been the T-Mobile HotSpot, but we are planning on going a little bit more remotely and, I've been asking, I haven't gotten an answer. I think yours is the best answer so far about how it works in the National Forest because the national forests are where they're remote, they're usually free camping, but there's forest and that's when the Starling tends to not work when it's shaded although there are areas where it's a little bit more thin you can get away with it, but yeah, we're thinking of just starting with T-Mobile and then seeing if we need to invest in Starlink. I think it's more East Coast from what we've heard is better service where we're going to be and then out west is where you can really start losing your data in your service.

Guest: For sure.

Host: So, from, I guess backtracking a little bit from when you guys thought about taking this trip when it first became, when it first came to your minds and you wanted to take whether an 18-month or just start full-time travel until the day you were actually able to do it, how long was that time frame?

Guest: I was kind of the first one who was interested in this whole van life thing, and that probably, that interest started like 5 years before we ever decided to actually hit the road. And it was one of those things where I followed some people on Instagram, I just thought it was really cool, I liked traveling, I had been on some road trips with my family and with some of my friends, and you know just kind of got the gears turning and made me think like I feel like this would be really fun. And then life happens, you know, we're young, we're graduating college, we're starting our careers, and so it just never really felt like there was a good time to pursue a lifestyle like this. And so then as we said when the pandemic happened we started working remotely, I think that really got us interested again in this lifestyle, and throughout the whole entire process it was probably, I would say 18 months to two years before we actually hit the road that we started to get really serious about it and eventually had to just essentially plant the flag in the calendar and say our goal was by January of 2022 we were going to hit the road and we missed that by a few months, we hit the road in April but it's one of those things where there's never a convenient time to uproot your entire life and go live in a van and travel full-time so I think eventually just came down to the point where we had to just pick a date and figure it out.

Host: I think it's smart and it's there's power in setting a date to April 2022 we had the same thing we wanted to take this trip before my 30th birthday and there's definitely power in whether you're writing it down or just you make a deal and make this goal together it just makes you want to work towards it that much more. How about you Eileen, did you have that same vision for that long or did you take a little bit of convincing?

Guest: I'm easily convinced, I mean, you know, as cheesy as it sounds I'm in love with Chad so wherever he goes I go. But I mean we started doing some traveling to tiny houses and we're like oh yeah we could do this we can live in a small space and it was super fun and my family growing up we didn't travel a ton and his did and so yeah I think he sparked within me something that was within me, the travel bug and I was easily convinced honestly.

Host: Very cool. So over those 18 months, did you have any other means like were you thinking of doing a travel trailer, buying a different vehicle or was it always van life?

Guest: Well, it actually started as, like, originally we were just kind of interested in the idea of living small and so at first we thought we were going to do a tiny house of some sort and maybe it was going to be more stationary and then we're like well but I think we actually want to have the mobility and we want to be able to travel and so then we started thinking about a tiny house maybe that was on a trailer. And as we went through the whole process there was a period in time where we were looking at buying an RV something that was a little bit bigger we just kind of kept going through the process and going to the process and factoring in all the costs that were involved with all those routes and all those options and eventually I think the both the cost and some of the flexibility in ability of the van is what ended up appealing to us most but yeah it went through a lot of iterations of what we thought this lifestyle might look like.

Host: Yeah, yeah, sounds like a way a similar path we considered a few different things we looked at like those little small tab trailers, which I was not going to be able to fit in, and then yeah the van, the mobility that's kind of what sold us. We had a 20-year-old 30-foot Wildwood which we thought about briefly taking cross country which I'm glad we did not. I think I'm convinced van life for couples is just the best way to travel, it's mobile, it's really all the space you need and yeah we had a blast doing it.

Guest: That's awesome. I agree, I think I'm glad we chose this van and chose to build it too we were looking at already built out ones and looking at RVs and it just didn't feel right I think we also were up for the challenge of building it out too.

Host: Very cool. So, speaking of that, so over those 18 months, you obviously had a few challenges getting into and transitioning to Van life. What was the build process like?

Guest: That was fun. I actually really liked it. I think he did a lot of it. I chose, you know, a lot of the paint colors and things like that and I learned how to use a drill and all of that. But I mean if there's one thing that any anyone listening needs to hear I feel like it's this, you don't have to be in construction or know what you're doing because I sure didn't when I started building the van. But I think it was a really difficult process but really rewarding. And now, kind of like I said a moment ago, you know, we're up for the challenge of building it and now looking around and feeling proud that we built it and we made it our own it's really rewarding, but I'm sure you have more to say on that.

So, we bought our van as an empty cargo van in December of 2021 and it just kind of sat until January and it wasn't until January where we really got serious about our build. So, all in all, the build took us about four, four and a half months which I feel like compared to some other builds was pretty quick and it was because we were working on it almost full-time. I mean I would spend almost the entire day while it was bright out working on the van doing as much as I could and then I would go do some of my work for my clients in the evening or in the morning. And then, I mean Eileen was with me often so we put a lot of time into our build which I think allowed us to get it done a little bit maybe sooner than most but it was a very intensive roller coaster of an experience. Yeah, it was hard.

Host: Yeah, I think that is the record, that's a record on the podcast. I know we've had between like 9 and 13 months I think it's been. We've had three van builds so far. Was so four and a half months was that what you expected how long it would take?

Guest: That's a good question. I guess I think it was about what we had planned for or expected, you know, it's one of those things where you when you start a project like this you just have no idea what it's going to entail if you've never done something similar it's just so hard to imagine all of the pieces and components that go into building a van and all of the unique challenges. So, I think in our minds we were thinking we could probably complete it in less than six months and that was the timeline that we had set and so it also towards the end especially became one of those things where we just started putting more time toward it to try to hit the timeline that we had established it was a lot of work.

Host: So, about four and a half months working basically full-time on it, were there any mistakes you made along the way that could potentially save a listener from some future troubles?

Guest: That's a good question. You know what I would actually say, which is probably not even what you're looking for, is it's okay if your van's not done, you can still go. Like, I think that's actually, in a roundabout way, like a mistake a lot of people do make is they really want it to be perfect and done before they leave, but I'm looking, we still have a little bit of reflection on our door and it's fine and it hasn't ruined our experience, you know? And your van is still... you're able to sleep in it and go see the world. So, um, but I don't know, can you actually think of one? I wish I had something more specific or tactical of, you know, make sure you don't do this.

I think Eileen would often give me a hard time because there'd be many days where she would come and I'd be out in the van and I would just be sitting staring at something, and then she'd come back out about two hours later and I would still just be sitting and staring at the same thing. It's true. So, I do think there's taking the time to plan and to think about your layout in general and to think about the systems and the subcomponents, and I spent a lot of time designing things on paper before I actually started building. I think all of that planning and a lot of the strategy work of how the whole thing was going to work, I think that probably lent a hand in allowing us to build more efficiently. All that time spent just kind of sitting and staring at things made it so that there really weren't any major mistakes that we made that really slowed us down. And so I think that was probably a big factor into the timeline that we achieved.

Host: Yeah, no, it sounds like just taking the time to prepare, you've avoided some of those mistakes you might have fallen into. And to your point, Eileen, you guys... it wasn't quite finished, but you guys have been able to, you know, here you are 47 States later versus somebody who was waiting until it was complete and ready to go, they're probably still working on it, right?

Guest: Yeah, there you go.

Host: Um, I guess fast forwarding a little bit to your current travel lifestyle, what are some of the big frustrations you currently face?

Guest: It's hard, especially being two entrepreneurs, it's hard to coordinate our schedules, that's the number one thing for us because sometimes we're in trainings or on calls that need to be really quiet. Um, and coordinating that can be difficult. So, um, I would say that's the number one frustration. I think the other sort of consistent frustration, and it's the thing that took us time to adjust to, and I don't know if you ever fully adjust to it, but when you live in a van like this, you have to get used to the fact that everything that used to be infinite becomes finite. So you have finite amounts of power, you have finite amounts of water, you have finite amounts of internet, all these different things that you never used to have to think about, now you have to think about every single day, multiple times a day. So wait, can I share my favorite stat?

My favorite stat is that the average American uses, I think it's 133 gallons of water a day, I think 33 a day, and we only... how many gallons? I already forgot, we have a 30-gallon water intake to use for four days at least, you know? So, yeah, to your point, that's one... my favorite stats to tell my friends, and they're like, "What?"

Host: So precious water. One tip we learned, we actually put... I'm not sure, do you have a shower in yours?

Guest: We do.

Host: We had the shower kitchen, but one thing we did is we put in a 5-gallon water jug with a pump on it so that we just, that's what we consumed. So, we never consumed any water from like our sink, so we basically had an extra 5 gallons, which again, you're using 133 gallons a day, but yeah, how long were you guys going between when you had to refill and pump out?

Guest: Typically, we would need to refill our water every four to five days. There's a lot of factors involved in that, but I would say with our sort of normal usage, a lot of eating in the van, a lot of doing dishes, we do drink water out of it, we have a water filter for drinking water, and then showering, we're typically not showering every day, we're certainly not taking long showers when we do, but usually we can get through probably about four to five days at a time.

Host: Yeah, they are lightning-fast showers. Yeah, you guys... we would typically... we have a 27-gallon freshwater, I think 14-gallon black and gray, and we would go between like 2 and 4 days before we had to refill, so depending on how conservative we're being with our resources. So just to note, you're not in a camper that has, you know, 50 or 100-gallon tanks, you're... it's really limited.

Guest: And sometimes you have to plan for the situation, you know? If you know you're going to be going sort of off-grid for a week, then you've got to plan accordingly. And then you've got to plan and think about all of your meals or maybe you're not showering as much, and so these are just all the things that are part of the lifestyle that you have to be aware of on a consistent basis. Maybe have to shower in the lakes, which we do a lot. Yeah, which is actually nice.

Host: It is freeing.

Guest: And I want people to know that we do shower, just maybe not as often, or we do use, you know, wipes or something to help freshen us up, and we do wash our face.

Host: You are clean people. Yeah, and this time of year, those, uh, baths in the lake, those are now cold plunges like you talked about earlier.

Guest: They are, but yeah, it's refreshing, it's good for you.

Host: Yeah. Now we talked about some of the frustrations. Now we'll transition a little bit. What is the one thing you love most about this travel lifestyle?

Guest: The thing that comes to mind first for me is... is the freedom of it. So, uh, one of my favorite stories is we were traveling on the west coast, and we were in Malibu, California, and, um, we were planning on continuing to go up the west coast, and we looked at the weather. It was... it was a Friday, it was about 10 a.m., and it was pouring rain. We looked at the weather, it was going to be in, like, the 40s and 50s for the next 10 days, it was rainy, and then we texted some of our friends who also live in a van, and they were in Phoenix, and they were by the pool, and it was 75 degrees. And so they were like, "Hey, why don't you come to Phoenix?" And so 10 a.m., we were in Malibu, and by like 6:00 or 7:00 p.m. that night, we were in Phoenix with our friends, sitting by the pool. So, that freedom, where you could really go anywhere that you want to go... there's always certain restrictions or limitations that might apply to what you can do and where you can go, but for the most part, you have the freedom to choose where you want to go and when you want to go there, and that's a really freeing feeling.

I just love seeing the world, or the country, rather. Um, it's just the coolest thing, you know? What I miss the most when, you know, we're in Michigan right now, but what I miss the most about being out on the road is we wake up and you open the door and you go right outside, for the most part. So, I just love that, being immersed in nature and getting outside every day and having those beautiful views to look at while you do work or relax. Now, it's not always a beautiful view, I want that to be made clear as well, as sometimes it's a parking lot view, but, um, I just... that's my favorite part, is seeing the country with my favorite person and meeting people along the way. That has been really special too.

Host: Yeah, the freedom, the beautiful places, and meeting all sorts of people, yeah. Um, we'll transition a little bit to some of the finances with life on the road. Can you break down what a monthly or weekly budget would look like?

Guest: So, I think one of the misconceptions about living in the van is that sometimes we'll tell people like, "Oh yeah, we live in a van and we travel," and they'll say, "Oh my gosh, you must save so much money, that must be such a cheap lifestyle," and it's really not. I mean, we've been home for the last five months in Michigan, and our expenses as we've been home, we're still mostly living in the van, but we spend a lot less money than we do when we are traveling full-time. So, to give an idea of some of the big things, you know, we do have loans and insurance for our van and so on. On a monthly basis, that costs us like $750 a month. Our two biggest expenses when we're on the road are our gas and our food, and between the two of those, we can easily be spending $2,000 a month, especially on gas. We drive a lot, so um, $800 to $1,000 a month is pretty typical for us as we're on the road. And then we're both self-employed, so we have to pay for our own health insurance as well, um, which is expensive. That costs us between five and $600 a month. So, when you start to add some of those, you know, foundational things together, and that's before we get into some of the more discretionary spending, that's a typical month for us. And so, yeah, it just, people tend to think it's a very, very cheap lifestyle, and some people do, that could be the case, I guess, for us, that hasn't been our experience.

Host: Yeah, no, yeah, you're right. And thank you for breaking it down so accurately, and it's a good point. I mean, when you're driving a lot like you guys are, you're spending a ton of money on fuel. But the alternative is if you're not driving a whole lot, you're probably staying in places longer. It doesn't necessarily balance out. I found it's more affordable to be a little more stationary. Um, but it all depends on how much you're driving, what state you're in, and yeah, there's a lot that goes into it. And groceries too, you're buying groceries more often because you have a smaller fridge, you're not buying in bulk. Um, and yeah, there's a lot to consider for sure. Are you guys typically looking for free spots to sleep for the night, or do you like the campgrounds? How are you finding spots?

Guest: We started with using campgrounds in the beginning, just because we weren't as comfortable with stealth camping, and we also had, like, an electrical power situation that wasn't working out, so we wanted to plug in more often. But now, I don't know, I think that was like the first six months of our travel. Now, we 100% try to stay in BLM spots out west for sure, or, you know, we'll find different areas near apartment complexes or parking rides even, you know, we, yeah. So, I don't even remember the last time we stayed at a campground.

Host: Nice, that's good. And as far as, so you're using the Starlink all day, and that's something you pay for per usage. So, how much is that costing you, being your sole internet source?

Guest: The way that the Starlink works is that, first, you have to buy the actual piece of equipment itself. That is $600, it's a one-time fee. And then, if you want to have their Roam service, which allows you to get internet from anywhere, you're not tied to one location, it's $150 a month. So, it does come with unlimited speeds and unlimited data, that part of it is very nice. But that's what it costs, $150 a month for the ongoing service. The other nice thing about it is that you can stop and start your service as you'd like. So, since we've been home back in Michigan and our Starlink has been stowed away the whole time, we've been using our hotspot. We just paused our Starlink service, so we haven't had that fee on a monthly basis. And then, when we hit the road again in a couple of weeks, we'll start it back up.

Host: Nice, cool. You travel with your dog Sadie. What would you say to somebody who says they cannot live this type of lifestyle because they have a dog?

Guest: I would say that bringing your dog in a van with you is the most joyful thing in the world because I can tell she loves to see all the views as well. And I mean, yes, the beginning is a little bit difficult to get your dog, or I've seen people have cats too, um, to get them kind of adapted to the lifestyle. But it's doable and it's just, it... I don't know what our van life experience would be without Sadie. So, I think I would say, yeah, don't let that hold you back. Um, I believe that we're giving our pets the best life ever, um, and ourselves. And it's just so much sweeter with them.

Host: Yeah, on your Instagram videos, it looks like she's having a blast everywhere you guys go.

Guest: So, yeah, the only thing I will say is, number one, is that, um, National Parks do not allow pets for the most part.

Host: That is mostly true. There are a few national parks that are more dog-friendly than others. I'll put a link in the show notes so you can check that out.

Guest: So, that can be the part that's tricky. But if you want to stay outside of the national parks or go into the national parks and we've, you know, left Sadie at a Rover, which is someone who personally watches the dog, and she has a field day. She loves it there too. So then we can go into longer hikes in the national parks. You know, you can make it all work out.

Host: Yeah, sure. Is this sort of thing sustainable? I know you said it costs you, if not the same, a little more living on the road. Is it sustainable, and how long do you plan on continuing van life for?

Guest: Yeah, I mean, I definitely think you can make it sustainable. And I think you can look online and see many examples of people who also make it sustainable. We've made it work for 18 months. And our intention as of right now is to, when we hit the road, travel for another year full-time. We're planning on going back to Alaska again this summer. So, does that mean it's easy all the time? Absolutely not, especially when you run your own business. Does that mean that our income doesn't fluctuate sometimes, and sometimes we can relax about money, and sometimes it's a little bit tighter? We experience all of those things. So, you know, if you apply all of that into your definition of sustainable, you can definitely do it for a long period of time. And there's plenty of people who have lived in their van or something similar and traveled for a lot longer than we have. So, I definitely think it can be... You've got to get creative, takes a lot of problem-solving, but you can definitely do it.

Host: Cool. A couple more questions before we wrap this thing up. What has been the coolest experience you have had while traveling?

Guest: There was this moment where, um, or weekend rather, we met up with a couple van life friends that were from Michigan too, shout out to Dave and Ally, we love you. Um, that's what's so cool is you meet these van life people and you're like, "I already love you, you're awesome." Um, but we went out to dinner with them, and then the next day, we went rock climbing with them. They let us borrow their gear and guided us through one of my scariest things I've ever done. But that was just such a cool experience and memory, um, because, yeah, just shows you how quickly we can make these friendships and trust these people and have a really, really good time. Well, the other one that I think is just a cool moment that we treasure is a similar group of people. We were... We had met people at a couple of different events on the road, and we all got together out in some State Trust land out in Arizona, outside of the Phoenix area, and we spent a week together, camped out there, and just being with people. There were like five vans that were all circled around for the week, and during the day, everyone would get their work done, but you get to hang out with your friends at certain points, and then at night, we'd all cook meals together and sharing different things, then we'd have bonfires, and one time we had a someone had a projector, and we watched some sports and some TV on the side of the van and sat outside. So, you just... You have these really unique moments that I don't know, normal life just doesn't quite afford you in the same way.

Host: Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's a community. And here we are talking to you guys. Has there been anything outside of internet that you've learned you can't live without, Starlink?

Guest: Yeah, I say that just because, as I mentioned earlier, if you want to be able to travel to some of the more remote locations, if you want to stay off-grid longer, if you want to stay in BLM or National Forest Service, if you want to go up to places like Alaska, if you want to be in the more remote places away from the city, I do think it has made that a lot easier and it just made it possible for us to do that. That wasn't really a part of our lifestyle before we got it. So, that is something that I've definitely enjoyed. I would say my Kindle, if you like to read, definitely have a Kindle because there's only so many places you can stuff your books in a van. So, that's been a lifesaver for me.

Host: Yeah, the Kindle, that is a new answer. Starlink, we've heard a few times, but the Kindle, that's a good point. Yeah, because if you're an avid reader and you're in a van, there's not a lot of room. If you're in the middle of nowhere and you finish a book and you want a new one, you have to wait till you get to a city or you have to figure out how to get it to you. So, that's what's great is that you can pick up and read another one right away. Has there been anything you've learned that you don't need while traveling?

Guest: I would say a full wardrobe. I'll shout out to another one of our great van life friends, Dedra and Garen. We went to Alaska with them, and Dee and I wore the same crew neck, Denali yellow hoodie or crew neck together, like, probably five or six days straight. You know, it's just... You don't need all these different options. And less is really more. And when you're out traveling, seeing the country and seeing beautiful things, it doesn't really matter what you look like. And re-wearing stuff as long as it's not filthy is totally fine. So, I would say you don't need a full wardrobe and tons of different shoes and all those things. Definitely get rid of stuff that you don't need and only take what you love. For me, I would say... I know it's not a super specific answer, but there's a lot of things that you don't need. I was... I was one of the people who, before we left, I wanted to have a plan for everything, for every random little thing that could happen or occur while we were on the road. I wanted to make sure that I had the right thing and I had a plan for it. And we traveled for like two or three months, and then we stopped back at home in Michigan, and we... We ended up just dumping so many things that we brought with us. And so, it's just a reminder that you can figure things out on the road, and if you need to go pick something up at the store, you can do that. If you need to make a plan for something or you need to solve some kind of problem, if you need to borrow tools from someone, you can find ways to solve any problem that you run into while you're on the road. And so, you don't have to plan for everything beforehand because you can never predict what's going to happen once you hit the road.

Host: Yeah, no, good points. If you could have listened to this podcast when you were first starting out, what is one question I didn't ask tonight that you wished I would have, and how would you answer that now?

Guest: I think for me, the biggest question that I had when we were thinking about living in the van was so unsure about what sleeping would look like, where we would sleep, and how we would find sleeping spots. So, I guess maybe the question would be, how do you go about finding places to sleep? So, to give a couple of thoughts on that, you know, the first thing that I would say is whenever you're going to a new area, I would suggest doing a little bit of research and having a general idea of what options might look like for you to stay. For example, if you're heading into an area like... I'm gonna use Sedona, Arizona, because we're going to be heading there once we hit the road, learning a little bit about, okay, it's difficult to stay in Sedona, Arizona, so when you get there, you're probably going to have to plan for the fact that you're going to have to stay 30 to 40 minutes outside of there. That's an example of just being familiar with some of the restrictions that might exist. And so, then you need to plan for that. Whatever you're doing that day, you need to allow time to go drive away and find somewhere else to sleep. So, that's kind of step one. And then using apps like iOverlander have been huge for us. They give you some good ideas of places that you could stay, very specific locations that might work. And so, I would recommend going and checking out apps like iOverlander. And then the last thing is, some of this is you kind of learn it through experience, but we've started doing a lot of stealth camping. Essentially, camping within cities and just trying to blend in with other cars at night. And, you know, you can develop a little bit of comfort with when you get to an area, feeling out what the situation might be like, do you feel comfortable there? I tend to go on Google Maps a lot, and I'll look at the satellite view overhead and I'll look for apartment complexes or streets that seem to have a lot of overnight parking. And then, we'll just go try to blend in. And if you're going to go that route, arrive late, leave early, and stay very low profile. But I think that was one of the biggest mysteries for me before getting in the van, was where the heck are we going to sleep? And maybe that's helpful.

Yeah, I was definitely anxious about that too, and I felt like I would start the day already worrying about where are we going to sleep at night, right? But you really figure out where we're going to go every night, which is helpful.

Host: Yeah, those are both great answers, and I think we share your frustration or the troubles we had in Sedona with trying to find a place. We looked a long time for a place to sleep there. It's a good tip you bring up about pulling up Google Maps in the satellite and just looking where there is overnight parking, big parking lots, just finding out where that is and hunkering down there. In most cases, the worst thing that will happen is you'll get a knock and you have to leave. But when you don't have any other options, it's something.

Yeah, for someone listening to this podcast right now who wants to set up a lifestyle similar to yours but isn't quite there yet, what would be one thing they could start doing today?

Guest: I think get clear on what is important to you and what would excite you the most. Do you want to live in a van or an RV, or do you want to travel in Airbnbs? Or, if you had a van, what would be important to you as well? So, I think just getting clear on that. And I mean, we did a lot of journaling before, too, and just kind of writing down, "Okay, what would be the top three most important things in the van for you?" And really discussing that. So, that's what I would say. And then, go try to experience things in some way. You don't have to buy a van or build a van in order to go try. Maybe traveling in a van, like Eileen said, we started going and traveling and staying in tiny houses just to get a feel for what that experience would be like. Are we okay existing in this smaller space? So, I think you can do some of that planning. If this is something that you're thinking about, and then ultimately, I think you just have to make a commitment and say, "We are going to commit to this lifestyle and pick a date, plan for it, and say, 'You know what? This is when we commit to living this lifestyle by.'" And you'll be amazed that if you do that, you'll be amazed at how you can solve problems and how you can figure out how to get to that point because you can figure out a lot of things. I was just going to say, too, we also set a date to have a little van life going-away party. So, when you have over a hundred people that are showing up to this event to give you hugs and see you later, that's also a really great motivator too because one of my favorite things Chad has said and really helped us start this whole journey is that going for your dreams or going after your dreams and creating the reality of your dreams is inconvenient. There really is never going to be a perfect time. So, just committing to a date, going for it, yeah, it's the best route.

Host: Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, there is no better time than right now. And when you have that party and a hundred people showing up, that's a lot of pressure to make sure you get going. Otherwise, it's anticlimactic if they all celebrate and you aren't leaving.

Guest: Yeah, totally.

Host: Have there been any other... I know you mentioned one previously, any other YouTube channels or books or other influences that helped motivate you and inspire you to travel?

Guest: Yeah, you know, I also, during this conversation, I totally forgot about our guy. We have a couple that we're going to share, but who's that Australian guy that we used to watch all the time?

Oh, Bryce on Living Big in a Tiny House. He's great. We watched those a ton. He just would interview people, and there'd be tours of their tiny houses. So, that was really inspiring and exciting. And then Chris and Sarah, they are on Instagram and YouTube, and they really showcased what living in a van would be like. We loved watching their YouTube channel. And then Sarah and Alex James, they are the ones that we purchased the van life build guide off of, and so they were really, really helpful as well.

Yeah, and then once we started our build, Mathers on the Map was a channel that we watched a lot of, and so they helped us a lot of the build process. And then, I know you had her on the podcast, but Linea and Akela, that was a channel that I spent a lot of time... I remember specifically on some of the wiring and some of the electrical components, I watched a few of her videos and found her to be really helpful during the build process.

Host: Nice, yeah. She has a great channel, and she talked a lot about, like you said, not only all the benefits and all, like, kind of the sunshine and rainbow, she went deep into kind of the downsides and everything that's involved with building in van life. So, yeah, she has a great channel. Check out. We'll link all those channels you mentioned in the show notes below. And one more time, guys, while my audience is checking those out, where can they find out more about you?

Host: We are @TheMilesVanLife on Instagram. And then my personal Instagram is @EileenRoseMiles. That's where you can find my meditation podcast called The Inward Journey. And then I'm on Instagram as well. I am @ChadMMiles. And my podcast is called A Level Deeper.

Host: All right, perfect. We'll link everything below. Chad and Eileen, thanks again.

Guest: Thanks for having us.

Host: Thanks, friends.