Ep 87 Potentialist Joanna Bloor

Midlife Mixtape

“Figure out your ball”: In her work as “aspiring Fairy Godmother”, tech startup veteran Joanna Bloor talks about uncovering your unique magic, why “adventure timelines” are better than resumes, and channeling her inner Bette Midler.

• Joanna’s website Joanna Bloor
• Joanna working with Fatima to create magic – video
• Joanna’s live show every Friday talking about the Future of the Human Workplace and how you can rock your place in it. Tickets Here
• FIGURE 8 VOYAGE – 4 Oceans, 2 Circumnavigations, 1 Guy, 1 Year – Alone.
• Sign up for Joanna’s newsletter here.

No sequins but this is a damn ‘80s delight

Thanks as always to M. The Heir Apparent, who provides the music behind the podcast – check him out here! ***This is a rough transcription of Episode 87 of the Midlife Mixtape Podcast. It originally aired on November 24, 2020. Transcripts are created using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and there may be errors in this transcription, but we hope that it provides helpful insight into the conversation. If you have any questions or need clarification, please email [e-mail] ***

Joanna Bloor 00:00

“Who do you want to be when you grow up?” is a question that never ends. The fact that we stop asking people at like, what, 10? I think it’s crazy. I think we should ask people all the time.

00:12

Welcome to Midlife Mixtape, The Podcast. I’m Nancy Davis Kho and we’re here to talk about the years between being hip and breaking one.

[THEME MUSIC – “Be Free” by M. The Heir Apparent]

Nancy Davis Kho 00:36

Hi listeners – I just want to take a moment at the top of this Thanksgiving Week episode to express my thanks to all of you for listening to the Midlife Mixtape Podcast! It’s gratifying to know that my loyal listeners are as interested in the insights from a grab bag of interesting people “in the years between being hip and breaking one” as I am – and I look forward to bringing that #relatablecontent to your ears in the months to come. Wishing you and your loved ones a safe and happy Thanksgiving in whatever form that takes in 2020 – go back and listen to Ep 86 with Epidemiologist Dr. George Rutherford if you need a reminder of just how to do that – and thank you for tuning in to the show!

[MUSIC]

Hello, Gum Drops. I start most of my episodes with some variation on “Hi Guys,” but I recently saw an Instagram post encouraging us to drop that word in favor of less gendered, more inclusive nouns, and Gum Drops was one of them, which tells me that literally anything goes. So, in the future, prepare yourself to be addressed as Pet Rocks, Pop Rocks, and Bands that Have Been Overlooked by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Before I introduce today’s guest, I want to invite you to listen all the way to the end because it’s almost time for another Listener Contributed Episode – this one will be the final episode of the year. I want to collect YOUR stories and I’ll tell you the topic towards the end of the show.

When I first connected with today’s guest I was immediately struck by her optimism and positivity. We were talking about recording an episode for October, but it occurred to me: she could be my post-election insurance policy. If things hadn’t broken the way we hoped, I realized she might be the one person who could walk us back from the abyss with her focus on future and potential. What a THRILL to realize, when I recovered from our front yard post-election victory party on Nov 7, that the future and potential we’d be discussing was even brighter. I mean, the vaccines are coming and Stephen Miller, don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

My guest today is Potentialist and Aspiring Fairy Godmother Joanna Bloor. Joanna believes that it’s time for us humans to rethink how we take on the modern working world. The what, where, when, and how of work is changing, a shift that technology and business have embraced yet people haven’t.

Joanna’s on a mission to help us prepare for the big leap into the working future. To identify and articulate our human value and our place in the next chapter of the working world. And while we’re at it, have a great time in the process.

A perpetual adventurer and self-described “startup junkie,” Joanna spent her early career scaling and building brands like Ticketmaster, Cars.com, OpenTable, and Pandora. (I love Pandora. Oh, let me give you a tip! Chubb Rock station on Pandora. If you’re having a party and you need a playlist that’s just going to keep people grooving at the right speed, Chubb Rock station on Pandora, and I thank my friend Dave LaDuc for giving me that tip.)

Back to Joanna Bloor! Known for building teams, infrastructure, and revenue strategies through their moments of accelerating growth and rapid change, Joanna did so in environments where there were no rule books, no career paths, no precedents of how things “should” be done. Joanna’s a veteran of playing in the undefined future.

Then life threw a surprise at her, and she found herself at the beginning of a new adventure. The new journey led to a fateful conversation in line at the TED 2016 Conference that planted the idea for everything you see today and the idea that every one of you IS awesome and “that we just need to tell everyone else.”

So, dust off your dress, Cinderella, and let’s hear how Joanna can help us get to the ball.

Nancy Davis Kho

Welcome to the Midlife Mixtape Podcast, Joanna Bloor! I’m so happy to have you here today.

Joanna Bloor 04:21

Thank you so much for having me too. I’m excited to be here.

Nancy 04:24

When you and I first connected a couple of months ago, we were like, “Let’s wait until after November 3 to have this conversation.” So, I’m so glad we have positive happy things to talk about with you. But of course, the first question on the Midlife Mixtape Podcast is always: What was your first concert, Joanna? And what were the circumstances?

Joanna 04:43

I will never forget it because it was in the Houston Astrodome. And it was Madonna’s True Blue concert, where I had second row seats. Talk about setting the bar high for your first concert.

Nancy 04:58

Oh, my goodness. How old were you?

Joanna 05:01

Oh, I can’t even… I probably was, what, 16 or 17. A teenager.

Nancy 05:05

But you’re not born and raised in Houston.

Joanna 05:07

No. And I didn’t even live in Houston at the time. No, I emigrated from the southeast coast of England to Central Texas. So, just south of Austin.

Nancy 05:18

Not much of a culture change there.

Joanna 05:20

Just a little bit.

I joke with people, when they go, “Gosh, was it different?” and I say, “Think about just the construct of school.” I went to a school in England that can only be described as Hogwarts without boys or magic, to Friday Night Lights. And every stereotype in your head that you can imagine for both of them were 100% true, like the uniforms and the properness of the Hogwarts experience and the oldness of the building. And then the cheerleaders and football and that whole thing in Texas.

Nancy

Your head must have been spinning.

Joanna

Basically, the only rules that were still true when I moved to Texas were: Be a nice person, and don’t do illegal things. And the “don’t do illegal things” only happened because my stepfather, without, I think him knowing what he was doing, told me that if I committed a felony, got caught doing something naughty, that they would send me back to England.

And what he didn’t know at the time was I landed in Texas, and within about 20 seconds was like, “Oh my God, this country is amazing. I want to stay here!” I missed England very, very much and my dad was still there. And my friends, I had a lot of friends still there. But I took to the United States like a duck to water. I was like, “Oh my god, this is where I was supposed to be all the time!” And I had a lot of fun. But I was pretty good girl in the same process.

Nancy 06:46

You toed the line because you knew he was going to take you to the airport.

Joanna 06:49

I did! Because I was like, “I don’t want to go to jail.” That would have been a bad thing.

Nancy 06:53

I’m curious, what was it that you loved so much when you were 16 about America? What struck you?

Joanna 06:59

Oh, so much. So much. And it’s still, even now, part of why, even with all of the stuff that I go, “Oh my god, really?” that I still love this country. God, do sound like some sort of crazy patriot or what?

Nancy 07:13

But in a really good way! Tell me more.

Joanna 07:16

It’s this idea of possibility. I even call myself a Potentialist here. I remember when I very first moved to Texas, I got two very clear messages very, very quickly. One was, “Well, we just think you’re awesome because of the way you talk.” I was like, “Really? “

Nancy

Who doesn’t like a British accent?

Joanna 07:36

Yeah, I was like, “This is insane.” And I was like, “Well, if you think I’m fabulous because of the way I talk, well then, awesome. And I’m gonna run with this.”

But I was like, “This is fantastic.” Because I went to a very fabulous, very smart, very academic school in England and I was mediocre at best – although I shone talentwise in the theatre arts when I was there, but that was very much looked down upon because it was a bit too out there. You know, my husband periodically calls me Joanna Jazz Hands, because I’m all “ta DA!” about everything. And it was it was really frowned upon. In the UK, there’s a concept there called “tall poppy syndrome,” where you’re not allowed to stand out too much.

I came to Texas and they were like, “Well, you can be as fabulous as you want to be.” Now, I will caveat that if you are not thoughtful about that, you will absolutely get judged by people. That didn’t go away. But there was this whole idea of, “You can be whoever it is you want to be,” with the addition of “You can also completely change direction midflight.” I had such an understanding…well, I did and I didn’t as a teenager, but this “What path am I on? What am I supposed to do?” was pretty rigid in the UK. When I was in the equivalent of sixth grade, my teachers sat down with my parents. And they like, “Joanna should study commercial art. And she’s going to become a commercial artist.” And I was like, “Wait, what?” which still baffles me a bit to this day.

Then I came to the US, and this is universal across the US, they were like, “Well, you could be whoever it is you want to be.” And I say that even today. Like if I got on this podcast and I said, “Nancy, I know I was telling you I was doing XYZ yesterday, but I’ve decided to become a plastic surgeon. This is my midlife decision.” You would probably go, “Wow, that’s a really interesting choice!” And you might even, in your own head say, “Hmm, isn’t she a tiny bit old for something like that?” But in general, most Americans will come back and go, “That’s awesome, right on, go you for doing something really big and bold and brave!”

That opportunity to say, “I want to be something completely different!” does not exist anywhere else in the world that I’ve seen, not the attitude of it. And you can figure out how to do that and really just completely change your trajectory is something that is really unique to the culture in this country. And everybody talks about freedom in such dramatic ways here, and I sit here and I go, “THAT’S the freedom that I hang on to in a big way, this actual I-can-choose-who-the-future-me-is-going-to-be.” And it doesn’t come with a whole bunch of baggage.

And I was reminded, I was in Venice pre-pandemic for one of my oldest friends, a British friend, for her 50th birthday. And I was chatting with her older brother and his wife, who I’ve known since I was a little kid. And they were asking me about what I do now, and the fact that I left corporate America and built my own company, etc., etc. And they were like, “Where did you go to get a certificate for what it is you do?” That was the question. And I looked at them. And I was like, “Oh, my God, British people.” I make the certificate for what I do. I created it. It’s my stuff. And they just couldn’t wrap their head around it.

Nancy 11:02

That’s very nice to hear, Joanna. For all you Americans listening, pat yourself on the back, reinventors, we’re still making it possible.

Joanna

Absolutely.

Nancy

And that, of course, is a perfect segue. Let’s talk about your job as a Fairy Godmother/Potentialist. What is that job? What do you do?

Joanna 11:21

Well, why don’t I talk about the Potentialist piece first, because people are like, “What?”

I learned the lesson as a teenager that basically all the rules were there to be questioned. My entire career has been driven by my curiosity of tomorrow. And a lot of that has been driven by technology, and what is its possibility. And that was really the first driving force of my professional career. But what I realized very, very quickly, especially as I got known for being the person in a company, and I worked for a lot of different startups, many of which I’m sure people have heard of – Open Table, Pandora, etc. – part of what my job was there, not only in how to build the infrastructure of tomorrow, but was also to bring the people along. And that if you didn’t bring the people along to tomorrow, then it didn’t matter how awesome the thing was you built, it would fall in its tracks.

I realized that as much as there’s this freedom thing that we just talked about, with the Americans, there’s such a narrative of “Follow the rules, and you’ll get an A, don’t follow the rules, and you’ll die.”

You think about both education and entertainment. What we’ve all been messaged is that there’s a correct way of doing something and that you need to do it exactly this way. And there’s this whole narrative of, “What is your career path? And where are you going?”

And I was like, “Wait a second, I haven’t followed a path a day of my life. Not that I change jobs every 20 minutes. But I was always like, “What is around the corner? What’s happening next?” And I was really like, “This whole path thing is not serving people.”

And even within my last jobs, I was known for going up to random people on my team and not randomly, but with absolute intent, and saying, “Gosh, you know, I watch you as you do things. And I see how you think, and your value is so much more about how you think, than what you do. Yes, what you accomplish and your ability to get something done is important for everybody. But that’s not why you are valuable, you are valuable because of your brain time in the future. And I see the potential of your brain time being utilized much more over in this other department over here. And so, I am now going to clear all of the roadblocks for you to go play with those guys over there. Because I think you will fit in better.”

And I lost count of the number of people who would come up to me and go, “Oh, my God, I had no idea I hated my job.” Or “I had no idea that I’d be really great at x or whatever it was.” And that, in combination with the very simple idea that every decision made about you and your opportunities is made in a room that you’re not in.

So in that scenario that I just described, I was the one, and the room in that scenario was my head, I was the one saying, “Well, this person should be over here because I think they would actually be better there.” I was like, “Hang on a second. Why isn’t this done for everyone?” I look at how we think about human beings in the workplace. And our marketing materials, for lack of a better term, the resume, how we talk about ourselves, how we think about who we are in the workplace, only talks about our past. We talk about our history; we don’t talk about our potential and the things that we can do.

And the reality is, and I throw this out to your audience, think about the last person you met. It can be anybody. What’s going on in both people’s heads when you’re meeting somebody is, “Who is this person and are there future shenanigans we can do with them?” 100% like, this is the conversation you and I had when we first met was like, “Is there an opportunity? And there’s been lots of opportunities for future shenanigans.” And it’s the future shenanigans that people actually care about.

There isn’t a product in the on the planet that we would talk about all of its features and its past the way we do with humans. Why aren’t we talking about the future? And so this whole Potentialist piece was really anchored in, I think, as people in the workplace, we should really start thinking about how to teach each other about our future selves, as much as our past selves, because both are important. What you’ve done and what you’ve accomplished shows credibility, but you’ve also got to show vision and future stuff. So why don’t we do that?

Because of the work that I’ve done, and because of the journey that I’ve taken, I have a weird innate ability to go, “Oh, you actually have the potential to do X!” is why I talk about the Potentialist.

The Fairy Godmother piece is completely anchored in the fact that the first time I saw Bette Midler – while I love Madonna – the first time I saw Bette Midler, I was like, “Oh, my God, I want to be her when I grow up.” The idea of running around in sequins of being a bit bawdy and the whole thing just appealed to me.

I’m also a big tech optimist. I love technology. And so, I was like, how can I grow up to be Bette Midler meets a technologist. And that’s been a bit of a drumbeat my entire life.

And a couple of things synergized this year, in that one of the other things that I am weirdly good at doing is chatting with almost anybody. Now, pre COVID, I actually used to stand on stage and pluck people out of the audience, and give them a transformative experience on just how to answer the question, “What do you do?” which is the first way we teach each other about ourselves,

Nancy 16:49

I’m going to leave some links in the show notes. And you can actually see Joanna doing this. The one I watched with a lovely young woman who worked in banking…

Joanna

Fatima!

Nancy

And also, I mean, when you talk about that Midler meets Tech, you do wear sequins.

Joanna 17:05

Well, this is the big win of 2020: I realized that the beginning of 2020, I was no longer going to be on stage, which is what 90% of my work was. Because while I’m a teacher of a concept, I am a performer at heart, which is where the sequins came in. But people were so sad at the beginning of the pandemic. And I was like, well, this is terrible.

So, I one of my first Zoom calls, I said, “Look, I’m gonna put on cocktail attire because it’ll make people laugh.” And it’s completely spun out of control. And so now, I wear sequins everywhere. And as I said, my win of 2020 is that because they’re costumes, I’m going to be able to write sequins off on my taxes this year, which is amazing.

Nancy 17:47

You and Bette Midler are the only two people. Oh, and Madonna. Obviously, Madonna.

Joanna 17:51

I think everybody should get to wear sequins when they want to.

But within the construct of the Fairy Godmother, my job is not only to help you see your potential, but my job also in this world of work is to help people transform how they present themselves, verbally, etc., etc., etc., almost kind of the “UI of you”, so that it makes it easy for other people how to say yes to the Future You.

I use the Fairy Godmother in Cinderella because I have absolute personal aspirations of doing this when I’m 80, and I will be on stage wearing a ball gown in sequins. I’m going to full on rock the Fairy Godmother; that woman is going to exist. I see it in my brain. But also, that you think about the moment that the Fairy Godmother in Cinderella meet in the movie: Cinderella was not broken. The Fairy Godmother never said, Oh, Cinderella, you need to change. She just said, “How do we get you to your ball? How do we get you there?” All she did was transform what Cinderella looked like in that scenario, so that when she showed up at the front gates, they didn’t say no.

Nancy 18:59

You talk about identifying, articulating, and amplifying your Future You and I’m struck when I watched you doing this on your videos and in your events, that it’s really about teaching people to tell a story about themselves and helping people identify what are the strands that other people will be interested in? What are the things that you want to talk about such that future opportunities will flow to you? Why is that so hard for us to do for ourselves?

Joanna 19:25

The layers! So, one…

Nancy 19:28

You calling me an onion?

Joanna 19:29

Yes, I’m calling everybody an onion. And that’s actually what’s beautiful.

The reality is, I believe without a shadow of a doubt, because I’ve done the Fatima transformation thousands of times, is that everybody has some unique magic in them. Everybody. And the challenge in all of this is actually to figure out what that thing is. And figure out what that thing is that serves the Future You.

So, I always come back to that first question of, “Why is it hard?” Well, it’s hard because you are teaching people who you are and what you’re all about. The introduction is just the first time. But you’re doing it all day every day. Every single conversation you have with somebody, you’re teaching them who you are.

Lots of people say, “Oh, Joanna, you are in the business of personal brand.” And I’m like, “Well, sure, except you already have one.” My job is actually to say, “Is your personal brand, the one you want to be showing for who you want to be?” Because the “Who do you want to be when you grow up?” is a question that never ends. The fact that we stop asking people at like, what, 10? I think it’s crazy. I think we should ask people all the time.

Who do you want to be when you grow up? Just because you’re 50 doesn’t mean you’re done. And I think we can continue to answer that question.

And if that’s true, then how do you tell the story that actually introduces who that next person could be. And it could be different from day to day to day. And there is such a narrative.

Again, I come back to this idea that we all hang on, especially for women, we all have to be a bit perfect. And especially as you get older, there’s a lot more to lose, and your risk tolerance goes down, and all of those sorts of things. And so, to be quite frank, the fear factor of coloring outside the lines when it comes to you is incredibly high. And what I find fascinating, and also heartwarming about humans, is this fear factor is universal. There are very, very few people I’ve met who aren’t like, “Oh, my God, but what will people say” So that that fear factor is the first one.

And so, and this is why I show up as the Fairy Godmother in sequins, a lot of what I’m actually doing is saying, “Look, I got you. Not only do I got you, but I see you and you’re awesome. And now I’m gonna put my hand at your back and just give you a little bit of a shove into this new space so that you can see that this new you is actually all it is.” Because I can tell you and teach you how to talk about yourself all day, every day, it’s literally my favorite thing to do. But if you don’t believe it, and don’t own it for yourself, it doesn’t matter how awesome I think you are; you have to own it. And so, there’s this fear factor.

The other thing that I think is fascinating is, because it is a combination of the personal you, it’s a combination of the professional you, and it’s combination of the Future You, that thing that is weirdly awesome about you, that is really valuable. Lots of people say, “Oh, Joanna, but I’m a really great strategic thinker, I’m really good at getting shit done, I’m a really good connector!” and I go, “Boring!” Because everybody is that. You know, if that’s what you want to be known for, I’m like, “Do better.” It’s our originality that we’re trying to look for.

The goal of the exercise is to find something recognizable enough that people are like, “Oh, I get that.” That’s the why part… but unique enough so that it doesn’t sound like everybody else. But it’s finding that. And the thing is, is that you have been living with who that person is your entire life. And like any, for lack of a better term, product… If you’ve been using something for a really, really long time, you don’t think it’s special.

Nancy 23:07

You lose sight of why you chose it in the first place.

Joanna 23:08

Yeah. I have lots of people who are like, “Oh, I can figure this out for myself.” And I’m like, “Sure, go ahead and give it a go.”

But the reality is, is you need that other person’s perspective to see the thing that you can’t see, because you’ve been with it all day. And because while it is all about you, it’s actually not about you at all. It’s actually about, how does somebody else react to you? I find it fascinating that when you see a selfie of yourself… no one really likes photographs of themselves. Because the picture is not a reflection of you. It’s actually the true you. Whereas what you see in the mirror every day is a reflection of you. And so when we see pictures of ourselves, we’re always like, “Oh, no, not so much!” Because we’re not actually used to seeing ourselves that way. And we have a similar sort of reaction when we talk about this stuff.

I’ll also add that culturally, based on your upbringing, or your gender, or your whatever, there’s also a lot of societal rules about not bragging about oneself, which is why then I have a whole construct that actually teaches you how to do that without sounding like you’re, you know, braggadocious jerk.

Nancy 24:17

Right. I hate writing a bio when people ask me to send one in, you know, but I want to come back to that because my first question. I’m going to play devil’s advocate here a little bit, but what would you say to someone who says, “Look, it’s hard at midlife to start something new or to contemplate moving into a new space because we have so much younger competition nipping at our heels. And during the pandemic when the job market has tanked. And there are more people than ever applying for jobs.” And maybe you’re in a job that you don’t love. But hey, it’s a paycheck and it’s 2020. So, you better stick with it.

What do you say to those people? And how do you encourage them to at least just start the process of thinking this way?

Joanna 24:59

Yeah. There’s so much to unpack there, we could have a whole other podcast on this. Because let me actually back up for a second.

So, first of all, I think this concept of teaching people about the Future You is not limited to people looking for a job or looking to pivot their careers. Because I have absolutely lost jobs, absolutely lost jobs, which I thought I was brilliant at. Because I forgot that every decision made about me was made in a room that I was not in. I was messaging, as an example, what I had accomplished. I was not messaging vision. And so, the decision makers in this particular scenario, were like, “Well, Joanna doesn’t have a vision anymore of the future.” And this is not an entry level job. This was a senior executive. And I forgot that I hadn’t messaged my vision. So, I lost my job.

I think about that in conjunction with… you know, I went through the Dot Com bust of the 2000s. And nobody teaches you how to lay people off, by the way, which is a whole other conversation too. But what we all had to do during that period was almost reaudition for our jobs.

And if you are in a scenario where there’s downsizing, etc., etc., then we’re all re auditioning, especially with the pandemic. There isn’t a company on the planet who hasn’t had to completely pivot how they do business. And so, we are all reauditioning. So I sit here and I go, “Look, you have to own that you are the CEO and founder of You, Inc. and the product that you are, in essence, loaning people is your time in the future.”

And so, for anybody, so yes, if you’re looking for a job, or if you’re thinking about pivoting, or you’re going through that. And let’s be real, there’s that moment in your 40s and 50s, where you especially, again, as a woman, you wake up and you suddenly look around, and you go, “Wait a second! This is it? What?”

Nancy 26:47

This is not my beautiful life!

Joanna 26:49

Suddenly your head comes up. It’s like a bunch of gophers that suddenly go, “Oh, hang on a second!” And you start to think about this stuff.

And I sit here, and I say, “Look, it doesn’t matter who you are, what your scenario is. In that transition, you have to own that your time is the thing that you are selling to people.” And so, the first question I always ask is, “What is the product? What is it you actually want to loan to people?” Whether you get paid for it or not is a whole different story. And again, a whole other podcast on how to get paid. But what is the product that you want to sell to people in this stage of your life, in this chapter of your book.

I always come back to, “Cinderella, what is your ball?” And for Cinderella, her ball was, “I want to go boogie with the prince.” It was not, “I want to get married” and so on.

And within that construct, what’s important to you? What does the Future You need for Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs? What does the Future You need intellectually? What does the Future You need for your impact? All of the things. Actually, have a conversation with yourself about who is it you want to be. It’s not that “I want to marry the prince” answer. It’s actually like, “What is the next step?”

And then sit down and have a really honest conversation with yourself and say, “Why is that valuable? What is the market value for what this is?”

And I so often hear, and I’m guessing this may annoy people a little, but I hear a lot of people say, “Well, I should get paid more, because I have more experience.” And I go, “Sure, absolutely. But are you sure that your customer, your ideal customer who is buying you, understands the value of it?” Just saying, “But I have lots of experience!” isn’t enough.

One of the things I say to a lot of the people I work with who are pivoting their career is in that purchase process of people – and people will start to get very uncomfortable when I say stuff like that. But in that purchase process, you’re trying to sell a product to a buyer who doesn’t understand how your product works.

You think about like, let’s say, for instance, I’ll give an example. You’re a lawyer, and you now want to move into operations. While you’ve been messaging for decades “lawyer, lawyer, lawyer, lawyer” and all of the value proposition of a lawyer. And operations is a new way of thinking. If I’m hiring for an operations person, I don’t understand how lawyer functionality is actually the same. Because there’s a lot of things that awesome lawyers do that are very similar to what operations does, but the language isn’t the same. I don’t know how to buy you. And so, your job, when you’re pivoting, is actually to translate who you are and what you’re all about and those value things to the job that they actually want somebody to do. And you have to almost bridge that. Is it harder? Yes. Is it exacerbated more because you are older? Yes. All of those things.

This gets into a whole conversation about all of the biases. Biases exist, whether we like it or not. And you can be as mad as you want all day about the biases, or you can take agency over it and actually teach people how to see you in your way. Because all bias is, in my opinion. is the ability to recognize potential. It is infinitely easy or to recognize potential when it looks like you and sounds like you. which then means that if you are other another…could be age, it could be gender, it could be skin color, it could be profession, then you have to work harder at it.

It’s why, and I absolutely go on record on this, I have a lot of black women that I work with Who. Are. The. Bomb. across the board. And what is universally true about all of them is they learned that incredibly painful lesson when they were preteens. And they come to me because they’re like, “Oh hang on a second, Joanna gives me an edge. Joanna helps me bridge that gap in a really powerful and personal way.” And so, I do a lot of work with black women because they’re like, “I get it,” because they’ve been living it their entire lives…

Nancy

Systematically underestimated.

Joanna

The rest of us have taken a little longer, myself included. It took me a little longer to figure that out. But now I can help, which is where I step in like, “Okay, how do we teach people about that?”

Nancy 31:08

We’re gonna have more with Joanna Bloor in a moment to talk about how we can identify, articulate and amplify our future selves. But first, a quick message from our sponsor.

The presenting sponsor of The Midlife Mixtape Podcast is the Amateur Music Network.

On this podcast, and in my life, I try to accentuate the positive. But sometimes I get just a little sad thinking about everything we’re missing out on because of the COVID pandemic.

Take singing. Maybe you used to sing in a church choir. Or in a community chorus, or just along with the crowd at a concert, like I did. Not happening now. No rehearsals, no group practice. Needless to say, no performances … unless you count singing in the shower.

That’s why I was happy to learn about Amateur Music Network, a Bay Area nonprofit that connects dedicated amateur musicians like me with professional mentors. And I am especially happy about Amateur Music Network’s new series, Singing Saturdays with Ragnar Bohlin, which takes place over six Saturdays from November 14 through December 19.

Ragnar Bohlin is the world-renowned director of the San Francisco Symphony Chorus, which has thrilled many audiences and made many glorious recordings. Ragnar has spent the pandemic in his native Sweden. But through the magic of Amateur Music Network and Zoom, he’ll be in your living room or your backyard, leading you and hundreds of other singers from around the world in an hour of focused singing every week. You’ll start with vocal warmups and then sing some of the most beautiful choral music ever written, with works by Beethoven, Mozart, and more.

OK, it can’t replace an in-person choir, and on Zoom nobody can hear you singing. But Ragnar’s unique ability to connect through the screen will have you feeling like you’re getting personal coaching from one of the very best. And with Amateur Music Network the focus is always on being together in a community of music-makers, even while we’re apart.

Sign up for Singing Saturdays by going to amateurmusic dot org slash workshops. https://amateurmusic.org/info/workshops/. And if you don’t sing, but do play a musical instrument, check out Amateur Music Network’s other online workshops. There’s something there for everyone who loves making music.

[MUSIC]

Nancy

Alright, we’re back with Fairy Godmother and Potentialist Joanna Bloor. And I want to ask you, is there one piece of advice that you have for people listening right now that they can do, right now, today to start communicating that Future You proposition and start moving towards where they want to be? Getting to the ball, as it were?

Joanna 33:33

Yeah, well, so the first one that I’ve said it a couple of times is: figure out your ball. What is the next chapter? And it doesn’t have to be perfect. You don’t have to have a complete vision and plan and have everything sorted out. Just have a bit of an idea.

I used myself as an example earlier. I have an absolute vision of what does 80-year-old me look like. She’s on stage. She’s in a ball gown and I have a wand. I have white hair, maybe even pink, not sure. But I see her, and I go, “That’s my ball.” That allows me to start thinking about what I need to get there.

And if that question seems too overwhelming, then the first thing you can do is actually go back to people that you professionally trust. And I say professionally because moms, siblings, dads…

Nancy 34:21

Not always the best sounding boards.

Joanna 34:24

…Your besties? While their intentions are amazing, and I think they play a very important role in your life, they generally don’t know the professional you and who that person is. Because they’ve got all sorts of awesome biases there.

But you go find somebody and you actually ask them the question, “Where could you see me, when you have seen me have impact in the past? Where do you see that for me in the future?” And go out and do some market research on yourself. It’s also a really delightful experiment.

One of the programs we actually have within my company is we actually help people go through the process of doing market research on themselves. And what I find endlessly fascinating is how worried people are about doing that. They’re like, “I can’t do that.” And I’m like, “Yes, you can. You absolutely can. Just ask this question. Go do it.”

And inevitably, what they come back with is complete surprise and delight, because what they learn almost immediately is there’s usually some consistent messaging, especially if they’ve asked more than one person. And there’s usually an insight that makes them go, “Wait, what?” and it really makes you feel good and helps you build your confidence. You’re actually getting feedback on who you are. And it’s about the future self, not the past self.

Nancy 35:42

It can be transformative. As you’re talking about this, I’m recalling a conversation I had when I first moved to San Francisco 22 years ago and was looking for work. And this headhunter took me out to lunch as a favor. Over the course of lunch, I explained where I’d worked and what I done. And she looked at me and she said, “Your value is that you are a go-between between technical people and non-technical people. You’re very good at translating the needs of one group to the other.” And just having somebody else articulate that to me, I was… first of all, I thought, “Oh, I am good at that!” And second, it really helped me focus my job search. And I continue to do that now in my in my day job, I really like playing that role. And I feel like I’ve got mastery of it. It can be so transformative to just have someone say, “Look. Look what I see in you.”

I want to make sure people know where to find you and all the great work that you’re doing. What’s the best place for people to go?

Joanna 36:41

Oh, I’m all over the place. I’m pretty prolific.

Nancy 36:44

Joanna Bloor Omnimedia!

Joanna 36:45

Just google Joanna Bloor and you will find me. On the website, if you actually want to find out how to engage with me on a professional sense to help you through your own…

Nancy 36:55

www.JoannaBloor.com.

Joanna 36:57

…your Cinderella, or CinderFella transformation, because yeah, the dudes need it just as much as the gals.

But I’m also really prolific on both Twitter and LinkedIn sharing ideas, many rants about how I think job descriptions and resumes just need to go away. They’re both terrible. They do not serve either party. And a bunch of other things. I also have a live show every Friday at noon pacific time, where I talk about different areas of this entire set of thinking like, “How do you how do you think about pricing?” This Friday I am talking about how, “I would like to pick your brain!” is rude and should be retired.

Nancy

Yes! Agreed.

Joanna

And how to ask that question in a much better way that also emphasizes why you are uniquely awesome, and all of those sorts of things. And so, you can see the Fairy Godmother in action on a computer screen near you every Friday at noon, and we do giveaways and all sorts of fun stuff there.

Nancy 38:01

And I’ll put the links into the show notes to make it easy for you listeners to get there.

One of the things I loved on your website, Joanna was that you have an Adventure Timeline of your life. So you guys should check this out, where she gives themes to different work phases or the different phases of her life like Searcher, Broke and Happy – which I love that because I was in that same phase at the same time. And adventure three was Adventurer, Traveler, and Risk Taker and I loved …the labels are kind of the big themes that you put there. So, your current status is Possibility, Generosity, and Courage.

Here’s my question. You’re in adventure six. Will there be an adventure seven? Do you see a need to change?

Joanna 38:41

Yeah, I think it’s time for me to update my timeline. Because absolutely, the journey to becoming a Potentialist and Fairy Godmother has been the last five years. And I think it’s actually stepping wholeheartedly into those labels and focusing on them as much as possible. So yeah, I think it’s the “How do I how do I become the 80-year-old Joanna that I have in my head that I want to be?”

Nancy 39:06

I just think that’s such a useful exercise to look back over your career and think about it that way.

Joanna 39:11

And I’ll just throw out that the timeline piece was a fight against how much how much I hate resumes, because they only talk about your past. And the timeline talks about not only who I was and what I was thinking and what I was doing, but also make space for the future person too.

And I think it’s a different way of thinking about how to tell your story, and I’m gonna come back to my Cinderella thing, because this isn’t just about what comes out of your mouth when you teaching people. But it’s also, are you thinking about the entire purchase process? And I’ll come back to Cinderella. One of the most genius moves that the Fairy Godmother does is she puts a time constraint on Cinderella and ergo she loses her shoe on the stairs.

And what the shoe is, is probably the most genius business card on the planet. Right? Because the prince, while he would have probably gone “Oh, she was totally awesome and hot,” would never have been able to find her without the shoe. And I think the whole shoe piece was a bit of is basically Schwag 2.0. And so, I sit here, and I go, in your meetings with people, are you creating a leave-behind a shoe or something so that people remember you?

Nancy 40:24

But not a shoe. You guys, this is an analogy. This is an analogy. Don’t leave your shoes behind.

Joanna 40:31

Like the timeline … I had one client who went through a very interesting career journey. And we use the timeline to explain why her career journey was so weird and fantastic and what actually layered on each other. And it becomes a tool to help people remember you, because in the “every decision made about you and your opportunities is made in a room that you’re not in”… one, it’s Are you part of the consideration set? Do they even know you exist? The second is, what are they saying about you in that room? And if they’re saying stuff, it’s because they remember who the unique you is. And that is the teach at the end of the day,

Nancy 41:06

How much more fun would a job in HR be if people came in with an adventure timeline instead of a resume? Oh, my God, everybody would want to work in that field.

Joanna 41:14

This is thing, especially when I work with companies – the reality is, our career paths are fun, our career adventure is fun, when you find that beautiful balance between believing in the value of what it is you are contributing to the organization ,believing “my work matters,” and being excited and curious about the thing you are going to do. That’s when it’s fun, where it gets really amazing.

And where companies can get so much out of it is when everybody on the team understands what each other’s are and believes in them. Because you think about when you have worked on a project and you’re like, “God, we were awesome together.” It’s when everybody’s unique value was recognized.

Nancy

Absolutely.

Joanna

And everyone was excited and curious about what it is they were going to do. That’s when the magic happens. That’s absolutely when the magic happens. So, step one of that is actually figure out what yours is, then once you’ve got yours, you can find out what other people’s are. And then you can put teams together. Humans are where the future is. And that’s, that’s the Nirvana that I want for everybody. We all get to take an adventure on our own terms, whatever they are.

Nancy 42:30

We have one last question: what one piece of advice do you have for people younger than you, or do you wish you could go back and tell yourself?

Joanna 42:37

I’m gonna be a scientist for my former self head. The amygdala, that little thing in your head which is that voice in your head is scientifically preprogrammed to be 70% negative. 70% negative. And so, while the voice is helpful, it’s often kind of a meanie.

You need to be active in mitigating that voice in your head, because we all have one. And it’s all telling us a lot of nasty things. Make the effort to change that conversation around, because the more you can tell it to shut up, the more you can actually step into what it is you could do. And that’s where the fun starts.

Nancy 43:13

That’s a great piece of advice. Joanna Bloor, thank you so much for your time today. I feel energized. I’m going to go make a timeline for myself.

You guys. I will leave links in the show notes to find out more about Joanna, but you can go to www.JoannaBloor.com to learn more. And Joanna, thanks so much for being with us today.

Joanna 43:33

Nancy, thank you. This has been amazing. You are also magic.

Nancy

You. You, my friend, are magic. I’m going to find some sequins.

Joanna

Awesome!

Nancy

I’ll talk to you later.

Nancy 43:47

I hope you’ll go forward from that conversation thinking about what you want your next adventure to be – and how you can start making it easier for others to see that Future You now. Check out Joanna’s website and other links on the show notes.

I started doing Listener- Contributed episodes in 2019 and I have to say, they are some of my absolute favorites. I really appreciate the stories you’ve shared of teenage shenanigans, advice to your younger selves, first jobs and more. So, I’ve decided to end the year with another listener-contributed episode, and I want to hear from you. Here’s the challenge:

Share one grief and one gratitude from 2020

It has been an absolute crap year, but I know that each of us still has experienced some unexpected silver lining. In the spirit of my conversation in Ep 84 with Therapist Mazi Robinson, I want us to acknowledge the duality of what we’ve come through, the bad and the good.

I would probably answer this question differently each time you asked me so for today I’ll just say I’m grieving the loss of my young adult daughters’ independence as they’re living at home, and I’m grateful for the looong Zoom calls I’ve had with friends I met as a young adult and with whom I had lost touch. Also grateful for the Zoom “touch up your appearance” filter so those long-lost friends don’t realize how decrepit I am now.

How about you? What is one thing you’re mourning and one thing you’re appreciating? Let’s crowd-source an episode that acknowledges the universal nature of our loss but ends on a note of hope. Lots of ways to share your thoughts:

• Leave me a voice mail right from your computer! Go to www.MidlifeMixtape.com and you’ll see a blue button on the right hand side that says, “Share one grief and one gratitude for 2020” Just press it, and you can start recording with one click. I would LOVE for people to do this so I can incorporate your actual voice on the episode!
• Record a voice memo into your phone and email it to [e-mail]. Again, it would be so cool to hear and share your story in your actual voice.
• Email me your grief and gratitude in 2020 to [e-mail]
• Send me a Facebook message, tweet or Instagram comment @midlifemixtape

Start thinking about it and then send me your stories to me before Dec 11!

Have a happy, safe, and filling Thanksgiving, Pop Rocks!

[THEME MUSIC – “Be Free” by M. The Heir Apparent]

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