S1-Ep9_Myrna_Clayton

Disabled Lives Matter

Disabled Lives Matter

Season 1, Episode 9

Co-Hosts: Nadine Vogel & Norma Stanley

Guest: Myrna Clayton

Intro: [Music playing in background] Disabled Lives Matter… here we go!

Voiceover: Hello and welcome to this week’s episode of the disabled lives matter podcast with co-hosts Nadine Vogel and Norma Stanley... yay!

Nadine Vogel: Hello everyone, this is Nadine Vogel your co-host of disabled lives matter we are more than a podcast we are a movement, and I am so excited to have my co-host with me Norma.

Norma Stanley: Hey everybody this is disabled lives matter time and you're going to have a wonderful time today so let's get to it.

Nadine Vogel: Absolutely, and you know why we are going to have a wonderful time because we have the amazing Myrna Clayton with us today.

Norma Stanley: Yes, America’s songbird.

Nadine Vogel: So uh yeah I got to tell ya I mean I know you're a professional singer, you’ve been a US cultural ambassador but I want to hear about this songbird thing, how did you get that title.

Myrna Clayton: You know in performing, the songbird part came first before the American part came just kind of putting them together but songbird oftentimes when people hear me sing they’ll refer to me as a songbird and so we sort of just kind of stuck and because I perform abroad being known as being from America, it was America songbird because of you know, nationally, then I’m easily recognized as from America so that’s where America songbird came from just from the perspective, what the international travels that I do.

Nadine Vogel: got it got it well, I gotta tell you, you know we got to meet out in a few months back, and I remember we were both interviewed on a show and I got off that show and I thought wow how many different things can this one person do and have so much and not exhausted not anything I was amazed, so I really want to talk about show ability, I believe it was initially called able to. Can you tell our listeners what show ability is and what brought you to found this organization.

Myrna Clayton: Okay, well, first of all show ability is a 501 C three it's been around now for 12 years officially as a 501 C three for 12 years and Show ability is for people with visible and invisible disabilities and the support of people that love them, we are allies that uplift the gifts of people with disabilities so that they can be valued and appreciated for their gifts and their talents at the end of the day, we want to promote the talents of performing artists with disabilities. And for the audience's that come to see them, we want to very much so give them a place of being welcome and thrilled to be in the audience experiencing folks who look like them and showing showcasing their talent, and so our North star is to be for the arts entertainment industry, what the Paralympics and the Special Olympics are for the sports industry showcasing excellence and talent.

Nadine Vogel: Ok I like that. Norma, she’s one amazing lady isn’t she.

Norma Stanley: Absolutely, absolutely and I’ve been blessed to know her for a few years, I am also blessed to be a member of her board that.

Myrna Clayton: Norma is one of our board members and we’re so thrilled to have her, she is so dynamic.

Nadine Vogel: Well, I’m curious, the story that I’ve heard is that how you came to start this organization was that you saw I think a 10-year-old boy who had cerebral palsy and he was having trouble, I think, getting up on the pulpit in church or something to sing is that accurate.

Myrna Clayton: Yes, it was it was it was interesting because I happened to be there. And I saw him struggle to get up three steps, and I guessed he had cerebral palsy because he had the canes on his arms and he was 9 10 or 11 and I kid you not Nadine, when he started singing because, as you know, of course, everyone goes aw you know you feeling a kind of way about him struggling to get Into the space for him to be able to perform, but he got right up there and turn to the audience after he gathered himself and he began singing and he just blew the place out of the water, I mean it was so, I and I’m sure everybody in the audience forgot all about his challenge because his voice was so amazing and it's crazy because you know. I go on, I wasn't thoughtful at the time I was you know I didn't get his number because that wasn't that wasn't on my radar at the time, I was just admiring a talent, the person who had tell like I would admire anybody. And, but it just so happens that about five years later he crossed my mind, and I was like oh, he ought to be a teenager now he ought to be killing it, so I want to hear him today, and so I didn't know him I didn't know, I didn't have any connection with him, and so I began asking my musician friends, because I know musicians that play in orchestras or churches for party bands, for you know jazz ensembles. I know musicians across the gamut, and I asked, and no one knew I said, do you know any performers with disabilities, you know any singers with disabilities and out of about 30 or 40 musicians that I spoke to musician’s choir directors, no one knew anybody. And to me, I was like that doesn't make sense. Now, mind you, I have an MBA, and so I come from a corporate background that deals with new products and new business development, and so I know statistics and I know it sounds like that just doesn't make any sense that none of you know anybody that has a disability that sings I mean you're around singers you're around musicians and none of you know anybody and so at that point, I began saying okay obviously there's a need right obviously there's an opportunity and so we went from there. We had our very first show our very first event was a talent show and then that's when we got into the space of recognizing that oh wait a minute per person with disability can't get on stage because stages are not accessible or green rooms not accessible tech areas are not accessible so that again that wasn't on my radar so I was like wait a minute what do you mean we can't get on stage and so things that are ADA, ADA doesn't cover that kind of stuff. So at that point, I became, not only a lover of talent, but a serious advocate because there's some basic things that we don't, because from childhood, I say we're taught not to point and not to stare so we don't it doesn't come to our mind it's not a part of our consideration set and so as a result, we don't even think about the fact that oh you don't have that. The next question is well why you don’t have that. So it's just kind of like what? You know, just some intuitive things that we take for granted and unless we're in a situation where you're, if you happen to be where you're a parent with a child with special needs, or have a disability, then at that point you're like. Oh no my child needs to have this child needs to have access and if everybody else has access, then we should have equal for it certainly equity access as well, so at that point, I became a fighter because my talent couldn't get on stage.

Nadine Vogel: Right, well and that’s the challenge right Norma.

Norma Stanley: Absolutely and we know as parents, Nadine and I both being parents of children with disabilities, I mean you become an automatic fighter because you wanted to make sure that your child doesn't miss anything and other families and children, like ours, so we are automatically it just it's just part of who we become. And you know I love the fact that what you're trying to do for performing artists and for families like mine, who I like to go and visit and watch and participate in all of those things to you know that you're trying to open up zoom as an accessibility for this Community.

Myrna Clayton: It's so funny if I can kind of jump in because, because we had Artists with disabilities on stage, then of course we would have disproportionately more audience members on the disability spectrum and facilities aren't prepared for that either. I mean, I had a security guard come to me and say ma'am if you have one more person with a wheelchair come in there will be a fire hazard.

Nadine Vogel: Oh, my gosh.

Myrna Clayton: Well, where are they to go, I don't know what the lobby, but they can't be in here and so after some expletives. I was like hey, this doesn’t make sense because they had they had space for three wheelchairs three and you can go someplace you can't if you come with a person than the person you can't sit with the people you come with me there's so many. So many hindrances and barriers that again the plate the facilities aren't thinking about and that's because I guess there's not enough of us raising hell to say to hey, we're paying, we have the income to buy a ticket, you know we've got the give us the access give make things accountable and accommodating for us. You have an accountability to us as you're paying customers.

Nadine Vogel: Right no, absolutely and I know that you know, accessibility as we're talking about it, is critical. So, I think I mean I realized that with show ability it's not just one thing you have a number of layers number of components to what you do. So one of the ones I know I want to ask you about was your inclusive chorus. Since you're talking about accessibility and inclusivity, could you talk a little bit about that.

Myrna Clayton: Absolutely, you know I’m really excited about that, because that chorus we started last year during the pandemic and we had planned to have it, you know, we had planned to start it before the pandemic happen, you know that was a part of our you know our strategic plan to start that, but the pandemic happened, it was like well, this is the 30th anniversary of ADA we can't let that stop us plan to do and so me being one who's a stickler for okay this, it is what it is, it's so the show must go on. So I started gathering, you know different persons who I knew were singers that are with and without disabilities very good singer, this is not a kumbaya thing, this is it singers and the challenge came. All of the public facilities, where we could have had rehearsal all of the churches, everything was closed, so all the places that was supposed to be Community centers or Community oriented places were closed So where could we rehearse because we did not have at that time we still don't have and we're looking for we desirous of a place to rehearse and. And, and so thankfully Norma’s church her pastor allowed us to come and rehearse there in the very beginning, and then there was a Community a venue music venue that also said yes, you can come here and so as long as we were socially distance, we could, and so, starting in. We recruited June, July August and we started rehearsals in August, September. Right after Labor Day and we rehearsed until November getting into the holidays and we were able to have a kickoff concert the original plan was to have it in in 2020 but, of course, had challenges with COVID, in terms of getting a venue, where we can have it. But, we finally were able to do a kickoff concert, where we recorded live we recorded live and showed it virtually. And so we were able to show it at the bucket theater we recorded it at the bucket theater here in Atlanta, which has an accessible stage has an accessible tech area has an accessible green room, so they are accessible, all the way, which is phenomenal. Many theaters in Atlanta do not have that, I mean the larger theaters don't have that and so they were and even the seating was accessible, but we didn't we have social distance we had very limited seating with in terms of guests, but we were really excited about the inclusive chorus because it allows us to sort of get it that mainstreaming yeah you know for those persons who feel that.

Nadine Vogel: Oh, I’m so glad you use that term we use it all the time, we always say mainstreaming people with disabilities.

Norma Stanley: Yes, yes.

Myrna Clayton: So, this was our effort of curating something from a mainstreaming standpoint with and without disabilities for them coming together in a truly inclusion, you know, inclusive and that's why it's called inclusive chorus.

Nadine Vogel: Got it, got it, well that's oh my gosh that's fabulous. I know there's some other programs that you also do, I don't know if Norma, I’m just taking up all the time.

Norma Stanley: I mean, I would like her to share what she does during October, and you know what the career day and how effective that has been for especially elementary students. A little bit about that.

Myrna Clayton: Oh, absolutely October is disability employment awareness month. As you guys know. Many people don't but, as you guys know and during the month of October we go into elementary schools were with professionals with disabilities. And the entire school talk about inclusion, mainstreaming, the entire student body is having the opportunity to meet these professionals on the disability spectrum. And they and we do a sort like a round Robin where they rotate the students rotate the presenters stay in one room in the kids rotate and we talk to K through two to second grade in the morning and third from fifth grade in the afternoon, it was a full day and every student in the school is able to interact and engage with these professionals and here's the thing they can ask them anything they want to. Does that hurt, how did it happen to you, you know just any question that they want to ask, and the professionals are ready to answer and say well I’m you know I’m just like you, you know you all. Whatever and, and these are persons that across the disability spectrum, whether that's you know, autism, down syndrome wheelchair user, deaf in that was a crazy experience, because it was so funny it was like the kids were watching a tennis match. Because, you know the person deaf was signing and the interpreter the translator not interrupter the translator was behind you know sitting with the kids, so it was like watching a tennis match was so funny. And so we're you know we're learning in this process on how you know so next time you know we'll do we'll make do a different kind of a thing, because of course the translator has to see what the person is saying, but they don't necessarily have to sit with the students, and so we got to figure this out, but that's my attitude with everything, just like parents, you know, have to figure things out. When they have you know we're having to figure things out because this, this is our effort at getting at those who have been newly socialized not to point and not to stare. We want them to be able to tell their brothers and sisters their parents, oh no it's okay, we can you know that he's okay, if I asked him a question, or if I speak to him or say hi to her, you know it's okay, you know as opposed to get weirded out. And so, the kids are the kids love it we have one person that’s a wheelchair user and they brought their service dog, so the service dog was the celebrity because the kids love the dogs. She was able to teach them that you don't pet a service dog, a service dog is at work. And so, you don't pet a service dog and so those kinds of things that were able to teach the kids. And the teachers, because the teachers are clueless to you know, and it wasn't separate the kids in the special needs classes came and were a part of the entire student body as well, and so it allows the students to be able to see the students that when the special needs classes, you know see them in a different light as well, so it’s great.

Nadine Vogel: That's fabulous.

Myrna Clayton: Yeah, we even we even talked about bullying and how bullying is bad.

Nadine Vogel: And bullies grow up, unfortunately.

Norma Stanley: Yes, right. They're doing it as children they probably will do it as adults, we have to cut that out.

Nadine Vogel: Absolutely, do you know that almost 25% of the complaints need the eoc on the part of employees with disabilities is for harassment and bullying. Different than what we see in the kids in schools but bullying nonetheless right it's still an issue.

Commercial Break: Thank you for being part of history in the making. Show ability is very excited about forming the first ever inclusive chorus comprised of good singers with and without disabilities. As a 501C3 Organization, show ability seeks to be agents of change. We are leveraging art and entertainment as the vehicle that brings visibility and awareness to the capabilities within the disability community. We are doing this by breaking down barriers in three critical areas: accessibility, opportunity, and employability especially in performing arts. The significance of the disability community has been overlooked for far too long. It is our desire as show ability to the arts and entertainment industry what the Paralympics and the Special Olympics are to the sports industry. Showcasing excellent talent and ability. Remember, nothing about the disability community without the disability community.

Nadine Vogel: So, I know something else that you do and it kind of, the reason I want to bring it up, I think it relates to this whole career day and career development is, I think you have a program that focuses on artists development as well as talent booking right? I think that was like that was the bomb I just thought that was so cool so, can you tell us about that.

Myrna Clayton: Yes, you know that's sort of still in our labs because we're working and we're recruiting artists, you know on the disability spectrum. Well, just like we know it's hard to find artists that want to come into the spotlight. Well, others are having that challenge to, and especially in Georgia more and more films and movies, are being done here, and so they're looking to cast talent on the disability spectrum, and so they can't find them, and so they would reach out to us, and so I was fine like wait. Well, we can become an agency, you know, and so that so we're growing in that space to and it's been wonderful because you know they'll find out about us know reach out to us and as matter of fact, we just. They were looking for an asl after two weeks ago, and so a casting agency reached out to us and we were able to you know to submit you know, a name for them and here's the thing that we're learning and so, in terms of the artist development that's something that we want to go into once covid is kind of past us. Because, we know artists that are you know singers and dancers, but they're not necessarily actors and so we'll or people will hear about us and we have submitted that in terms of this last one, the asl she is an actor, but we've submitted for teenagers who are wheelchair users they've never acted before but they want to and we're presenting them the opportunity to even consider that as a possibility, so that has been great because what the feedback has been please tell them to be like there look we like that we'd like their tenacity, please tell them to take acting classes. It’s so great and so there's not another organization like ours in the southeast. And so that's dealing with performing arts or in, and when I say performing arts that's multi-dimensional that's anybody who's going to be on stage whether that's dancing modeling singing musicians comedians actors anybody that's on stage that's what we want to present the opportunity for. And again, many people don't want to cut people on the disability spectrum don't want to come into the spotlight because of the stigma narrative absolutely so I’m just going to say, for us, our goal is to give them to let them know this is a safe space.

Nadine Vogel: Right well and I think, Norma, you told me that the organization provides variety shows and talent shows. Really, you know, bring to what you're saying to life.

Norma Stanley: Absolutely, absolutely and what's really cool about it is you know when they do the modeling and you know model disabilities and then It just it's inclusive of all the different areas, and so you know people who are in the audience get a really good look. Of the variety of people along the disability spectrum through the programming that this particular organization and presents so it's really, really be a very exciting so we're really excited about where the organization is going, where show ability is going moving forward.

Nadine Vogel: So, let me ask you this um this something I believe that I don't know if it's new or you've been doing this a long time, but I believe you have something called a virtual arts masterclass.

Myrna Clayton: Yes. Well, it's funny because the whole virtual thing really started last year during you know, trying to figure out an annual kudos to Fulton County arts and culture, as well as Community foundation greater Atlanta because they gave us Fulton county encouraged us to do a virtual arts initiative, because obviously people weren't coming out and going to the theaters and venues. And so, with the success of that, now we decided okay we're going to do something monthly to reach our target audience and offer them tools and techniques training to assist them, and so, in February, our board chair is an amazing Radio announcer and public speaker and so she did was she works with a lot of musicians and artists and so she did a master class on how independent artists can market themselves during a pandemic. Last month March we had asl improv class where the leader is deaf and so we had interpreters there, and so it was a great improv pledge which you taught Improve. And then this month we were talking about the art of business we're collaborating with an organization called synergies work that works with the disability community and starting businesses. And so, for she's going to do a master class on what it takes to start a business. For the disability community and so we're doing things once a month, what is the last Sunday of every month at four o'clock and so we're really doing those types of things in this virtual space, just to you know reach our audience and give them something they may not necessarily have the opportunity, you know to be exposed to.

Nadine Vogel: And it sounds like this is something that can go way beyond covid, right, even when everybody comes back together.

Norma Stanley: Absolutely.

Myrna Clayton: And it's great because one of the things that this virtual thing is teaching us is we're not limited in our geography right, you know we've actually had persons participate from California we've had persons participate from other cities and so it's been wonderful as matter of fact, talk about virtual I did a last year I did a I have a relationship, when I perform I’m always trying to do something and connect with the disability community, and so I have a relationship with a disability group in Russia and so they reached out to me and said Hey, would you do a jazz masterclass. So, I was like Okay, you know, so it was crazy, because of course I’m talking and then there's a translator speaking in Russian you know because I don't speak Russian. And so, this virtual thing allows us to reach people that we wouldn't normally reach so it's this virtual we definitely you're absolutely right we're definitely planning to keep this as a part of our program offering.

Nadine Vogel: What kind of, I mean, I can only imagine the impact you're having right on not just people with disabilities and their lives and certainly you clearly illustrate that disabled lives do matter right but also the impact you're having on non-disabled individuals right. Awareness and oh my gosh I mean I don't know if you track numbers, but you have to be in I don't know hundreds of thousands of people.

Myrna Clayton: You know, we're trying to get there, you know it's funny because, as an organization, you know we're passionate and we're about programming. This year is the year that we're going to get into the more structure organization stuff. Because I’m an artist and so I’m looking production performance very you know reach the audience make the audience, you know happy do that and so we're now into just got an update you know one with our brand name change, you know that was the catalyst for us shifting and going to the next level and so we're definitely looking to increase our awareness in the general population, but you know Nadine, 20%, you already know 20% of US population are persons on the disabilities spectrum so at the end of the day, honestly, I could care less about the general population 20% is not even a niche.

Nadine Vogel: I’m glad you said that I wrote an article that said when a niche is not a niche.

Myrna Clayton: Exactly you get me and so I’m I mean to me, if we add just one person meaning like yourself someone who loves the disability Community that's 40% of the population right there. And so, you know so that's the general population, as far as I’m concerned, and so, if somebody doesn't get it. So what there's enough of us that care and are advocates and supporters here, and so, but all of that, in terms of mainstreaming, you know okay there's enough here that we there's a demand for meeting the needs right now, as they are. And so I’m just such a huge proponent of give, meet the needs to accommodate where what we're trying to do it's not a money issue it's not a money issue it's a you need to accommodate us and we're doing programming and rather than just trying to, and this is just me rather than trying to fit into the general population we've got enough we've got enough demand that this is the largest minority population, the country, my goodness.

Nadine Vogel: Well, and it's one of those populations that anyone can join.

Norma Stanley: At any time.

Nadine Vogel: Before we started a few of us were having a conversation about how our age is impacting some of us dipping our toe in the disability water, so to speak, with things going on. So, I have a question I want to go back to accessibility. So, my company, one of the one of the many things that we do is, we have a team that goes on site and does physical accessibility universal design assessments. So, when we're thinking about you know front of stage right. But also, behind backstage right what are what are those things that you think are critical that we need, our listeners who may own theaters are managed theaters in an auditorium is what is it from your perspective, they really need to be thinking about.

Myrna Clayton: To make a humanist. Because many of the stages are accessible in the back, because of equipment let's be clear, it is not because of performers or artists. It’s because of equipment they're lazy and they don't want to pick it up, so they want to roll it up there, and so let's be clear it's not because of the human beings it's because of equipment and so.

Nadine Vogel: Keep it real, keep It real.

Myrna Clayton: Yes, I’m sorry.

Nadine Vogel: No, that’s what it’s about, keeping it real, I love it.

Myrna Clayton: And so I say we're interested from street to seat, who has a front of house to back of house. Yes, so I mean from the person someone's dropped off at the front mobility standpoint, you know from the from the buses to parking that street to seats and because I needed I need accessible seating, I need choice seating and then front of house is of course staging where am I going to be positioned in that how did I go to the bathroom all of that, and then back of houses so back of house is not only stage but that's green room. Because I can't get to the green room and the green room may or may not be the bathroom may or may not be acceptable because it's you know it's back of house and then the tech area. The tech areas are not accessible and so those three areas back of House think about and so even more of that. The ramps are like 45-degree angles.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Myrna Clayton: As opposed to you know, and no one would you I would do a push back with someone says, well, you can just lift them on stage. Don't pick me up on stage I empathize with alley stroker, or you know because every night when she you know the best actor and she's having to be lifted hoisted and she's you know and so she's had to get used to that, as opposed to give her a ramp you know, and so, so the back of house is very much so, if you a ramp is number one preference because other people have mobility issues it's not just wheel chair users. So ramp is number one preference If not, then those lifts, the challenge with the lifts is oh my god again it's like industrial they're so loud.

Nadine Vogel: Right, suddenly everybody is looking.

Myrna Clayton: Correct and so make it make it, it’s accommodating for the human side of things, no one wants, I mean you feel like you're in jail, you know.

Norma Stanley: and make it so it's not so abstruse it, like you say we don't want to call attention to the fact that we're just trying to get into the building without children or without you know, whoever it is that needs the lift.

Myrna Clayton: Right, right.

Nadine Vogel: You know it's funny we on three work live with the entertainment industry and springboard and we developed a production toolkit for producers and executive producers to understand all these different aspects, even from you know scouting location. Right and that's why I’m asking this question because everything has to be taken into consideration, you know I know Ali knew she had said, you know the barriers are unfortunately barriers of thought right this bias that goes into it and based on how you think okay, we don't need this, we do need this now suddenly we don't have the ramp that we need, so I just, I just love what you're doing.

Myrna Clayton: And Nadine, here’s another thing, because, when oftentimes because, because the logo of the moniker for disability is related to wheelchair mobility issues, that's all people think about because back of house is mobile. No, there’s the blind community there's the deaf community and so not only just from a mobility standpoint accessibility is accessibility period across the disability spectrum and so. There needs to be some accommodations for people back of house okay if someone's death they can't hear when they come on stage. And so, so captioning you know things that are back of house, and so you know I have become more of a consultant kind of a thing, because it, you know because I am one, I’m a performer, and so I know the accommodations that I expect you know as a performer. You know, and so that gives me a sort of a different angle and a different look for me to be able to come on stage and be able to see okay, and the tech areas. And so that back of house, but I, but just it's just not back of house, the problem with back of house is it's not a part of the Ada building code because Ada is building codes, it is not human centered and so that's why I’m saying it has to be human center not equipment and that's what they're thinking about always huge that they're thinking about equipment.

Nadine Vogel: Well, you know it’s like websites right, you know you look at accessible website just because something is accessible does not mean it's usable. It’s a huge difference. Well, this has been fabulous, and we are unfortunately running out of time, so let me, let me if I may and then Norma, I’ll ask you to ask one last question as well, my last question is, you know if there's if there's one or two things that if there's someone listening from the entertainment performing arts industry, what is it you want them to know above all.

Myrna Clayton: Above all, we need to go beyond Ada. It's been 30 years. We need to go beyond building code requirements and to make it human centered. Think about if you were in that situation being empathetic walk in our shoes, you know walk into certain circumstance, if even if you're a temporarily, you know disabled meaning you broke your leg. Sure, you cannot get places. You know, and so just think about it that's your regular life everyday experience and so beyond let's go beyond Ada it's time to go beyond it's been 30 years and zero has been done, I shouldn't say zero very little miniscule has been done in 30 years, and so, so that would be for me and then think about show ability and yes it's all about visit we want people to we'd love to be able to partner and collaborate, especially with celebrities.

Nadine Vogel: So, can you share your website, or how people can get in touch, please.

Myrna Clayton: Absolutely it's simply it's show ability.org.

Nadine Vogel: Oh, that is easy okay. Okay.

Nadine Vogel: Well Norma, what do you have one last.

Norma Stanley: Well, I just was very thankful that you know, Marina was available, and I know that you know as she travels internationally, she does a lot with a disability community in those travels I just want to share just a short brief, you know moments in one of those situations when she was traveling as a US cultural ambassador, and what she did in some of those countries.

Myrna Clayton: Actually, we were right before the pandemic in Guatemala, and it just so happens that we were doing a master class and one of the young boys in the in the school had cerebral palsy. And, and whenever he sings, he would sit down and he has a beautiful voice, and so I am oftentimes I will invite persons if I think they're really talented to perform with me on stage during the concerts I mean it's my show, so I can invite you about I want to my microphone I can fight whomever. And so, giving them a platform that they've never had before, and so in this case I invited him to come and perform, and I said it's only one caveat, I don't want you sitting down. I need you to own your challenge because what's going to resonate with people is your voice, and so I need for you to know to stand as best you can and sing and be proud of, who you are and so that was something that was very important for me to instill in him, you know you know don't sit down don't, don’t do that. You're performing you're a singer your stage presence matters you know, and so that was just one I mean I could tell you stories after story, but, but that was the most recent one, it was it was very big you know I think I think that I made an impact on him.

Nadine Vogel: Well, you know it's interesting that you say that you think you made an impact on him, but it takes me back to how we started, which is that a 10-year-old boy in church made such an impact on your life and the lives of thousands of people with disabilities and their families and that's what's so amazing. And so, I just I just want to thank you so much for joining us, and thank you for all that you do, and I want to thank everyone for listening I’m sure you all enjoyed this session, as much as Norma and I did, and having it hosting it. This is Nadine Vogel, your co-host of disabled lives matter, and I think Myrna really proved disable lives do matter. And, Norma my co-host darling.

Norma Stanley: You guys have a great one it's been a great show and we'll talk to you guys soon.

Nadine Vogel: Ok, bye-bye everybody.

Myrna Clayton: Thank you God bless you all.

Norma Stanley: You too.

Nadine Vogel: You too.

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