A Conversation with Dr. Joanna Leidenhag

What Matters Most

A note before the significant stuff: you will notice that the intro and outtro are noisier than usual. I was not able to record at home in my home office with my regular equipment, but had to record in my office at work. It's a different location, and a worse microphone, and I will make sure to record at home again. And always. The episode itself sounds great!

Welcome to the seventeenth episode of season 2 of What Matters Most. I spoke to Dr. Joanna Leidenhag of the University of Leeds, who is currently Associate Professor in Theology and Philosophy at Leeds. She brings such a keen mind to the study of Christian theology, delving into topics like science and theology, creation, panpsychism, neurodiversity, pantheism, panentheism, and classical Christian doctrine. In general, Leidenhag is a Christian theologian interested in interdisciplinary engagement with analytic philosophy and with the natural and psychological sciences. She engages with Christian doctrines such as doctrine of creation ex nihilo, the incarnation, the resurrection of the body with the metaphysics of panpsychism.

Panpsychism holds mind and matter together. Panpsychism is the idea that consciousness is not unique to human beings or even animals, but comes in gradients as a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of reality. Leidenhag argues convincingly that such views are not odd and not at odds with Christian theology classically construed, but a way to understand creation’s value and its relationship to the creator. It’s also a way to keep matter and mind, consciousness, together, to solve the problem of mind-body dualism problem. How are we conscious and material?

There are connections with this view of panpsychism and religions of the east such as Buddhism and Hinduism, but this I think is a positive feature of panpsychism and something to be welcomed. Leidenhag also successfully, for me, explained the ways in which panpsychism is related to pantheism and panentheism, and how scientific theories, such as evolution, helps us understand consciousness and its development. Finally, in one of the most interesting aspects of our conversation regarding language and metaphor, Joanna Leidenhag explained how panpsychism helps us to understand passages of Scripture in which nature sings the praises of God. As a biblical scholar, I found this compelling. In fact I loved the idea of the mountains singing in joy and the rivers clapping their hands as metaphor that reflects the reality of all creation calling out in the consciousness of God best suited to each aspect of their unique creation.

We also discussed toward the end of our conversation neurodiversity, and autistic people, and what people with autism can teach theologians and the church about what it means to be human, a child of God, and members of the body of Christ. Joanna Leidenhag has published three articles on autism and theology to date, which I will link in the show notes:

• ‘The Challenge of Autism for Contemporary Theological Anthropology,’ International Journal of Systematic Theology (2020)
• ‘Autism, Doxology, and the Nature of Christian Worship,’ Journal of Disability & Religion (2021)
• ‘Accountability, Autism and Friendship with God,’ Studies in Christian Ethics, Vol. 34, Is. 3 (2021).

She is also working on a new research project, which she discussed in the podcast, God, Language and Diversity: Spiritual Flourishing in Neurodiverse and Multilingual Communities. I look forward to this new work. She has also written Minding Creation: Theological Panpsychism and the Doctrine of Creation, and her short popular level book called Creation and Ecology that introduces readers to the Christian doctrine of creation. In addition, she co-wrote with Dr John Perry, Science-Engaged Theology, which explores how theologians can use science and empirical studies as a resource within their work. And one more link you will find: Joanna co-edited a special issue in the journal Modern Theology on this topic, also called Science-Engaged Theology. I love the work she is doing and the doors she is opening to collaboration and to rethinking theology.

For more of her research, please do check out her academia.edu site and her webpage at Leeds.

This is theology in conversation with ideas old and new, theological and scientific, and I just love the work she is doing. Her research opens up a world of wonders, a world alive with consciousness at every level, and it is exciting. Who would not want to be a part of this?

What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.

Thanks to Martin Strong, Kevin Eng, and Fang Fang Chandra for all of their help and support in crafting this and all the other episodes. I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. In addition, the Cullen Family, Mark and Barbara, continue to support the work and outreach of the CCE, particularly in our lecture series.

Since St. Mark’s Centre for Christian Engagement seeks to enable the creation of a culture of encounter and dialogue, let me invite you into that discussion. Send me questions, send me ideas for guests, send me comments. Please follow me on Twitter @biblejunkies, or on Facebook, at Biblejunkies, or on Instagram @stmarkscce. Or email me or Ms. Fang Fang Chandra at [e-mail]. Let us know what you think.

I also want to ask you to help out by letting people know about the podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. You can also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. This lets people find the podcast more easily and lets people like you enjoy the work that we are doing. I think these are important and inspiring discussions and I would like people to have a chance to listen in!

Upcoming Episodes:

And now some news on upcoming podcast episodes:

Dr. Alexandre Martins of Marquette University on healthcare justice and his life that began in poverty in Brazil;

Dr. Hans Abdiel Harmakaputra, of the department of religion, philosophy & classics at Augustana University;

Mr. Inderjeet Singh, Sikh chaplain at UBC;

Dr. Jaime Waters, Boston College;

Dr. Sara Parks, St. Francis Xavier University, Antigonish, Nova Scotia.

Finally, some upcoming events:

May 17, 2024 Sister Damien Marie Savino will be offering the second annual Laudato Si’ lecture, Educating for Laudato Si at St. Mark’s College. Please keep your eyes out for more information – it is coming soon.

May 16, 2024, Sister Damien Marie Savino will also be doing a workshop on Laudato Si’ at St Joseph the Worker church in Richmond, B.C., so if you are local please look for that information.

Finally, the CCE is presenting a conference in 2025, The Promise of Christian Education: Past, Present and Future, MAY 1-3, 2025, at ST. MARK'S COLLEGE, VANCOUVER, CANADA. I will link to the CFP in the show notes, so please consider sending in a proposal for a paper. If you are a graduate student and we accept your proposal to present a paper, we will cover your conference registration fees and the cost of the conference banquet. Consider joining us in Vancouver in 2025. We will announce the names of our plenary speakers soon, but I can say that 3 out 4 of the speakers are now confirmed.

John W. Martens

Director, Centre for Christian Engagement, St. Mark's College at UBC