Is Food Impacting Our Children More Than We Realize?

The Odyssey: Parenting. Caregiving. Disability.

You are what you eat. That adage has been around forever for a reason.

The foods we consume have changed drastically over the last few decades. Packaged, highly processed foods have flooded groceries, gas stations, schools, sporting events, and gatherings. It's practically impossible for a child or adult to go a day without having ultra-processed fare offered or simply sitting out to grab.

We're still learning the full impact this has on our minds and bodies. So far the data and anecdotal evidence show it's not good. And to be clear, this has nothing to do with weight or appearance. We're talking overall health, growth, behavior, and how we feel.

Shunta Summers sees this every day. She is the owner and president of Foundations Learning Academy. She's dedicated her life's work to childhood education and nutrition because she understands how it impacts the lives and futures of young people.

The Odyssey: Parenting. Caregiving. Disability.

The Center for Family Involvement at VCU School of Education's Partnership for People with Disabilities provides informational and emotional support to people with disabilities and their families. All of our services are free. We just want to help. We know how hard this can be because we're in it with you.

TRANSCRIPT:

01:00:07:20 - 01:00:36:07

Erin Croyle

Welcome to The Odyssey. Parenting, Caregiving, Disability. I'm Erin Croyle, the creator and host of The Odyssey podcast explores the turn our lives take when a loved one has a disability. I join the club, so to speak, in 2010, when my first child was born with Down's Syndrome. I left my career as a television journalist to immerse myself in parenting and understanding all things disability.

01:00:36:09 - 01:01:03:01

Erin Croyle

This eventually led to my work at the Center for Family Involvement at VCU's Partnership for People with Disabilities as a communications specialist. The impact our diets have on our brains and bodies has always interested me. Becoming a parent of three very different children and learning what families and schools are dealing with when it comes to nutrition made me realize how complicated feeding children can be.

01:01:03:03 - 01:01:21:01

Erin Croyle

Shunta Summers is going to break this down with me today. She's the owner and president of Foundations Learning Academy in Richmond, Virginia. Her child care center has a focus on early childhood education and nutrition.

01:01:21:03 - 01:01:44:22

Erin Croyle

Shunta, thank you so much for joining me. You have such an interesting background. Born in Queens, graduate from high school in Chesterfield, majored in food science at North Carolina State University. You own and run a successful business. You do volunteer and advocacy work. You're a mother of four. I don't know how you do it all. Maybe we should start with a what I eat in a day quiz.

01:01:44:22 - 01:01:49:00

Erin Croyle

Right to figure it out. Seriously, though, how do you do it all?

01:01:49:02 - 01:02:16:08

Shunta Summers

Well, thank you so much, Erin, for having me today. I like all of you. We're in this together. We're growing and learning as we live. One of the things that I do is I try to plan as much as possible, but life happens, throws us curveballs. We can't always do what we planned to do in the day. So that's one of the reasons why one of the key things is prepping.

01:02:16:10 - 01:02:37:16

Shunta Summers

I'm a big advocate for prepping at the center as well as at my home, because a lot of times I have to spend more time at the center. There are times that I don't get to provide the home cooked meals that I want to at home. So my alternative is to have meals prepped for my children so that they can grab and go.

01:02:37:17 - 01:03:00:15

Shunta Summers

It makes a lot easier that they're getting older, but I still want to make sure that they're given the best choices as possible, knowing that there's so many alternatives at their fingertips that they could just order food to come to their homes whenever. So I do understand the importance of having food too readily available at home as well as at the center.

01:03:00:15 - 01:03:05:05

Shunta Summers

And that's one of the things we try to educate our families about as well.

01:03:05:07 - 01:03:23:03

Erin Croyle

And we're going to get into what you suggested prep later on. I'm writing it down on my notes to make sure we follow up with that question. But I want to give you a little bit more background to who you are. I'm really interested in what got you interested in food science and the connection to early childhood.

01:03:23:05 - 01:03:47:15

Shunta Summers

One of the things was I was actually pre-med in school and then I did well, biochemistry, organic chemistry, loved it. But then once I had to start getting into working with humans and blood, I just didn't enjoy it. But then I also was fascinated me was how much food really does affect our bodies on a daily basis. So that's one of the reasons why I went into food science.

01:03:47:17 - 01:04:25:15

Shunta Summers

And I absolutely loved it because what I learned at school, a lot of times people say, what you learn school you don't really use in the real world. But those basic concepts that I learned early on still provides the framework for what I do now, even with early childhood development, because I take it our holistic approach. We don't just look at the educational needs, we look at social, emotional, plus the nutritional needs of these children, because we're actually helping families too, because a lot of our families, they don't know how to properly feed their children.

01:04:25:15 - 01:04:53:17

Shunta Summers

There's a lot of processed food, so introducing the child as early as possible to healthy, nutritious meals, you can really help their tastebuds very early on so that they don't want and need and crave the highly processed, salty, sugary, sweet foods that don't have high nutritional value that's going to last and help them grow and develop either.

01:04:53:19 - 01:05:25:05

Erin Croyle

I am so glad that you brought that up because something that so many parents struggle with is how hard it is to feed our kiddos. Right? And by right I don't mean right versus wrong or good food versus bad food. This conversation is not going to be about more diet culture nonsense. It's about nourishment. And in my experience as a parent, as someone who is involved in schools and someone who's at sporting events, when I say it's hard to feed our children, right, I mean that they are inundated with heavily in ultra processed foods.

01:05:25:11 - 01:05:45:10

Erin Croyle

Everywhere they go. There is these things called Scooby Snacks that are like on the label. They say they're good for kids and multigrain. But if you look at the actual packaging, I mean, it's all refined ingredients. Yes. Sugar. So much of the convenient stuff for toddlers and children and adults, for that matter. It's engineered for all of us to want more, right?

01:05:45:11 - 01:05:55:15

Erin Croyle

Yes. And then you couple that with food aversions and all these other things, it's really hard to establish and maintain a palate for foods. So tell me more about your experience with this.

01:05:55:17 - 01:06:25:23

Shunta Summers

So it is very challenging just from even the childcare perspective is because you want to do especially post-COVID, you want to have as many individually wrapped items as possible, but then that also means highly processed foods that are the lower nutritional value. So just last week I was at a food show. They know that we're vegetarian, So one of the things that they had was Kellogg's.

01:06:26:00 - 01:07:01:00

Shunta Summers

They came in, we went to to them and I saw the stuff. But then I also know there's another smaller company that has a whole grain that uses oats versus the refined and the enriched flour. Those type of things where you have to be aware of. Yes, the packaging is not as pretty, but at the end of the day, when I can serve crisp rice over wheat cracker, that goes a lot longer, especially when I have so many children with allergies.

01:07:01:02 - 01:07:25:09

Shunta Summers

So that's one of the things is just looking at it like with meal prepping, just like as far as our yogurt, we would just get the tubs of the nonfat yogurt and we would make our own parfaits. But that's a part of prepping. And then at home, that's what I would do too. So we would have the oats or a granola and then we'd have the yogurt and then we'd have the fresh fruit.

01:07:25:11 - 01:07:52:18

Shunta Summers

So that's one of the things that we do with the children. We give them the exercise of putting their parfaits together. But on the go, you would have that ready to go. It is very challenging because it takes more time to cut up fruits and vegetables. It takes more time to look at all of the ingredients that goes into a product versus just looking at the big names that's on the front of the product.

01:07:52:21 - 01:07:55:11

Shunta Summers

It is very, very challenging.

01:07:55:13 - 01:08:16:09

Erin Croyle

Let's talk more about those challenges. Like you mentioned with yogurt. I know I ran into this when my kids were younger, where I would try to give them all that plain yogurt and then just put some fruit in it and maybe a little honey. And then they went out and were introduced to all the other stuff, and they don't like that anymore.

01:08:16:11 - 01:08:28:01

Erin Croyle

So what are some ways that we can prep and help keep our our children's palates kind of geared towards less processed stuff?

01:08:28:03 - 01:08:54:01

Shunta Summers

It's either be honest with you, it's so much easier birth to five and then once they get into school, you can't help. They're introduced with so many different things, like you said, with the yogurt, because the schools are going to do the prepackaged yogurts. And even when you pack your child's lunch, after a while, they're going to want some of the things that they see other kids have and they'll, Why do you have this?

01:08:54:01 - 01:09:26:01

Shunta Summers

Why do you have that? So it's more so of just honestly educating them early on with the nutritional value of the the foods that they're putting in their body, what it what it does like with my pre-teens, I have a daughter she goes she likes going to altar. But one of the things I say is instead of having to do all the acne and all of those things, if you put good things in, you don't have to worry about all of these bad things coming out.

01:09:26:03 - 01:09:50:18

Shunta Summers

So one of the things that I like, if you do drink a juice, make sure you followed up with that same amount of water. Little things you just instill in them. Yes. They may not always get it initially, but in the back of their mind they'll they'll go back to it. I had a parent tell me that she did all the right things and then their teenager exposed to very various different things.

01:09:50:18 - 01:10:13:08

Shunta Summers

And then, you know, they followed what everyone else did. And then later on, 1819, that's when they realized, hey, what mom was was doing actually made me feel better. And it was a lot easier to do. So all we can do is we can educate, train them, show them the good, the bad and the ugly. But be realistic about it.

01:10:13:08 - 01:10:33:21

Shunta Summers

Not just saying that, don't do this. We explain what what goes into them depending on their age so that they really do understand and so they can make that decision for themselves. I think that that makes it a lot better for them. And if they have more buy in, like I have a teenage son in high school.

01:10:34:01 - 01:10:58:21

Shunta Summers

So he was like, Well, I want to make sure my chicken breasts. So I said, Well, here is the non salt seasoning. So he was like, okay. And then I can add something else. Yes. So you're not adding salted seasoning plus any condiments or anything that has that. So you compromise. And so as long as they can understand that, of course you can explain that to our five or seven year old.

01:10:58:23 - 01:11:08:17

Shunta Summers

But the older the child is, you you try to prepare them for life. And so you you do it in phases and stages as they're developmentally ready.

01:11:08:19 - 01:11:28:12

Erin Croyle

I really love that you mentioned that. And I'm going to share my own story because I have three kids and my oldest, as I mentioned, has Down syndrome. Early on, he needed to gain weight. We're like working with the doctors to make sure he got all the food he needed. It was my first kid, so I had time.

01:11:28:12 - 01:11:49:23

Erin Croyle

It was extra egg yolks in the scrambled eggs, heavy whipping cream in the scrambled eggs. I would always add baby spinach to those eggs because you can't taste it. You may see green flecks. It's nothing. A little turmeric in there, extra olive oil here and there, avocados. But it was so interesting to me because my mother in law, for instance, was like, well, he has to gain weight.

01:11:49:23 - 01:12:19:22

Erin Croyle

Why aren't you giving him ice cream? And I'm like, because he's like, not even one yet. And I don't want him to want cake and cookie and ice cream. I want him to want the things that are good for his body, that are good for his brain. And I so often see that with kids. So especially when you're thinking intellectual disabilities, developmental disabilities, if you can help them, just give them all the good stuff early and I really kept the processed stuff out of his food.

01:12:19:22 - 01:12:42:16

Erin Croyle

Aversions came his favorite foods. Because of everything, I pushed our hummus and the only produce he'll eat is clementines. But I'll take it and I can make smoothies and mix in a bunch of vegetables. Right? I was able to build a really good foundation, and now I'm trying to introduce more foods back in, and I can get into that later with ideas for others who are struggling with that.

01:12:42:18 - 01:13:01:06

Erin Croyle

But I just feel like it's so important. But yet we see everyone around us trying to push the and again, I don't want to do diet culture, but some of it is just junk food in it and he didn't like lollipops and candies. He only liked chocolate. And so I was riding that wave as long as I could.

01:13:01:06 - 01:13:07:21

Erin Croyle

And it was interesting to me to see how many people tried to push like, you know, the gummy fruits.

01:13:07:23 - 01:13:09:21

Shunta Summers

gosh, yes. But why do.

01:13:09:21 - 01:13:11:20

Erin Croyle

People give kids gummy fruits?

01:13:11:22 - 01:13:40:22

Shunta Summers

I have no idea. No idea. I see. And that's one of the things like something like the gummies. My daughter has severe food allergies, so I had to dig into what makes those gummies. Even the gummy vitamins that they push, it has carnauba wax in it and that is a derivative of a tree nut. So that's one of the reasons why I don't do the gummies.

01:13:40:24 - 01:14:02:13

Shunta Summers

When she was younger and I had more control, that was easier for me. But now that she's older, I want her to understand what that does to her. So when she starts breaking out, when she does not feel so good, it's because of that. So she's making that choice. Even though I see everyone eating those, I don't want to because of the way it makes me feel.

01:14:02:15 - 01:14:27:06

Shunta Summers

So even with children that as they get older, they start having the food aversions, the core and the foundation that you laid. It is inherently in them and eventually it'll come out. But the one thing is to give them that time and space to try new things. But yes, Clementine's I'm all for it, you know, let's go with that.

01:14:27:06 - 01:14:56:10

Shunta Summers

And like you said, the smoothies, you're doing that. But it is very, very hard nowadays when even I mean, love it grandparents or other family members that don't share your same philosophy when they come in and they're like, I want to give them a treat. Okay, let's bake together, not let's take them out for ice cream and all these other things that just is not good for them.

01:14:56:12 - 01:15:21:22

Shunta Summers

That's one of the things that I tried to do, even in my own family, is just educate them on the importance of eating more wholesome foods because you you actually feel better and it stays on you a lot longer than those highly processed food where you had those sugar spikes and then you had those crashes and you just do not feel well at all.

01:15:21:24 - 01:15:46:09

Erin Croyle

You see so many different kids and you have been doing this for over 20 years with your foundations Learning Academy, seeing different generations. I find it interesting how little we know about nutrition. I see it with my husband who thinks certain things are healthy and I'm like, no, no, no. They need some protein for breakfast or else they're going to be hungry in an hour sort of thing, right?

01:15:46:11 - 01:16:00:10

Erin Croyle

How do we help with the mindset of parents and family members to understand and children? What we put in our bodies really impacts how we feel throughout the day.

01:16:00:12 - 01:16:26:14

Shunta Summers

That is that the challenge that I have right now. Just last week we had a child just he comes in at 630 in the morning and he is very amped up, not even in kindergarten. And mom brings him in bags of chips. But I was like, Hey, what did you drink this morning? I had some soda and he had candy on the way there just to get him in there.

01:16:26:14 - 01:16:48:17

Shunta Summers

But mind you, the child had been coming here for years, and I could tell that he just could not sit still. He couldn't do this at any other. And I had to call mom. I said, Mom, I know I maybe crossed a line, but can you help us out? We give him wholesome breakfast. Just please, if you can refrain from doing that.

01:16:48:17 - 01:17:17:20

Shunta Summers

So that be the first thing that's on his stomach in the morning that can help us and also help him once he goes to school throughout the day because he has numerous behavior issues. But it's because he is like amped up on sugar constantly. That's where it's very challenging. I try to do workshops. Not as many parents participate, but I want to get back into doing our little daily tidbit of information that we send to parents.

01:17:17:22 - 01:17:41:11

Shunta Summers

Some small thing that they can read not throw in statistics and everything at home. Just say, Hey, let's start the morning out with this. Let's try this, let's try that. Parents are a lot of times they're in a lot. There's rushing and it's just a lot, especially with the social emotional aspect that families are dealing with post COVID that goes hand in hand with nutrition.

01:17:41:13 - 01:18:14:13

Shunta Summers

So many people have had to move. Family life has changed on a permanent basis. Sometimes you have families that have had to move in with grandparents and everything. So that dynamic changes to when you tell a parent, hey, meal prep, they may not have the space or the capacity to do it. So you try to take baby steps now when you're trying to food, one of the things we try to do is we'll take pictures of the child so we can share that with the parent so that they have more buy in because they see it's their child that's eating that food.

01:18:14:19 - 01:18:29:19

Shunta Summers

And then we'll send home a recipe so that they could possibly try it as well. It is just very challenging. I will say as soon as you think you have it figured out, that's when the child goes and changes and you're like, my gosh.

01:18:29:21 - 01:18:31:08

Erin Croyle

Every time, right?

01:18:31:08 - 01:18:33:11

Shunta Summers

Yes, yes, yes.

01:18:33:13 - 01:19:03:07

Erin Croyle

Yeah. I feel like we're at a really tough point in so many ways. This intersection of post COVID or living with COVID after being isolated, but then also the economy is booming, but people are hurting. We've got inflation. Grocery prices are more expensive than ever. Families are working so hard, kids are exposed to so much lousy food. And on top of that, I love the anti diet movement.

01:19:03:07 - 01:19:19:23

Erin Croyle

I love that we're finally fighting against diet culture. But at the same time, I was working with a nutritionist for a while for my own sort of disordered eating, growing up in coming of age in the nineties that focus on being rail thin really does a number on you, right?

01:19:19:24 - 01:19:20:17

Shunta Summers

Right.

01:19:20:19 - 01:19:48:00

Erin Croyle

So there's a generation of parents trying to undo what was done to them as kids and a lot of that and the nutritionist advice to me was to give my kids access to whatever. And I don't think those nutritionists have kids. When you think about the recommended level of sugar and then what they get just in a school day or anywhere, I am terrified to even do the math of sugar amounts that our kids are exposed to.

01:19:48:02 - 01:20:19:22

Shunta Summers

That's right. That's right. That's one of the challenges. I know my daughter, she is very in tune with watching nutrition and she was just like, yeah, things change when Michelle Obama had that initiative in the push for healthier lunches because all of our good juices and all our good stuff is gone now. But it was very good so that they do have better choices in the schools for the children, but it's still not where it could be.

01:20:19:22 - 01:20:52:21

Shunta Summers

But I understand that it's high is really tough because of the cost of the foods. I know that the cost of food, it is really, really high. Right. It is very challenging for the prepared foods that the children have available to them in the school system as well as in a lot of childcare centers here. And then just imagine where a parent where you have to grab something and go just because you're constantly doing, doing, doing.

01:20:52:21 - 01:21:20:13

Shunta Summers

Like you said, I live it, you know, with the children, they have access to DoorDash, Uber eats all of that. So no matter what I prepare, sometimes they'll order stuff before I get home and I'm like, Guys, I had it already prepared for you. With all the food allergies. That's one of the problems that I have, is that you don't know all the byproducts, everything that goes into making of your food.

01:21:20:13 - 01:21:43:12

Shunta Summers

So you have to be very, very careful sometimes when they're there just feeling sluggish. And I said, You didn't put anything good in so you were eating nothing. But fillers is going to come out later on. So that's why you're not feeling so good. So from time to time we'd have to do like almost like a detox. I wouldn't call it that to them with my children.

01:21:43:14 - 01:22:10:03

Shunta Summers

That's where it really is challenging. I haven't seen so many children with so many issues with bowel movements and everything, and that's because of the food that they're getting in. They're not getting enough fiber, they're not getting enough of their nutrients and everything in on a daily basis. And parents like old, they don't eat vegetables. Okay. What what what can we do to try that to start that?

01:22:10:03 - 01:22:19:21

Shunta Summers

Don't just give them the option of only having the fruit. You have to find something or creative way of preparing it so that it's it's fun for them.

01:22:19:23 - 01:22:23:04

Erin Croyle

And how do you do that at your academy? You have ages.

01:22:23:04 - 01:22:46:24

Shunta Summers

What Actually, my passion is always with infants. This is the first year that we don't have an And so I start like at 14 months and we technically go up to 12 years old, but we stop at second grade. Those are the ages that we primarily serve. And my focus is really preschool, toddlers and preschool. So one and a half to five years old, those are a majority of our children.

01:22:47:01 - 01:23:00:04

Erin Croyle

And you have this amazing program or you're feeding them healthy vegetarian foods. What ways is that food prepared to get them excited about it and trying new things and all of the above.

01:23:00:06 - 01:23:26:16

Shunta Summers

We have our food activities that the children participate in. So when we would show them almost like the gummy candies, we would dry it fruit. I had the child friendly knives and all the little things like that. So that was an activity. They would cut up their strawberries, they would cut out the bananas and then we would dry it because they did it.

01:23:26:18 - 01:23:46:11

Shunta Summers

They were more apt to try it. And then when they took it home, that was the thing that they talked to their. I made this and try this mommy. And so that had more buy in. One of the things that we're working with, too is Virginia State, their ag department. So we're going to do almost like a smaller urban garden.

01:23:46:16 - 01:24:08:23

Shunta Summers

So the children are growing it because that's what we've seen, is they have buy in, they're doing it. They're touching, feeling and smelling it. They're more likely to taste it. That's one of the things that we we're very excited to do. So we have the raised bed gardens and all of that that's going to be popping up for this spring at my mother's center.

01:24:08:23 - 01:24:32:24

Shunta Summers

They do that too. So getting children to try tomatoes, gosh, that was like unheard of. But because they saw the evolution of the tomato growing, how they dug the seed in there and they saw it, the vines growing, and then they finally saw this little tomato that grew, allowing them to pick it, that had more body. And so they can at least try to say, hey, I like it, or I don't like it.

01:24:32:24 - 01:24:47:00

Shunta Summers

Not just because sometimes the parents would say, Well, either I didn't like it, so I'm not I didn't serve it to my children. That was a way of introducing new foods to the children so that they would be excited about it.

01:24:47:02 - 01:25:05:23

Erin Croyle

I love that. I am actually lucky. My 11 year old has always have a picture of me at the farmer's market when he's like nine months old and eating tomatoes with this big smile and his cheeks full. Yes, right. The growing him is so fun. You could grow a tomato plant on your dad. You don't have to have a garden right?

01:25:06:00 - 01:25:24:17

Shunta Summers

One of the projects we would do is, okay, you have a balcony because you live in apartment. Okay, put that out there. Or let's say you don't even have a balcony. We can put it on the windowsill and let's see it grow. The children really love that. And so that take home was that it got them talking about it, got the parents involved with it.

01:25:24:17 - 01:25:45:01

Shunta Summers

That made it exciting that some of the extra vegetables and a couple of tomatoes we would put out for the parents and they were like, I don't either. I said, Well, your child tried it. And then of course, when the child is ready to go, Mom, can we get one? It's still small steps to help the children and the fence as well.

01:25:45:03 - 01:25:53:05

Erin Croyle

Yeah. The thing is, it's you have to walk the walk. You can't just talk the talk. And I think as parents, you set the example.

01:25:53:07 - 01:26:13:15

Shunta Summers

That's right. And that's one of the things I tell my staff. I said, we're actually teacher parents to the children. That's one of the ways that we would get through to them was that we would introduce new things and then the children could go and explain this to the parent. And then that would encourage at least hopefully it would encourage some talk.

01:26:13:17 - 01:26:30:22

Shunta Summers

Even the vegetarian meals. There's a lot of ways to do it, that child friendly, but it's just depending on the ingredients that you do use that makes it more nutritious. And also so they don't feel like they're eating vegetarian food.

01:26:30:24 - 01:26:57:03

Erin Croyle

Yeah. So both as a journalist, I've studied nutrition and big food industries and then having a son with Down's Syndrome and ADHD and now a daughter that has ADHD, I've had to really teach myself, and I'm lucky enough to have a nutritionist at the Down Syndrome clinic in Boston who really gets it, because I think some of the families listening might like to see a nutritionist.

01:26:57:03 - 01:27:20:06

Erin Croyle

I know people who have, and some of the ideas are like, make a train out of vegetables, great. But that does not work for my kiddo, for kids who really have a hard time like my son. The other day, someone had a birthday party at school. They serve this Black Forest cake and my son loves chocolate, but it had two raspberries on it so he wouldn't touch it because there were raspberries on it.

01:27:20:06 - 01:27:49:00

Erin Croyle

Some aversions are really that big. Know what the nutritionist has pushed is that you have a plate of the things that the child will eat that are healthy and the favorites. But then you have just a tiny, tiny bit of that new food. And that tiny bit of new food is something that is also familiar to them. So I've actually tried since my son will only eat clementines, I put a little piece of an actual big orange, a regular orange.

01:27:49:02 - 01:28:10:03

Erin Croyle

I haven't really gotten anywhere with him yet, but he won't push the plate away. He just won't eat that piece. It really is a lot of patience and understanding and consistency. Yeah, I think to try to get our kiddos to really expand their palate and their mindset for food. Right? And it is work for parents.

01:28:10:05 - 01:28:38:00

Shunta Summers

It's very challenging because when we have younger children that come in that that are undiagnosed, but we can tell there's a lot of times I'm asking, what does your child normally eat? Especially when they don't eat very well at the center and we can't let them go hungry. So we encourage that parents, tell us what your child normally eats and then you see, okay, a lot of French fries, tater tots, those type of things.

01:28:38:00 - 01:29:03:24

Shunta Summers

I said, okay, those are highly precious, but it's also textures. So how can we introduce that and how can we incorporate understanding that we may set that plate in front of the child? We may have to have some alternative to back up because he still needs to have some type of nutritional value so that they can go throughout the day, but at least introduce them to something that they can at least see.

01:29:04:01 - 01:29:36:06

Shunta Summers

They may not touch it the first few times, but the repetition of it, you're right, it takes a lot of patience because that takes time for us to to be able to do that. And when you're talking about on a larger scale of having those children that have those foods and not only that they haven't been exposed to or introduced to those children that just don't like those textures, some children only want the softer foods or semi hard foods.

01:29:36:09 - 01:29:55:08

Shunta Summers

They won't touch anything that's too hard. So how do you compromise? You have to have some type of backup. So that's one of the reasons why it is a passion. But you have to work with the parents as well as you can say, Hey, your child tried this today. Can you try that with us or even give them a small amount?

01:29:55:08 - 01:30:15:14

Shunta Summers

This is what we did, because I've had parents ask us before, how do you prepare it? Because I can't get my child to eat this, that or the other. That's one of the things. And then having very thoughtful staff that we're going to have old school journaling so we can see if there's a pattern. So let's say they're not going to a feeding clinic yet.

01:30:15:19 - 01:30:44:17

Shunta Summers

We kind of need to see that pattern of what that child likes and what that child doesn't like so we can slowly start to introduce some new foods. So let's say it's a whole wheat roll. If it's hard, the child won't eat it. We have to soften it. You got to maybe sometimes cut it, cut into force. You have to try various different things just so that they could try to eat that new food that you're trying to introduce to them.

01:30:44:17 - 01:31:08:01

Shunta Summers

It is very, very challenging. Like with the cauliflower we had a whole what was the week of the cauliflower. So we did various different ways. I didn't let them shredded because I can find the child friendly shredders, but I showed them the shredding process and then some of them said, it looks like rice. I said, Yes, You get them thinking it's a learning experience.

01:31:08:01 - 01:31:31:05

Shunta Summers

It really, really is. It's a learning experience. So it does make it a lot harder because when you have a child with disabilities, you tend to want to stay in that safe space because you were like, I got to get this amount of nutrition in them and I know the foods that they'll eat. I've had parents that I had a child that had significant developmental delays and he was at a feeding clinic.

01:31:31:05 - 01:31:54:20

Shunta Summers

And then once he got off of the feeding tube and he was starting to telephone, it was a lot of processed foods. My time. He was in elementary school. That's all he asked for. I want my lunchbox. I said, listen, let's try this eventually, if we had him over the summer, that's when we saw the biggest change where he was able to eat our foods.

01:31:54:21 - 01:32:20:14

Shunta Summers

It wasn't that he couldn't. He was just so used to having the pizza Lunchables because the mom knew that's one thing I could get in them. He was going to be fed because weight gain was always an issue. I said, Let's try some of the potatoes and we'll add a little root vegetable mixed in there. And a mom's like, I never even thought about that.

01:32:20:14 - 01:32:46:05

Shunta Summers

And I said, That will help instead of the lunchable, you know, So trying to educate her as well. I will never, never forget that because a child now, he graduated high school and I see his father and his mom from time to time and so he does remember that we kind of said, we're going to try this because his parents never want him to try anything because that was their only child.

01:32:46:06 - 01:33:06:24

Shunta Summers

So they just let him kind of be in the driver's seat. So now that he's in college, he's starting to venture out on some different foods. You know, he's not there yet because he stays at home, but he he just remembers how much we pushed him. We'll try this. I know you like the banana, but he wanted it cut up.

01:33:07:01 - 01:33:29:20

Shunta Summers

I said, listen, what about if you hold it, maybe put it on a fork? So it was like, gosh, no, I'm not going to bite it. I said, Just try it. So I do understand even that action of biting it off of the actual whole banana, that was something just mentally he he did not want that. If it was cut up in bite sized pieces where he can grab with his fingers, he was fine.

01:33:29:22 - 01:33:35:08

Shunta Summers

So eventually we got him to start to eat the larger pieces. So it's it's very challenging.

01:33:35:14 - 01:33:41:23

Erin Croyle

It's complicated. And I think because we all bring our own food issues to the table, so to speak.

01:33:42:00 - 01:33:42:22

Shunta Summers

Yes.

01:33:42:24 - 01:34:07:04

Erin Croyle

That, you know, we're like either trying to not pass them off or accidentally passing them off. Yeah, yeah. We're talking about it too much and just there's so much pressure on food and there's research that shows that children, because they don't have control of much in their lives, will then create a fight with food because they can say yes or no to what they're putting in their mouth.

01:34:07:06 - 01:34:09:14

Shunta Summers

Yes. Yes.

01:34:09:16 - 01:34:16:18

Erin Croyle

So how do we take the fight out of food then, to make it just less of a challenge? Do you have any suggestions for that.

01:34:16:20 - 01:34:40:11

Shunta Summers

As a parent, knowing your child? And so you're just going to have to do a little bit of research knowing that, okay, just for like that, that child with the bananas, we're not trying to get him to try Kiwi or the sea thing. no, no, no. That was definitely out the water. But let's start small. Let's try a larger piece of the banana.

01:34:40:11 - 01:35:08:02

Shunta Summers

Let's try some things that has the same texture as the banana. Don't try to give them like a mango that textures to smooth to watery. They wouldn't want that. Just trying to do different things so your child can still be within their comfort zone. But try it. Try new things. I would never say mix the foods up, especially with food aversions.

01:35:08:04 - 01:35:38:19

Shunta Summers

That's not respecting the child's desire to have control. I just I'm a person too. I don't like my food touching, so I try to respect that with the children. So we'll keep everything separate. Now, if they want to dump it in the plate, fine. But at least you're having that control too. So even something as small as how it's presented, it makes a difference sometimes when you're trying to introduce the food, we have the whole food and we're letting them touch it.

01:35:38:21 - 01:36:25:06

Shunta Summers

Like, Well, we tried the Kiwi. They were like, my gosh, it feels so weird. But I said, Look at the inside. It is very different. So it's taking into consideration the small things to do to make a difference. Like the lunchable with the, the child that only eight that texture food. What can I mimic that is like that but it's a little bit more nutritious for that child so that they don't have to get a majority of their nutritional value from like a pediasure or and ensure as they get older, which I understand there's there is that need there but like you said, doing the the whole food trying to do have you whipping

01:36:25:06 - 01:36:30:22

Shunta Summers

cream into your eggs and things like that, that does go a long way.

01:36:30:24 - 01:36:54:12

Erin Croyle

It's important to to remember with texture, you know, even my neurotypical child, he loves blueberries, he loves tomatoes. But if you taste the blueberries, sometimes they're mushy and I don't want to eat them. And sometimes they're perfectly firm but sour. And I'm like, it took me a while to realize I would get frustrated because I would be excited.

01:36:54:12 - 01:37:19:05

Erin Croyle

I'm like, All right, I got your tomatoes and your blueberries. And then he wouldn't touch them. It finally has clicked that it's, these are kind of gross. And so what I do as a parent is if we sometimes get a batch of blueberries that he's just not into, I put them in the freezer and those are saved for either making muffins or smoothies or protein pancake, which we're big on in this house and things like that.

01:37:19:05 - 01:37:20:14

Erin Croyle

So I'm not wasting food.

01:37:20:20 - 01:37:21:19

Shunta Summers

Easier.

01:37:21:21 - 01:37:34:15

Erin Croyle

Because it's expensive or tomatoes. You can roast them and, you know, make something out of them. If you invest in a food and you're frustrated, your kid's not going to eat it. Think about how you can freeze it and do something else with it.

01:37:34:17 - 01:37:56:03

Shunta Summers

Absolutely. That goes a long way. Like you and like you said, with with the fresh fruits, you can't always tell when they're like you said, they're mushy or they're firm, but they're they're just sour. And you don't want to say, okay, I'm a throw it away. You definitely you can freeze it. There is no one way of doing this, honestly.

01:37:56:03 - 01:38:17:14

Shunta Summers

It's just trial and error. But you keep plugging along. If they can verbalize to you what they don't like about it, it is. Sometimes it's hard because they're just like, it's just yucky. Unfortunately, sometimes if they're at a certain age or a development that one time that you try it, that can have that setback that we don't want.

01:38:17:20 - 01:38:39:23

Shunta Summers

That's one of the things we just have to take them to consideration. Just say, okay, maybe we'll try that at a later time down the road, a couple of months down the road, but just know that it's not a permanent thing. But you have to know that you can't keep pushing, pushing, pushing because all it's going to do, like you said, that the child has that control when they feel like they have the power to say, no, I don't want it.

01:38:40:00 - 01:38:52:18

Shunta Summers

You do have to make sure that they have buy in too, so that they feel empowered. That's the main thing, is letting them feel empowered. But you don't want to cater to the wrong habits, if that makes sense.

01:38:52:20 - 01:39:13:08

Erin Croyle

it makes total sense. And it can be very hard, especially when you have outside influences and grandparents and family members who are pitching in and just allowing a free for all with certain things. It's really hard to undo the damage and it really is damage because it really can change your palette and the way that you taste things.

01:39:13:08 - 01:39:29:08

Erin Croyle

And yes, I notice myself, if I have been eating ice cream and my God, I love a good brownie, right? And then I go to have blueberries. They don't taste as good. But if I say, okay, guys, you know what? We've been eating so much stuff, let's just kind of do some unprocessed for a week or two.

01:39:29:08 - 01:39:42:12

Erin Croyle

And really, those blueberries taste like heaven, like the sweetest I've ever had. You kind of have to give your body and mind a break to have those. Yeah, it's really good.

01:39:42:12 - 01:40:04:19

Shunta Summers

Again, that's what I was saying when I when I had to kind of detox when we're just doing all the bad things and I'm starting to see that, that, that they are wanting all of those foods. That's what I said. Okay, let's take that break and just do the process for all just a little while. I say it has to be permanent, but it's important to get back to our basics and what we know.

01:40:04:21 - 01:40:08:12

Shunta Summers

Yeah. So yeah, I totally agree with that. And I've done that myself.

01:40:08:12 - 01:40:48:01

Erin Croyle

So yeah, one, it's important to remember too that there are foods literally designed and tested to make us want to eat more, to have a specific mouthfeel specific. In fact, I think it's Doritos and like certain chips, right? These food science tests are looking at the mouthfeel. They literally are making sure it's not too spicy, just kind of bland enough to make you want to eat a lot of it as opposed to when you eat a really good rich dessert and you're like, gosh, I'm done, because that's just a really good dessert and you're done.

01:40:48:01 - 01:41:15:22

Erin Croyle

But these foods are meant to make you want more and more and more. Yeah, and that's what we're contending with everywhere our kids go. And not only that, but like, our schools don't have a lot of money for food. And these companies literally design food to give to students. So we're talking Kellogg's, General Mills, whoever, very specific cereal bars to get kids to be brand loyal.

01:41:15:24 - 01:41:18:20

Shunta Summers

Yes. Want that. That's right.

01:41:18:22 - 01:41:30:14

Erin Croyle

How do we contend with that, if that's what they're getting fed? They're literally trying to be programed to want foods. What what are we to do.

01:41:30:16 - 01:42:01:23

Shunta Summers

That That's probably the biggest challenge because like even the preschoolers, they know logos, They know brand recognition, even before they can recognize true alphabets and words and everything. They know brand recognition. You ask them McDonald's, Taco Bell, you know, all of these places, they know what those images are, even if they don't know what the words are. And like you said, especially in the schools like you had, there are prepackaged foods that are all wonderful and colorful.

01:42:01:23 - 01:42:23:19

Shunta Summers

Like just last week I was at the food show and again, it's nothing wrong with it but to to see all the bright colors, the Kellogg's things that they were trying to push as healthier alternatives. All of this like Trix yogurt and all that stuff like that, when I know that there's other alternatives. And yes, the packaging is not as good.

01:42:23:19 - 01:42:43:16

Shunta Summers

And that's one of the reasons why I go to that type of food, because I don't want the children to I don't I don't want to buy into that brand loyalty. And then also that mindset that if it's not that, then it's not as good. That's one of the problems that we have with the younger generation, not just with food.

01:42:43:18 - 01:43:13:11

Shunta Summers

It has to be a certain brand name for it to be good. Not saying that the actual quality is there, but because the marketing was so well done that this is why this is so much better for you than anything else that makes a difference. My family and I, we go to Canada every year and one of the things that I had introduced them a couple of years ago was let's go into a Walmart.

01:43:13:13 - 01:43:52:01

Shunta Summers

It is so different. We bought home like Froot Loops, same company. I said, Tell me if you can tell me the biggest difference. the the packaging doesn't look as nice as the American. They don't have blue like we do. And I said, okay, so now that they're old, I said, Turn and look at the ingredients. They use beet juice as their food coloring, whereas we use red dye number five yellow and all that carcinogenic.

01:43:52:03 - 01:44:26:22

Shunta Summers

Why are we and it's the same company, same American company, why are we allowing that to happen for us Americans? But we send overseas the better quality So they literally their aisle for cereals is nowhere near the size as our cereal aisle is. And so that's one of the things that we notice when we say there everyone feels better, I say it because I know I'm going off on a tangent, but the government regulates sugar and salt amounts in all the foods that are sold in Canada.

01:44:26:24 - 01:45:10:15

Shunta Summers

So what happens is you can't get high fructose corn sirup, you can't get some of the things that we have. So at least if you did have the processed food, it was a little bit better for you. That's not available to us. For example, because I follow the Child Adele food program. I'll serve cereal once every two weeks, and it has to have under a certain gram of sugar and the children like, I don't know this and the other, but they are the brand name cereals that they make with less sugar that I can purchase, but we can't purchase in the grocery stores.

01:45:10:17 - 01:45:49:05

Shunta Summers

Why is that? So if something as bad as like, like Cocoa Puffs, something like that, I have the ability to buy it at 40% less sugar than at the grocery store. Why do we even offer that other alternative? So it would help our families that if they had to do processed, at least it was a healthier alternative. At a food show last week, Lady was like she was so happy that the waffle all we do the the food is all natural vegetable food coloring with same thing that they use over in Canada.

01:45:49:07 - 01:46:21:03

Shunta Summers

So that's available food service wise, but not to the general public. So I'm just like, my gosh, where are we missing the ball? I mean, food science, it can be done. We're choosing not to do it. So you have to be very careful of what you put in front of your children to eat. And so that's one reason why I do choose not to have the well-known brands of foods.

01:46:21:03 - 01:46:32:23

Shunta Summers

Even if we have a snack that is prepackaged, it's going to say a cinnamon granola bite, of course, is going to be less sugar than the post or Kellogg's version of it.

01:46:33:00 - 01:46:57:21

Erin Croyle

I very much am right there with you with my frustration on this, because you're right, Canada and Europe have much more stringent controls in Europe. Things like Mountain Dew, which has terrible food dye, terrible amounts of sugar, like certain things, just they are not legal, but yet we sell them here. Yes. I feel like as parents, caregivers were up against it.

01:46:58:01 - 01:47:07:08

Erin Croyle

And you mentioned the sugar content in cereal. So Cheerios like one gram of sugar, whereas Honey Nut Cheerios.

01:47:07:10 - 01:47:35:14

Shunta Summers

wow. And that's not even we can't serve Honey Nut Cheerios because of the amount of sugar. But I can get it because it's available with the lower sugar content. And I'm like, So if you guys make it, why not just do away with the really bad stuff? That's the thing I don't get. Like I literally can buy not the honey, not too many food allergies, but there's apple cinnamon.

01:47:35:16 - 01:47:53:15

Shunta Summers

But if you buy it in the grocery store, it is not credible. But when I buy it from the vendor, it is credible because they make it worth less sugar. I go figure, I don't I don't understand that. That's one of the reasons why we don't do very much of the the cereals. They're up for a little bit.

01:47:53:15 - 01:47:59:22

Shunta Summers

And then by 930, 10:00, they're crashing again because they're hungry, because the cereal didn't fill them. Yeah.

01:48:00:03 - 01:48:27:15

Erin Croyle

And what's scary to me is that for our children, it's anyone over the age of two is recommended less than six teaspoons a day. That's 25 grams. Okay, So if you think a bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios has 12, you're already halfway there. A 12 ounce can of Coca-Cola has 39 grams of sugar. And let's not forget juice, because if you're drinking juice, you're taking all the fiber out.

01:48:27:18 - 01:48:33:02

Erin Croyle

And so it just turns into sugar anyway. I mean, what do you recommend with the whole Juice conundrum?

01:48:33:04 - 01:48:58:22

Shunta Summers

Well, one of the things that we do well help to cut up the fruit that they can put into their water. Yes, you can do a 100% juice that doesn't have the added sugar, but it still has sugar in it. But as a parent, you can buy and you're thinking, I go to the store, I get Tropicana, because you're thinking, okay, this is wonderful, but there's very little of the real fruit juice.

01:48:58:22 - 01:49:20:22

Shunta Summers

And there is certain things that I really do try to avoid and parents like, well, I don't understand. And once I start explaining that to them how that can have an effect on a child's behavior, sometimes parents are like, my child is hyper. And this. And yet I said, Well, especially at one, two years old, when they're really, really young.

01:49:20:22 - 01:49:47:17

Shunta Summers

I said, Well, let us try to look at what their food intake is, because sometimes I'm not saying this all the time, but sometimes we can adjust their behavior with the food that they're eating and drinking because like I said, if they're coming in there with a big cup of juice, it's nothing but sugar. And then you also have the dyes, all the other chemicals in there too, that is just not needed.

01:49:47:19 - 01:50:10:15

Shunta Summers

That really does have an effect on them. So a lot of times I tell the parents, let's start with that, because parents like, well, they don't drink milk. So I just gave them juice and I'm just like, my gosh, you know, that's not the same equivalent to say juice is equivalent to any type of milk that's just not.

01:50:10:17 - 01:50:27:00

Erin Croyle

Drinks or such a hard one. Shunta What should we be giving our kids to drink? And I think there's a fallacy thinking that cow's milk is the best source of calcium. So when we're thinking about drinks, what's the best thing to drink? And also what's the best source of calcium?

01:50:27:02 - 01:51:03:10

Shunta Summers

Honestly, water and I know they get tired of it, but that's one of the reasons why we try different ways to drink it. They'll try, like in the summertime when we cut up, the pineapples put it in there so they could taste it, just have a little infusion of the fruit in there. That's what I encourage is the water and then with the milk, I'm it's kind of hard for me because I have to follow the child and L food program, but I'm not really a big proponent on dairy getting your calcium from even other sources of dairy.

01:51:03:12 - 01:51:21:16

Shunta Summers

Like you said, as long as is good quality yogurt, some cheeses, almond milk, you have your soy, your oat milk. I find that those are wonderful sources of the calcium. I really am not a big proponent. One cow's milk, although I have to.

01:51:21:18 - 01:51:47:18

Erin Croyle

You mentioned before you see kids with food aversions and kids who aren't yet diagnosed. One thing I don't think we even realize are that some of our children's eating habits can actually be an indicator of potential neurodiversity or developmental disabilities. A good example is my own child. I could just see a lot of gravitating to sugar and just craving that kind of food.

01:51:47:18 - 01:52:11:16

Erin Croyle

And as I learned more about my own ADHD diagnosis, I saw that they were looking for dopamine. And sugar is a really great, fast, cheap, easy way to get dopamine. It's not actually great, though, because not good for you, right? What do you see in your experiences of some of those food things and how they relate to potential disabilities?

01:52:11:18 - 01:52:50:09

Shunta Summers

So probably one of the easiest things that we can tell is that the child really does not want to eat certain foods a lot of times is the the foods that are too soft for like a toddler or an older child. They don't like the like the applesauce or the really smooth foods that they can't bite into. On the other hand, we've also seen where children don't like the textured foods they like, spongy type soft foods that they can like mash in their mouth without having to chew.

01:52:50:11 - 01:53:23:23

Shunta Summers

That's of the indicators to a food that is soft but not too soft. That's an indicator where there really is a true distinction, where the child's like and I don't want that because it's it's a little too crunchy or sometimes it's a little too soft. We definitely would see children that the cracker type foods that were harder to bite into where you had to bite and chew, that was another big indicator because that's a skill to learn how to bite and chew.

01:53:24:00 - 01:53:42:18

Shunta Summers

So when they would just mash it up or they would almost stuff food into their mouth, so it would be in pockets in their mouth where they would let their saliva break down the food. So they're actually not chewing, so they're actually holding it in their mouth. You know, sometimes parents would like, they're just holding their food.

01:53:42:20 - 01:54:07:08

Shunta Summers

They don't want to chew or they're stubborn. No, sometimes that's an indicator there's something going on. Yes. That they can't chew. Something is not connecting where they need to bite and chew and then swallow. That's one of the big things is textures. One of the things that I would see with the children that had the disabilities was the compacting of the food in their mouth.

01:54:07:10 - 01:54:14:23

Erin Croyle

Yeah. When you see like sensory seeking or sensory avoidant behavior, it usually means you should talk to your pediatrician.

01:54:15:00 - 01:54:15:13

Shunta Summers

Right?

01:54:15:13 - 01:54:34:13

Erin Croyle

And it's something more might be going on. So I think it's important to monitor. You know, another thing that's really common with a lot of kiddos is overeating. And so that might be dopamine seeking behavior. I mean, how do you deal with overeating without giving kiddos complexes about?

01:54:34:15 - 01:54:58:09

Shunta Summers

That's also an indicator with us where there's a signal that the child is not getting to say that I'm full now, that that definitely is another indicator. When their child is like especially a younger child, they're just eating, eating, eating. That would be a concern. And it may not always be that the child is overweight because a child and maybe burning calories fast because they're growing.

01:54:58:11 - 01:55:25:18

Shunta Summers

So a parent may not always see it as, they're overeating, but when they cannot stop and it's obvious that for this portion size, it should be enough, That could be another indicator to being careful, knowing that the child's age and there's going to be times where they will need extra calories because they're just going through a growth spurt, but just being aware that it may be fine for like a week or two.

01:55:25:18 - 01:55:50:12

Shunta Summers

But then once it goes on and on and on, that's when you need to start looking at maybe it's more to it than just the growth spurt. A parent was like, Well, they just can't eating. Then you have to look at what types of foods are you giving them, Because if you're giving them foods that are like empty calories, yes, they're going to be hungry in a short amount of time.

01:55:50:12 - 01:55:59:21

Shunta Summers

So are they really over eating or are they trying to compensate for the lack of quality food that they have gotten in?

01:55:59:23 - 01:56:18:20

Erin Croyle

Yeah, we both alluded to before some of those foods that they're made for us, even though they're heavy in calories or high in calories, they're made for us to digest and move through quickly to want more. Yeah, it's a matter of keeping in the house. I think what is best for everyone in the House. I think two more things I want to touch on.

01:56:18:20 - 01:56:40:13

Erin Croyle

They complement each other. So it's it's one what do you see through your work but also through your studies? How does diet impact how children behave and interact with adults and people around them? What differences do you see when you see a child's diet change significantly for the better or worse?

01:56:40:15 - 01:57:08:17

Shunta Summers

So when I see the child's diet change, let's say from a positive, there's times where the child is happier, less agitated, they can focus more so they're not just up jumping around like they can actually enjoy the moment that they're in less sick days. That's a big thing. There's less sick days because their immune system is stronger. They actually sleep better.

01:57:08:19 - 01:57:42:08

Shunta Summers

So when I see the diet change for the positive, those are the big things that are just telltale signs. They can interact with people, whether it's other children and other adults to a better extent. When you see the the diet change in a negative way, the first thing there's more agitation. And unfortunately, I think sometimes there's more diagnose or misdiagnosis of a child's adverse behavior when it can be controlled.

01:57:42:08 - 01:58:32:01

Shunta Summers

A lot of times with their diet, you have to do as best as you can. You can't help that there are certain things no person is perfect. But like you said, a child, they cannot express to you, to the adult. I feel awful. You know, I don't feel well. So when you asked me how diet does affect is not 100%, but it has a very, very high percentage on the outcomes of if a child does have a disability, how we can better help the child in the positive on that positive path to being a successful adult, to having a happy life, not saying that's the end all, be all the cure, but to eliminate as

01:58:32:01 - 01:59:09:21

Shunta Summers

many obstacles and barriers as we can so the child can really learn and thrive, and even the family learn how to engage and support that child along that journey. Because, like you said, is a journey we're all going through is no book on every single child we're learning. So this journey, we try to give the best step forward and the easiest thing we can do is through our diet is not everything, but it definitely does have a route in that child's outcome.

01:59:09:23 - 01:59:37:12

Shunta Summers

Is several children that I've seen like that that because they have such a poor diet, they have in their file, they are aggressive, they're hyper. Are they really? Or if we could make them a little more comfortable, like the child has problems with his problems. So then all of a sudden he goes to the bathroom and he can't control it because he has medication that has to go.

01:59:37:16 - 02:00:07:19

Shunta Summers

So that's a whole nother bear. Now, what are we doing to his social emotional being, that aspect of his development? So his diet now has poured into not only his behavior, his social, emotional, he can't interact with other children because he he doesn't feel good. He has an accident on himself. He can't recognize that, you know, So it's so many different levels to this that if we just do diet, it can help in so many different ways.

02:00:07:19 - 02:00:28:10

Shunta Summers

And I know that that that's not the end all be all because if you have a child that has various degrees on the spectrum, like you said, a child with Down's syndrome, one of my close friends, she has a child with Down's syndrome and my hackles all to her as well as you. It's so many different factors there.

02:00:28:12 - 02:00:52:16

Shunta Summers

But the one thing that we can help as much as possible is with the diet. That's a start for anyone to look at, like you said, is an indicator for any type of issue that they may have. But also, if we can see it for the better, it can really change a lot of things. I've seen that I've seen that happen so many times.

02:00:52:18 - 02:01:17:22

Erin Croyle

But it's also part of our medical systems where they don't stress to parents diet first, they medicate first. We are missing that connection to helping. And you think about sad when we think about sad, which is what we refer to as the standard American diet. Yes, right. I am anti fast food and it makes me feel awful if I eat fast food.

02:01:17:22 - 02:01:36:18

Erin Croyle

So it just doesn't happen. And I don't really let my kids eat it. I think this summer was the first time they ever had Wendy's and it really hurt inside to let them eat that. But at the same time, it's going to be everywhere and it's this tough balance of what do you hold back? And you make them want more because you restrict it and doing the best for them.

02:01:36:18 - 02:01:49:12

Erin Croyle

But we think about how food makes us feel. Think about that little growing body if we're not feeding it right and what it can do to their bodies and brains, it must be really hard.

02:01:49:14 - 02:02:28:08

Shunta Summers

Where I live, I live in Chesterfield, where my center is in Richmond. I look at it, it's so obvious a kindergartner in my children's school versus a kindergarten in many of the other schools, their average weight and height is significantly different. Diet. The families out here, they had parents like you and me. They knew the effect that proper nutrition can have early on.

02:02:28:10 - 02:03:02:14

Shunta Summers

So the children were much healthier, taller. They weighed more. They were just stronger. I see it all the time because I'm just like, wow, the children that are in kindergarten here, they're in Richmond. And I hate to say it for the most part, they're much smaller because they were raised on processed foods from birth up. I don't have statistics on it, but I know if I really pulled it, I just know I've gone through this one elementary school.

02:03:02:16 - 02:03:26:11

Shunta Summers

All four of my children, we were there for 11 years. We celebrated the first year. We didn't have to go to that school bus stop for that elementary school. All of the children in general were much, much bigger. I'm not saying smarter, not anything, just in the height and weight themselves from the average child from the city of Richmond that I, I dealt with.

02:03:26:13 - 02:04:00:22

Shunta Summers

And I know a lot of it has to do with the diet because the exposure to home cooked meals, preparing foods and just having the the education to know that there is a correlation between diet and brain development. That's one of the things that the people that are listening to your podcast right now, they are so much further ahead than the target that needs to hear this message because they're even listening to it.

02:04:00:24 - 02:04:33:21

Shunta Summers

The people that really need to hear this, they're not it. And unfortunately sometimes they're getting it after the fact because we know birth to five and those critical times, those synapses are being built, we're not getting that message to the population that it's really it really does need to get out too early on. And that's something I I'm trying, but I don't know how to bridge that because those are the children that really do need to hear what you're saying about.

02:04:33:21 - 02:04:59:20

Shunta Summers

The correlation about not having processed foods all the time. It goes into like not just the food deserts and everything, like in the convenience stores, the juices and I'm sure the juices, all the juices, the has no fruit juice whatsoever. And that's all that the children know. If you try to give them water, they're like, no, that's one of the things that I know.

02:04:59:22 - 02:05:40:14

Shunta Summers

For all the things that we try to do as parents, parents that are listening to your podcast, parents that know we're doing the best that we can, so we're trying to educate ourselves so we can then better help our children. But those children that really do need it, that's the only problem that I have right now is because that correlation where they can really change a child's outcome and it's not a true disability and it's because of their diet that they're being labeled and they're having to go through all these aggressive behaviors and all the stuff like that when it really is their diet.

02:05:40:16 - 02:06:24:04

Shunta Summers

So the children that have the true disabilities, the parents are educated enough to know that we we can improve certain things with the diet to avoid those things. But in an urban environment, unfortunately, those families just aren't as aware as they need to to be aware of. So what I think what I'm going to do is be able to start introducing my parents to these podcasts that you do create out there because they need to hear it, not just reading an article or a statistic, but to understand the correlation of diet and how it does affect the brain development for child.

02:06:24:06 - 02:06:48:15

Erin Croyle

What I'm hearing now, it makes me feel like we can do another podcast, but for today I have one last two part question. Everything you just said to me, I am right there with it. And growing up in rural Ohio, it's similar. In rural areas. There's a lack of food diversity. I didn't know what hummus was until I moved to D.C. I didn't know what pesto was.

02:06:48:15 - 02:07:16:12

Erin Croyle

And these are amazing, delicious things that are really tasty and also good for you. There are things that we can and should be doing to diversify our food for our children and for all children. So my two part question would be, one, I kind of jokes about what I eat in a day, but I really would love to hear what are some ways that we can help our kids start the day with easy food and some ideas of prep?

02:07:16:14 - 02:07:35:18

Erin Croyle

But also the other part I really want to touch on because like you said, for this particular podcast, it's probably going to be a lot of people like you and me listening and we're talking about parents. But let's be real. This falls on communities, right? And you and I are the people showing up and who have the time to advocate.

02:07:35:19 - 02:08:00:12

Erin Croyle

So I think of advocating at schools. I think about what's being sold at these stores. I think about what we're putting in food pantries, what should people be eating during the day, but also as community members who are bringing the things to sports events, who are talking to school boards, who are putting things in food pantries. What can we do on that end as well to improve the lives and minds and bodies of everyone?

02:08:00:14 - 02:08:24:08

Shunta Summers

Simple things like the children. Surprisingly, because I don't like giving a lot of carbs early in the morning will do the hard boiled eggs and the children. They actually really like that and it keeps on full for a long time. We'll do the scrambled eggs so that the children have that protein early in the morning so it gets their day going.

02:08:24:08 - 02:08:51:15

Shunta Summers

So that's one of the things we give them a whole apple. So at first, some of the teacher, like a two year old, get an apple, let them see it, touch it, and they actually enjoy it. And I was surprised at how many almost down to the core. So that was an experience in itself. So just exposing your children to is as much as you possibly can, knowing that first thing in the morning, focus on the protein, not the carb, that's the key thing.

02:08:51:15 - 02:09:26:04

Shunta Summers

So anyway, you can get a whole protein that hasn't been processed is probably the better route than like your cereals, bars or anything like that. That's quick. The whole proteins, I say that has helped us a lot. When I was with the food bank, I will say I loved their dynamic shift that they had gone away from. People traditionally think food banks, they give you all this sugary stuff, highly processed, boxed shelf stable.

02:09:26:06 - 02:10:01:19

Shunta Summers

The one I do know that I really can say that I liked what Central Food Bank has done is they have gone away from those canned shelf stable type items to they're working with local farms so they can give the fresh produce to families. All their produce, and then the whole proteins, not just the canned items. I have seen an improvement and even across the board, a lot of food banks nationally, they know that that's one of the things that people have this misnomer that they give a lot of the stuff that no one wants.

02:10:01:21 - 02:10:25:07

Shunta Summers

So they really do limit their amount of shelf, stable canned goods. And also they also knew that it was more expensive because they had to pay for shipping and the cost with the weight of canned goods. That's why they started partnering with local farms for their fresh produce and they start to see cost savings for their food transportation throughout the state.

02:10:25:14 - 02:10:40:09

Shunta Summers

That's one of the things I can say that I really do like that Central Indiana Foodbank has done with their shift from that traditional food pantry type foods to the higher quality foods that they're giving out to families.

02:10:40:10 - 02:11:05:12

Erin Croyle

I love that. And I just want to add some of the things that I notice you. Know, you mentioned the protein in the morning. You don't have to give your kiddos breakfast food. They can have leftover whatever. A lot of countries have soup for breakfast with a nice heavy bone broth. I would love to hear some more vegetarian options as well that are high protein because that's a struggle.

02:11:05:14 - 02:11:35:01

Shunta Summers

And it is a struggle for us because our proteins have to come from beans and cheeses. What I try to do is if in the wintertime when we have our soups, it has to be kid friendly. And that's one of the things that we definitely wanted to do. There's the dried chickpeas, and those are something that's a great snack when it has a light seasoning on it and the kids actually like them because they'll just pop them in there, like kick cereal.

02:11:35:01 - 02:11:58:07

Shunta Summers

But they're getting the protein, some of the beans and the lentils. They're high quality. Again, how is it made? How is it being prepared and everything, even if you have to start with the canned beans, that's much better than a fast food burger. We all have to start somewhere just knowing that protein lasts. So much longer. That stuff fuel that our bodies needs, whether you're big or small.

02:11:58:09 - 02:12:15:02

Shunta Summers

So giving them their protein, like you said, even with your protein pancakes, that's wonderful make it fun for your child. The eggs. Some children don't like the egg yolk. Okay. We'll give them the egg whites. They're still getting that protein. And I think that that's wonderful. Them.

02:12:15:04 - 02:12:34:02

Erin Croyle

One thing my child's doctor said to me recently, and I think as parents, we need to remember this. There's this big shift into being kind and gentle, but we still the parents, we still know better. Our kids brains are not developed and are not mature enough to make the right decisions. And you have to do that for them, even if they're it.

02:12:34:02 - 02:12:45:07

Erin Croyle

So saying no to food that we know is going to make them feel bad. We have to hold firm candy and soda pop in the morning or in general, like.

02:12:45:08 - 02:13:07:05

Shunta Summers

No, it's not needed. No, it is not needed. You are charged as being their parent and not their friend. Yes. You can explain as they get older why you do the things. I think that that that helps to empower them. But at the younger age, you do have to be able to say, no, just don't even have that around.

02:13:07:05 - 02:13:32:10

Shunta Summers

Like why is a five year old assigning soda and having a bag of chips and having candy first thing in the morning is acceptable because you want to get him to go out the door. Be okay. How about you? You have that conversation with the child. Why is he not feeling okay? You know, you can't use food as as an alternative, as a trigger.

02:13:32:13 - 02:13:59:05

Shunta Summers

I just I yeah, I definitely I do agree that we we do have to be parents. We're learning too. Because what I know for my younger two, I wish I had known for my older two. And the thing is I was really adamant with my firstborn No candy, no sugar. He to this day, he doesn't want the sugary stuff, He doesn't want sodas.

02:13:59:07 - 02:14:41:00

Shunta Summers

He eats a generally a healthy. And then my fourth child was just like, okay, so it was I just wish I had that same stamina. But we we're human. So we we do better when we know better. But we also have to know that along this journey, we have to make sure that if we are blessed enough to be parents, take that title and that job seriously enough to know that they are looking to you for guidance not to be their friend because they don't know, they're actually looking to you to say, Hey, this is good and bad luck.

02:14:41:00 - 02:15:00:12

Shunta Summers

They don't know there's a cliff down the way. But you as a parent, you can look further and say, okay, let's not help you avoid that clip. That's the same thing with the food. Let's them avoid the cliff and saying no may be the best thing, but also telling them why this just isn't going to make feel good.

02:15:00:18 - 02:15:18:16

Shunta Summers

You're going to have to break it down age appropriately. But explaining it, I think, makes a difference. Not saying that you always have to have a conversation all the time. Sometimes just firm what they need, but you cannot always be their friend because then who is leading? Who is?

02:15:18:18 - 02:15:42:11

Erin Croyle

And before we wrap, because we're going way along, I want to add one more thing to the conversation about community. I just want to plead to other parents you know, when we have events, let's think about what we bring, because not all of our kids have impulse control and know how to make the right choices. I find myself in a constant struggle because there's Gatorade and bulk bags of those mini chips.

02:15:42:11 - 02:16:01:12

Erin Croyle

And my kids, I want to have that. I know that we don't want to have bottled water, but If we're going to bring bottled Gatorade, we're better off bringing bottled water to share. Yeah. So let's start rethinking that. Let's start thinking orange slices or I know a lot of people are allergic to nuts, but nut packs or dried fruit, I don't care.

02:16:01:14 - 02:16:13:18

Erin Croyle

But can we help each other, help our children and make better choices in, those big group settings? Because your kid might be fine, but the other kids there, they might actually need. Yeah. Nutrition. Actual nutrition.

02:16:13:20 - 02:16:44:08

Shunta Summers

Yes. Yes. And I agree with that. I totally agree with that. And just to juxtapose, we had events that were in the city and those snacks were very different from the snacks of where I lived. We were traditionally we had it was a flavored water they had the the cuties they'd have like the raisin packets, they'd have sun chips, all of that stuff versus out there.

02:16:44:08 - 02:17:11:17

Shunta Summers

They had Capri Suns, the Gatorade, they bought the big Frito-Lay packs. And you know, everyone's like, my gosh, this is so wonderful, but which one is actually better? After a sporting event? You need the better choice. So I agree. I totally agree. And we are in this together. And yes, you're not putting blame on anyone. And You're not saying that my way is better or because I know I'm better than you.

02:17:11:18 - 02:17:38:18

Shunta Summers

We are a community that takes that village so if I know something, I'm going to try to share it positively with someone else so that maybe they can take that nugget. They may not take it all, but take that one nugget and pass it on. And maybe that will be that positive change that that pivot that they need to even have the awareness to know that diet does affect so much in their child's development and in their lives.

02:17:38:20 - 02:17:39:23

Shunta Summers

I appreciate this.

02:17:39:24 - 02:18:04:02

Erin Croyle

You, too. I appreciate you. And I cannot wait for our next conversation. And thank you listeners for joining us. Please, like, review and share this podcast of ours and tell us what you want to hear about. This is the Odyssey Parenting, Caregiving, Disability. I'm Erin Croyle. We'll talk soon.