Five-time winner of Best Education Podcast in the Podcast Awards. Grammar Girl provides short, friendly tips to improve your writing and feed your love of the English language. Whether English is your first language or your second language, these grammar, punctuation, style, and business tips will make you a better and more successful writer. Grammar Girl is a Quick and Dirty Tips podcast.
…
continue reading
Content provided by The Nonlinear Fund. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by The Nonlinear Fund or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://player.fm/legal.
Player FM - Podcast App
Go offline with the Player FM app!
Go offline with the Player FM app!
AF - Debate, Oracles, and Obfuscated Arguments by Jonah Brown-Cohen
MP3•Episode home
Manage episode 425274838 series 2997284
Content provided by The Nonlinear Fund. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by The Nonlinear Fund or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://player.fm/legal.
Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Debate, Oracles, and Obfuscated Arguments, published by Jonah Brown-Cohen on June 20, 2024 on The AI Alignment Forum. This post is about recent and ongoing work on the power and limits of debate from the computational complexity point of view. As a starting point our paper Scalable AI Safety via Doubly-Efficient Debate gives new complexity-theoretic formalizations for debate. In this post we will give an overview of the model of debate in the paper, and discuss extensions to the model and their relationship to obfuscated arguments. High-level Overview At a high level our goal is to create a complexity theoretic models that allow us to productively reason about different designs for debate protocols, in such a way as to increase our confidence that they will produce the intended behavior. In particular, the hope would be to have debate protocols play a role in the training of aligned AI that is similar to the role played by cryptographic protocols in the design of secure computer systems. That is, as with cryptography, we want to have provable guarantees under clear complexity-theoretic assumptions, while still matching well to the actual in-practice properties of the system. Towards this end, we model AI systems as performing computations, where each step in the computation can be judged by humans. This can be captured by the classical complexity theoretic setting of computation relative to an oracle. In this setting the headline results of our paper state that any computation by an AI that can be correctly judged with Tqueries to human judgement, can also be correctly judged with a constant (independent of T) number of queries when utilizing an appropriate debate protocol between two competing AIs. Furthermore, whichever AI is arguing for the truth in the debate need only utilize O(TlogT) steps of computation, even if the opposing AI debater uses arbitrarily many steps. Thus, our model allows us to formally prove that, under the assumption that the computation in question can be broken down into T human-judgeable steps, it is possible to design debate protocols where it is harder (in the sense of computational complexity) to lie than to refute a lie. One natural complaint about this result is that there may be computations which cannot be broken down into human-judgeable steps. However, if you believe the extended Church-Turing thesis (that any computation can be simulated with only a polynomial-time slow-down on a Turing machine), then you cannot make the above complaint in its strongest form. After all, human judgement is a computation and whatever the AI is doing is a computation, so there can only be a polynomial-time slow-down between the way the AI does a particular computation and the way that a human could. That said, it is entirely valid to believe the extended Church-Turing thesis and make a weaker form of the above complaint, namely that the number of AI-judgeable steps might be polynomially less than the number of human-judgeable steps! If this polynomial is say n100, then the number of steps in the human-judgeable form of the computation can easily be so long as to be completely infeasible for the AI to produce, even when the AI-judgeable form is quite short. The fact that the human-judgeable version of a computation can be too long leads to the need for debate protocols that utilize the short AI-judgeable computation as a guide for exploring the long human-judgeable form. In particular, one might try to recursively break an AI-judgeable computation down into simpler and simpler subproblems, where the leaves of the recursion tree are human-judgeable, and then use some debate protocol to explore only a limited path down the tree. As we will later see, natural designs for such protocols run into the obfuscated arguments problem: it is possible to break a ...
…
continue reading
2442 episodes
MP3•Episode home
Manage episode 425274838 series 2997284
Content provided by The Nonlinear Fund. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by The Nonlinear Fund or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://player.fm/legal.
Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Debate, Oracles, and Obfuscated Arguments, published by Jonah Brown-Cohen on June 20, 2024 on The AI Alignment Forum. This post is about recent and ongoing work on the power and limits of debate from the computational complexity point of view. As a starting point our paper Scalable AI Safety via Doubly-Efficient Debate gives new complexity-theoretic formalizations for debate. In this post we will give an overview of the model of debate in the paper, and discuss extensions to the model and their relationship to obfuscated arguments. High-level Overview At a high level our goal is to create a complexity theoretic models that allow us to productively reason about different designs for debate protocols, in such a way as to increase our confidence that they will produce the intended behavior. In particular, the hope would be to have debate protocols play a role in the training of aligned AI that is similar to the role played by cryptographic protocols in the design of secure computer systems. That is, as with cryptography, we want to have provable guarantees under clear complexity-theoretic assumptions, while still matching well to the actual in-practice properties of the system. Towards this end, we model AI systems as performing computations, where each step in the computation can be judged by humans. This can be captured by the classical complexity theoretic setting of computation relative to an oracle. In this setting the headline results of our paper state that any computation by an AI that can be correctly judged with Tqueries to human judgement, can also be correctly judged with a constant (independent of T) number of queries when utilizing an appropriate debate protocol between two competing AIs. Furthermore, whichever AI is arguing for the truth in the debate need only utilize O(TlogT) steps of computation, even if the opposing AI debater uses arbitrarily many steps. Thus, our model allows us to formally prove that, under the assumption that the computation in question can be broken down into T human-judgeable steps, it is possible to design debate protocols where it is harder (in the sense of computational complexity) to lie than to refute a lie. One natural complaint about this result is that there may be computations which cannot be broken down into human-judgeable steps. However, if you believe the extended Church-Turing thesis (that any computation can be simulated with only a polynomial-time slow-down on a Turing machine), then you cannot make the above complaint in its strongest form. After all, human judgement is a computation and whatever the AI is doing is a computation, so there can only be a polynomial-time slow-down between the way the AI does a particular computation and the way that a human could. That said, it is entirely valid to believe the extended Church-Turing thesis and make a weaker form of the above complaint, namely that the number of AI-judgeable steps might be polynomially less than the number of human-judgeable steps! If this polynomial is say n100, then the number of steps in the human-judgeable form of the computation can easily be so long as to be completely infeasible for the AI to produce, even when the AI-judgeable form is quite short. The fact that the human-judgeable version of a computation can be too long leads to the need for debate protocols that utilize the short AI-judgeable computation as a guide for exploring the long human-judgeable form. In particular, one might try to recursively break an AI-judgeable computation down into simpler and simpler subproblems, where the leaves of the recursion tree are human-judgeable, and then use some debate protocol to explore only a limited path down the tree. As we will later see, natural designs for such protocols run into the obfuscated arguments problem: it is possible to break a ...
…
continue reading
2442 episodes
All episodes
×Welcome to Player FM!
Player FM is scanning the web for high-quality podcasts for you to enjoy right now. It's the best podcast app and works on Android, iPhone, and the web. Signup to sync subscriptions across devices.