Lauren McDuffie

Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

@Lauren_McDuffie, is the author of the beautiful and inspiring cookbook "Homemade-ish: Recipes and Cooking Tips That Keep It Real" Known for her knack of blending home-cooked charm with modern-day convenience, Lauren's work has been making waves in the culinary world. We'll dive into her creative process, chat about her beloved blog "My Kitchen Little," and get a glimpse into the life of someone who beautifully marries food, photography, and writing.

So grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and get ready to be inspired by the delightful Lauren McDuffie.

TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS:

Stephanie [00:00:15]:

Hi. Welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's dish, and I am here with the author Lauren McDuffie, Talking With My Mouth Full , and she is someone that I'm just getting familiar with. So Lauren, welcome to the program.

Lauren McDuffie [00:00:26]:

Thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie [00:00:28]:

Yeah. Your book, Homemade-ish, I think I saw it, like, on maybe a publisher's weekly list, and then I started paging through it. And you're I I hope this, like, hits you in the right way. You're kind of, like, sort of semi homemade ish, but not exactly.

Lauren McDuffie [00:00:48]:

Yes. No. That's you really hit the nail on the head with that. Okay. Yeah.

Stephanie [00:00:52]:

I used to watch semi homemade with Sandra Lee you. In the beginning of the Food Network days, and she's kinda gotten a bad rap. What I loved about her and what I loved when I was going through your book too is just this idea that we don't have to, like, make every single thing from scratch in order to put a decent meal on the table for our family.

Lauren McDuffie [00:01:16]:

Right. It's just that's just true.

Stephanie [00:01:19]:

And it prevents people sometimes from cooking at all. This idea that cooking is so complicated and so hard. And as someone who I mean, I'm just a home cook, and I feel like that's a great space where you can sometimes take shortcuts and also knowing the shortcuts to take.

Lauren McDuffie [00:01:38]:

Yes. Exactly.

Stephanie [00:01:40]:

So your book, Homemade-ish

Lauren McDuffie [00:01:42]:

Mhmm.

Stephanie [00:01:43]:

Is really lovely. And I felt like was the modern day version of sort of that idea because your food looks incredible. Your you must be a are you a a photo stylist? Because your food in your book is, like, amazing.

Lauren McDuffie [00:01:58]:

Thank you. Yes. I did the photography and the styling for all my books, and it's I just love that part of the process so much. So thank you for saying that.

Stephanie [00:02:07]:

I did laugh because you have a piece in there you, talk about, like, I just love this. This is my joy. And I'm in the middle of finishing a second book, and I'm not feeling that it's my joy.

Lauren McDuffie [00:02:23]:

I get that too. Yeah. That's fair. I was like, I'm all the time. So I under Yeah.

Stephanie [00:02:30]:

I have 35 pictures left, and I don't even wanna eat the food anymore because I'm so sick of it.

Lauren McDuffie [00:02:35]:

Yep. You've spent enough time with it probably. Yes. I get that. I do.

Stephanie [00:02:40]:

So catch my listeners up a little bit about you and who you are and your blog.

Lauren McDuffie [00:02:46]:

Okay. So I yes. I run a, a recipe website called my kitchen little, which I think it just turned 5, like, within the past week. So I I don't know. In blog years, that's not a baby anymore. So and and I run it as a business, which I really, I really enjoy. But prior to this website, I had a blog, which was very much a writing space. I love to write, and I started that, I don't know, maybe 12, 13 years ago, a long time ago back when food blogs were still sort of a novel thing.

Lauren McDuffie [00:03:19]:

Not everyone had one at the time. So I started I started that when my daughter was was a baby, and I just needed an outlet. And for me, cooking has always been my favorite sort of creative outlet. I love food. I love to talk about food, and a blog just seemed like a really nice way to gather together my creative interest with writing and cooking. And and, eventually, I fell in love with photography just by necessity because I learned that people want to see what you're talking about. Yes. So I grew a new love for that whole side of it too.

Lauren McDuffie [00:03:50]:

So so I had a food blog for a really long time purely as a hobby, but I I I met a lot of other people along the way who were in in food land just like me but in different ways. And, I had the opportunity to do my my first cookbook several years ago, which was kind of an homage to my Appalachian roots. And then I did another book a few years later, which is called Southern Lights. I lived in Charleston, South Carolina at the time. And

Stephanie [00:04:15]:

You did? My brother lives there. I love Charleston so much.

Lauren McDuffie [00:04:18]:

I love you. We moved to Portland a year ago from Charleston, and I was very sad to leave. But I love Portland too. So so it's it's been fine. But, yeah, I have a special spot in my heart for Charleston, and that book sort of was inspired by just my time living in, the low country and in the south, and I wanted to show off the healthier side of the southern table, which was a really fun book project. But, this book, Homemade ish, I just really enjoyed doing because I've found that a lot of my actual friends, like in my neighborhood and in my real life, are really drawn to things that are genuinely easy, truly low maintenance, and unintimidating. You know, I love a long cooking project with the best of them, something that takes all day and then I have to go out into the world to find really obscure ingredients. I like that because I'm a food nerd, and that's the kind of stuff that makes me happy.

Lauren McDuffie [00:05:11]:

But a lot of people, in fact, most people that I know, they're not like that. They they do, however, want to make food themselves in their home because there's a lot to be said for that, but they wanna do it with the least amount of fuss, you know, possible. And so that's really where the idea for this book came. And I also did use to watch semi homemade, and I appreciated kind of the heart of the show. The point of it made so much sense to me. So, yeah, I kind of wanted to breathe some modern new life into that concept. And because ready made foods and store bought foods have really come a long way since the nineties, and there's so much out there, that's that's really great fodder for jumping off and being creative and doctoring up into something new. And that was that's kind of the point of the book.

Stephanie [00:05:57]:

Yeah. So you take something that's maybe giving you a a a helping hand as it were, like pesto or deli meats or even, rotisserie chicken

Lauren McDuffie [00:06:08]:

Yes.

Stephanie [00:06:08]:

And then you kinda take it the rest of the way.

Lauren McDuffie [00:06:11]:

Absolutely. Yeah. I think that cookbooks really serve a wonderful purpose in just giving ideas also. I think sometimes just coming up with what to make for dinner can be, you know, a deterrent in and of itself. And so I'm I'm hoping that these recipes are also fodder for people's own just riffing and and their own interpretation. So, hopefully, it'll help people see their grocery stores kind of in a new light. Like, what do you mean for me? Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie [00:06:38]:

You mentioned in the book, I think it's 5, like, of your favorite products that everyone should have in their pantry at all times that you always have a meal available. And maybe it wasn't exactly 5, but I think it was pesto was 1. Yep. Curry. I think prepared curry was the

Lauren McDuffie [00:06:58]:

paste. I love I love a curry paste.

Stephanie [00:07:01]:

And can you share a few more?

Lauren McDuffie [00:07:03]:

Sure. And I think that this list probably changes, a little bit, but for me, a rotisserie chicken is always a go to. I I tend to never get sick of finding ways to wield a rotisserie chicken because you can just do so much with them. But I think this is gonna you know, people scoff at at bagged salads sometimes, which is silly to me, but I do a lot in this book with bagged salads. I usually have one in my fridge to play on and and riff on. I think they're really valuable because it saves you time with chopping and Yeah. Procuring all of the individual things. I just there's something to be said for that.

Lauren McDuffie [00:07:41]:

So

Stephanie [00:07:41]:

Do you have bagged salad? Like, are you an Aldi person? Are you a Trader Joe's person? Are you whatever your grocery store is where you are? Because they apparently someone told me once that the bagged salads at Aldi that are $3 are really quite good, and I've never had

Lauren McDuffie [00:07:57]:

I haven't either. Although, I'm people I see people talking about Aldi more and more singing its praises. So I will have to check that out. That's really good intel.

Stephanie [00:08:07]:

I can't get past the quarter to get the cart.

Lauren McDuffie [00:08:10]:

Oh. Oh, yeah. I can't do that.

Stephanie [00:08:12]:

I'm like, come on. Like, it's a quarter, but people say it ensures that the people bring the carts back into the store.

Lauren McDuffie [00:08:21]:

I see. Okay. Okay. I'm just like, charge

Stephanie [00:08:24]:

me a dollar. I don't care. I just want I don't wanna have to fish around in my bag for a quarter.

Lauren McDuffie [00:08:29]:

Right. I know. That's true. I didn't know about that whole thing. Okay. That is interesting. But it's funny you mentioned Trader Joe's because I just went there last week for the first time in, like, 6 years for no reason other than that. I've moved a few times and COVID happened, and I just hadn't been in a while, and I forgot how much I love that store.

Lauren McDuffie [00:08:49]:

Yeah. And it it's perfect for this book because they have so many wonderful things that are already kind of made and started for you. But, yeah, I almost panic bought so many things when I went in there because I was like, oh gosh. It all looks so good.

Stephanie [00:09:03]:

You are my person because I'm a panic shopper. Yeah. Like, where I just and and during COVID, I mean, I have still nightmares about trying to go to the grocery store during COVID and just literally throwing things in your cart and running out. But I'm also a panic orderer at a restaurant because I want everything.

Lauren McDuffie [00:09:23]:

Oh, I know. I I feel you on that. I'm a little bit like that. I close my eyes and just play roulette and

Stephanie [00:09:29]:

Yes.

Lauren McDuffie [00:09:30]:

That's like your dog. No. I get that. But I did I got some salads there last week to your point that were very good. So but, yeah, normally, I I grocery shop so much just for my work that it's almost a daily thing. And, I do get delivered groceries, which people think is funny because I don't always pick out my own individual this and that. But for pure efficiency sake, again, which is sort of the heart of this book, I just shop at, like, my big local supermarket and and get all my bagged salads and sundries there and, you know, use them in a pinch. They're always helpful.

Stephanie [00:10:04]:

Every day, what does your day look like? Like, are you already working on the next book, and is that what you're doing every day?

Lauren McDuffie [00:10:11]:

Yeah. You know, I, I did this book right before we moved from Charleston to Portland, and I did it really fast. For me, it was it was fast. And it didn't burn me out, but it definitely gave me a nice kind of pause in in the the cookbook making because I had a book come out a year ago as well. So I had 2 come out pretty close together, which has been really fun. But I'm just kind of enjoying sitting back a little and looking at the stuff I've made, and and I'm actually working on a non food related book, right now just to see, if that can go anywhere. So but I've been focusing a lot on my my website and growing that. I just you know, as I said before, it's past the 5 year mark, and it's really nice to see that, coming more to fruition and and doing doing pretty well.

Lauren McDuffie [00:11:02]:

So I've just kind of thrown myself into the to that side of things, but I'm sure another book idea will will will surface because I love making them. But, like, you you were just saying, it's a lot when you're in it. It's like, woah. I'm I why am I doing this? But it's it's great when all is said and done, but, yeah, I took a little break.

Stephanie [00:11:19]:

There's been a kinda trend that I've been seeing with cookbook authors and recipe developers. I'm curious if you're thinking about this at all. We have a lot of people that have launched substacks, and Instagram and TikTok are just full of recipes. And we're in some respects, I feel like have reached this, like, everything is just like this free recipe, and people just comment like recipe, recipe, recipe. Yes. And Yes. With that, which is great because you build an audience and you build a community, there are some creators that are like, wow. I'm just putting all this time, energy, and money into this thing that the books aren't making money like they used to.

Stephanie [00:12:06]:

Podcasts have never really made money unless you're, like, the top 20. And so we have all these creators spending all this energy, and we're all chasing, you know, the few scents that you get when someone watches something on a YouTube. So I'm wondering if, like, we're almost at, like, some of the creators, Carolyn Chambers has talked about this, about taking all of her recipes off of her website and really funneling people only into recipe ways that she can monetize. Have you thought about that at all, or do you think about that when you're working on your blog?

Lauren McDuffie [00:12:41]:

Yeah. I do. Because sometimes it does start to feel almost futile when you really sit back and you think of I mean, and you just summarized it really well. I go back and forth. I mean, I actually started a substack, as well, and I've enjoyed that as a separate space for me to write more creatively because no one comes to food blogs anymore, as you know, to hear hear what anyone has to say about their life. I mean, that's a that's a big joke now. You know, get to the recipe already. And so my self stack became sort of that.

Lauren McDuffie [00:13:09]:

I think for me, it's been motivating because my own traffic on my website has grown exponentially over the last year, really, year, maybe year and a half, and that keeps me in the game. But I do sometimes wonder and I had someone ask me just last week about, another factor, which is AI is now a part of things as well too, which is so intimidating and it makes me wonder, is that where people are just going to stop, you know, for all of their their recipes? And are we gonna become obsolete? I don't know. It's scary actually to think about it. But but I have some very, very dear friends who are full time food bloggers and are very helpful resources for me and have taught me a lot about SEO, so I which is search engine optimization, and it's sort of how to play the game with Google so that you get your content in front of all the people out there who are googling things all the time. And it keeps me inspired and motivated when I talk to other people who have found real success in this. But I don't know. To your question, it is a little bit nerve wracking and and scary to think about what's gonna happen 5 years from now. I don't really know, but I just know that I enjoy doing it and I I'm enjoying the little wins and little successes that I'm seeing month to month right now, and that's keeping me going.

Lauren McDuffie [00:14:27]:

And and the books, like you said, you know, I don't know many people who write cookbooks to get rich, but, it's a wonderfully legitimizing thing to have. I love having a tangible representation of of my work, and it's it's just I I love them. I love that I've that I've done them, and it's it's valuable in other ways that aren't necessarily monetary. And and it all kind of works together as this little food machine and who knows exactly where it's going, but I I'm confident and optimistic that it'll still be, there's still a place for our blogs and recipe websites.

Stephanie [00:15:01]:

Well and to your point, I think what is also happening, which is sort of in your wheelhouse, I don't consider myself a writer. My husband actually is a writer, So I'm pretty careful about what that looks like in that space. I am a 300 words or less person. I am a bullet pointed list. I just that's how I think, and that's what works for me. But to your point, if you have, like, talent in the writing space and having your own personal points of view, I do think that there's always gonna be room for that where people align with your vision or your values or your lifestyle choices, and they get to know you and they wanna be more in your world?

Lauren McDuffie [00:15:44]:

Hope so. Yeah. I think so too. I really do. That that human element of the equation is special, and I think people like it. It's it's a really nice thing. And so I'm hoping in fact, you know, I've actually made a commitment to invest more into the writing in my website even though I'm not telling you a story about my life anymore.

Stephanie [00:16:05]:

Right. But you

Lauren McDuffie [00:16:06]:

can still weave your voice into how you explain food. You know, most of my my blog posts, I don't even really call it a blog anymore. It really is more of a recipe website, but there's still tons of words in there. And you could pick and choose which words you use, and I try to make mine as useful, but also entertaining and worth people's time to read, and that's one way you can separate yourself from the bazillions of other people who are doing the same thing. So

Stephanie [00:16:32]:

Yeah. So I'm talking with Lauren McDuffie, and her book is Homadish. Couple of other things in your book specifically that I really loved. I I don't know. I I was, was thinking about this today. I was, doing a TV segment with a friend and there was a laundry guy on and he was talking about, know, the 5 things you need to have in your laundry room. And I thought, wow. You know, there's blogs and I've got, like, kitchen essentials and you really broke it down this in in your book, some things worth noting about what you should the 13 things you literally need to have in your kitchen.

Stephanie [00:17:10]:

I've never seen a list so small and so spot on. So good for you.

Lauren McDuffie [00:17:15]:

Thank you. Yeah. I, I that list came to be because I was photographing the book, and, I realized I have I have rooms filled with props and things that I've used for years because I work as a food photographer and a stylist. But in, you know, in the name of keeping things real and, authentic, I just used the stuff that I genuinely cook with in my real life. So, yeah, it made it it made it very clear that you don't need a lot. I love minimalism. It makes me feel good, and so I wanted to kinda capture that.

Stephanie [00:17:47]:

Yeah. So it was a cutting board, a chef's knife, a large deep lidded pot, a large skillet, a medium lidded pot, large baking sheets, a muffin pan, which I might argue with you on the muffin pan.

Lauren McDuffie [00:17:58]:

Yeah. Yeah. I know. I had to sneak that in because there's 2 recipes in my book that require it.

Stephanie [00:18:03]:

Okay. Alright. A Dutch oven, a grater, a can opener, a large spatula or spoon, a blender, or and a strainer. And and, like, I guess because the one thing that the muffin pan is is you can't replicate a muffin pan, really.

Lauren McDuffie [00:18:17]:

Well, that's true. Well and I think, specifically, I was just trying to say that you can literally make every single thing in this book with just these 13 things, but I'd be willing to stretch that and say you could probably get by with cooking a lot more for a lot longer with just these things. You really don't need I mean and you're right. The muffin pan is very unique to the to the book. But, yeah, I I think in general, less is more. I'm not a big, single use kitchen tool person. I used to be, but we have moved so much. Like, my family, we've moved a lot, and that'll make a minimalist out of you.

Lauren McDuffie [00:18:52]:

Yeah. It had it had me. So, yeah, I wanted to weave that notion into this book because I think it's kind of

Stephanie [00:18:58]:

refreshing. So do you have an instant pot or a slow cooker?

Lauren McDuffie [00:19:01]:

I do have a slow cooker because I love them. They're so helpful, and I love a slow cooked thing. Like, we're getting into that season now, so mine's like, I've just dusted it off and it's ready to go. But, yeah, I I don't have an instant pot, and I'm sure I would like it. I mean, I'm sure I would like an air fryer. I don't have that either, and I I know people love them. But that's just me probably being resistant to one change. And then also, you know, if we move again, that's another thing I'm gonna have to pack and unpack.

Lauren McDuffie [00:19:31]:

So

Stephanie [00:19:32]:

Yeah. You don't need a air fryer. And the only thing I would say about the Instant Pot is the pressure cooking aspect is really nice, and it's a slow cooker too. Oh, yes. But there's something kinda homey about your ceramic slow cooker. You know?

Lauren McDuffie [00:19:49]:

Yes. And I love just I love a Dutch oven, like, old school just but I also work from home, and so I'm here to to do that. But for I used to not work in my house, and I loved a slow cooker because it just it made everything so easy.

Stephanie [00:20:04]:

Yes.

Lauren McDuffie [00:20:04]:

Yeah.

Stephanie [00:20:06]:

So as you're thinking about food trends and kind of new products, like, one of the, you have a recipe that's kinda like this. You know, we went through a shakshuka phase.

Lauren McDuffie [00:20:18]:

Yes.

Stephanie [00:20:19]:

Mhmm. Are there any, like, trends that you're seeing on the horizon that you're like, oh, I need to simplify that?

Lauren McDuffie [00:20:28]:

That's that's a great question. I well, one trend that I've literally been working on just this morning is I'm really obsessed with chili crisp, which is something I see all over the place. I like spice. And so I've been trying to think of ways in fact, I just shared in my, I think I shared in my news letter, or I'm getting ready to, ways to kind of make your own but using a store bought one as your just like with homemade ish, using it as a launch pad. So I took a chili crisp that I bought, from maybe Trader Joe's, and I turned it into a southern style chili crisp by adding something like candied pecans and a little apple cider vinegar and, like Yum. Like, so it it and brown sugar, I think, or or molasses is what it was. But, anyways, I southernized, an already store bought product, which is very much what this book is sort of all about. But I keep seeing chili crisp everywhere, and it makes me so happy because I love it.

Stephanie [00:21:23]:

I really wanna put that on a white bean or cauliflower or puree. I'm just hearing you talk about it.

Lauren McDuffie [00:21:30]:

That's the perfect idea. Yeah. That would be fun.

Stephanie [00:21:33]:

Do you like, some of the as I look at cookbooks Mhmm. Sometimes I see, like, that and this is why I'm probably not a very prolific person when I do this. I kind of plot along. Like, oh, I'm gonna make, you know, this, double stuffed something. And then they find 12 other ways to make the same thing, but just with different twists on it. Do you think like that?

Lauren McDuffie [00:22:01]:

I think I do now, but that's because I have to think strategically about how I publish recipes on and on my website, at least, because that's very that's very useful just for getting views and getting people. It's funny how how my brain splits into when I'm writing recipes for a book. It's a very different it's much freer, actually, creatively. But then, to your question, when I'm working on coming up with recipes for my, for my website, yeah, if I can split something off and offer variations, that serves me really well. So, yeah, I think my brain does work that way. Yeah. The more the merrier.

Stephanie [00:22:39]:

Yeah. And and I know I I'm always like, there's a reason people are doing it like this. And

Lauren McDuffie [00:22:44]:

Yeah.

Stephanie [00:22:44]:

I'm not doing it like that, but I know there's a reason why people are. And it never occurred to me that it was due to SEO, but that makes total sense.

Lauren McDuffie [00:22:52]:

Yeah. That's why I would do it at least. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie [00:22:56]:

Are there other cookbook authors that inspire you or that like, books that you just will never take off your shelf considering that you've moved, so you've probably pared down?

Lauren McDuffie [00:23:05]:

Yes. I really have. I donated some books that I'd worn pretty well. But, yes. I, I love Alison Roman's books. I I just I think the well, her food is a lot like the food that I just cook for myself, on any given day because it's very simple. It's nothing more than it needs to be, and I like that. But I really respect and appreciate anybody that truly innovates and carves out their own style.

Lauren McDuffie [00:23:32]:

That's really hard to do. I mean, I live in this very saturated world of, you know, recipe development and food. And so anytime someone comes along and has a very distinct and sort of fresh feeling, point of view, I just think that's great. I admire that. At it. Yeah. She's good at that. She's she's done that for herself.

Lauren McDuffie [00:23:50]:

So she's the first person that came to mind. And and I have her books. They're sitting out, and they have been for a long time. So yeah. Yeah. I love her.

Stephanie [00:23:59]:

When you is there, like, a classic recipe that you just find yourself coming back to that's maybe from your blog that you just love and

Lauren McDuffie [00:24:09]:

Yeah. I always say my, my most, I guess, well loved and well worn recipe, it's, I love Cajun and Creole, Cuisine, and I've got just this etouffee recipe that I have been making for a really, really long time, that's got shrimp and and chicken and andouille, and it's just so good. I've made it for, I think, everyone that has ever come to my house. It's just so tasty, and it tastes better the longer that it sits. Anything that can check that box, I'm gonna automatically be a fan of. But but I think that's my all time favorite, and I love, like, a Cocoa Van, as well. In fact, I'm sitting here today working on chicken stew collection, for my website, and that's just my favorite, I think, category of of food just in general. But my all time favorite would be the this like an etouffee, like a spicy one.

Lauren McDuffie [00:24:59]:

Yeah. I love them, and I make them all the time. So

Stephanie [00:25:02]:

Yeah. And that is super southern too. Like Yep. Something that you know, sometimes I think, like, oh, do I even need to, like, tell someone a recipe for this? Like, some of it seems so obvious.

Lauren McDuffie [00:25:15]:

Oh, sure.

Stephanie [00:25:15]:

That is something and and I guess you get accustomed. Like, I can make gravy like nobody's business. Yeah. Sure. But I you know, in the Midwest, we had grew up with gravy on everything, so it's Yeah. Sort of unique.

Lauren McDuffie [00:25:28]:

And appreciate that. I know. I I forget sometimes how, I I assume things are just, so easy and you don't need recipes for things, but then I'll have friends who just are like, Lauren, no. That's why I wrote this book. They're just like, you know, I don't know what I'm doing. My brain doesn't work that way. And so I always equate it to the way that I am with gardening. I don't know how to do anything with plants at all.

Lauren McDuffie [00:25:51]:

I'm so ignorant, and so I always just try to remember, like, how I am with plants is how some people are with cooking. It's just not your you wanna do it, but you just aren't super well versed in. So

Stephanie [00:26:01]:

yeah. Alright. Well, I'm gonna put a link to the book, obviously, homemade ish, in the notes here. I will also, remind me of the name of your blog again.

Lauren McDuffie [00:26:12]:

It's called my kitchen little, and so it's just my kitchen little dot com.

Stephanie [00:26:15]:

It's cute. And then, I'll find your substack, and I'll link to it too. Great. And we'll go from there. But it was really lovely to spend time with you. I Right. Really think the book is clever. I felt like I knew right away people in my life that would really get a lot out of this.

Lauren McDuffie [00:26:33]:

Good to hear.

Stephanie [00:26:34]:

And, it's beautifully shot, which is also I really admire that because I'm over here with my stupid iPhone, but it's, it's beautifully shot. It looks great, and I would recommend that people buy it. I when I really sat down with it and went through the recipes, I liked it very much. It's homemade ish. Recipes and cooking tips that keep it real. And I liked your 13 things you need in the kitchen probably minus the muffin pan.

Lauren McDuffie [00:27:01]:

That's fair. That's fair. I get it. Alright. Thanks, Lauren. Thank you so much.

Stephanie [00:27:06]:

Okay. We'll talk soon. Bye bye.

Lauren McDuffie [00:27:13]:

Bye bye.

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