Changing Attitudes One Street at a Time

Encouraging Abilities Podcast

The City of Vancouver is making strides with its Accessibility Strategy. DDA chats with the city's Accessibility Planner, Karen Lai who offers perspectives from her lived experiences.

TRANSCRIPT

Changing Attitudes One Street at a Time

00:06

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Developmental Disabilities Association's Encouraging Abilities podcast. I am your host, DDA Communications Manager, Evan Kelly. Joining me today is the City of Vancouver's Accessibility Planner, Karen Lye. Karen has worked in accessibility and inclusion consultation for over 20 years.

00:25

Now as someone with cerebral palsy, Karen brings a lived experience to her work and an understanding of the limitations that society places on people with disabilities. She has previously done work which helped some people with disabilities integrate into workplaces. She runs her own consulting firm where she ran workshops and developed budgets for inclusion initiatives and worked with many non-profits to improve their accessibility. She holds a master's degree in human kinetics from UBC

00:55

2020 award by the YWCA of Metro Vancouver. So thanks for joining me today, Karen. Thank you for the invitation. Now, we'll get to inclusion and accessibility in a moment, but tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah. Thank you. I was born and raised in Vancouver and I

01:21

have been doing much work in improving accessibility. That's what I do for work. But at the same time, I am very...

01:41

hanging out in the outdoors with my friends and going the long bike ride with my bike. But yeah, I've been in the field of inclusion and accessibility for well over 20 years, and I'm continually learning about this area.

02:11

So in sort of in a nutshell, Karen, what does accessibility mean to you? Well, accessibility means to me, it's more than the built environment. It's that once you get in the door, are you able to feel like your decisions matter? Like do you have a role in the decision making?

02:39

Do you have a role in the workplace? Is it more than just physically getting in the door? It's...

02:52

It's getting you what role to play in the larger game of community. Yeah, that's just it. I mean, it's it's, you know, that whole thing. Nothing about us without us, you know, making sure that that anything that is created accessible is created from those with disabilities, their point of view.

03:21

Right, right. And it's also about do you feel valued? Do you feel belong? And it's not just about your own physical space. It's also do you have an opportunity to go in other people's houses, but closer and closer. So, um, it's also

03:51

and accessibility from a community perspective, not just at the places where you move around, but do you have the ability to go over to a friend's place or whatever, because those need to be accessible as well.

04:18

Yeah, like everything. And you know, I've been talking a lot about accessibility with with other people on this podcast and how even businesses need to be more accessible because if you can't get people into your store, you're not selling as much as you can. There's a huge motivation for businesses just by themselves to be accessible to everyone. Totally. Yeah.

04:47

I agree. Now, I took a little line from your LinkedIn page. You say inclusion is a two way street. Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah, I think we all have a role to play in advocating. The one individual that knows me the best.

05:16

is myself. Though I have a role to play in telling others what kind of needs I have, what support I need, how do you work with me, though that's my role. And if the other people's role is to create a culture of

05:43

welcomeness. You allow me to tell you what I need. There is a two-way street in that we both need to work together to create an environment where we all can work well together, though we both have a role to play.

06:09

And how do you think that conversation is going over the, you know, when you look back on your life and what you've managed to accomplish, to accomplish in spite of a disability, do you think that conversation, you know, with people like me who don't identify with a disability, do you think that conversation is getting better? Do you think the messages are getting out there? Do you think the support is improving?

06:35

I think as a body, physical activity, physical sensibility, it's relatively well. It's not perfect. But I think we have a long way to go in terms of attitude, in terms of accepting the culture. It is.

07:04

about shifting the culture, slowing down your peace. We live in such a fat, big world. And in slowing down and really building that relationship, and really getting to know people and connecting with people. Yeah, I think it's...

07:34

It's growing, it's increasing in small increments. And it also depends on the person as well. We're all human beings with so much complexity to each individual. We carry so many complex identities.

08:02

And it changes from people to people. Now going back, you did your studies in human kinetics, and you've got a master's in that from UBC. How did that alter the way you view your own disability?

08:20

Um, I think it advanced this because I really thought, uh, before I did my master's, I really struggled with the word inclusion and what it means to feel included. And, um, I, I really believed that inclusion was about

08:50

putting everyone in one room, no matter what their disability is, and just building a program from that, from one room. But because we, because in this best, I learned from my master's,

09:13

about intersectionality and how we're so complex beings that putting everyone in one room is not inclusive. Because how can you have one program that meets every person's needs?

09:43

and not but the book that i would want program meeting and but the uh... no i think included and they're very happy in did that uh... i'm and that that included in that map long contract then what

10:12

in and around that does make that a much, much more complex thing. But you know, sort of going back to accessibility, which is, you know, what you like to talk about is the idea of...

10:26

universal design. Now you just mentioned that inclusion can be a very individual thing. If we're talking about accessibility, do you think universal design is really possible or can we just only hope to get as close as we can?

10:45

I think there's so much more work that can be done, but that's just a baseline. Universal Design, I don't think... I mean, what is an accessible city? I don't even know what that means, because...

11:09

And acceptable study can mean one thing to me and one thing to a different person. So I think a universal design is a good goal to reach too, and then we need to do more. So we should be a little bit realistic about that, I guess. Yes, yes, absolutely.

11:37

Now I want to ask you something else before we start getting into you know your work with the city is I don't know what is it adventure therapy and what does it offer that other kinds of therapies don't. And then the power of the outdoor. So what what one could then learn from being on a outdoor trip.

12:06

There's so much I used to do with adaptive kayaking, adaptive skiing, where people with disabilities or other ones can gain confidence by being in the outdoors. There's something better about being in the outdoors.

12:36

where you learn new skills and you learn how to create new opportunities. Just from being creative and working beyond their box. And you learn, you always learn something new from being in the outdoors.

13:04

and with each other. So that's what a best friend film would be me.

13:13

And you find that more, you know, for someone with a disability, is that a more effective therapy than other things you've done? It definitely did... did one thing for my life. I won't be the other people's life. It definitely brought out...

13:42

new perspective of how I defined my own disability and how I determined new ways of learning about myself and about my own disability with the power of the outdoors.

14:08

Sounds good. That sounds really good. I think we see a lot of different.

14:14

things now in the outdoors and it's just so nice to see even the outdoors, not just buildings we build that are becoming more inclusive for everybody. But now switching to the City of Vancouver where you find yourself, like a number of other municipalities across Canada right now, they're developing accessibility strategies. DDA, we've got a member of our staff who's involved in Vancouver's consultation process. The strategy, as I understand, is now in its second stage.

14:43

So tell me how and why this whole accessibility strategy came about. Well, so firstly, the provincial BV government passed the Accessible BV Act back in 2021.

15:07

where it mandated all of the prescribed organizations, meaning municipalities, to meet three requirements. Do you have an accessibility plan? Do you have an

15:35

Vancouver was one of the first municipalities to start inventability conservation way before the Inventable BC Act came into place. It was directed from council in 2018.

16:01

to develop an accessibility strategy. And it's also mandated as to put together an accessibility task force. And it is made up of people with lived experience with from

16:28

two of council committees and then the task force would guide the development of the accessibility

16:56

We developed the Phase 1 of the accessibility strategy, and now we're working on Phase 2. So what was the goal of Phase 1?

17:13

do highlight eight different focus areas and also do create a comprehensive citywide accessibility

17:44

You look at the built environment, housing, communication from an accessibility lens. It was divided into eight different focus areas and they range from built environment, transportation, housing, information and communication.

18:12

employment, government and engagement, capacity and collaboration, and then advocacy and working with other orders of government along with other agencies. So those are the eight different focus

18:43

um, game with high level access to the item to increase accessibility. Now, is that mainly to provide, um, guidelines for, for, um, city staff and city infrastructure, or is it really to make sure that, that we've got bricks and mortar and, and making physical changes to things?

19:13

Is it really both? And then faith do is kind of building the multi-year action plan. So we don't really know how, what are the details of each action item. And that will come later on in the faith. But mainly it's a guide of where they...

19:40

where departments are working towards, he increased accessibility in the city of Vancouver. Now, you know, even just going back a little bit, I know you're working on this accessibility strategy, parts one and two. Where do you see room for improvement in the city of Vancouver's approach to accessibility?

20:08

I've been, you know, city of Vancouver and we have done so many things to increase visibility, but at the same time, we have a long way to go. And it's creating that consciousness of automatically thinking about people with disabilities.

20:38

and how we do our engagement, how we do our design of buildings, how we design blubber

21:03

Now, so I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of this just comes down to prevailing attitudes about people with developmental or disabilities of any kind really, that somehow they're less, that they're not worthy of taking these things into current consideration. Would you say that's correct?

21:23

It depends on the people, you know, and yes, I think we have a long way to go in attitudes and changing the narrative of people with disabilities, but we have done a lot in terms of...

21:46

I think we have a new back training of disability awareness. We are getting there, but we have a long way to go. Now, say the city of Vancouver granted you an unlimited budget and total creative control. What's a dream project you would love to undertake? I would really love to do...

22:16

work with the ultimate change maker.

22:24

How do we build a culture of vulnerability and meet people where they're at? You know, and you talk about attitudes, you talk about people thinking less than or ableism. And I would really love to work with senior leaders in terms of

22:53

How do we really and truly embed a culture of kindness, a culture of vulnerability, so that it would trickle down to how we automatically think of everyone?

23:16

Mm-hmm. That's a big mountain to move, I think. Don't do it. Don't do it. And so, in your work advocating for inclusion, what approach do you take towards people who are resistant or skeptical to some of these changes?

23:38

You know, I like to meet people with curiosity. And I like to say, you know why? And then come up with a mind of wonder and say, why are there some aspects you don't like, or what is it that makes you think?

24:06

like this because we could never we could never assume why they are listed this

24:30

So right now are there any city of Vancouver projects you're particularly excited about outside of the accessibility strategy? Well, I don't really know how to answer that because accessibility strategy is my main project. So I can't really tell you what my other projects are.

25:00

And disability is all that I do. But I do enjoy working with other departments. I do enjoy working with them to shift their narrative of people with disabilities and working with other departments.

25:26

Do you have any final thoughts on accessibility and how Vancouver and British Columbia in general is doing when it comes to accessibility? You know, having been born and raised here and having a very, you know, limited experience in terms of travel.

25:54

And golden to me, I think Vancouver, city of Vancouver is on the right track. Um, we have a long way to go, but, um, I think slowly but surely.

26:15

Yes, and I think attitudes here are typically a little bit better than other parts of the world, from what I've seen. But on a more deeper personal level, do you feel included here? I worked really hard to develop a community of friends. And...

26:45

family, you feel included. I've worked really hard in terms of myself and where my disability falls and how my disability plays out in my own life. So speaking for me, I've worked

27:13

really hard to do that. And then from how I turned my disability in my own life, I could build a community that I still included. That took a long time to do that.

27:40

So now I feel like it's just a long time. So I want to thank you for joining us today and talking about some exciting things you're working on with the city of Vancouver.

27:53

You have been listening to DDA's Encouraging Abilities podcast. Our guest today you're listening to is Karen Lai. She's the accessibility planner with the City of Vancouver, where she's making great strides in improving inclusion and accessibility for the disability community here in British Columbia. Karen, thank you so much for joining me today.

28:14

You're welcome. And it was a great opportunity to come here today. Thank you very much. I'm Evan Kelly, DDA Communications Manager. We'll see you next time.