Nothing To See Here, Folks!

Quintessentially Mental: The Podcast

This latest episode of Quintessentially Mental: The Podcast features Nicole Germond. This podcast is hosted by SureEyes.

Transcript

SureEyes: [00:00:00] You're listening to quintessentially mental a podcast hosted by SureEyes , please note that this host is not a mental health practitioner or professional, and this podcast is not made for treatment of any mental illness.

[00:00:37]spudcaster: [00:00:37] Baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including Apple and Google podcasts, podcast your life with baobulb.org.

[00:00:57] SureEyes: [00:00:57] Hey, y'all this is quintessentially mental, the podcast, and I'm your host SureEyes . Today's episode is called nothing to see here, folks, um, inspired by, you know, just thinking on the early parts of my journey on, on mental health and how, you know, our families almost ignore what's going on, um, or pretend it doesn't exist.

[00:01:25] Um, And so that's kind of what I'd like to chat about today, um, is really how we cope when we feel unseen or unheard, or like what we're going through. Isn't acknowledged. Um, especially by the people closest to us, our family, you know, the people we live with, the people we identify or the first people we identify with, um, And I think, you know, it, and, and obviously the effect of that on our, on our mental health.

[00:02:04] Um, so for today's episode, I'll be chatting to a very good friend of mine. Um, her name is Nicole Germond . She is, we've probably been friends for about 20 odd years. We met in our first year of high school way back in 2000. Um, and yeah, I think, you know, we, we we've, we've watched each other grow and support each other along our, our individual mental health journeys.

[00:02:38] Um, and obviously as teenagers watching us struggle with anxiety, as we navigate depression, anxiety, um, again, in our early adulthood and here at university in Cape town, um, going through quite tumultuous relationships. Um, and then again, as adults, you know, or more matured adults, um, And so we, we have a pretty long history together and have quite a strong understanding of each other's family responses to our individual mental health journeys.

[00:03:22] Um, if I, if I reflect on my own, um, my own journey, I remember as a teenager feeling like I didn't belong, um, feeling. You know, as I, as I've mentioned in a previous podcast, I'm my mother's middle child. And growing up with, you know, my older and youngest sibling, um, before the, the three youngest siblings came along after, my parents divorced, I, I really struggled with.

[00:03:55] Anger anger towards my parents and the relationship specifically, my father and the abuse I witnessed specifically my mom and resenting or not even realizing I resented my mom only realizing that in later years. Um, but just feeling a sense of anger and feeling like. You know what I was experiencing, wasn't normal and long time feeling embarrassed by the events in my family.

[00:04:26] And I remember being probably in about grade nine. Um, and back in those days, we called it standard seven, even just a giveaway to, to my age. And, you know, I, I remember. Feeling lost, unseen. Unheard. Um, just like, as I said, like I didn't belong and you know, I would go on hunger strikes. So to show my, you know, disgust and upset with the way that my father was treating my mom and our family.

[00:05:05] Know, I would refuse to eat any of the food that he bought or refuse to wear any of the clothes that he bought. Um, and this would cause. Obviously going without food for all, you know, infrequent periods of food would affect one's mood. As I, as I now know. Um, and I think that added to my general sense of moodiness.

[00:05:30] And I remember my mom saying to me, you know, instead of delving into these, these issues, her response at that time was. well, you're just feeling sorry for yourself. You're just being self-pitying. And, and that, I guess confused me because I, they, I think further negated how I felt I then further, um, you know, pushed down and ignored what it is I was feeling.

[00:06:06] Because, you know, if, if my, my, my mom's response was that I'm simply feeling sorry for myself, it then means that my, my general sense of feeling whatever that was, you know, as I mentioned it being, um, just unseen, unheard. You know, that, that, that was unjustified. That I didn't have a reason that I didn't, you know, that, that it wasn't.

[00:06:35] neccesary , almost that I was an inconvenience at another time. Her words to me were that I was ungrateful and that stuck with me, you know, that, that response really in later years made me feel that how could I possibly struggle with. Depression or anxiety or have any kind of mood disorder? When I was so blessed when I had a roof, when I had food, when I had, um, an education, when I had a boyfriend, when I had, um, access to a great university, when I had friends, when I had, you know, Those words in later two years would really impact my ability to accept the fact that I had an illness.

[00:07:31] And so I really want Nicole and I have to talk about how. You know, our, our families ignoring whether it's intentional and not conscious or not, you know, based on the individual narratives, if we can really understand how their behavior of ignoring our mental challenges or mental illness, um, affected us.

[00:07:56] At the time and also in later years, so stay tuned. Um, we'll, we'll be back after this ad break, um, to, to welcome Nicole to, to this discussion,

[00:08:09]spudcaster: [00:08:09] This podcast is produced and hosted by spudcaster for baobulb.org .

[00:08:15]SureEyes: [00:08:15] I'm joined now by a very good friend of mine. We've been friends for way too long, maybe 20 years. Um, yeah.

[00:08:27] Hey Nics. How are you?

[00:08:29] Nicole Germond: [00:08:29] Hi. Hi,

[00:08:31] SureEyes: [00:08:31] how are you doing?

[00:08:33] Nicole Germond: [00:08:33] All right. Yeah. I'm okay.

[00:08:35] SureEyes: [00:08:35] Thank you for agreeing to talk to me.

[00:08:38] Nicole Germond: [00:08:38] You most welcome.

[00:08:39] SureEyes: [00:08:39] We've had a, we've had a long mental health history.

[00:08:49] Nicole Germond: [00:08:49] It goes back a long way. It really does.

[00:08:52] SureEyes: [00:08:52] Yeah. So I think, you know, in today's episode, we're just kind of talking about how, when we struggle with mental health issues, in whatever form they take, whether diagnosed or not, or, you know, whether overt or not, and just the reaction from our families, you know, and because of the, I don't know, in my view, the.

[00:09:16] tabooness of it all, like from my perspective, which is the coloured angle, which is keep a stiff upper lip and black people who struggle in life in general. So what are you talking about? You know, families tend to just sweep things under the rug or pretend they're not happening. And so I, I'm going to have this conversation with you because you've experienced almost a similar.

[00:09:41] You know, you've had something similar based on your experience with your family.

[00:09:48] Nicole Germond: [00:09:48] Yeah. Um, you know, I think it is a very prolific problem, especially in South Africa. Um, you know, look, I can't, I can't speak culturally obviously. Uh, but, uh, you know, from, from the people that I've spoken to and, you know, as you've just said, it's we come from.

[00:10:10] Uh, very, uh, stiff upper lip sort of society. Um, you know, and it's not, I think mental health is something that isn't really acknowledged. I think we're getting there. Just globally, you know, day by day, where we're inching towards it being more sort of socially acceptable or you know, that the discussions and the conversations that we're having around, uh, opening up people and families, especially to, to the idea that mental health shouldn't be something to do.

[00:10:42] But I think especially in this country, we were still very far behind, um, you know, on a personal level. I have definitely. Had that experience. It was, you know, I think especially as a teenager and I think my family is, is doing much better with it now because of the shift. But as a teenager, there's definitely, you know, that was a long time ago as you know, because we're all, older people now.

[00:11:18] When we were, when we were teens, you know, and it was, it was very impactful. How our families reacted to, to mental health that was when, when we really needed the support. Um, and I don't think that, that we got it. And I think that is still a problem. Now, you know, we, we have these mental health issues and it's, it's not specific to one sector of people, you know, it's, it's, it's.

[00:11:46] It's across the board, everybody. I mean, not everybody, but you know, people from every culture, from every race, from every unit, there are people across the board that suffered with these mental health issues and to have families, um, you know, who, who have almost stigmatized this, it can be, uh, can make seeking help very difficult.

[00:12:11] Um, you know, it can. It can make you want to hide that part of yourself because to not be accepted by a family, um, you know, it's, it's very isolating. So I think, yeah, it's, it's having these conversations I think is important because families need to be more open minded and to, to kind of open themselves up to.

[00:12:42] Knowing what these issues are and knowing, you know, if you have a family member that, that, uh, is struggling with within mental health, you know, learning the things that you can do to help them and, you know, not ostracizing. And I think, you know, especially in the African cultures, you know, it's, uh, it's people get ostracized incredibly, um, Quite brutally, I think, you know, so why would anybody be open about, about their mental health, if that's the case?

[00:13:11] And that's very unfortunate because we're closing, you know, we're closing those doors for people, you know, they, they, they don't have the opportunity to, to get help. Um, you know, and I mean, personally on a personal level, having my family, um, you know, My family, it wasn't that they didn't acknowledge it. It was that they didn't know necessarily how to deal with it.

[00:13:42] Um, and they did all the wrong things and it, it led to a very, a much longer journey of, of sort of having to have to try and figure it out myself than had they approached the right people or to educate themselves. Um, I think, yeah, I think it's, it would have been much more beneficial to me much, much earlier on,

[00:14:10] SureEyes: [00:14:10] but this is the thing I think at that point in our lives, when we were 13, 14, 15 years old in the normal development of a human being at that point where there's so much confusion around your identity and fitting in with.

[00:14:29] Your family, your social group, your school, your self, you know, the, the additional layer of struggling with things like depression or anxiety or suicidal thoughts or self-harm, or, you know, these things that just add an additional layer of complexity to what is already quite the troubling time. You know, again, like, I'm glad you said that, you know, like my relationships with my mom's specifically is in a much better place now that, you know, she's also had her own experience with mental health challenges in her life.

[00:15:16] But at that time where. You know, she herself didn't have language or understanding it wasn't something that from her generation was spoken about exactly the way she reacted to me then, which is very detrimental to me being able to actually cope with what I was going through. And so, you know, using words, like when I was.

[00:15:45] Because I felt this pressure to almost be happy all the time. Like that was the only, that was the only feeling that was acceptable and to display, anything else was like, I wasn't grateful or I was being self-pitying or, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't appreciated for the response to a context that I was going through. Exactly. I think that.

[00:16:13] That hopefully, you know, starts shifting and maybe, you know, teenagers now have parents who, but it's still not as open as it could be. It's teenagers, but it's definitely not. And maybe it's also the culture we live in. Right? Like everyone's an emo kid. Everyone is. Writing some song about some shit that happened to them, you know, and we are verbalizing our stories a lot more, but not on a I see it, at least not on a, on a real level.

[00:16:47] It's still almost like very superficial level. Exactly. Because we're still scared of being judged or if we're like I know with me. When I had my, when I was working in, in Doha and I had like a huge mental breakdown where I basically told a colleague, a partner like a senior to me that I feel very sorry for his whole family, that they have to be subjected to his presence.

[00:17:18] Like I had a nervous breakdown. And so it was translated that I was incapable of doing my job. Yeah, the translation. And that was only three years ago, two years ago.

[00:17:30]Nicole Germond: [00:17:30] Absolutely. And I think, unfortunately we, we almost ostracize ourselves still, you know, even those of us that have acknowledged and, and, um, uh, come to terms with the fact that we do struggle with mental, mental health and mental health issues and mental illness.

[00:17:48] You know, I think that we. We've also put it on ourselves. I mean, I it's the same thing for me. I also had a period, an episode of the complete mental breakdown. And I didn't even want to tell anybody because I was quite ashamed and, you know, I went into hospital and I had planned not to tell my family and largely that was because, you know, it was so ignored and, and sort of dealt with poorly.

[00:18:20] When I was younger, but it was also because I felt a lot of shame and I didn't want anyone to know that I was going through this period and that I needed to be hospitalized. You know? So, I mean, I think that we, we take that. We take a lot of that on ourselves as well. Um, that we don't, we, we, we don't view it as something.

[00:18:42] Not to say that it's normal, but that is a part of life and that, you know, mental health for the most part in largely, you know, it's, it's illness to some degree, you know, obviously there's, there's environmental factors and, and, and all that, but, you know, we, we talk about mental illness. Uh, but we don't, we don't see it as an illness in ourselves.

[00:19:05] You know, we still see it as something to be ashamed of. You know, you wouldn't be ashamed of, of having cancer ashamed of having diabetes or whatever the case is. Why are we still so shameful about, you know, struggling mentally? Um, you know, so as far as family goes and, and, and ourselves, I mean, just on a personal level, that's, that's very been, been a very, um, Uh, consistent things through, through my experience of dealing, dealing with my family and dealing with mental health is my own shame around it.

[00:19:38] You know? And I think that that's also something that we need to overcome as a society. You know, as you said, we, we speaking about it more, but on quite a superficial level, but I think it's also, we need to talk about it. From from, uh, our own selves and, and, and learn to accept the stuff in ourselves, you know, and learn to embrace the fact that that's a big part of who we are.

[00:20:05] You know, it doesn't define us as people, but it is a part of what makes us us, and it's a part of our story. And it's a part of our struggle. Um, and there's nothing to be ashamed of in that.

[00:20:19] SureEyes: [00:20:19] It's it's funny you say that we, you know, while you were, while you were speaking about the shame you felt about the hospitalization.

[00:20:29] If I think about I've had like, basically four major breakdowns in the past six years, seven years, and the first time it happened, I went to a yoga retreat. I did not go to kennilworth clinic. I was like, I'm just going on. Like, self care mission you know, I wasn't, I wasn't like I'd actually need to be hospitalized because I had

[00:21:01] you know, overdosed and my psychiatrist was like, yeah, you're a risk to yourself. So either this is going to happen or, you know, you're going to be forced to do it. And then the last two middle breakdowns, I avoided hospitalization, but also was quite shameful. In like, explaining what had happened and like having friends,

[00:21:37] like making a joke out of it or like downplaying it. And then in 2019 I was hospitalized for two weeks, um, or 10 days. And there, I was just like, yeah, no fuck, like hospital. Y'all like, this is, you know, and my, my, if I think about what contributed to me feeling less shameful about it was the fact that I had a support system who didn't feel like I needed to, like, I was less of a person or I was.

[00:22:20] You know, so like, even from a work situation, I was in a team where health as a 360 was appreciated. And so I can tell my managers, you're like, I'm struggling. I need to, I'm actually really not. Well, I'm going to, you know, I need to be booked off so that I can go take care of myself. My family is supportive.

[00:22:43] Like my sister, and my mom drove me to the hospital, as opposed to the first time I was like, y'all, let's not even tell them, you know,

[00:22:52] Nicole Germond: [00:22:52] but that's exactly it. You know, I think having that support and. You know, work is, is hugely important to have the support of your colleagues. But, you know, just coming back to the, to the original topic about family, I mean, I think, you know, a big part of not feeling that shame yourself is, is to have your family be accepting of, of.

[00:23:13] Whatever it is, that's going on and be supportive about it. You know, what a big difference it made to you, you know, that your, that your mom and your sister were there. And it was the same for me. And, you know, I have been hospitalized more than once and my first couple of experiences were awful because I didn't feel supported and I didn't feel, um, that people thought that it was okay.

[00:23:33] That I was, that I was in hospital. Whereas, you know, the most recent time. There was a lot more support from my family, from my friends. And I felt like, okay, I'm actually, I'm doing the right thing here for, for my own mental health and for my own, just as you said, sort of holistic health and wellbeing.

[00:23:54] Exactly. You know, so I think it is important for families to be supportive. And, and obviously, you know, if, if you're in a position. Where your family isn't supportive. You can't, you can't change that. And you know, you can try your best to change it. But I think more so from, from, you know, if you're