The Value in Having Your Work Read with Author M.C. Beeler | Episode 1

Cause of Craft: Why We Create

In this premiere episode, author M.C. Beeler joins the podcast to discuss what it’s like to dedicate nine years to a project, the benefits of self-publishing, and why it feels so good to have someone read your work. Timestamps and full transcript included below.

Links:

M.C. Beeler’s Website: www.margaretcbeeler.com

M.C. Beeler’s Instagram: @margaretcbeeler

Sacred: Eslura’s Calling: Amazon | Barnes & Noble | Signed Copies

The Heart of the Kella Short Story: Amazon

FREE* copy of The Heart of the Kella via M.C. Beeler's Newsletter Subscription

Other works mentioned:

The Hero With A Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell: Amazon | Barnes & Noble

Visit www.causeofcraft.com

Follow Jon on Instagram (@jontilton) and follow the show (@causeofcraft).

Topics Covered with Timestamps:

Intro

Working on a Project for 9 Years

Getting Encouragement on Early Drafts

Ben 10 Inspriation

Scenes That Survived Every Draft

The Stories Within Us and The Hero’s Journey

Discovery Writing

Planting Seeds for the Sequels

Connecting a Short Story to Your Novel

Channeling Emotions into Writing

Choosing Self-Publishing

Collaborating with Other Artists

Deciding to Publish

The Value in Having Someone Read Your Book

Where to find M.C. Beeler’s Books

Outro

About M.C. Beeler:

Raised in northern Indiana, Beeler lives in a small city just close enough to be considered part of the Chicago-land area. A student at Marquette University, she is studying business with a concentration in Marketing and Entrepreneurship in hopes to use her skills to not only help herself, but other authors pursue their writing careers.

On the off chance that she isn’t stationed at her writing desk, she can be found glued to whatever Nintendo console she can get her hands on working to sustain her self-proclaimed title of “Pokémon Master.” You might also find her snuggling with her Goldendoodle or hitting the slopes during the winter season (aka her favorite season) either snowboarding or skiing.

Episode transcript: (May contain some errors due to automated AI transcription):

Jon: Welcome to Cause of Craft, I'm your host Jon Tilton. Why do we create? Where do our ideas come from? What does our craft say about us? These are the ideas we explore here on the show, and this week I'm joined by M.C. Beeler, author of Sacred to discuss what it's like to spend nine years on a project, the benefits of self publishing, and why it feels so good to have someone else read your work. Welcome Maggie.

Maggie: Thank you so much for having me.

Jon: Yeah, thanks for coming on. I'm super excited. You must be excited because you have a book out. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Maggie: Yeah, so I'm releasing my first book, next week, it's actually a week from today and today is the recording date so very exciting, i It doesn't feel real quite yet, but I'm sure in a week it will feel real to have a book out I've been, you know, working on it for nine years. So it's finally going to be out there and it's just very exciting.

Jon: Yeah, nine years, that's not like a short amount of time that's a big chunk of your life there. What made you first decide you wanted to write. And this might be a different part of the answer but what kept you working on it for such a long time to see it through to this point.

Maggie: Yeah, so to the question of what made me want to write. Well I feel like, obviously I have the cliche answer that I've always been into writing, but it's actually kind of a funny story so I was on vacation in Florida, and I was 12 So I was kind of, you know, an annoying like preteen whatever, and I was really bored and I kept nagging, my mom about like my boredom, and I wanted some sort of solution so she bought me a notebook and told me, she's like you're creative sit down and write and I was like okay, so I started writing, and at the time I was very into the show, Ben 10, I don't know if you know that show. It was a pretty popular show at the time, and I was very into it so my first draft was to be quite honest, of Ben 10 fan fiction. And it was just very entertaining to write that, and what kept me going over the years is, I think, I sort of realized as I was writing, you know, I shared bits and pieces of what I wrote with my parents and it was very exciting to share something, and hear feedback so I think that sort of feeling really carried me through it is the feeling of like getting some sort of confirmation that what you're doing is like good and worth it and like worthwhile. So I really wanted to like see this project through, though. Over the years, I mean it took me nine years to finish this thing so I wasn't consistently working on it, it was more of like in the back of my head like oh I have this, this book and I kind of want to publish it, but I don't really want to like work on it because it's like a lot of work and I would like, work on it for like a week at a time I like write for like a week straight in, and then I'd put it away for like a month, and then I'd like pull it back out and like, type a couple words and put it away for a while, and it was just this whole like cycle of like working on it and then not working on it and then at a certain point I think I was like, 18, or 17 I was like, I really want to publish this thing, and I want to take the steps to learn how to like publish a book, and I learned and I took the steps, and I finally finished and now it's gonna be out in a week. That answers the question I kind of go long winded there.

Jon: No, it definitely does and I think you answered both parts of it really well in the same kind of the same answer did cover both things and so that's really interesting, you know, both how you got started led into why you kept going. I was, it struck me when you talked about how you put it away and came back to it. Did you find… Have you been able to look back on the times that you were taking it back out to work on it and like what was… was anything particular prompting that or was it more of, oh, I have some extra time I'm going to pull it back out I'm bored, I'm going to pull it back out, or it was it something else that drove you to come back to your manuscript?

Maggie: You know, quite honestly, I don't know I want to say like, I mean, no to get all spiritual on ya, I don't know I feel like I just had something in the back of my head that was like you gotta like do this like this is like something that's really important and will be really important to you and it obviously is it's like kind of my life now, but I don't know I just like, I'd be like sitting around in my room I've like any kind of want to like just work on this thing because like I have it, and like I had shared it with a couple people at the time who told me that it was good and obviously they were lying because it was a first draft and it was really really bad, but their encouragement, kind of like in the back of my head, you know, push me to keep going. And I think that's really important for like people who are like just starting off in the creative industry to really have that like to, like, the confirmation that like what they're doing is worthwhile and like will be worthwhile and I think that's really what like carried me through it, the entire ways that like I had people who were like telling me that what I was doing is worthwhile and what I was doing was good, and that in the back of my head was like, Oh, I'd like me to keep doing this because it's good and it's worthwhile.

Jon: I think anyone who spends that amount of time working on a project like there's something about them that I meant to do this and I think it's funny you mentioned about oh well my friends were lying because it was a first draft. You know, I wouldn't be so sure about that, you know, I've had terrible first drafts, I think, I think most first just are probably terrible for everyone, a lot of house season they are, but there's something that there's something there I think if you have if you're meant to be doing it, and you have some talent, even if you don't know how to bring that talent out of yourself yet. I think people can look at elements of it and you know it requires a friend or family member or someone who has a good eye for seeing incensing what's there behind kind of the mess, and know that there oh there's some gold in here that I see, even though it's not all uncovered yet so I think kind of I'm tempted to say the same thing or it's like oh, people are being disingenuous about what they say about some of my early writing. When I talked to them specifically about what they do like about it and I understand the elements that are working, and then I noticed oh they're not saying this, or oh I have a mentor who points this piece out of my writing that I can improve. Right, I think it's all that process of going into something chipping away at it until you really have a refined product that, that speaks to people.

Maggie: Mm hmm. Yeah I mean I agree with that because it's definitely they definitely weren't like looking at like my grammar or my like dialogue or whatever they were more probably looking at like the imagination and the ability to like come up with something like that just like randomly not like, you know the actual story structure which is like, I think, really good like to just encourage people at a young age, you know, just not criticizing everything because it can like ruin. You know, if I had showed my parents or my mentor I did have like a little non official mentor but he was like a family friend that was in the publishing business, and I would talk to him a lot about writing. If I had showed them my draft, and they said, “this sucks,” I would probably never have continued, so it's just like really important how you go about talking to young creatives, I think personally.

Jon: What is it about Ben 10, that spoke to you as a kid? I know the show but I haven't seen it.

Maggie: Yeah, so I just like well I was actually like so obsessed with it at the time I was like just I download it all I like a Kindle Fire at that age, and I just like downloaded all the episodes onto my Kindle Fire and my mom thought that I was like reading but I was really just like watching back then. And, well, I took the idea of the two cousins, and their grandpa and a trailer going around on these like cool quests and like having all these magical powers which like you can kind of see it seeping into my novel now a little bit with like the the powers and stuff but not as much. I mean, my like I literally had it down to the T. Like it was a boy, main character and his like redheaded cousin. So it was like very much the same, but yeah over the years it changed a lot, obviously, and I think it's just like, how much I worked on it and how much I was changing as a person throughout those years because I mean 12 to 21 is like a really like big age range, and like you go through a lot of change then so I think my story was like growing and changing as I grew and changed, and yeah I just like really did a lot of like, I don't know like editing with the plot, and I really don't even know how to like, explain how it changed it just kind of happened like ruin. Look at parts and be like oh, this needs to be something else, and I think it also ties in to me learning what actual story structure is.

Jon: So that's one of the questions I actually had listed down here to ask you was just, again, branching off that nine year aspect of this project for you. Like, I think about, you know, I'm, I'm a little bit older than you are, and my first book took about three years to do it on and off, and I think about how much I've changed in that time. And this is an age range that I've done this as a short amount of time, and it's an age range where you don't really change as much as you know the ages from 12 to 21 Right? So, it just blew my mind when you first told me that you had worked on this project for nine years, I was just like, okay, how many times is this rewritten? Are there any scenes, I guess, that's another question, maybe without giving anything too much away that you don't want to… but is there a scene that really stayed with the book the entire time that that you can point to as a scene that stayed in the draft the entire time?

Maggie: So, yeah, um, about the drafts first. I literally I think I counted how many drafts I have I have about like 14 drafts of this novel, not including like the written ones, but throughout all those drafts. There is one scene that has stayed very consistent throughout them all. And I don't think it's much of a spoiler because it happens within like the first four chapters, and it's kind of in the blurb to I mean obviously she goes into another world. So there's a scene where she goes into a cave, and I won't really expand much, but she goes into a cave, and that has been in pretty much every draft not the first draft because the first draft was like literal bedtime fan fiction, just like going in an RV, whatever. But the cave thing has been consistent through it all and if you've read the book you'll know what I'm talking about. It also characters there's a couple of characters who have stayed consistent I have a character in my novel who's basically a giant talking lizard, and he's been in every single draft, thus far, and my side character Well she's not a side character really anymore. She was a side character, but my main character Reagan has been in every draft as well. And there's one more I believe I have a giant talking dog as well I'm kind of very into the talking animals, named long pause, who's also been in every draft so those three have survived the nine years of revision.

Jon: It’s really interesting when you mentioned those things because those elements are directly. I've been really into learning more about Karl Yune, and I've been reading here with 1000 faces by Joseph Campbell, and the lizard person, and the going into a cave like those are big, like within story elements or at least you know there's obviously debate about these sorts of things but those two elements are often things that come up in stories belly, or the cave, being kind of the belly of the whale element. So it's interesting that that's there and to be in the fourth chapter, that's exactly where it goes, you know, in the hero's journey so I'm guessing you're not reading Joseph Campbell when you're 12 years old. So I think it's, it's always so fascinating to me how much these things do actually show up in people's work, and there's just something about being human that like is leanness to this. And there's also the lizard people that's, that's something that shows up a lot in fiction, as well. And so it's interesting that those two things have stayed consistent. Yes, if their connection to those, but of course you know they're coming out and, and I think that's why it's so fascinating to me these sorts of things because how it shows up in different people's work is completely different and so you find out all these things about a person based on how they, how they approach these kind of deep seated, things that are somewhere in our brains and so it's just fascinating to me. I've always been interested in how that works and, and how it comes out in different people's stories.

Maggie: Yeah, well I thought about that too because I heard, I saw a little post a while ago that pretty much everyone is writing, Almost the same story I mean because we use the hero's journey template and there's a ton of other like templates but it's really how you make that story your own like using all these because I mean, someone came up with dragons, a while ago and then everyone uses them now in their own way, in their own novel and it's just like the different ways that you use things that make it unique to like your story.

Jon: Yeah, and it might not even be a literal Dragon, it might be yeah I mean that that resembles it or that even handset something like, I'm writing something now, and there's a dragon element to it but it's, it's not a dragon at all it's a person but the fact they're guarding something that's the dragon element, you know, the classic like the hobbit with the dragon guarding the gold. Yeah, there's still that element in it, and it's just, it's just so fascinating to me. So it's cool, it's cool to hear a little bit about how that's showing up in your writing.

Maggie: Yeah.

Jon: Those ideas are actually kind of what brought me to the idea of the show in general, because I started thinking well why am I writing like what I'm writing like why is this element in the story because I don't know if you have the same experience but a lot of times when I write, you know, there's, there's a lot of intentionality behind it but then all of a sudden something will come in, that just pops onto the page and pops into the scene and I just can't control or explain it, and it's, it's, I kind of have to just explore it, that's where I became kind of fascinated with these concepts, and trying to figure out why is it that that happens, but also why is the way that I approach it different than everyone else, you know, that sort of thing.

Maggie: Yeah, as you mentioned something about the ideas just kind of popping into your head in that kind of brought a thought to my mind because I mean, when, when people ask me how I've come up with like these ideas I'm like, I don't know how to like explain it because it's kind of like they just appear in your mind, you know, It's like there's like another person in there, kind of like whispering these ideas and you're just like, okay, then you write them down, you're like I don't know how I got this.

Jon: Yeah, it's, it's that and that's probably the closest analogy because it's definitely at least for me, it's not like a literal person whispering in my ear. Yeah. but it's like, but I can't explain it because it's like okay I'm locked in I'm writing. And then I have a plan for the scene, and then all of a sudden by the end of the scene it's like well that's not what I planned for and I'm a big planner I like to be a big planner in life. Yeah, I think actually writing has taught me that. Well, it's maybe not the most important thing to stick to your plan 100% And let let what happens happen and respond to it, like, going in with a plan is good, but responding to what's real, I think is, is kind of the key to it.

Maggie: And I've seen, I've actually heard. I mean I've read a lot about other authors in their processes and I've read a bit about George RR Martin, the author of Game of Thrones he writes the book. And then he doesn't plan, like he writes one book, And it's, you know, he wouldn't have planned out the series before, and he'll go through the book and see kind of like what seeds he's sowed and see what those seeds can like grow into like work with what you have. But then, for me, I don't I haven't really outlined a story that I've written before I don't know like what you do but I you know I write as much as I can. And then I'll like look back at what I've read and kind of like George Martin, and kind of see like what I have and like where it can go from there. And then I'll like kind of like workout a little bit of an outline based off, like what I've gotten like what I can work with and stuff like that but I kind of like to just sit down and write as much as I can without planning because I feel like, you know, like you said, the more planning you do the more it's like restrictive and it's better to just kind of like, let yourself. Write and see what happens.

Jon: That makes me want to ask you this question Stop me if I'm not allowed to ask about the sequels but, and that this is part of a trilogy is that right?

Maggie: Yeah, so it's I'm, I mean, if it's two books it's two bucks if it's two bucks, three bucks, if it's four bucks, I don't want it to be more two bucks. Yeah right. I mean I don't I really don't want it to be more than three I feel like three is like a nice sweet spot for this series, but if I can wrap it up in the second one I would, or, you know, just as long as it needs to be I'm not really, I don't have like a restrictive like guideline or anything I just am going to write until the story is done, if that makes sense.

Jon: So you right now have kind of a direction you want to start in with book two or is that going to be like I guess how much in for people who aren't writers, there's kind of this mentality of, are you a pantser or planner and I think most people are probably a mix of both. It sounds like that's kind of where we're both that.

Maggie: Yeah.

Jon: But I guess when you start the project I think there's, there are definitely like two camps of like I started with all my plans and then it got a little bit changed where I started with no plans and then had to outline later.

Maggie: Yeah.

Jon: What's your approach.

Maggie: So, I have a couple chapters thought out for the book I have like a little folder of ideas that I've been stashing stuff in for the second book that you know, like I said, so I've put stuff in the first book that I'm like oh this is totally gonna like grow into this and the next book. So I'd have like those chapters thought out I guess you could say, and I do have the first chapter of the next book kind of renowned I like to do for my books, I like to start the book off like kind of in the villains perspective, almost. So if you've read my first book, it starts off with the villains, and I do like that because it kind of gives you like a little bit of an insight into like what's going to happen throughout the plot. So I do have that first chapter thought out for my next book and I'm really excited about it, but I haven't actually like gone in and like written it yet. I just have like, that's cool, you know, bullet points is like this is gonna happen this is gonna happen this character is gonna say this and this and this. So like I have it like planned out, but it's not like in it's, it's not written yet.

Jon: Yeah, so you have like a goal you have your aim in mind. Yeah, you're, you're complete, you know how to approach it yet isn't there yet. Yeah right. I think that's cool that's a, that's a cool thing.

Maggie: Mm hmm. And then also it's the same with the ending I know exactly how Book Two is going to end as well.

Jon: And another cool thing about you is you have a short story, then yeah, there's two ways to get it, you can go on Amazon or Barnes and Noble any of these places and pay the 99 cents or if you subscribe to Maggie's email newsletter, you can get it for free and it's a fantastic short story. Thank you so it uses characters that are in the book in sacred Yeah, did you find that you had more to tell about those characters or did you kind of go hunting for something you could do a short story, like how did the short story come about.

Maggie: Yeah, so I was a part of this Facebook group, and they were kind of nailing it in my head that I needed to have this like newsletter. I was like alright, I'll make this newsletter so I made the newsletter, and they're like, you should have a newsletter magnet to kind of like draw people into your newsletter and I was like okay, so I had that thought in the back of my head but I wasn't like actually planning to write one because I was like, I don't know like how, you know, whatever, how big, I'll make my newsletter or anything but now, currently I love my newsletter, but anyway, so I didn't really want to write the short story thing. And it was in the back of my head and then one night. This was after like I was going through a breakup, so I was kind of in like a moody like. And I was just laying in bed just thinking in this idea for the short story just like popped in my head like, out of nowhere, and I was like oh my god, and I just like started writing I pulled out my laptop because I couldn't sleep because I was just like so stressed out with all this stuff going on, and I just started writing it, and then I finished it the next day. So I was just like, awesome, really just like kind of like, I was almost like I was channeling my emotions from that like breakup into the writing, like, almost like kind of a therapy thing. And I found myself doing the same thing right now. But going through another breakup and writing another short story so maybe it's a, it's like a thing that's gonna keep happening.

Jon: So you’re the Taylor Swift of books right?

Maggie: The Taylor Swift two books, literally, actually.

Jon: So I don't relate on the breakup level, because when I started writing I've been married so I, didn’t have that conflict in my life, but I do definitely relate to that idea of when you're going through something right and, and it's interesting because originally we had all these house renovations, and it really tore our lives up. And what I went into that time with was this idea of… “oh no, if I write now, it's gonna screw everything up, like, like my mind is not right right now yeah shouldn't right, and I ended up pointing out that that, that is exactly the wrong mindset because what ended up happening was I didn't have a way to process what I was going through, because I wasn't writing, and then it ended up doing double damage because what I did start writing, I use all of the kind of emotions and the conflict that I was going through I figured out how that related to my characters in my story and I just it just propelled me through the next draft of my novel, and it's so funny because I was like wait, I should have been doing this ahead of time because it would have benefited my book. First of all, and then second of all, once I got that all out like I had this new perspective on the situation. And I thought, well shoot… here I was like miserable about it for so long, and when really I had to do was just keep working. And I actually would have been able to process it better so it's it's cool that you know obviously there's things that are, You know, big or small things are awful and you don't want awful things to happen to you, but when you do when they inevitably do, there's definitely something that you can tap into to both overcome the problem but also benefit your writing so it's, I don't know it's maybe it's a kind of a weird way to look at life but, but I think it's a, I think it can be helpful for someone to to think about, Okay, I'm going through this, how can I turn the lemons into lemonade.

Maggie: Yeah, definitely. I mean I've always seen, writing is kind of like a therapy type of thing because it really is like, you know you're really absorbed in your writing for that period of time where you are writing like when I sit down at my desk and I start to write, it's like, that's all I'm thinking about so it is like kind of a good little escape from everything that's going on and it's a good way to like, you know, get your emotions into something that's, you know, constructive.

Jon: It's interesting you say that too because it is an escape, but it's almost like if, if, you know, people tell you how to handle certain situation right and you're like, they're like oh just don't think anything about it and just escape. And it's like, okay, that's an option but then that leads it to its own problems because you're not dealing with the problem, then you have the other side of it where it's like, okay, just focus on it internalize it, figure out what you know like, really, really think about it, and it's like, well then you're overthinking about it and you're probably doing some other damage to yourself, but writing, it's almost like both of those things happening simultaneously, bring you into this central point where it's like okay I am escaping the issue, but in the back of my mind I'm actually dealing directly with the issue, and I think that that's, that's such a, obviously, neither of us are mental health consultants, like that so we don't, we don't really know the science behind it but I really think there's something to the process of writing and maybe this translates to other disciplines to where you're escaping something but you're also dealing with it in this kind of act of creation.

Maggie: Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree, definitely.

Jon: So, you have self published Sacred. Did you go through any, any debate with yourself about whether to try out traditional publishing or dive right into self publishing like what all went behind that decision?

Maggie: So originally, what I was like, just lucky like first considering publishing when I was like 16 or something like that it was, it was in like fresh, it was, I don't know what year of high school was like maybe like sophomore something year. I have the I considered both options, because I think it's best to, you know obviously consider both options first before you make a decision, so I really did a lot of research and do both industries at first, but the more I started learning about self publishing the more I realized that this was the option for me because I would, I wanted to have complete creative control over my project, you know I had a vision for what I wanted and I was going to make that vision a reality. I didn't want there to be any middleman making decisions for me I wanted to be at the forefront. And I've kind of always had this like sense of like, like this entrepreneurial spirit so I, it was a very exciting thing for me to take this project head on. And I mean, it's had its ups and downs of course you know, so publishing is quite stressful because you're the only one doing it in the success of your book really hinges on like what you do. But of course, success is different for everyone would depends on your definition but anyway, it definitely was the option for me because of the creative control, and the, you know, having my own project in my name in my hands and yeah, just like being able to do everything by myself. Which, I mean, for some people that might be a little daunting, you know, Having to do everything by yourself is definitely daunting but for me personally, which is why I say like, definitely research your options before you make a decision, you know, just because one person does something doesn't mean that it's like right for you. So, you know, of course, research the options before you make a decision because what works for someone might not work for you, and self publishing ended up working out very well for me.

Jon: So you did a live stream the other day with your hardbacks coming in. The quality is really good, both on the product itself but in the design as well. You really thought through every element with your designer, and you guys did a great job. And not only that but inside the book you have illustrations. So, each is it each chapter or how many illustrations you have?

Maggie: Yeah, every chapter has an illustration. And then there's the map as well.

Jon: I mean, I might be making assumption, but you did not draw the illustrations, is that right?

Maggie: No I hired out and illustrator.

Jon: Okay, and so when you're working with that person. How do you communicate, kind of what you wanted and did it take long to get to a place where you're like, oh, that's, that's what I mean or like can you talk about that process?

Maggie: Yeah, so I did. I wrote out little descriptions for every single header and I would be like, I included reference photos of what I want, made it as clear as possible so she knew what I wanted and she was pretty much spot on and in she did a great job with it. You know a couple of the headers are creatures that I've actually made up, so you know she did a really good job bringing those to life, and you know working with me I think it's all about finding the right person to work with, because you know there's tons of creators out there, and, of course, many of them are very talented, but you know it's all about finding the person who kind of like matches your vibe and sees your vision and knows like, you know, kind of understand you, it's a little bit of a mutual understanding between the creator and the you know the commissioner because obviously they get a little bit of creative control as well. But yeah, I sent descriptions of what I wanted. And she was, She was very spot on with all of them, I think, you know, I found a good artist and she did a really good job.

Jon: And this is separate from the cover designer, right?

Maggie: Yeah.

Jon: So that’s two different people and so I imagine it's kind of the same thing you think okay what do I want from the perspective of what someone sees when they pick up the book, and what do I want when they're experiencing the story.

Maggie: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's actually I have a cover designer, a map like a cartographer, I guess is the official name, and then I have an interior illustrator, so I need different artists working with me on this project, though, for my cover, which is kind of funny, I actually am the character on the cover. So, I like took a photo of myself in that position, and then drew it out. So that's kind of like a weird little tidbit that people don't know.

Jon: That's cool, as I did not know that about it.

Maggie: Yeah, yeah.

Jon: Cool, well the cover looks great, everything about it really looks great. And by the time this episode is out the book will be available so some of what we're talking about is like oh looking forward to release, but just, you know, being a new podcast we're recording a little bit ahead of time so when did you okay so you're writing when you're 12. And then you are changing this kind of semi Ben 10 fan fiction into something that's your own. I imagine that 12 or 13 or whatever the ages, you're not thinking, Oh, I'm going to self publish this one day, because self publishing is super new when you're that age, so it's probably not even on your radar. But I guess when does the switch flip for you thinking to… “you know what, I don't just write this I write this so other people can experience it.”

Maggie: Yeah, when I first started writing and I, I had no intentions of publishing I was just writing for fun, and like seeing what happened. And so I you know I was talking with my I call my mentor, but he's not really a mentor, it's more of like a friend like a family friend that I was really close with. I was talking to him and he suggested he, he suggested that I look into publishing, and I was like, oh I don't know like I, at the time it was kind of like, oh publishing a book that's like, I can't like I can't do that like that's not something that's like even an option available whatever like publishing a book just was like, you know, because I feel like everyone when they're little is like, oh I want to publish a book, blah blah blah. And it's, it was like a weird like out of the reach kind of thing, but I considered it I was like, Oh, that'd be cool, like, if I could publish it. And then over the years he kept telling me I should look into it, and when I got to be like 1617 somewhere, somewhere around there. I really was like, I mean, what if I did like look into publishing because it's like, why not, Why not just like research publishing, because I've been working on this thing for so long and I wanted to kind of like, you know, do something with it. So I like, did the research and then I decided that I was going to take my big take a shot at it. And that was, at first I was interested in traditionally publishing so I was doing like research into agents and stuff like that, but then I discovered self publishing, and that really took that really took hold in my mind, and that's when I was like, oh, it's gonna be this I'm gonna self publish this book and it's gonna happen. And I started doing all that research and I got my cover design way early, so I was like alright I'm gonna finish this book, within the next month and I'll polish it. That was when I was like 17 So, obviously, that did not happen. It took me a lot longer than a month to finish. But, you know, with that, it's like, take however long you need, it doesn't need to, you know, doesn't matter if it takes you a month, or nine years to finish something it's, you know, that dedication to continue working on it is like really what matters but yeah I don't know, long winded answer to the question.

Jon: Well it's funny because you mentioned you getting the cover done early, and you know I think that kind of speaks to, it almost sounds like you kind of had like, once you decided you were going to do it, you almost have like this fearlessness about like I like just gonna go ahead and do it like it wasn't, it doesn't sound like you had a lot of like, doubts creeping in. At that point did you or, and that was just a different sort of response or did you ever have that come into play later?

Maggie: I feel like I've always had the confidence about it because it's been a passion project for me, I mean I've been working on it for nine years. So, you know, it was more. I want to publish this because it's been so important to my life for so long. I don't really care. You know how well it does I'm publishing this because this is my passion and I wanted the guy set my mind to it and this is kind of like a goal accomplishment for me. But of course you know I want the book to be successful because, obviously, anyone who puts something out wants it to be successful. But in the back of my mind I do, I'm just very happy with, you know, any sort of result, you know I put this book out, and it sells one copy and I'll be thrilled. I'll be excited about that but, you know, if I put it out and it's well received, that's also good, but for me it's just, it's been such a huge passion project, this is just something that I needed to do in my life, and having finally done is like, wow, it's like I've done this I can do anything you know. Yeah. The doubts, haven't really been like that big, because it's been a passion project, you know, The worst that can happen is it flops, and then I read another book, and whatever you know it's just, it's, it's like, I saved up all this money for this. You know I don't want to spend my money on anything else like this is like my like thing. I don't know it's like it's hard to like explain, because I don't know it's like, it's weird. It's such a passion, such a very important thing to me. So, but yeah, obviously I do want it to be successful. Because that'd be cool.

Jon: Is there something about like the you know you mentioned if just one person reads it, or, and again we were talking about when you decided you wanted to publish it, what does it mean to you when you have a reader, and, you know, these ideas that you've had for nine years are developed this story for nine years, Like, I struggle to ask this question because I'm like if someone asked me this question I don't know how I be answered. I don't know it's like sometimes that's unfair, but, like, like I don't know if you've been able to identify and maybe that's why I want to ask it because I'm like trying to identify this in myself too like, like what is it about like having someone else read it, that is satisfying.

Maggie: Yeah, that's I mean that's a good question. It's just, I think it really comes down to like the affirmation that like the confirmation that, you know what you're doing is worthwhile and like they you've created something that's like a value to someone else, and you know when I see someone reading it, or when I hear that someone really enjoyed the story I'm like, Okay, so like, that's awesome. Like I spent so much time on it and it was worth it was worthwhile and people are enjoying it and it's like giving them something to do in their free time, you know, helping them through something you know whatever like they're that your creative work is appreciated, and it's just, it's like, it's kind of deeper than that though I feel like, like when someone reads your book, it's like deep down and you you're like, you have this feeling, it's like, oh wow, like, that's awesome. I don't know how to explain the feeling, but like, you know, when I would get reviews for my short story and people would message me saying that they loved it or whatever that they cried or something like that. I was just like deep down like had this feeling I was like, that's awesome, like it's just such a it's such a weird thing to explain like like you said.

Jon: Okay, I think, in what you're saying I think you're helping me understand it better to it which is why my guy asked out because I don't know there's something about like someone else reading it because what you can put in a novel is different than what you can just talk about like most people, I don't think can describe just the emotional journey, and the end what an author can contain into a novel, like if you had the same amount of words to not use a story, and say what you're trying to say. Yeah, it's not going to come off the same way. So, having part of yourself in a fictional story is almost this way of communicating to someone else, how you feel. And you know, to have someone else read it, you are then heard in a way that you can, can't be heard by just speaking to someone like, yeah, like me and you talking now like we can get into deep issues like we have and talk about all these things, but it's not the same as when, like, so I read an early draft of your novel and it's like, oh, like, like there's some, like there's elements here, where, you know, you go through it and then, oh, I've heard something that this person is communicating right and I think there's just this extra kind of, you know, magical. I don't know if there's a better word, but yeah, magical value to understanding someone through reading their work and so I wonder if there's a little bit of that element, and then kind of going off of that and going off of what you were saying, you know, when you see something, or when you read someone else's novel, and you go through this experience of, well how would a satisfying story and and really spoke to me you know I've really, I really connected with the story, like there's just something about that that's so powerful and so the ability to give that feeling to someone else I think yes, you know, it's almost like you know you mentioned this, this mentor of yours and I'm sure that it because I have someone in my, my life who has mentored me a lot. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of times I think, Oh, why is this person spending so much time on me like it doesn't make any sense. And then I've explored kind of this idea too and I think about times that I've been able to mentor someone about something else or even writing now and it's like there's something about it where, like, helping someone to be able to give that gift of their story to someone like there's just something powerful there and yeah, again, it's like, it's almost like we have to talk around it because we can't, maybe that's sort of a story should actually be, we should have a story about what it's like to read a story and then understand it, but it's hard to explain. But I think we at least wrestled with it which is, which is good. We attempted the explanation.

Maggie: Yeah, it's hard, I mean it's like, I feel like writing is such like a personal thing and then you like, share it with other people and they can interpret it in their own way based on like what they're going through and it's just, it's weird writing is, I mean writing is obviously very special and it's something that I think, you know we'll be around for ever, because it's like a way of telling something it's a way of like expressing your emotions, it's a way of expressing who you are, it's literally like an outlet, I feel like to, to who a person is and it's just such an important like thing and our winner world. And I just, you know, I love writing.

Jon: Same here. I love writing too, and I think that's a great note to end on, Maggie, thank you so much for coming on the show it was a pleasure to have you.

Maggie: I really enjoyed this conversation and I just want to thank you again for letting me come out here being your first guest.

Jon: Can you let everyone know one more time where they can find your books?

Maggie: Yes. So, this short story is available on Amazon for those of you who do not want to subscribe to the newsletter, but if you do subscribe to the newsletter. I promise I'm cool and will not spam your inbox, and then the story is called Sacred, Eslura’s Calling and that will be available June 24, a week from recording, and that will be available on every platform that you can buy books, and as well as you can get signed copies on my website.

Jon: Thanks for listening to this episode of Cause of Craft. For more information about Maggie's writing, head over to www.margaretcbeeler.com There you can also join her newsletter for your free copy of A Sacred Tale, The Heart of the Kella. I'll have links to her website and her Instagram in the show notes, and also at www.causeofcraft.com. Hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode, and follow at cause of craft on Instagram, to stay up to date on the latest news and clips. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider leaving a five star review on Apple podcasts, and if you have feedback, suggestions, or guest recommendations, send an email to Jon at causeofcraft.com. See you next week.

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