The church - and the world - needs people who are both good leaders and good people, who can inspire others and bring change while remaining genuinely good people. The world has too many who are good leaders but not good people, or good people who are not (or at least not yet) good leaders. Brian Harris sits down with Jon Bergmann, Jennifer Argue, and Aaron Chidgzey to chat through his book on spiritual leadership and formation, Stirrers and Saints, which covers these issues - and more. No matter who you are or what your formal leadership position or title may or may not be, you can become someone who is both - a good leader and a good person, a Stirrer and a Saint.