Former Wharton/Lauder Admissions Director Joins Accepted: Welcome Kara Keenan Sweeney [Episode 570]

Admissions Straight Talk

Show Summary

MBA admissions veteran Kara Keenan Sweeney has joined Accepted. Formerly part of the admissions team at Wharton Lauder, INSEAD and Columbia Business School, she’s not only an Accepted consultant but she’s our guest on the podcast. Kara discusses various aspects of the MBA application process, including choosing the right schools, handling common challenges faced by international applicants, and approaching the essays and resume. She also touches on the qualities that management consulting firms look for in MBA recruits and provides advice for MBA re-applicants. Finally, she discusses the use of AI and ChatGPT in the admissions process and the importance of authenticity in application materials.

Show Notes

Our guest today is no stranger to Admissions Straight Talk. She’s been on several times but wore a different hat. It gives me great pleasure to introduce Kara Keenan Sweeney, Accepted consultant. Kara previously served as the Director of Admissions, Marketing and Financial Aid at Lauder Institute at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School and Penn Law School.

Kara has an extensive background in graduate admissions, starting with her master’s in higher education administration from Columbia and including admissions positions at INSEAD, Penn State, and as I mentioned, Wharton’s Lauder Institute. Most recently, she was a senior recruiter for McKinsey & Company.

Kara, welcome to Admissions Straight Talk. [1:24]

Thanks, Linda. It’s great to be with you on this side of the table.

Glad to have you back, and this time as a colleague. Let’s start with something really easy. How did you get into admissions? [1:32]

Yeah, it was a little bit by happenstance, which I think is true for a lot of admissions professionals or higher education folks. I started working at Columbia University at the beginning of my career, and one of my first jobs was in student affairs at the business school, and I was working specifically with Executive MBA students as their… Directing a cohort through the two-year program, so working closely with admissions, actually.

And I started to get a little bit of exposure to admissions and help out with interviewing and things like that. And then, a few years into that role, an admissions job opened up on my team, and I was lucky enough to get it. And the rest is history. That was, I think, 17 years ago, which is crazy to think about it. It’s been that long. But yeah, I started in student affairs and navigated my way to admissions, and it’s been a great experience.

You have a wealth of experience in MBA admissions and a lot of it has been focused in the international business space. What do you think is critical for MBAs interested in international business, and specifically those programs that you’ve worked for? [2:31]

It’s funny as I’m thinking through the question again. So much of business education now is international. The cohorts and the classes are so international. I think Wharton’s 30, 40%; Lauder, of course, is probably 50, 60%. So it’s just such a global pool of students. Back maybe 30, 40 years ago, it was mostly Americans at Wharton or whatever. So it’s changed a lot. Very global by nature. But for students who are looking at international business, it’s looking at it in that global context. It’s looking at it from a big vantage point.

For Americans who are maybe looking to gain some more hands-on experience, maybe going to INSEAD or London Business School, having a “study abroad” experience can be a great way to really get that on-the-ground cultural immersion, language immersion in some cases. For some international students coming from outside of the US, coming to Wharton Lauder or Columbia Business School or any of the US schools is a great way to get that US or North America focus. Getting that on-the-ground experience is really invaluable.

Working at Lauder and at INSEAD, it’s funny, the students are so similar in terms of their profile; of course, the languages and their objectives. They all look at business very much through a global lens. For example, in approaching applications and things of that nature, of course you want to keep that global outlook. Why do you want to apply to an international program? Why are those things important to you? And really, really dive deep into that and expand on why that is, and not just take it for granted that it’s something that the admissions committee or the admissions officer looking at your application would understand.

Yeah. So many great international opportunities. And, of course, Wharton and other schools have so many great exchanges. Even for students who don’t have a language like you need to have at INSEAD or Lauder, there are so many ways you can have an international experience through, really, so many of the business schools.

It’s interesting that you were talking about having a global lens. And what was going through my head as well was, “How do you manifest that global lens?” It would probably be through the motivation to apply to the particular programs that you’re going to as well as your post-MBA goals. Is that correct? [4:49]

Exactly. Yeah, for sure. That’s if not the most pointed question people get on their MBA essays, it will definitely be asked in some form. What are your short-term goals? What are your long-term goals? And really that’s a way… If the international component of a program like Lauder or INSEAD or any of them are important to you, you can weave that in.

“I really want to work in China, and this is important to me for X reason,” or whatever the case may be. Having that global outlook and baking that into your application is definitely important.

What if you want to work in China, for example, but you’ve never been to China? [5:36]

That’s okay too. When I would look at an application from someone, let’s say, who’d been very US-based, maybe somebody who studied a language in college but didn’t have a ton of hands-on experience, this is an opportunity to get that hands-on experience that you’re looking for. And these programs provide that.

Some of the top schools in China, for example. Somebody could spend a year or two there studying. So, it is a great way to get that experience, and you can position your application to say, “Hey, this is how I plan to do it, and it’s through this MBA program and hopefully an internship and maybe cultivating my network in China,” or wherever the case may be. And hope to do that by harnessing the program.

What are some of the best ways to handle the more common challenges faced by international applications? In other words, I’m American by citizenship and I want to study at INSEAD. Or I’m Indian and I want to study in the United States. I’m European, I want to study in the United States. What are the most common challenges that applicants face and how do you deal with them? [6:20]

For some of the programs, there are such specific requirements like for INSEAD or for Lauder you have to pass those language tests, for example. So that’s something… If you’re an applicant and you’re thinking about an international program that has some sort of language component, go on the website. I remember at Lauder, we had language audio clips that you could listen to get an idea if your language is up to snuff. If it isn’t, get a tutor, and work on it. That sort of thing. In some cases, the work that you have to do is very practical to make sure your application meets the bar. In other cases…

And I think maybe as Americans, sometimes we’re guilty of looking at things through a very American/US lens. So if you’re applying to INSEAD or London Business School or whatever the case may be as an American, make sure you’re looking through that global lens, answering their questions at a global vantage point.

What’s great about INSEAD for example, and I’m sure that it’s still the case, is they have no more than 10% from a given country. Knowing that a lot of these programs will be really intentional about global diversity, and so of course, as someone from North America, you can bring a certain outlook, skills, whatever the case may be. And then of course students from another part of the world bring something else, culturally speaking.

It doesn’t mean it’s a disadvantage, but essentially you want to make sure you meet the requirements and that you understand that you’ll be a part of a really international global cohort if you go to one of the schools outside of the US. I would say on the flip side, and maybe not so much as true for Indian applicants, but something I would come across maybe from students from Asia or Latin America… Really, anywhere in the world where someone’s first language is in English. It goes to some extent without saying, but making sure your TOEFL score is strong and that your essays are well written and that they’re grammatically correct.

It sounds so basic, but it’s really important, obviously, to the admissions committee. You can have a 750 GMAT, great scores as an undergraduate student, a great job, but we need to make sure that you can communicate clearly in a well-written way in English. Believe it or not, there are papers in MBA programs. You will have to write papers. If you do a program like Lauder, you’ll have to do a research paper so those things can be important and admissions committee members will pick up on that. So make sure your language, whether it’s English or any other language you need for a program, is really up to snuff. Brush up on it.

You mentioned the importance of the essays a minute ago, and obviously they’re not just important to international applicants, they’re important to all MBA applicants. How do you advise applicants to just approach the MBA application, the essays in particular? [9:09]

It’s like you have a bunch of puzzle pieces that you need to pull together into a beautiful mosaic of what makes you you. And I think you can just say, “Okay, I wrote good essays, I have a good GMAT or GRE score.” You’re checking the boxes, but you really need to pull it all together into a story that tells the story about your professional, academic, personal. You want to have that all woven in so that when someone’s reviewing your application, they’re thinking of you as a whole applicant. They’re getting that overall composition of who you are as a person, what your goals are, what your objectives are, and who makes you you.

That’s what we’re looking to bring in: unique people that will make up a diverse class across professions, personalities, interests, clubs, passions, and whatever the case may be. So really thinking about it from a broad stroke and then maybe narrowing in. When you’re looking at your essays, that’s when you can drill down a little more on your goals or something that makes you unique. Or, for the Wharton essay, what you might add to the community. That’s when you can start to get really specific.

But you still want to make sure that the person reviewing your application has a full picture of who you are overall as opposed to just writing down a list and checking off a box.

The checkbox approach to applications isn’t a terribly effective one. [10:53]

Right.

In your many years of experience at different programs, what were the most common mistakes that you saw in applications? [11:09]

Going back to my earlier point about something as simple as having your essays be grammatically correct, making sure your application tells a story, making sure that… For example, as you’re building your resume and other parts of your application that tell the story about what you do professionally, that it’s clear to someone who doesn’t have an area of expertise in tech or consulting or whatever the case is. So making sure that it’s something that’s clear and transparent. And I think sometimes people could get a little too in the weeds.

I like the idea of resumes really telling the story about your accomplishments as opposed to just spitting out what you do. These are your duties. Some of the things are pretty obvious. And making sure that things are really right. I remember years ago we had an applicant who, whether it was accidental or intentional, I don’t know, they had a couple of extra zeros on the end of that salary. And it just was such a large salary it didn’t totally make sense. And, of course, those things are checked when someone is admitted to a program. They go through a background check to make sure everything’s correct.

We ended up denying the person because of other aspects of their application, but I thought, “I’m sure that was an error,” but it was something that really stuck out. And it made us all raise our eyebrows, and it just didn’t add in his favor. And I think it was just one of those little mistakes that you don’t want to make. So, make sure that you’re obviously telling the truth, being factual. But catching any little errors. Make sure you have folks, whether it’s an admissions consultant or a friend, whatever, take a look at it and make sure that you’re good to go before hitting submit.

Great advice. We’ve focused on your very rich experience in terms of MBA admissions, but you’ve also worked with applicants interested in management consulting, obviously students interested in management consulting, and you were a recruiter for McKinsey. In general terms, what are the management consulting firms looking for in their MBA recruits?

And as an admissions application reader and evaluator, if you saw an applicant coming in saying, “I’m interested in going into management consulting,” and you wanted to test whether that is a realistic goal, what did you expect them to bring to the table? [12:52]

Yeah. Right. Maybe to answer the last one first, I think to some extent it also answers the first question. It’s really aptitude. It doesn’t necessarily mean you came from consulting or you were at another kind of consulting firm and now you want to go to one of the three top consulting firms. What was great about my experience in recruiting for consulting was that I was really impressed by the array and diversity of the profiles of people who were interviewed and hired to work as consultants.

Some of them had been literally research scientists in a lab, I know there was someone hired who had a PhD in nursing. There’s a whole amazing skill set of folks who… Just like an MBA program, I would often tell candidates, in particular candidates at Wharton, so much of what we’ll be looking at is exactly what Wharton looked in your application: who are you as a person? What makes you unique? Where can you add value? Because of course, with consulting, the client work crosses the gamut. Finance, healthcare.

There are so many different ways you can contribute, so don’t feel you need to fit some sort of prototype just as you don’t as an MBA applicant. But the great thing about consulting is you can come in and really have such a variety of backgrounds, variety of expertise. But, of course, having strong aptitude. There are certain skills that they look for; leadership, and empathy. Again, very similar to what an MBA program might look for. There are some consistencies across there.

So, if you made a great Wharton or Harvard or Stanford or whatever school applicant and you were admitted, there’s a pretty good chance you’re in a good spot to be a strong consulting applicant. And that goes again, regardless of what you were doing before your MBA. Because there are so many different ways those profiles can add value to the client work. Essentially, at the end of the day they’re going to say, “How can this person help solve the client’s needs?” With such a variety of client work, such a wide variety of MBAs or graduate students can help solve those problems.

You mentioned aptitude. What is aptitude for becoming a management consultant? You mentioned leadership. Is it communications? Problem-solving skills? [15:30]

For sure. Absolutely. For example, we might have quite a few folks considering consulting who had come from a military background. They hadn’t had a lot of formal business experience, but they had incredible leadership experience. And for example, empathy; they might have a story that they tell. And on my prior role, one of the components of the interview process was having a story that you could tell about an experience where you could really dive deeply into where you could add a specific skill set like empathy.

And what’s great about the hiring process at McKinsey was they would actually pretty much lay it out, I think, just like an MBA program. What are they looking for? You go to their website, go to their careers page and really make sure you review all of that because there’s a lot of helpful information. They’ll tell you, “This is exactly what we’re looking for. This is what the interview process is like.” They’ll say, for example, we are going to ask you to talk for 15 minutes back and forth with a consultant about an opportunity you had to flex your leadership skills.

You can think about that and prepare stories and reflect on your background. And then in the other case, of course, it’s having aptitude as far as problem-solving with cases and having quantitative ability. I think brushing up on your quant skills and making sure those are good to go is really just a practical essential through the process as well.

I never thought of empathy. I’m not opposed to empathy, but I never thought of it as being a requirement. Is that part of good listening? [17:03]

Yeah. It’s not a requirement, but definitely a good thing to have as you work on teams. Of course, so much of the work is team-based work with clients. Yeah. I wasn’t sure what to expect when I pivoted to campus recruiting, but I was pleasantly surprised that it was such a holistic process. Again, very similar to the MBA review process.

Let’s say MBA applicants have their grades and scores if they’re required, they know where they want to apply. How should they go about choosing schools and completing the application? What would be your recommendation? [17:31]

Yeah. This is a great question, and sometimes people just say, “I want to go to one of the top five schools. It doesn’t matter which one.” I think you want to really do your research and find out, “Do I want a small program? Do I want to be part of a large class?” like at Wharton where the world is your oyster. A million different majors and things that you can choose from and a big community to be a part of. Or do you want to be part of a smaller program where you really get to know everybody and you form that relationship or that network that, for some people, is really important? Where do you want to be geographically? Some just really obvious things.

Do you want an international experience? Do you want a one-year program like INSEAD where you’re done in 10 months, you’ve got your MBA and you can hit the ground running in your next job? Or do you want a two-year, full-time experience? You have a nice break in the summer, can do an interesting internship. Really think about the experience. And at the end, which we talked so much about when I was at Wharton Lauder and just in general, is fit.

You know that when you’re applying for jobs, “Is this the cultural fit for me? Is this a place where I can see myself?” So be sure to participate in all of those online info sessions. If you can go to campus, that’s great. If you can tap into your network, talk with students and alumni, do all of that. It’s really worth it to choose your schools wisely, choose your experience and take all the time you need early on in the process versus just say, “Okay, any of these top schools I’ll be thrilled to get into.”

Of course, I’m sure you would be thrilled to get into those, but at the end of the day you want to be at a place where you know you’ll really fit in and be happy.

Do you have a recommended order for approaching the different elements of the application, like the boxes first or the essay first or the resume first? [19:22]

Yeah. I think the first thing is to sign up for those info sessions, attend those introductory reviews, get a sense as to what the schools are looking for, and understand the application process. Sometimes the essays are updated in the summer, but generally you can assume they’ll be somewhat consistent with prior years. Thinking about your short and long-term goals. Part of the… The essays are really things where you can reveal who you really are.

Some of the things might be a little bit easier to knock out, like the GMAT or the GRE. So if there’s some things that you feel, “Hey, I can get this done,” or, “I have two recommenders I have an amazing relationship with, I’m going to get those taken care of.” Different things that you feel will be less time-consuming. Other folks might say, “Hey, I really need six months to prepare for the GMAT,” and that’s where they’re going to put their energy.

It really depends on the person. But doing your research ahead of time, giving yourself plenty of time, and focusing on the areas that you think you need to put in the most work I think makes the most practical sense.

What’s critical in a resume? [20:44]

In a perfect world, at least I’d like to see a one-page resume. But everybody’s different. If you can’t get it into one page, of course an admissions committee or officer will review two pages. But one page is ideal. Having a nice, clean format; having something that’s, as I mentioned earlier, easily understood or digestible by someone who doesn’t have expertise in what you might be an expert in. So making sure that if you show it to a friend who’s a second grade teacher, they can understand even though you’re an investment banker or whatever. They can easily understand, “Okay, this is what you do. This is what you’ve done over the last couple of years.”

If you’ve had interesting clients or projects. And don’t forget to include what makes you, you to the extent that you can on a resume. Obviously not a ton of space, but achievements, and community interests. Were you in a leadership role as an undergraduate student? Do you have a passion for working with children? Whatever the case is. Do you love to run or hike? Because that is such a great way for someone who’s reviewing a lot of things to say, “Oh, that really stood out to me. This person hosts a cooking class every week,” or does whatever that they love.

So, to the extent that you can… Obviously, you have your academics, your professional accomplishments. Be sure to include some aspect of what makes you you. I really love to see that and those are the things I tend to remember.

What advice do you have for MBA re-applicants? [22:04]

Don’t despair is the first tip. I remember every year we would have people reapply and be successful, so definitely reapply but you want to do so intentionally. Make sure that you’ve had some change in your profile, hopefully a positive change, over the last year. Maybe the quant was a weaker area of your application so you’ve retaken the GMAT or GRE. Maybe you’ve taken some quant courses online or that sort of thing to strengthen your quantitative profile.

Maybe on the other hand, you were starting out. Maybe two years out of college and you’ve gained another third year. Maybe you’ve been promoted ahead of your peers. Maybe you’re working on interesting projects or you’ve become a manager. Anything interesting that has evolved in your profile over the last year, you want to call out to the admissions committee, and that will really be the re-applicant essay in most cases. What’s changed in your profile?

So, don’t just submit the same old application. Get new recommenders, new essays. Make sure that it’s fresh and that you can show where your profile has grown over the last year and where you’ve learned, “Okay, this is where I was intentional about working on these one or two or three things that I felt I needed to submit a stronger application.” And guarantee every year there’s a really strong number of successful re-applicants. I remember quite a few when I was at Wharton Lauder, so it’s definitely something you should consider.

And I think it’s great to do it because you can reflect back, “Okay, where did I need to correct?” Work on it, do it, and then hopefully you’re successful.

Sometimes people have the qualifications, they have the skills, they have the aptitude, but they don’t portray it well. [23:43]

Right.

I think sometimes that’s very hard for them to see themselves. We tend to be in love with our own writing and our own words. [23:50]

Yeah, definitely. The way you tell your story is so important.

What do you think about applicant use of AI and ChatGPT? [24:07]

Yeah, this is a whole new world. In the last couple of years since I stepped away briefly from admissions, it’s really evolved. It was much less of a thing just a few years back. So a couple of things; it’s out there, people are going to use it, and I think admissions committee members and officers and folks reading your applications will be aware of that. It’s no secret. And I think people are pretty smart. I think those tools can be a great resource as maybe giving an idea or giving you some template to some extent.

But at the end of the day, it’s a computer voice. It’s not an authentic human voice and it’s not you, and that’s what makes an applicant stand out and makes you special. You want it absolutely to be your voice in the essays and no AI sim can punch that out for you and really cater to you. It’s out there, it’s not going away, and admissions committees and readers will be very mindful of it.

Yeah. I don’t know, Linda, if you’ve had a different experience with it or what your thoughts are, but it’s a whole new experience for me and I’m interested to see how things play out now that I’m back into the admissions world.

I think it is a tool and like any tool, it can be abused or it can be used. If you just give ChatGPT a specific question and your resume, it will write a very poor essay in response. Don’t do it. I was talking to an MBA admissions consultant and former admissions director yesterday, and he told me that he had a client and he could tell it was a ChatGPT-generated essay. And he asked his client, “Did you write this, or is this ChatGPT?” And the guy hemmed and hawed and finally said it was ChatGPT. He says, “Well, I could tell. This looks like a computer-generated essay and there’s not much substance to it.” Using it in that way is abuse and not going to serve an applicant very well. [25:58]

Right. Yeah, absolutely. It’s called artificial for a reason. It doesn’t feel authentic. I think admissions committees are going to be very wise in the use of it. Tread carefully.

When we first started hearing about artificial intelligence, Judy Gruen, who used to work for Accepted, I was talking with her one day and she said, “Why are we talking about all this artificial intelligence? We need some real intelligence down here.” [27:55]

Right.

I think that’s what the application is for and that’s what the admissions committee wants to see. [28:07]

Exactly.

What do you wish I would’ve asked you? We’ve covered a lot of ground here. [28:20]

I would say, what do I love about admissions or what do I love about this kind of work? And I absolutely love working with the applicants and learning their stories. I talked with somebody earlier today; amazing profile, very interesting life story, great goals. And I was so energized just chatting with him and learning about his objectives and how we could perhaps help him. That’s the best thing, is seeing the candidate experience.

Seeing them go from just the investigative stage, research phase of considering an MBA program. Working with them, hopefully getting admission, deciding where they’re a best fit. It’s just great to be part of someone’s journey. And that is life changing in so many ways. My former colleague at Lauder had a board in her room with all the couples that met each other in the program. And marriages are made, babies are born, all kinds of things. And if not a relationship, obviously you have your degree, which is an accomplishment in and of itself.

Hopefully, you will reach your professional and academic goals. But you will also have an amazing experience for the year or two that you’re in the program; new friends, many of whom are from around the world, just a great experience. Playing even just a small part in that is definitely the best part, for sure.

You joined Accepted fairly recently, but wait until you start hearing from clients that they’re admitted. It’s the biggest reward when you’re on this side of the desk. [29:41]

Yeah.

Relevant Links:

• Kara Keenan Sweeney, Consultant Profile and Contact Information
• Mapping Your MBA Application Quiz
• MBA Application Rejection Review and Strategy

Relevant shows:

• How to Get Into HEC Paris, podcast Episode 565
• NYU Abu Dhabi: Top Ranked MBA Program in the Middle East, podcast Episode 549
• How to Get an MBA at Columbia Business School, podcast Episode 528
• Get Into INSEAD, the Business School for the World, podcast Episode 520
• Applying to Wharton Lauder? Do Your Research!, podcast Episode 465

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