The Engagement Equation: Finding the Right Balance

Talent Report+THRIVE

Description:

In this episode, we’ll explore the idea that workplace engagement is a two-way street and that employees and managers must play an active role in finding the right balance.

Engagement is crucial to productivity, motivation, and satisfaction in the workplace, which both employees and managers should strive for. But what does it take to create a workplace culture where engagement is a shared responsibility?

We’ll hear from MRA’s Employee Engagement Survey Director, Kristie Haase, who will share her insights on creating a workplace where employees and managers are equally engaged.

We’ll explore topics such as:

• The importance of communication and collaboration between employees and managers
• How to set goals and expectations that promote engagement and motivation for everyone involved
• The role of feedback and recognition in maintaining engagement

By the end of this episode, you’ll better understand how workplace engagement is a shared responsibility between employees and managers and the strategies they can use to promote engagement and balance for everyone involved. Whether you’re an employee or a manager, this episode is for you.

Resources:

Employee Engagement Resources

MRA Membership

About MRA

Let's Connect:

Guest Bio - Kristie Haase

Guest LinkedIn Profile - Kristie Haase

Host Bio - Sophie Boler

Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler

Transcript:

Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.

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Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive,

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your go to podcast for anything and everything HR.

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powered by MRA, the Management Association.

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Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR?

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MRA has got you covered.

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We'll be the first to tell you what's hot, and what's not.

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I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.

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Now it's time to thrive.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive.

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I'm excited to introduce to you our guests for today, and that's Kristi

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Hasse our employee engagement survey director here at MRA.

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Kristi's passion is coaching leaders to really identify

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and align employee strengths to meet the business needs of the organizations.

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And she uses a combination of questions, humor

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in analogies to strengthen leaders ability to communicate with team members,

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applying that same combination to align employees

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to their current positions and career path.

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Her goal is really to increase engagement one employee at a time.

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So Kristi has served as an HR Generalist for 17 years

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in the manufacturing distrubution and health insurers, insurance industries

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across private public and nonprofit sectors

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and has worked at MRA for almost ten years now.

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So she comes with a lot of experience

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and knowledge today that i'm excited to talk about.

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And she'll really be highlighting employee engagement with her

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coaching and leadership backgrounds.

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So thanks for joining us.

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Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

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let's dive into the first question right away

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and I really want to talk about that.

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There's a lot of different words and terms that people like to use when talking

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about engagement, for example, engagement,

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satisfaction, retention and culture.

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So can you kind of talk about the difference

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in the differences between each of those terms now?

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Sure.

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So if we're thinking about engagement,

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engagement in the definition that we use,

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at MRA is really investment.

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How invested is an individual

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in the organization they are in and in the job that they're doing,

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whereas satisfaction really is

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how content are they.

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So I like to use the analogy for those two

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to be almost like being in this room with you right now.

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So this is a very comfortable room.

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It's nice and warm.

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You're nice and warm.

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You know, it's easy to be here.

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So I can say, Oh, you know, I'm content,

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but if you were not asking me questions

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in the moment, I could be satisfied content,

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but maybe thinking about something entirely different.

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What am I having for dinner?

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so I may not be invested in the discussion or I may not be present

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in the discussion.

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So in order to be both satisfied and engaged,

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a person has to say for satisfaction, Is this really a place for me?

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And then for engagement do I want to contribute to I want to be a part of.

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So they really they work together, but they are separate things.

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So how do they look on the other side now?

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How do they tie together?

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And should you be using these terms interchangeably?

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You should not be using the terms interchangeably.

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That's the easy part.

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How they tie together is almost as complicated as we are as humans.

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There's a lot of variables.

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And so in in business,

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we often talk about how important retaining talent is.

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We want our folks to stay with us as long as possible.

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So we we talk about that as retention

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and then when we start to talk about how to measure retention, a lot of times

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leaders or HR folks will say, oh, you know, i want to measure engagement.

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And when we start talking about, well, why do you want to measure that?

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A lot of times we're really talking about satisfaction.

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So when we think about

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what we're

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looking to do, retention is the end goal.

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Engagement is a part of that end goal.

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But engagement on its own won't necessarily ensure retention.

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Satisfaction on its own won't necessarily ensure retention,

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engagement, satisfaction in culture.

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What other employment alternatives are out there right now?

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All of those factors

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contribute to how long a person stays in the organization, not to mention

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the non-work-related components of our lives.

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Are we?

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Do we need to leave an organization

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because we have a change in our family, our spouse moving?

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So there's all the non-work-related factors that go in as well.

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So the when we think about

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using terms interchangeably, no, I would

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I want folks to really be clear about when they're looking

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to measure engagement or they want to change employee engagement.

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They're really looking at how to increase

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a sense of accountability and investment when they're looking to

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influence satisfaction.

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I want them to think about the experience, the employee experience,

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and then when they're thinking about retention,

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I want them to be thinking about, okay, the length of time

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people are in their organization or in the role in an organization

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you just mentioned about measuring employee engagement, And it's important

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for companies to really measure their success with employee engagement.

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So I guess that poses the question of

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can you actually measure engagement?

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The easy short answer is yes.

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The reality is it's hard to do

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because with any

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any human component that you're trying to measure,

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whether it's satisfaction, engagement

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and sense of culture in an organization, there are a lot of variables at play.

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So they they interact with each other, as I've already talked about.

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So the the best approach to

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measure engagement is to be knowledgeable about what

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your definition of engagement is going to be.

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So at MRA, we say that we're we're measuring engagement.

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We are looking to see how

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well the organization has identified their mission

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and how well they describe

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how employees jobs are tied to that mission.

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Then we're measuring the employees interest in the mission,

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the future of the organization and their perception of

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and and their willingness to contribute to the outcome of that.

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So we really define specifically what we're trying to measure.

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And then we design questions to align to that.

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And a lot of times, organization will say, I want to measure engagement

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and they may select a vendor to help them do that

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and their definitions don't align,

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or they might do their own survey and just ask questions

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that may or may not get at that construct of engagement.

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So it's hard to do, admittedly.

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But yes, you certainly can measure.

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And then kind of going off about what is your experience

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with using data metrics to really measure engagement?

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Well, you know, I do it all the time.

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So for the past nine years, I've been administering

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employee engagement surveys to members of MRA.

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And one of the

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things that I find interesting

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is that no matter that you organization, no matter the industry,

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no matter the size of the company, there are

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themes that continue to surface

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when it comes to employee engagement, and that is that in order for

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people to really feel a sense of engagement,

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they do need to know that mission.

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They need to know how their job aligns.

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They need to feel a part of the organization.

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They need to feel like they are in the know.

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So communication becomes a critical piece for them

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and then a sense of growth in the organization that they can grow

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their skillset, not necessarily moving up in the organization,

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but feeling like that they are learning as they are giving to the organization.

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And you can certainly you can measure all of that

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through surveys and surveys are important to do.

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But the other component of measuring engagement

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is the qualitative side,

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meaning engagement is visual, you can observe it.

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So organizations that are interested

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in engagement, I encourage them to collect

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the metrics, to run the surveys,

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but also to begin to know what it looks like.

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And sounds like that too, is measurement.

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And in a lot of ways it is a more valuable measure of engagement.

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Yeah, I really like that.

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That kind of brings us to our next point that engagement is not all one sided too.

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It's not all on the employer manager to keep employees engaged,

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and it's also not all on the employees to make sure that they stay engaged.

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You So can you talk about that for a little bit,

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oh, I could talk about that for a long time.

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Sophie because I think that is one of the most intriguing components of engagement.

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It really is a two way street.

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It is. It's an equation.

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So there are things that the organization must do

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in order to ensure that employees can engage.

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So they do need as I know I'm repeating myself here,

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but they do need to say, Hey, this is who we are as an organization.

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This is our purpose.

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And that needs to be a prevalent message

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for each position in the organization.

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It needs to be clear how that position contributes to the purpose.

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So the employer is responsible for those two things.

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Well, if if I am coming to work for your organization, Sophie,

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and you're that you're my,

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you're going to be my leader and you explain those things to me.

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Really well.

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You've done the first two pieces for my engagement,

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but the second two are mine.

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So I have to then say, Oh, yes, I like what this organization is about.

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I like with the role is about I want to stay here while I want to contribute.

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So I have to make that choice.

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And then the second piece for me as the employee is

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I now have to apply my knowledge, skills and abilities.

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So I have to apply myself.

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I have to really get involved.

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So that is the employee's

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responsibility for engagement.

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Then if I say yes, I want to be a part of this organization,

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I want to contribute, then it's back to you as my leader

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to ensure that I have what I need to do my job too.

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I have the tools and equipment.

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As the job changes, do I have the opportunity to gain new skills?

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So you've got to help me to continue to grow.

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And then also I have to feel visible in the organization.

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Now we talk about employee recognition a lot,

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but we often think about employee

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recognition as tokens or money.

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But when it comes to engagement, the recognition is primarily

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between the employee and their leader.

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So do you see me if I'm having to put in a lot of effort

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to complete a project

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and I'm working a lot of hours, let's

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say your simple acknowledgment of Kristi.

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Thank you. I know that this is a long haul.

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I know you're contributing a lot of hours.

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Thank you for doing so.

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I feel visible.

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But if I'm giving, giving, giving and my immediate leader isn’t

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recognizing that, then over time

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I tend to not just myself, I'm using myself

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in the examples, but over time people will give less.

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They'll sort of pull back.

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It's not necessarily disengaging, but for a lot of organizations that are

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measuring engagement, their populations by go from highly engaged to engaged.

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So feeling valued and visible for the contributions

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for the outcomes is important to sustain engagement.

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Yeah, those are great points.

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I love the recognition piece

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because I feel like that's very important for me to use to be like

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that kind of just motivates you to like keep going.

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Like, Hey, my work work's being recognized.

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They like what I'm doing.

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I keep going kind of, yeah. So I like that.

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Let's say that

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you're organization and start to notice

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that employee engagement is starting to decline.

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What would you say the first action step is?

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Oh, this is not our question.

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Yeah, this is probably not going to be a thing

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for an answer for for people to hear.

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But this goes back to the two ways to measure engagement.

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Yes, you can do surveys, but you can also observe engagement.

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And so my hope is that for organizations

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where someone is now concerned that engagement may have dropped,

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my preference and hope would be that they're noticing,

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they're hearing the difference. There's standing difference.

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And as soon as they hear or see it that individual leaders

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are talking with their folks, this is what's often less appealing

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because it's easy to get a survey and let there be anonymous responses.

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But Sophie, going back to the example, if you're my leader

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and you're working with me and you know

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that I've been a consistent performer

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and I have demonstrated interest

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and concern and now you see change, the quickest, best action

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is to have a one on one discussion to say, Hey, Kristi,

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I notice, that lately you're you're not as talkative in meetings or

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I notice

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that you're not volunteering for some of the extra projects.

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You know, you're just kind of only a late answer,

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whatever it is, and that the

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the discussion can open up at that point because that

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discussion enables a leader to learn

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what roadblock may now be underway

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or what has changed in that employee for their engagement to shift.

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And so that is the best thing to do in that moment.

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Now from employee engagement surveys, I can guess what

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changes have occurred,

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what we see and what we have seen

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not only during COVID but over the past decade.

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The biggest factors that

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influence engagement

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is the level of communication on the day to day.

00:15:57:10 - 00:16:01:09
So if the job changes and that employee was not aware,

00:16:02:00 - 00:16:04:12
then that's really going to alter their engagement.

00:16:05:00 - 00:16:07:14
If they have expressed an interest

00:16:07:14 - 00:16:12:18
or a need to learn something new and their leader leader

00:16:12:18 - 00:16:16:05
is not arranging for that, that's going to drive engagement.

00:16:16:16 - 00:16:18:08
It's going to change engagement.

00:16:18:08 - 00:16:22:12
If they feel like they've been hired to do a certain job

00:16:22:12 - 00:16:26:10
and they're not allowed to do it either because they are being micromanaged

00:16:26:10 - 00:16:30:09
or because there's a disconnect between what they're doing

00:16:30:09 - 00:16:32:08
and what their colleague is doing

00:16:32:08 - 00:16:34:20
or what their department is doing in another department is doing.

00:16:34:20 - 00:16:36:13
They're not working well together.

00:16:36:13 - 00:16:38:04
That's going to hinder engagement.

00:16:38:04 - 00:16:43:05
So having those conversations enables a leader and an employee

00:16:43:13 - 00:16:48:10
to identify what has changed or what may be a factor,

00:16:48:11 - 00:16:52:12
and then to work together to try to improve that.

00:16:52:22 - 00:16:55:23
And even all those conversations and probably difficult

00:16:55:23 - 00:16:57:20
or might be hard to bring up.

00:16:57:20 - 00:17:02:02
It also shows that, hey, my leader cares about you and cares

00:17:02:07 - 00:17:07:11
why I'm not performing my best and stuff like you and Sophie.

00:17:07:11 - 00:17:10:03
On that point, I have to also say,

00:17:10:21 - 00:17:14:05
you know, engagement, as we have mentioned, is two ways.

00:17:14:10 - 00:17:14:21
Yeah.

00:17:14:21 - 00:17:20:08
And I have to now also acknowledge that for leaders a lot of times

00:17:21:10 - 00:17:24:01
engaged employees are

00:17:24:16 - 00:17:31:07
challenging for leaders because if if an employee is really engaged,

00:17:31:12 - 00:17:37:04
they care and they have high expectations to be in the know.

00:17:37:07 - 00:17:39:17
Yeah. Or for things to be fixed.

00:17:39:17 - 00:17:43:08
And so a lot of times to have these one on one discussions,

00:17:43:19 - 00:17:48:06
the leader is a little bit vulnerable to what the employee's expressing.

00:17:48:12 - 00:17:52:02
And depending upon that employee's personality,

00:17:52:02 - 00:17:53:10
they can be really passionate.

00:17:53:10 - 00:17:57:12
And so they have a lot of energy about what is happy about.

00:17:57:19 - 00:18:00:10
The leader could just be like, Oh,

00:18:00:12 - 00:18:02:19
that's a good point, what do I do?

00:18:03:21 - 00:18:06:22
And so in all fairness, that's I think that's

00:18:06:22 - 00:18:12:03
one of the biggest challenges for leaders when they are managing engaged employees.

00:18:12:18 - 00:18:14:17
I mean, highly engaged employees.

00:18:14:17 - 00:18:17:11
You can almost feel that momentum from them.

00:18:17:19 - 00:18:21:15
So the leader needs to be prepared to handle that and be okay.

00:18:21:15 - 00:18:22:00
Right.

00:18:22:00 - 00:18:25:09
The kind of going off of that declining

00:18:25:09 - 00:18:28:20
employee engagement, we're still hearing about quiet quitting.

00:18:29:06 - 00:18:31:13
So how does that tie into engagement?

00:18:31:13 - 00:18:34:14
And can you recommend anything to leaders out there

00:18:34:14 - 00:18:37:19
or even just employees experiencing quiet quitting?

00:18:39:07 - 00:18:42:05
I have I have some feelings about that term.

00:18:42:05 - 00:18:46:04
I struggle with quiet quitting a little bit because I know it's

00:18:46:04 - 00:18:49:22
been a term of interest in the past year or so.

00:18:50:21 - 00:18:54:00
And I think that it really depends

00:18:54:12 - 00:18:57:19
on how you define defining quiet quitting.

00:18:58:12 - 00:19:02:03
Some folks have defined quiet quitting to be

00:19:02:03 - 00:19:06:15
oh, a person is no longer going above and beyond for if that's your definition,

00:19:07:06 - 00:19:10:20
then then there's no problem in that sense.

00:19:10:20 - 00:19:14:18
Because if you think about a person no longer going above and beyond,

00:19:15:14 - 00:19:20:13
if you think about how we rate performance in organizations, we give ratings.

00:19:20:13 - 00:19:25:06
If we're still doing ratings will go to the ratings of exceeds

00:19:25:06 - 00:19:28:08
expectations meets expectations

00:19:28:12 - 00:19:32:00
is not meeting, it's below expectations.

00:19:32:00 - 00:19:36:09
So when a person goes above and beyond, then theoretically they should be rated

00:19:36:09 - 00:19:37:23
exceeds expectations.

00:19:37:23 - 00:19:40:12
If they're no longer doing that, but they're still getting their work done.

00:19:40:13 - 00:19:43:12
They're meeting expectations and quiet. Quitting is not a problem

00:19:44:15 - 00:19:45:22
if you define quiet.

00:19:45:22 - 00:19:50:14
Quitting though, as a person who is not

00:19:51:03 - 00:19:53:12
meeting expectations of the role,

00:19:54:01 - 00:19:58:19
then I would say in terms of measuring engagement,

00:19:59:00 - 00:20:01:19
that person's performance is now subpar

00:20:02:03 - 00:20:05:19
and they may be moving into the less engaged category.

00:20:06:05 - 00:20:09:12
And when you think about engagement and satisfaction,

00:20:09:12 - 00:20:13:18
it might mean that their satisfaction is still good.

00:20:13:18 - 00:20:16:20
They're still content to stay with the organization,

00:20:17:08 - 00:20:21:07
but they're not contributing as much if they're not meeting your expectations,

00:20:21:07 - 00:20:25:11
you have to address that from the objective perspective of the role.

00:20:26:00 - 00:20:31:07
But is they are not giving the extra and you want that back,

00:20:31:17 - 00:20:34:01
then it's back to what we talked about before

00:20:34:01 - 00:20:37:12
and you've got to be able to sit down and say, Kristi, I noticed

00:20:37:23 - 00:20:41:08
that you're no longer doing X, Y and Z.

00:20:41:08 - 00:20:43:22
So those conversations are critical,

00:20:44:23 - 00:20:45:12
but I

00:20:45:12 - 00:20:48:01
am just not that concerned with quiet quitting.

00:20:48:12 - 00:20:51:20
I think I think for a lot of organizations

00:20:51:20 - 00:20:54:20
and for a lot of employees

00:20:54:22 - 00:20:58:07
that there has been a shift, you know, since Covid,

00:20:58:12 - 00:21:03:00
where people really are evaluating, Yeah, how if I want to spend my time

00:21:03:10 - 00:21:06:07
and quite honestly for us as employers,

00:21:07:01 - 00:21:10:04
the flip side of that is, you know,

00:21:10:04 - 00:21:14:18
if we have not been acknowledging the contributions,

00:21:15:02 - 00:21:20:03
then the employees are that are creating that balance for themselves.

00:21:20:14 - 00:21:21:21
And that makes sense.

00:21:21:21 - 00:21:25:04
So kind of tying together all of this.

00:21:25:04 - 00:21:28:21
The title for the episode is the engagement equation

00:21:29:04 - 00:21:31:01
Finding the Right Balance.

00:21:31:01 - 00:21:34:14
So to close out for today, what is one piece of advice

00:21:34:14 - 00:21:39:23
that you would give employers on finding that right balance?

00:21:39:23 - 00:21:41:20
If you are

00:21:43:01 - 00:21:43:22
an organization that

00:21:43:22 - 00:21:46:22
really is interested in employee engagement?

00:21:47:18 - 00:21:50:18
I the one piece of advice I want to give

00:21:50:22 - 00:21:53:12
is to start at the beginning of the process.

00:21:54:05 - 00:22:01:14
The beginning of the process is for leaders to truly understand

00:22:01:14 - 00:22:08:04
the positions that report to them, not the people, but the positions.

00:22:08:04 - 00:22:09:20
What are you asking?

00:22:09:20 - 00:22:13:14
And in that position, where are the expectations?

00:22:13:17 - 00:22:16:18
What are the goals

00:22:16:18 - 00:22:19:12
and how are you measuring those things?

00:22:20:02 - 00:22:23:01
Because it's only when leaders truly

00:22:23:01 - 00:22:27:23
know what the purpose of that role is, when it's really defined for them,

00:22:28:11 - 00:22:30:14
that's when they can begin to

00:22:32:08 - 00:22:35:20
assess what meeting expectations really means,

00:22:36:03 - 00:22:40:00
what exceeding it really means, what it means to go above and beyond.

00:22:40:11 - 00:22:43:06
And they can coach effectively

00:22:43:22 - 00:22:47:06
and they can also, when they're having people enter into a role,

00:22:47:19 - 00:22:51:22
they can get those people to invest quicker.

00:22:52:05 - 00:22:56:03
So being really certain about the positions

00:22:56:03 - 00:22:59:19
that newly it is the first step for engagement.

00:22:59:23 - 00:23:00:17
Absolutely.

00:23:00:17 - 00:23:05:10
That's great advice to anyone who thinks, Do you have any last piece of advice

00:23:05:10 - 00:23:09:02
or any lasting comments to before we wrap up today.

00:23:11:06 - 00:23:14:05
So all of you, I know we've talked a lot about this for your side, but

00:23:14:05 - 00:23:18:18
Sophie, you did touch on the fact earlier that engagement is a two way street.

00:23:18:18 - 00:23:24:13
And so for the employee perspective is where most of us are employees Somewhere.

00:23:24:14 - 00:23:25:05
Yeah,

00:23:26:05 - 00:23:30:23
for, for us as individuals, engagement is important

00:23:31:05 - 00:23:35:01
because it gives us a sense of value and purpose.

00:23:35:21 - 00:23:38:08
If we're working, this is important

00:23:38:08 - 00:23:41:04
for us to say what I'm doing is really meaningful.

00:23:41:13 - 00:23:47:14
And so, you know, if you don't really feel engaged in what you're doing

00:23:47:23 - 00:23:53:13
and you're thinking about maybe making a change to something that you think

00:23:53:13 - 00:23:57:00
would be a better fit for you,

00:23:57:00 - 00:24:01:17
I would encourage you to really do that because in order for you

00:24:01:17 - 00:24:06:05
to find work valuable, engagement is this key for you.

00:24:06:05 - 00:24:08:08
It's not just being satisfied.

00:24:08:08 - 00:24:13:06
Engagement is a sense of fulfillment and it's just a healthier way to work.

00:24:13:20 - 00:24:14:15
Absolutely.

00:24:14:15 - 00:24:19:03
Well, I want to thank you for all you do at MRA, because you’re amazing

00:24:19:04 - 00:24:21:22
and I want to thank you for being on 30 minutes Thrive today

00:24:21:22 - 00:24:25:14
and really sharing your knowledge and expertise on employee engagement.

00:24:26:02 - 00:24:30:00
So to our listeners, if you liked our chat and topic today,

00:24:30:12 - 00:24:33:03
make sure you share this episode and leave a comment.

00:24:33:03 - 00:24:37:22
Leave a review and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already

00:24:37:23 - 00:24:41:23
because we have all the show notes or all the resources in the show notes below.

00:24:42:07 - 00:24:44:03
So make sure you take a look at those.

00:24:44:03 - 00:24:47:18
We've also included Kristi's bio and LinkedIn profile,

00:24:47:18 - 00:24:50:18
so if you want to connect with her, get in touch with her.

00:24:51:09 - 00:24:53:19
We have all those resources available for you.

00:24:54:07 - 00:24:58:04
Otherwise, thanks so much for tuning in and we will see you next week.

00:24:59:05 - 00:25:01:23
And that wraps up our content for this episode.

00:25:02:00 - 00:25:05:04
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00:25:05:04 - 00:25:06:20
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00:25:06:20 - 00:25:10:14
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00:25:10:14 - 00:25:15:13
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00:25:15:14 - 00:25:16:10
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00:25:16:10 - 00:25:20:04
in, and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.