Episode #5: Spray Foam Insulation Myths

Building Genius Podcast

Icynene episode 5 interview transcript Introduction Welcome to Building Genius, a podcast from Icynene. Icynene offers a complete portfolio of innovative, high-performance spray foam insulation solutions, which are sold in more than 30 countries around the world. Debunking spray foam insulation myths Do you believe spray foam is more expensive than traditional materials? In this episode of the Building Genius podcast, you'll learn that this is not true when you look at the whole cost of a project. Our guest, Paul Duffy, debunks myths like this, and many more. Paul is VP of Engineering at Icynene, with more than 20 years of building science and engineering experience. He has been an active contributor to code changes in both the United States and Interviewer: There seems to be a bit of scaremongering within the building industry towards consumers about the safety of spray foam insulation and other aspects about spray foam insulation. Let's talk about some of those myths, Paul. Myth number one, spray foam insulation is dangerous. Paul Duffy: I think spray foam is a product that, for the most part, except for the small kits and cans, is a product that has to be installed by a trained individual with sophisticated equipment to maximize its performance. The spray foam that is applied in your home or in your place of business to improve energy performance and overall building efficiency is absolutely safe for the end user. Basically, any discussion about safe application techniques revolves around the applicator for that particular system. Let's be honest about it, we expect trade professionals to take a number of steps to protect themselves when they're working with electricity or if you're spraying paint, you don't want to be breathing in the fine particles of paint. Much in a similar way, we make sure that our installers are not breathing in the mist of spray foam as it's reacting and becoming foam. We make sure that they're properly equipped with protective suits and protective breathing equipment, so that they're breathing fresh air all the time. We take these steps to make sure that they have all the benefits of spray foam with minimal risk in terms of the application. It's really simple in terms of the consumer or the end user to stay away from the building during the installation process and come back after the prescribed amount of time after the installation has been done. We have products, actually, that you can actually go back into the work area, fully occupy it within two hours of actually spraying the job. If you figure how much time it takes for a contractor to set up in the beginning and clean up at the end, probably there's no safety risk or issue with you coming back soon after he's tidied up and left the occupied space. We just look at this as an opportunity to do a good professional job and make sure that nobody is in harm's way when spray foam is applied. Interviewer: Myth number two, spray foam leaves a lingering odor similar to rotting fish. Paul Duffy: This is an interesting one, because spray foam typically is a product that has a number of components that blend together to allow the reaction to take place. Basically, one of the components in the reaction is something called a catalyst. The catalyst does three things. It causes the foam to, first of all, form into a gel, the gel expands and basically sets up and isn't supposed to shrink back. The reaction is actually a fairly complicated one, where at a certain point, you want the material to start to set up and become relatively rigid, but you wouldn't want that to happen before the foam could actually expand, otherwise you don't have a foam, you have a coating. Typically, what we have are these catalysts which cause the reaction to take place in a certain sequence. Icynene, as a manufacturer, is very particular in the catalyst we choose. We're looking for catalysts that don't have severe odors or long-term health effects. We began our process ... In fact, we had began it many, many years ago in terms of the selection of the ingredients that go into our products, specifically to avoid some of these odors that people have complained of. I suspect, what folks have are some catalysts in some spray foams that actually do have that distinct odor. Other folks complain of an odor that might be more like an Ammonia odor. The point is that you can minimize things through the selection of catalysts. The catalyst basically will be something that are there initially, much like a new car smell a little bit, but will dissipate with time. With proper selection of catalysts, you don't have a long-term issue, in fact, we have relatively few folks who even notice the smell of spray foam after it's been applied. Interviewer: Myth number three, Icynene spray foam insulation products contain formaldehyde. Paul Duffy: That's an interesting one, because it used to be that we, as a manufacturer, didn't believe that we had formaldehyde in our products, because we didn't put it in our products. It's not a formulation ingredient and we don't need it or actually want it in any of the ingredients that we put into our product. If you look at it another way, even water contains a little trace of formaldehyde, so it's actually impossible for a manufacturer to say, "Our product absolutely does not contain formaldehyde." What we can say is that our product, when we've done VOC emission test, has been found to be within safe thresholds for formaldehyde in less than a day. I mentioned our low VOC products to be within safe thresholds within 2 hours. It's impossible to say that you have no formaldehyde, but we do not formulate with it. It's not an ingredient that has any reason for being there in terms of controlling the speed of the reaction or anything like that. It's an incidental trace element in some of the raw materials that might be there. We found, when we actually tested and looked for it, it was well within safe guidelines within a very short time period. Interviewer: Myth number four, spray foam is more expensive than other traditional materials. Paul Duffy: I think that that's very definitely true, if you're talking about materials that are insulation only materials. Spray foam is quite unique, in that it's both an insulation and an air impermeable material and because it's air impermeable, it has other attributes. It can be used as part of an air barrier scheme. Our closed-cell spray foam is even vapor permeable, so it can be a part of a water resistive barrier scheme. If you look at these other attributes, building codes now are becoming very, very sophisticated. They're calling not only for minimum insulation levels, but they're also calling for water resistant barriers, a measure of continuous insulation, air barriers. When you tick all of those boxes with one material, it actually turns out that you can be cheaper in using spray foam in key locations as a code compliant alternative to the more conventional ways of resisting moisture ingress or air exfiltration, these sorts of things. It really ticks a lot of boxes and in that respect becomes a more cost-effective overall solution for energy efficiency, durability and other important building features. Interviewer: Myth number five, spray foam insulation will cause or help propagate a fire. Paul Duffy: This is a really interesting one. Spray foam, actually, people think of it as being a combustible material, which is true. However, to be used in building applications, spray foam is put through a variety of code compliant fire tests. The most basic test measures the flame spread and smoke generated by the product. There are ways in which the spray foam that you get for building construction, the way that that is singled out specifically for that use. It's primarily on the basis of flame spread and smoke developed. In addition to that, we've done a number of full size tests of spray foam and a variety of applications. Things like testing it in a crawl space or testing it in a simulated attic or in a wall assembly of a multi-story building. How does fire propagate through the interstitial parts of the wall? What we found is the air barrier attribute of spray foam is actually something that's pretty cool. It's kind of neat when you see that the material actually stays in place such that it provides containment of the fire in some of these assemblies. We find that fire doesn't propagate as readily, notwithstanding the fact that the spray foam is a combustible material. Obviously, if there's a direct flame that's impinging on a combustible material, it will after a period of time, burn. But what happens is because the material doesn't quickly burn away and isn't fully compromised, enough stays there to cause the assembly to be somewhat sealed and contain the fire in controlled flame spread. With proper design details and closures and judicious use of spray foam, you actually end up with safer buildings, ironically enough, and that's what we found. We found instances where fires actually ... We have testimonials where home owners praised the spray foam as actually saving their house from the spread of a fire. It's pretty interesting when you can get a combustible material, but applying it in a smart way can get this kind of performance out of it. Interviewer: Wow, that's really interesting. Myth number six, spray foam insulation is a new kind of material that hasn't been really tested enough. Paul Duffy: That's an interesting one. Icynene spray foam, in particular, has been around for 30 years and really both our open sale and our closed sale products are all primarily Polyurethane-based products. Polyurethanes were first discovered in the 1930s. Typically, Polyurethanes are synonymous with upholstery and the interior finishes in cars. They've been around for a long, long time. The notion that spray foam somehow is some kind of a new innovation that's crept on the scene in the last five years and hasn't been tested enough is absolutely an outright myth. What we've actually found is that over the course of the last 40 years, we've done more and more testing in more and more configurations, walls, full scale commercial buildings, roof assemblies, attic assemblies, crawl space and basement assemblies. Over the course of that testing we have a lot of evidence that suggest that spray foam has not only good fire performance, but excellent moisture performance eliminates a number of the traditional issues that folks have had with insulation, poor air sealing, the poor air sealing is ultimately a cause of air leakage and condensation concealed in wall spaces and attic spaces. At the end of the day, when you've got a product that has these kind of attributes and has been around for 40 years, it's pretty hard to say, "You know, it's not that well tested." I think we have upwards of a half a million installations with our particular brand of spray foam. I think our industry probably would have in the millions of installations out there. There's lots of folks who've used it, lots of folks who have experience with it and lots of installations where it's been proven to perform and perform well over the course of the last 40 years. Interviewer: You've mentioned 40 years. How long has Icynene been around as a company? Paul Duffy: Icynene has been around for the last 30 years, basically incorporated in 1987. Throughout much of that history, we were largely in the market with one major product innovation, our light density spray foam. We really did a full court press on that product, trying to make sure that people were aware of it as a viable option. It really opened the people's eyes, that spray foam could be a cost-effective alternative for air sealing and insulating their homes and businesses, any kind of commercial building for that matter. At the end of the day though, people started looking at spray foam, all types of spray foam as providing unique attributes that could be very, very useful in buildings. Our medium density spray foam is often used below grade as a product that provides insulation and moisture protection on the exterior of foundation walls and also below floor slabs on grade to stop moisture from coming through there. It was found that in going to the market with a spray foam solution, it was helpful to have a number of products to present to builders and designers for very specific applications, where the one light density product alone wouldn't be the appropriate solution. Incidentally, we've got a number of innovations coming as well. Things that will knock the socks off designers in terms of more flexibility to leave spray foam exposed, taking it from the previous notions of being a combustible insulation to lower combustibility, perhaps, to be left exposed in a variety of applications. It's going to be an interesting few years ahead, not only if we come through a lot of innovation, but we've got a lot of innovation on the horizon to roll out over the next few years. Interviewer: It sounds like Icynene invests a lot in R&D and building science. Paul Duffy: Yeah. Typically, that's been the genius of Icynene over the years, is recognizing that these are not just products that you sell in the big box stores, the lumberyards, what have you and wave goodbye to them as they roll out the door around the back of trucks, in people's automobiles. Icynene has pioneered the notion that the installation is everything. Trying to make sure that the products are appropriately used by trained individuals who can really deliver the maximum in terms of energy efficiency with the products that are available. When you combine good products with talented individuals who know their craft, that's a win-win situation. Interviewer: That's great. Thank you for debunking the myths. Paul Duffy: Thanks very much. Thanks for listening. To learn more about Icynene, you can visit our website at http://www.icynene.com/. While at our website, take a minute to subscribe to our “Building Genius Blog.” If you have a specific project in mind, talk to your local Icynene contractor. To send us a comment about the podcast, please email us at [e-mail]. Disclaimer Please note that the views and opinions expressed herein may not necessarily be the views of Icynene. All comments, opinions and views expressed are of a general nature and should not be considered as advice to purchase or to sell mentioned products.