Ep. 36: The Future is Fluid

Career Design Podcast

Episode 36- The Future is Fluid

Lindsay Mustain00:00

I'm Lindsay Mustain and this is the Career Design Podcast made for driven ambitious square pegs and round holes type professionals who see things differently and challenge the status quo. We obliterate obstacles and unlock hidden pathways to overcome and succeed where others have not stagnation feels like death. And we are unwilling to compromise our integrity and settle for being average in any way. We are the backbone of any successful business and those who overlook our potential are doomed to a slow demise. We do work that truly matters aligns with our purpose, and in turn, we make our lasting mark on the world. We are the dreamers, doers, legends, and visionaries who are called to make our most meaningful contribution and love what we do.

Lindsay Mustain00:42

I cannot be more excited about this podcast, I've been trying to book it with you for weeks now, I think and so I had a few challenges like COVID getting in the way and you coming back from a beautiful talk. So I want to introduce you to Don Mamone, who is one of the most beautiful human beings that I know. And we're gonna talk about the future is fluid. So I want to just start here and say, This is not my expertise. However, as somebody who loves you, and wants to support you, I'm gonna say the wrong things. And I'm gonna be your student here. So I want you to just introduce me to the idea like, Who are you today? Like, who are you? And then like, let's walk through what is the future is fluid actually mean?

Don 01:25

100%. So thank you for having me, Lindsay. You know, I'm one of your biggest fans, and I'm super excited to this podcast. Thank you for acknowledging that you don't know everything all the time about specifically this topic. I hold you in such high regard and I know that your audience is going to be voraciously listening to you and by extension me. So thank you for having me here. You know, I am a hospitality veteran or survivor, however, you want to look at it. I'm a photographer, I'm an artist, I'm also an individual that's living happily outside the gender binary. I identify as they/ them. And that is a lifelong journey that I waited 40 years to unearth, unleash, acknowledge and own. And that's where I'm at, at this very moment. And I think that's one of the main reasons why we're here today is to talk a little bit about what it looks like to live outside the gender binary and/or what it's like to be transgender versus cisgender space. And so I'm excited to have a great chat, and inspire and educate and create an implementation in the world, right? To make sure that people start understanding what this is and what it means.

Lindsay Mustain02:35

Okay, I love this so much. And I, when I say I'm a student, I've used the wrong pronouns already here today. And when I say that, it's, it's, you know, Dom is very, very kind about saying, it's not that like, it's not gonna offend me personally, it's that we're working towards progression. And so with that idea, because I didn't know you, and we use different pronouns that that's been actually offered to me on my podcast, and I'm so glad that this is the time that we're doing it because this message is so potent and powerful. So you just got back from Vegas about talking about the same topic, correct?

Don 03:07

Yeah. So it's a really funny anecdote, and I'm going to tell it, so I, I finally acknowledged this about my gender identity. So I'm 45 years old, 45 years young. And I waited 40 years before I told a single individual on the planet about this internal feeling. It was my wife who was the first person I ever told. And I told her about five years ago, and it is something that I knew from childhood just wasn't willing to admit. And as I was going through this leadership program, and I acknowledged it, and I unearthed it, unleashed it, and started to really become comfortable with living truth and a reality that is valid and exists they reached out to this organization, which is the National Association for Event Professionals reached out and said, Hey, you submitted in 2020 to speak, we would love to have you submit again, for 2021, since we had to cancel for COVID. Do you want to speak? And it was literally at the exact moment, I was going through this realization. And I said, I do want to speak but I want to change my topic. Is that okay? Sure. Absolutely. Here's the form, submit your talk. I literally within 45 minutes created the talk that I wanted to give about gender inclusivity and diversity, have the needle what it means and they accepted it, and I gave that talk the first week of August, and it was literally the definition and Lindsay, I know you're spiritual and you believe things happen for a reason and there are no accidents. It literally happened in a container of time, where if it happened at any other time, if it had happened just before, I probably would not have been ready. If it happened just after I might have thought I'm too busy. I've got too much going on. It was literally perfect. And it was the most beautiful moment. It was so much fun.

Lindsay Mustain04:47

Getting to see the pictures from it, I can see I could feel the emotion in those images of you connecting to the audience though. I even have goosebumps right now. Like I'm just so so honored for you to share this journey because it's incredibly personal, but what I think we, you know, I talk a lot about this industry and particularly with, inside the career space, that's what I'm really working in occupational. What I'm really about is like, I'm a part of human resources, but somehow we forgot about the human. And we've just been overworking on treating people like numbers, like numbers on spreadsheets, and how do we almost put them in containers. And then I call them jobs description, like cages, and we forget about the actual humanity of individual people. So I do see like, that's one thing where everything about human resources we put like legal officers, and everything is about risk mitigation from our own people and then I see this other side work still awakening really happening in the world, and in communities where we see DNI like diversity and inclusion. And I always want to say diversity inclusion is not any one thing. Like I think that's a really, really big misnomer. When I talk about diversity, I am talking about diversity in thought, I'm talking about diversity in gender, and talking about diversity in background. I am not looking at some of these, you know, disability status as a number of diversity, diversity looks very different when we look at an individual level. So when we talk about creating like this inclusive culture, and I'm from Seattle, I mean, I am one of the most liberal and embracing cities that is in the world, I'm so very thankful for that. But I also see these really antiquated structures, and we've created like male and feminine. And that's like the only two options for people to exist in organizations. So the duality, which is really all of us has both of these insides of us. And giving a place for people to be safe and to be authentically them at work is a way for them to tap into their true power. So let's talk about like, what gender is? Because I feel like this one, I want to listen to you what it is, what is it isn't? How do we experience it? Tell me about that.

Don 06:44

So, first of all, again, thank you. I mean, genuinely, because I live in a world where I try to help career-driven professionals and entrepreneurs alike, understand and acknowledge that when unique starts with you, right? Why oh, you, you can basically bring your whole and authentic self, your genuine self to everything you do, whether you're a cog in a really wonderful important machine, or whether you're the machine in and of itself. Okay. And so, first thing, right, some undeniable truths, okay, the first thing is, gender identity is real and valid, and all of them should be represented. And when I say all of them, gender identity is as unique as the individual. So there are eight billion people on this planet, an undeniable truth that I want everybody to acknowledge is everybody's gender identity is unique. That means that there are 8 billion gender identities.

Lindsay Mustain07:35

Oh, okay. So we can't put people into two boxes is what you're telling me.

Don 07:39

Not only can we not put them into two boxes, but we can also even put them into a million boxes, because basically, what I'm telling you is each individual is comprised of four things, okay? That makes up their gender. Okay? The four things that make up your gender or your gender identity, right, which is what your mind and your heart tell you about your gender. That's number one. Number two is your gender expression, which is how you take that feeling of gender identity and express it forward. That means the roles that you exist in the way you express yourself in fashion, the way you express yourself in your behavior, the way that you express yourself, presentation, hairstyle, makeup, skincare, all those things. Okay, so that's your gender experts, lipstick, fierce lipstick, 100%, red finish, the lipstick looks so good on you. It's a statement. The third is your anatomical or biological sex assigned at birth, which we can look at it and basically scientific right, there is certainly scientific nature of it. But even that is not two boxes, right? We know that you have an X and a Y chromosome. But we also know that people have male and female parts, secondary sex characteristics. Some people have three sex chromosomes, right? Because of a mutation, right? biological mutation. So that's the third. And finally is your sexual orientation, which is who you're attracted to mentally, physically, emotionally. And one of the common misconceptions is your gender identity is in any way related to your sexual orientation, or your biological sex assigned at birth, or any of those things, each of these four things right, exist in and of itself. But if I had a pretty diagram here, I would show you a Venn diagram where these four circles intersect. And at that very middle part where those four things intersect is the picture of you. And that's why every single person's gender identity is different because you have no idea what their identity, their expression, their sex assigned at birth and their sexual orientation are.

Lindsay Mustain 09:32

Oh my gosh, okay, so this is the clearest that anyone has ever paid to this for me. I've never heard that actually. And so we talked about, there's a lot of things happening in HR, we talk about intersectionality, right? So the embracing of different they're almost different backgrounds of diversity, and so I've never heard it discussed like that. So that is incredibly powerful. Okay. So what we're saying is that anybody can have a multitude of different options and that centerpiece is going to be different than every other person that exists. So there is no way to just categorize people, we have to look at them as an individual people.

Don 10:05

Yeah and we have to open up tolerance and acceptance and inclusivity and diversity, right? Based on how that person identifies, expresses, maybe sex assigned at birth, maybe sexual orientation, right? There's a point at which if someone comes in for an interview, or is an entrepreneur and runs an amazing business, I'll use myself as an example, okay? My four quadrants are becoming increasingly clear every day and I use the words unearth and unleash when I look at gender, because this isn't something that we transition into,right, I totally understand and acknowledge that a common word is a transition, get it totally fine. Typically, though, for someone who is either transgender or sits outside the binary happily as I do, this has been unearthing. I'm not changing, I'm basically finally unearthing and acknowledging and unleashing what I consider to be my already existing gender that I've denied or hidden or struggled with for the better part of four decades. And finally getting there. And that means that I identify as nonbinary, which means there are male and masculine and female and feminine parts of me that I love. My expression is becoming not necessarily androgynous but fluid, which is why I say the future is fluid, right? Some days, I will be crawling under my jeep, and I'll be completely messy and dirty and have my hat on backward and present fairly masculine. Other times, like today, I am here and I am presenting slightly more feminine, my sex assigned at birth was male, I have male sex characteristics, which is just that's my chromosomal makeup. And I'm straight as, like, far as the day is long. My wife and I are happily married. We're not monogamous. I love her desperately and endlessly. And so that center part of my gender is the amalgamation of those four things and nobody else is like me, they may have similar things, but nobody's like me.

Lindsay Mustain 11:58

Yeah, this is so powerful. And this is making me feel a lot better. So I feel people get a little nervous and even be I'm an HR professional, right? And I really, and I'm a huge the human part of the HR piece like I really want to see individual humans, but I always struggle with like, okay, when we move into this, like, how do we, how do we approach it in business, I guess, tell me about like how this matters inside of the industry, business and people.

Don 12:21

So ultimately, I genuinely believe if you bring your most authentic and genuine self, you're literally going to unearth and unleash who you are. And that is directly proportional to the impact you have on the world, your potential is unearthed and unleashed based on you, acknowledging, accepting your authenticity. And what happens is, and let's just go ahead and go a little bit deep for a minute. For me for 40 years, I was doing, I was not being I was doing everything I thought I was supposed to do. Okay, I was raised in a very conventional home, not conservative, we were liberal. My mom was very loving and caring, she would say like, if you're gay, be gay, if you're straight, be straight, marry who you want. I did, I was raised in a conventional home though I had short hair, there were certain things that we have ways in which men and women and masculine-feminine expressed themselves. And you add to that, that in society, there were no positive representations of somebody that felt the way I felt. It just didn't exist. You just didn't see it. And if you did see it, Prince, David Bowie, people like that. It was a cultural icon. It was a musician, a rock star, I wasn't those things. So it didn't align, it didn't make sense for me. And so I lived in a place where I built an invisible prison in which I lived. And it was based on fear and guilt and shame and doubt, and judgment and compartmentalization. I worked in hospitality for 10 years, I had loved everything about it, Lindsay, but I could not have walked into a hotel company with long hair and makeup and said, I would love to be your conference services manager, your director of events, it did not exist, it was not okay at that time. And so, when we talk about companies, Lindsay, we need to get to a place where an entrepreneur, which is where I now, I don't have to concern myself with whether or not I'm going to lose business, be shunned and ostracized, be alienated, not be able to find professional partners. If I'm in a career-driven professional space, I have to not fear if I show up as my true and authentic, professionally driven self, that I'm not gonna be able to get a job because I don't fit into a very narrow-minded box.

Lindsay Mustain 14:30

I'm getting a little emotional listening to you talk because this is like at the core of what I teach people to do is just be who you really are. And I'm gonna say that answer is not static. The answer is not static. Like I like we're always evolving. And I hope you're always up-leveling. And right now, I feel like there's never been a time where you could actually go in like a better time. And I'm not saying it's going to be easy, because I think you could probably say some of those things too. But to be really useful, like when I talk about the things I want to do, I'm talking about I want you to tap in, like, what I really go to is like, Can you do something passionately? Can you do something with purpose, can you do something and pursue that and then make it really profitable for yourself in your business. That's really, really like a powerful statement. Like I don't care about what your qualifications are hear about who your soul is. And we seem to have forgotten that. So I feel like this is like the biggest extension of that is recognizing and it doesn't just apply to gender, it applies to every single breathing person who walks into a building, virtually or in-person like that is the power of this message.

Don 15:32

It is the power of this message. And the concept of the future is fluid. It doesn't say gender is fluid, it doesn't say the future of gender is fluid, when I talk about the future is fluid. I literally mean to your point of like, it's not static. people's identities evolve every day, not just their gender identity, right. That's the purpose of today's talk is to talk a little bit about that reality for me. But everybody's identity is fluid and changing based on who they are, what walk of life they're in, whether they're a parent or not a parent, whether they're married or divorced. And I think what happens is when we go through an identity shift, right, and identity conflict, or at worst, I think identity crisis, it's because something has changed in our life, that we are concerned about what that will mean. And as an example, I had a wedding planner that I would talk to that is incredibly talented, that hid from the world that she was going to have to go through a divorce. Now, despite their best efforts, they could not reconcile and it was time to get divorced. She was mortified that she was a wedding planner who's getting divorced, she was so concerned that nobody was going to want to hire a divorced wedding planner. And my immediate thought was, I get it, I don't have the answer to this, I get it. But we need to get you past this. Because if this is a crutch that you hold on to or something you feel like you have to hide, every time you talk to somebody, you are literally going to bury, right, that potential, and it's time to unearth and unleash it, right. And so the shift was, she was an unbelievable co-parent, they had two children, those children were unbelievably supported and loved by both parents, they were able to create a life in which they co-parenting and got along just great. Like that's something to be celebrated, not hidden. So we really need to find the things about our identity that make us unique, own them, claim them, and then be able to go out into the world and have that impact.

Lindsay Mustain 17:25

I love that. And when we feel like we have to hide it, I have a client that just began with me, and came from a very, very masculine environment, I'm gonna say that's in general, what we are, we don't spend a lot of time in letting people like if we think about the masculine, the masculine, this is I'm going to define it, what I see is really the doing like it's the action, right? The feminine is like the nurturing the embodying, and the beam, right. And together, like Yin and Yang, you guys need both sets of hormones, like you don't have just like every man has estrogen, and every woman has testosterone. And actually, I was reading something from a doctor, I talked about how some men have more estrogen than women. So like, if we were to base it, there is complete fluidity. That's a big word for me to say there in this process. And so what we've been conditioned to believe, is very different. And so the environment has been where he was incredibly spiritual, and you would never know it and talking to him because he had been so trained to be so masculine and to be so right. And to be, everything is about action. And to be completely like straight face, you would never know that there's emotion, and what we're like, I think Renee Brown has done a really big gift for the world and really trying to embrace both vulnerability and authenticity about who we are but it's even deeper. Like, I feel like you're taking that to a whole other level. And I love that. This is the first time by the way, cuz I'm talking about the connections that I'm making here, that you were talking about. It's not that you're not the futurist fluid. It's not about gender, which is what I really thought we're gonna be talking about today. But that every person so like, what am I going to hear is intersectionality diversity and inclusion, you know, whatever you want to call this container, which is just fucking seeing people for being people, in my opinion, like, recognizing that we have no boxes. If there are, you know, a billion people on the planet, there are no boxes that we can all fit in and we would stop categorizing people. How do we make this culture? Like how do we create this culture, where people can show up as their most authentic selves where we can be inclusive? Where do we stop categorizing people, tell me how do we do that? Like, what can you tell my audience here? But how do we do that? And how do we show up as a company to like a company because I feel like that's gonna be something you're gonna do in the future is really advising companies? But how do visuals become this advocate for themselves and stand in their own power?

Don 19:39

So the hardest thing is, our influences and experiences teach us who to be how to be what we think is going to happen, and the stories we tell ourselves are the ways in which we build that invisible prison. So the best thing each individual can do, whether it be their gender identity or any other identity is they basically need to break down walls. That's what I've done over the last four months, I have basically taken brick by brick, and I've removed the invisible prison in which I lived. And those bricks were fear, guilt, shame, doubt, like I said, compartmentalization. Right. Let's start at the very center of my bullseye and we'll work our way out. And I want to tell a really raw and emotional story because what it does is it encourages people to feel compassion and empathy. And it, it creates one of two things, they walk away, and they go, Oh, my God, I had no idea or somebody out there is gonna listen to the story and say, Oh, my God, just like me, or both, okay. So when I decided to tell my wife, it's because I had a 10-month-old baby girl and when that baby girl was born, I looked at her and I said, I'm gonna love you unconditionally, no matter what you can be married, do whatever job doesn't matter, I will love you unconditionally and over the course of those 10 months, I started looking at myself in the mirror and for most of my life, I either sort of denied this feeling and then after a while, I'm like, I can't deny it because it's still here. And I'm like, 35,40, 45, whatever it was, so I just started hiding it and I was like, well, whatever, it's just in there. And I'll just ignore it. Well, once I had a baby girl, and I have marriage and a wife that loved me unconditionally, and that I loved unconditionally and we shared that unconditional love for a daughter, I looked at myself in the mirror, and I went, Okay, so you've gone from denying it, to hiding it to now basically being a hypocrite about it, which makes you a liar, you're just a liar. And I couldn't look at myself in the mirror day after day and feel like, okay, you're a liar and so I decided to tell my wife, and I didn't even know what to tell her. At the time, I was like, I've got this feeling inside of me. I'm not masculine. I've never been toxically masculine, you know that. But there's literally like, part of me, that's a woman or part of the time, there's a part of me, that's a woman, I don't know how to explain it, I just am. And she's like, okay, we're gonna figure this out together and over the course of four years, until I finally had the courage to talk about it in public, my wife consistently looked at me and was like, we're gonna stop together, and you're my person, I will love you forever. That's it. So that process was an ability for me to basically take brick by brick, and basically destroy these walls of this invisible prison in which I lived and what it allowed me to create was new stories. So the story of I knew my wife would love and support encouraged me and be unconditionally loving. But she might have said, I can't go on this journey with you. I just can't, like, this isn't what I signed up for and she would have every right to say that, and I wouldn't be able to hold that against her. And so that story got taken out of my wall, because she looked at me and said, You're my person, I'll love you forever and we're in this together. And then the, I can't tell my mom about this, she'll never understand it. Okay, I get to get rid of that, because I talked to my mom about it and I can't present myself as my authentic self, because people won't hire me anymore, or people won't want to hire the non-binary photographer, because it will. Okay, I got to do that. Because as I present, I have more people saying, This is amazing. I'm so glad you are who you are. And it makes me more inclined to partner with you to hire you to support you, including a super fun anecdote, hired by recently by an unbelievable production company that I love. They're unbelievable they hired me not necessarily knowing that I had gone through this awakening, I showed up. And for this product launch, they had brought in a troupe of ballerinas and models and fashion icons from New York City, to include a non-binary model to show the intersection of like art and commerce. And as I was there, I just immediately was like, This is the world that we need to create, that it was important to that company to include all walks of life. And I was able to then use photos that I took of these individuals in my presentation in Las Vegas, like I said, everything happens for a reason where I showed this is what gender looks like gender is, whatever the person is. And so first thing you can do as an individual, looking outward, destroys those walls. Okay, and then next, if you want, we can talk about I think what other people that are kind of outside of prison can do to help.

Lindsay Mustain24:12

I would I think that that is the most powerful thing. And I think I'm gonna be honest, I felt a little intimidated when I looked at your story because I thought how do I do this, right that doesn't offend somebody and that I absolutely love and care about this person. And I want to be supportive, but I don't even know the right thing to say. So how can I How can I do it in a way where I feel like people will be like, I'll give you an example. After my brother was murdered. A lot of people avoided me. They just didn't know what to say to me and they were intimidated, and they were sure they're gonna say the wrong thing and I didn't know how I would feel and so I'm always like, Listen, I have zero clues. I don't read through this either. So I was like, the biggest thing was just being there. It didn't matter like coming with really unconditional love. So I don't know if that's true for you. But I would love to hear how can somebody support this culture how as an advocate for an individual that you know,

Don 24:57

I'm so so sorry about that and I know that people probably say it to you all the time. And you're like, Okay, I get it. My sister is one of my best friends in the world. And so you live my worst nightmare. And I want to acknowledge that. This is also a conversation about identity. I know, it doesn't seem like it. But you went from one identity to another abruptly and, unfortunately. And so what we can do for people that are going through an identity conflict, identity shift, and identity adaptation, is do exactly what you just said, is be there, and love them the way that they need to be loved, at that moment, unconditionally, and so you and I share, again, very different scenario, but I literally would want people to look at me and be there for me, whether it be physically, emotionally, psychologically, whatever. And essentially, say exactly what you're saying, Lindsay, like, I don't know, and I don't get it. But I want you to know that I'm here. And I love you unconditionally, and I'll support you. So tell me, if there's anything that I can do to do that. Now, you'll hear a lot of people use words like microaggressions and it's not my responsibility to educate you. I do agree that if you care about someone, and you want to love them, and support them through a transition through whatever, a difficult time, and awakening any transition in their life, you can do a little due diligence, that won't be wasted, right. So for example, right, doing research on gender identity, listening to a podcast on gender identity, doing research on someone who's lost someone that's close to them, trauma, grief, like we can educate ourselves a little bit so that the burden of responsibility isn't on the person, right to do the educating at the same time, if you come to me, and there's a very important word here, Lindsay, and I'm sure you know it, if you come to me with the right intention, I'm going to know it. I'm going to see it, I'm going to feel it and so when people are like, you know, he, they Oh, I'm so sorry. And they make they get all flustered. But I'm like, I get it. It's cool. It's something that we've been like, you've called me here for the last 44 years, I don't expect you to get it overnight, right? Just be like, I meant they, and let's move on. Right? It is there are ways in which we can support each other. Now, the other thing I really want for people to understand is, if you are cis-gendered, right, which for those of you that don't know, because it's not a very common word cis-gendered is basically anybody who's not transgender or non-binary or falls under that umbrella. So your gender assigned at birth, and your gender identity align. Cisgendered is what we call you, right? What's what the scientific word is for it. If you're that person, finding ways to show that you're a safe space, and that you believe in that undeniable truth, that every gender identity is valid and to be respected. Any way in which you can do that, please do that. And what that includes is, if you're on Instagram, add your pronouns, even if they seem obvious, right? If your gender identity, Lindsay is perfectly aligned at birth with what your gender identity is, as an adult, that makes you probably put your her in that because what that means is when I look you up, when I start to interact with you, I'm like, Okay, cool. This person agrees with my undeniable truth that gender identity matters, as opposed to somebody who's like, Well, no, I don't, I don't agree with that your snowflake, it's your guy, your girl. And then I know that I can just behave differently.

Lindsay Mustain28:25

Yes, because that's the thing people want to feel safe. Like, that's a core need that we need to have is feel safe. But also, I want to go back to one of the most core human needs that we have. And something that's really, really missing in all core. Corporate America is love and connection. It's one of the biggest core needs that we have as human beings. And so when we, when we, when we neglect people as humans, they don't feel connected to their environment. And when you ignore that part of somebody and I have come from square as I've evolved, if I become the person that I really was meant to be, as my experiences have shaped me, and my identity has shifted, you know, those things have been denied by people who I was born to even and the people who get to truly see me and love me now, like, that is how we feel like we matter in the world. And when we look at some of the epidemics around, you know, people who had a suicide in particular, and people who have been ostracized for their lives, it's because we don't show up and just love them. So like I always say, my highest value is love and it's a very weird thing inside of a world of corporate. I'm like, I am just going to love you exactly as you show up for me. And that doesn't mean that I have the answer. In fact, like I want to be students and what to learn, but just show up and love people and if you do that, if you come with this heart approach, I mean, that is the real true definition of like love and connection are you just show up and we just embrace people exactly as they are, you know whether or not you think they are, you know, right or wrong. Like just love it. Somebody like judgment was a big part of my thing I had to let go and how other people feel about me has no definition of who I really am.

Don 30:08

So you have, you've undergone a very tumultuous journey. And you're very comfortable and confident, right inside your container. Now, I have to tell you, first of all, I love everything about what you just said, I think love is by far and away one of the most powerful emotions. And I believe that in this world, even though there's a lot of hate, and a lot of ignorance and a lot of aggression, that there's far more love. I just I genuinely believe that. However, I will tell you that based on what you just said, one of the things that we all need to do is sit still in a quiet room for a moment and close our eyes, and ask ourselves how, and whether or not we truly love ourselves the way in which we should, because I'll tell you, that's literally the story of my 40 years as I was fundamentally incapable of looking in the mirror and loving myself, the way that I loved my daughter. And that, for me, was was literally the linchpin, it was literally the time at which I said, you can't love yourself in the same way you love your daughter, and then expect your daughter to go into the world and love herself the way that you love her, right? So I need everybody to do that. Because that's where we oftentimes get into problems. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm 100% on board with you, that other people look at us and judge us and try to compartmentalize us and therefore aren't loving us the way they need to love us. But ultimately, first, we got to look inward. And I will tell you in the last four months of my life, and I love telling this story because it was one of those moments where like, how do I get my unusually large foot out of my mouth right now I looked at my wife. And I was finishing up this leadership program, I had just finally unearthed, unleashed, acknowledged, and owned the fact that my gender identity didn't align and that I was going to present as non-binary and fluid and love everything about life. I was getting ready to do this talk in Vegas like everything was firing, and I was like, Oh my God, I've never been happier. Wait a minute, I married I had a kid like That's not fair. But what I acknowledged was in that moment, I literally sat still, and was watching all these things swirl around me and how they were coming together in unconditional love for myself. And I said I've never been happier with myself and how I feel about myself. That was ultimately it was literally a free pass. It was a ticket. It was a ticket to freedom to happiness, that doesn't mean that there's some fear. That doesn't mean there's not intimidation that's not, oh, gosh, what about, but it was literally a feeling of freedom that I had never ever felt in 44 years on this planet. And I want everybody to have that.

Lindsay Mustain 32:56

And I think you're completely right. In order to love people really fully, you have to start by loving yourself. And that is one of the biggest journeys that we can take. And it's a process. It's still my process. Because something that I do when people look at me, and they see the transformation that I've made this last year, what I did is I started to fall in love with myself. And I stopped denying bullshit that I had actually repressed and truth that I had embraced because I was worried about other people judging me and I just decided to be me. And that's not perfect, not even close. But it is completely authentic and exactly who I was meant to be.

Don 33:27

And we'll find ways to love ourselves in spite of things because of things. We develop a new fit. Like, I just love the fact that life isn't static like just isn't static. It's 100% fluid. And so are each and every single one of us on the level, all the work that you're doing to help people in their professional and personal journeys. It's amazing.

Lindsay Mustain33:48

Well, thank you so much for being here. So if somebody wants to reach out to you, because I feel like you can be here to talk about this, and help enlighten people and shed journey if they want to follow you if they want you to talk how can they contact you?

Don 33:58

I am like the easiest person to find on the planet. You can go on every social media site out there and I'm at [e-mail]. My wife and I are on Facebook, we have a website for our photography and so I'm a relationship marketer at heart. It says it right behind me and you and I know it's people first and profit. Literally, a person just needs to send me a message and we'll connect and I'll have a chat with them.

Lindsay Mustain34:22

I love that. Thank you so much for being here.

Don 34:24

It's my pleasure.