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Push Button Influence Video: Broadcast Your Brilliance with Alex Mandossian & Steve Olsher | New Media Influencers
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PBI 011: LeadPages And The Internet Revolution With Jeff Wenberg
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As Head Product Educator at LeadPages. Jeff oversees the positioning and marketing of new product features and releases for LeadPages.
Over the past 2.5 years Jeff and his team have produced over 375 videos about LeadPages features, generated MILLIONS of leads, and MILLIONS of $$ in revenue to help build LeadPages into one of the leading digital marketing platforms!
Tune in to learn as Jeff talks about how he builds a visual story in his videos, while engaging viewers AND driving conversions, PLUS how people are getting a 98% CONVERSION rate from email marketing!
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Announcer: This is Push Button Influence where the world's leading influencers candidly share their exact strategies for maximizing reach, accelerating growth, and generating massive exposure all by leveraging the power of new media. You can become the next Larry King, Oprah, or Howard Stern. All you need to do is broadcast your brilliance. Push Button Influence teaches you how. Here are your hosts Alex Mandossian and Steve Olsher.
Steve Olsher: All right, all right, all right. Welcome, welcome, welcome to another edition here of Push Button Influence. It is a beautiful Wednesday at 4:00 PM Pacific, which is the day that we always broadcast live. Joining me from down under, literally down under my co-host extraordinaire Alex Mandossian. It is actually Alex's birthday. Maybe Jeff later will do a little singing there because you showed us the guitars in the background, man. Now you're going to have to break out a happy birthday rendition for my man Alex Mandossian.
Again, welcome everybody to Push Button Influence. I am Steve Olsher. Today we are joined, Alex and I are joined by Jeff Wenberg. Am I pronouncing that right or did I butcher it?
Jeff Wenberg: No, that's actually spot on.
Steve Olsher: Yay. Okay good. Good, good, good. Jeff, I'll let you define a little bit more about who you are in a little bit here, but what Alex and I do every week here on Push Button Influence when we start out the show is we each begin with a word. Alex because you are in Australia right now, and man, you're not even backwards or anything like that, but is your word going to show up backwards? That's what I'm wondering. Let's see what your word is for the day.
Alex Mandossian: I'm ahead of both of you guys by 16 hours, and I've had two birthdays, one yesterday and one today. It's literally the 10th here. It is 11:00 AM Pacific time in Sydney. Jeff, you and I have never met personally. This is the first physical and virtual meeting, but what you've done with Lead Pages and what your partners have done have really changed the landscape. You're best known because there are a few different platforms that do kind of what you guys do, but you've brought the definition of this three part word, "Do it yourself," to the new media and online marketing landscape. How does, "Do it yourself," fit into Lead Pages, and why is it so important to have a do it yourself platform for newbies, tech dummies, tech challenged, and even people who think they're too smart for marketing, but they have pretested landed pages like you guys? How does that all fit?
Jeff Wenberg: Where it comes into play is just being able to empower, whether it's you or a team member to be able to get results quick. The basis of Lead Pages was breaking down the barrier for people to be able to create effective landing pages without having to go off and hire a designer or hire a developer to be able to make a simple landing page. It's basically about empowerment. That kind of comes off as do it yourself. Basically, everything is built around empowerment. That's how it all ties in.
Steve Olsher: Nice. My word for the day here Mr. Wenberg is this word, which might actually have complex ... Boy I don't usually use words with that many syllables, but that word is complexity. I have a question for you around how the Internet has evolved to the point where ... I've been online since 1993. Alex since 1995. We've both been online for a very long time, and we can both recall the days of bringing about 17 people to try to get up a three word website. It was this whole process. Can you speak a little bit about how we have really just leveled the barriers to entry and really removed the complexity of putting up an online presence that really looks good and converts?
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah. I think with a lot of products that are out there, not specifically just with Lead Pages, but a lot of new marketing products that are out there, they've really helped to let the people that maybe do have a better product, but don't have a huge marketing budget, they've leveled that playing field. They can get those effective pages or email service providers or whatever it is, and they can have as much of an impact as an enterprise company where they have 500 employees and a multimillion dollar budget. You can get the same effect. Obviously, there's still the money on their side, but it helps to level it a little bit, and then remove that complexity. You can actually achieve things without having that huge, huge budget like an enterprise level business would.
Steve Olsher: Yeah. Makes total sense. Alex?
Alex Mandossian: I'm going to shamelessly talk about myself since it's my birthday, and then I'm going to tell you why Lead Pages is annoying because it's so much better than what we did in the past.
In 2007 Jeff, I don't even know if you know these guys because I feel like I'm a decrepit grandpa, but Rick Radish who used to work right under Bill Gates and Armand Warren who's still around, we were running around doing the big seminar together. We were partners, and we came up with Audio Generator, Instant Video Generator, before YouTube, but I had my first million dollar hour with something called Marketing Makeover Generator. What it did was it was an A/B split tester. It put up squeeze pages and thank you pages, and based on that one concept in 2007, I haven't made a million bucks in half an hour since. We did it in 28 minutes actually. It's a great story, but it was the concept that was so amazing.
Here's where it's annoying for me because Lead Pages is 3.0 version of Marketing Makeover Generator, which is not around anymore, but you guys not only bring ease of use and do it yourself, but you bring Proven. You work with Proven. You're poaching Jeff Walker landing pages. You're poaching, even from your competitors co-options, why is it so important to work with Proven Pages? It may be a rhetorical question, but I don't think people really appreciate how Proven no longer has to cost other people money besides being do it yourself. Will you speak on that?
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah. It becomes important to use those Proven templates and everything to, speaking back to your do it yourself thing, it empowers you to start out on the right foot. Whereas if you come into any webpage generator, whatever it may be, and you have to create it from scratch it's like, "Well, how do I know what to do? How do I know what's going to work?" It's really hard to put it all together in a way that's going to work without having to test it all. Where at Lead Pages, what we do is we always bake in conversion that we learn from our clients and our colleagues and that sort of thing. Speaking of Jeff Walker, we work with his team to develop the pages for his product launch formula. We talk with Jeff, "Okay. What do you want to see in this version of the page," and build that in and then roll it into the Lead Pages product. Then everybody that uses Lead Pages can benefit from that proven testing.
Alex Mandossian: Here's the thing, you guys just ... I don't think people really appreciate the value of it because ... At least I know that my students don't, but you're actually crowd sourcing marketing intelligence. You're actually undoing, you're unwrapping the curtain, or unwrapping the package of what actually works, and what it does is it prevents losing money. That's what Lead Pages has. Speak to the proven templates that are there. They're not just there, and you're pulling out of your head or heart or other parts that we talk about, but the bottom line is these are actually tested templates.
Jeff Wenberg: Yup. A really cool thing for people that maybe aren't familiar with Lead Pages, we have an option that lets you sort the pages by their average conversion rate across all of our users. At any given time, it keeps them rated by what's converting the highest at any given moment. That way if you're building a webinar registration page, you can click that button, and it will give you the highest rated one at that time, then you can choose that page. Again, try and start out a little bit ahead of the game so you don't have to test your way to success. It's like, "Okay, maybe I can start with this base, and then test from a proven base." It helps with speed of implementation as well to just get to those results quicker, and that's kind of one of the most important things with any business is seeing results fast. I feel like ... Specifically with lead generation, that's one thing that Lead Pages shines at.
Steve Olsher: Let me ask you this because first and foremost for those who are just joining us here live on Blab, we've got Jeff Wenberg on from Lead Pages. Let me give you an opportunity to really explain to people what you do there because I don't think I gave you ample opportunity to do that yet. What's your role at Lead Pages.
Jeff Wenberg: I'm the Head Product Educator at Lead Pages. Basically, that means a few different things. What it meant when I first became that was I made a lot of videos about our products, features, and promotions to introduce our audience to those. In the last few months I've rolled into moving a little bit higher level where we're talking about how to position this product, or what's the messaging going to be for this feature and how are we going to launch it, and that sort of thing. Right now, I focus a lot on more of the promotion and launch strategy, and less on let's make a video about it.
Steve Olsher: Nice. Thanks for clarifying that. Let me ask you this because I've been using Lead Pages for a number of years already. Gosh, I think it may even be three or four years. When did Lead Pages first come out?
Jeff Wenberg: I want to say it's been ... It's probably close to three years.
Steve Olsher: Yeah. Okay. Yeah it was right around that time. Obviously, like the Internet, Lead Pages has evolved quite a bit. One of the interesting things that you guys just did, and I mean just did is you introduced drag and drop features. This is something that people have been asking for for quite some time, but can you explain what exactly that is? What it empowers people to do, and why it's so important for Lead Pages and your customers?
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah. Basically what Steve is talking about is we just released a brand new drag and drop builder. You can take Lead Pages' proven templates, and tweak them to whatever it is that you want to see on that page. A lot of times our users would be like, "Man, I love these pages. I just wish I could add a video to it," or, "I just wish I could add one more image," or anything like that, or maybe a countdown timer.
Now, our new drag and drop builder has all these different kinds of widgets where you can add a countdown timer, an image, you can move sections of the pages and everything. Basically, it lets you take our base of proven templates, and then customize those for your specific applications.
Steve Olsher: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Nice. Let me ask a quick follow up question here, and then I know you've got a bunch of questions as well. Jeff, let me just follow up to that with is this in response to the popularity of the drag and drop type features that you're seeing elsewhere? We can name names, obviously Click Funnels and there are others that have those features. Was this in response to that, or were you guys already working on these features? How did that come about?
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah. It's been a really long haul for the company for product roadmap and that sort of thing. I can't get into super specifics, but it was just like, not necessarily a response, but more of a response to where we saw the future of landing page generators and all that kind of stuff going. Plus what our base of 40,000 plus users were like, "Man, I just really, really need this." Weighing out the pros and cons of how much flexibility is a good thing, and how much ... At what point does it cross over to you're going to shoot yourself in the foot, but ultimately we weighed the options, and it was like, "Well I think we could do this in a way where we keep our tested and proven pages, and having things just work like Lead Pages is known for, but then also giving that flexibility to tweak pages to do whatever a user wants."
Steve Olsher: Awesome. Alex?
Alex Mandossian: Next question is I think what makes you as good as you are, and what makes you different from anything else, and that is the video tutorial. I've watched so many tutorials of yours, and one of the great gifts I think, and blessings frankly, is to do a tutorial in three minutes that could have taken 30 minutes. It's difficult to do. Sometimes it takes six or seven versions just to pair it down. How critical is the video tutorial to Lead Pages? For me, it's right up there with the do it yourself concept.
Jeff Wenberg: First off, thank you very much. That's a huge honor, and thanks for watching all the videos. I would say it's ... I would agree. It's almost as important just because it lets people envision what they could do with any given template or product. It lets them see the end goal, and envision themselves achieving that. If that's all they need to get started, that's cool, but if they want to have a ... "Okay, now I actually want to see what I need to do to achieve that goal," here's the tutorial that goes through it. It's kind of funny that you talk about it could be done in 30 minutes, and it's ... It really is crazy how often a video that we'll do ... We were doing a video every two days at the height of ... We're pumping these things out. It got to the point where it's like, "Man, I feel like there's a simple formula here."
It's kind of like knowledge bomb, benefit, and then go back, show how to do what they did, and then whatever you want to finish out the video with like a call to action of some sort. That formula really seems to help get all the information that you need across in a really short period of time. For anybody that is making tutorial videos that's a really awesome formula to follow.
Alex Mandossian: Steve, I want to hog this one. Let's talk about mobile Facebook redirects. That's my favorite video of yours, and Amy Porterfield you've given acknowledgement to and a few others, there's a huge pain with Facebook. They don't know how to make responsive headers, for the world's largest social network they're failing in that regard. You guys did come up with a solution. You really are a great in between. Speak to that, give the tip as if it were the video.
Jeff Wenberg: I've got to be honest. That was so long ago that I'm kind of drawing a blank. I feel so embarrassed to admit that. Are you just referring to the redirect-
Alex Mandossian: I'll tell you what it was. Lead Pages [inaudible 00:16:43] new landing pages with Facebook redirect. For example, let's say a launch has expired, let's say a webinar has expired, right?
Jeff Wenberg: Yup.
Alex Mandossian: Is that a good memory jar?
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah. Basically, what you can easily do is you can redirect all those pages to wherever you need it to go. It's as simple as turning it on and putting the URL in where you want it to be forwarded to. Again, it kind of puts the power in the user's hand so they don't have to go to their web master or whoever they're using to manage all that stuff. You can do it right inside the app. It makes it super easy to transfer all that traffic that you've generated and all that buzz from those pages if they're still out there. If somebody goes to them, then you can forward that traffic onto whatever, that new thing that you want it to be transferred to.
Alex Mandossian: I put the link for everybody inside of Blab if they want to check it out. It's a really good video Jeff. That was an A+. Thank you.
Jeff Wenberg: Thank you. If I remember correctly, that was really, really, really early on in my career at Lead Pages. Since then I think we've produced something like, probably around close to 400 videos. I so apologize for the fuzziness there.
Steve Olsher: It's all good man. I barely remember yesterday. I totally get it. Let me ask you this, and actually it's a great segway into, we like to introduce folks to good tools and resources that can really help their business and help really flatten that learning curve and get them to their destination faster. Talk about the tools that you used when you first started creating these videos, and the tools that you use now to create these video tutorials. Specifically, what did you use when you started and what are you using now? Specifically.
Jeff Wenberg: When I first came on board at Lead Pages, it was just me and Clay on the marketing team. It was super bare bones and very simple. That setup was I would record all my audio with Pro Tools, which is a recording software. Then all my screen stuff, it would be with Screen Flow. I would use Keynote Slides and a browser. That was it.
Steve Olsher: Now?
Jeff Wenberg: Now, it's gotten quite, quite advanced where they're using ... Now there's a video team where it's two full-time dedicated guys. They're using Screen Flow, Adobe After Effect for motion graphics, Adobe Premier to compile everything, Photoshop, let's see-
Steve Olsher: It's quite the process.
Jeff Wenberg: I think that's about it at this point.
Steve Olsher: Yeah. For those who ... Audio files, what were you using for mics back then, and what are you using for mics now?
Jeff Wenberg: I actually have my mic right here that I used to use.
Steve Olsher: Was that what your cat was playing with before we got started? That was-
Jeff Wenberg: No.
Steve Olsher: No.
Jeff Wenberg: This is a little Studio Electrics USB mic that I got when I bought the tools. I used this for years. Once it got to the point where it was like I just really want to up-level, I got this EV RE 20.
Steve Olsher: EV is which company?
Jeff Wenberg: Electro Voice.
Steve Olsher: Thank you. All right awesome. For those who don't know Clay because the question was asked, who is Clay?
Jeff Wenberg: Clay is Clay Collins. He's the CEO of Lead Pages. Just like the reason I am here because I heard of him and was just like, "Dang, that guy does it right. Totally, not scammy, it was very," I felt like I could put my energy and get behind this guy, and then low and behold here we are.
Steve Olsher: Yeah. Alex?
Alex Mandossian: Two part question. First, is the importance of improvements when you come out with a big deal technology? Improvements are a big deal. I have a Mastermind partner, his name is Kyle Graham, Ten Minute Funnels, you probably know him.
Jeff Wenberg: Oh sure. Yup.
Alex Mandossian: He's really big on improvements, and his software does drag and drop. That leads me to how does co-option come into play because there's a few competitors out there, and some overlap, some don't. How do you deal with improvements? You see a competitor improving and then you guys then may poach or copy what they do. How does that work in the real landscape?
Jeff Wenberg: What we're ... We don't try to copy or poach or anything. The main thing that we focus on is setting our own pace, and just ... What are the things as a marketing team or as a company, what are things that we want to use this for? A lot of times that correlates into what a lot of our users are going to use it for. That is more like what sets the pace, less like, "Oh, well this company's doing this and that company's doing that so we have to do that." What we really try and focus on is setting our own pace, and if that means that our users are demanding a certain thing, we want to listen to them and give them the best version of what they're asking for. I would say improvement are super important, but doing improvements that make sense and are the most important from a strategy and a product standpoint; where those two meet is probably the improvements you want to focus on.
Steve Olsher: Yeah. Let me ask you this, Jeff it's interesting because you guys typically make landing pages. Let's call them what they are, it's not a full blown website. What's really interesting is when I hear Tim Page do a lot of his teaching, he always talks about having multiple opt-ins on a page. That's a homepage. It's still a page, but he talks about having multiple opt ... We're talking 28 opt-ins on one page, but most of the pages that seem to do really well is from a conversion standpoint, as you rank them through Lead Pages have one call to action. Can you speak to why Tim is talking about multiple calls to action or opt-in opportunities versus how almost every page that's available through Lead Pages only has that one box?
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah. Absolutely. That's a good question and a good clarification to make. A lot of times what Tim's talking about there is when people are using blogs or websites. You want to have, on those blogs or websites you want to have as many conversion opportunities as possible. Basically, the thinking behind it is the more opportunities you give somebody to opt-in, the more likely they are to opt-in. Whereas if you only give them one opportunity, if that doesn't connect with them they might not opt-in. Then you might not ever add them to your email list. That's what he's talking about there.
Kind of moving over to what you were talking about with each landing page in Lead Pages having a single call to action is that those are standalone pages. If somebody's coming here, they're coming for this main purpose of this page. You want it to be super clear, and be a single do this. It's abundantly obvious what the visitor is supposed to do. Basically, that's kind of optimizing both.
On a blog or a website, you want to have all those opt-ins all over the place so there's entry points all over. If they're coming to a single purpose landing page where there's one topic and one point, you want it to be super clear like, "This is what I want you to do on this page, which is click this button." Does that make sense?
Steve Olsher: Awesome. Alex? Totally.
Alex Mandossian: Let's talk about crowd sourcing because when you come up with new product features you're actually asking your JV partners and customers. Let's talk about the rituals that you're involved in in launching new products or features because there's not guess work with you guys. Obviously, you guys have been funded, now you're kind of like a fish bowl so people are looking from the outside. You're responsible to investors. How do you come up with new features? You're just not guessing, you're coming up based on hard tested facts and research.
Jeff Wenberg: Yup. I'll speak to this on the best of my ability. Like I had kind of mentioned previously, a lot of it is what are our most requested features, and we have a forum where our users can actually go request certain features. We keep an eye on what our customers are wanting plus what we need to up-level our product just from a marketing standpoint. What would be cool if we could do, and then basically bounce all of those together to find out which ones fall in the middle of all three of these circles, and then let's focus on those. Then bounce those off of a subset of users to find out what the response would be. It's almost like testing success, if you will, but basically-
Alex Mandossian: Do you release it to a few users, or do you release it to the whole group?
Jeff Wenberg: It's not necessarily ... When we get to that point, the research proves that this is a viable product, so this is what we're going to do. It's not like we make it and then put it out to a few users to find out. It's like, once we do the research, we find those things that kind of correlate with all three of the different areas that we look at, it gets put into production. Basically, how it gets rolled out is a small group of early adopters will get access to it, or depending on what kind of product it is it could be just current users. It's kind of like a soft launch where we just let people find it, and then keep the port from getting a barrage of, "Whoa what's going on? I don't know how to use this." So do a little bit of a trickle in, let them discover it, start using it so we can get that feedback, fix bugs that are found that we missed or that come up after people start using it, and then improve that. Do an early adopter launch, and then do a full on public launch.
Steve Olsher: Yeah. Really good stuff. The advantage of joining us here live on Blab.AM every Wednesday at 4:00 PM Pacific is that you can be a part of the action here and ask questions. That's where we've got a lot of fun stuff going on. Cat has just been crushing it here on the questions. We're going to have a lot of questions from Cat when we get to Q&A, but a lot of really, really great points there Cat.
One of the things that Cat just brought up that I don't even want to wait for the Q&A to get to is that you've got these, let's just call them the core pages if you will or the four most important lead pages that you have, what are those because there are so many different ways to go, what do you define as the most important pages that somebody should have?
Jeff Wenberg: Basically, you should have some sort of opt-in page where people can opt-in to continue some sort of communication with you. That's kind of like the landing page/marketing 101. Have that opt-in page. From there, a lot of times what will happen is when you opt-in, you'll just get the, "Cool thanks." The conversation ends there.
A second page would be a thank you page. From there what you can do, since people are super excited about communicating with you and getting your lead magnet, what we often recommend is doing some sort of thank you page where they can continue the action.
Steve Olsher: What does that look like and sound like and feel like?
Jeff Wenberg: What we recommend a lot is either doing a webinar registration thank you page if you do webinars, or doing a social share page where they can share the original offer on their social media because chances are if they're into something, they're probably going to know other people that are also into it. It kind if leverages their audience to get you more email subscribers.
Steve Olsher: What are the other pages?
Jeff Wenberg: Another really huge page, it's a completely missed opportunity, is the 404 page. Basically, what that is when somebody goes to your website and the URL is broken, or maybe it was shared on social media and the URL was typed in wrong, they go to your website and they see a page where it's just like something's broken. Uh oh. That's actually a huge conversion opportunity and let's you catch all that traffic that's probably going to call off your website because typically when that happens, unless they really want what you're offering, they're probably just going to be like, "Well, whatever," and move onto the next thing. What you can do on that page is you can offer some sort of lead magnet, whether it's a video course, eBook, free report, whatever it may be. You can offer something of value of that page and capture some portion of that traffic that's probably just going to disappear. It lets you plug that hole a little bit.
Let's see. I'm trying to think of the fourth page. Pretty it's webinar registration pages. Basically, that entails doing webinars. Webinars have actually been one of the things that has seen our business grow, and contributed to the growth of Lead Pages. A lot of people, they hear, "Oh, doing webinars," it's so much work and it's so crazy and everything, but a lot of times you can start out with Q&A stuff and record those, practice, get to interact with your audience like we're doing tonight with all the questions and everything. Kind of figure out what they want to know about, and then you can build a webinar off of that, and then start doing that webinar with the webinar registration page.
Steve Olsher: Awesome. Alex?
Alex Mandossian: I want to pick a fight, all right. This is martial arts marketing. There we go. Squeeze page versus thank you page. There's so much focus on the squeeze page, and a thank you page can be after an order, after a squeeze page, just after taking action. My opinion is the thank you page is far more important because 100% of the people have taken action, whereas a squeeze page or landing page, if you're really good 50% are about to take action. I want to go to both of you guys. First Jeff, what's more important and why? If you had to choose 51% is more important, just a little bit, what would you say and why? Don't let me influence you.
Jeff Wenberg: Can I ask a follow up question?
Alex Mandossian: Yeah of course, it's your show.
Jeff Wenberg: Would we be specifically saying one landing page versus one thank you page, or are we talking if you have a blog and other stuff that's outside of this one landing page.
Alex Mandossian: No, what we're talking about ... Most people here watching are thinking, "How do I get more leads?" Right?
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah.
Alex Mandossian: They'll focus their entire week on creating the squeeze page and getting every pixel right, and then it will say thank you on the thank you page. Right?
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah. Yeah. That's ... I feel like if I had to pick one, I would pick creating ten landing pages. Not just one. Basically, the reason I say that is if you can't get anyone to you thank you page, what good is a thank you page? That said, when you do get them there, like you said, you want to have a really, really good thank you page to engage with them since like you said 100% of people did take action to get there.
Alex Mandossian: Here's another question. What's worse, a shitty landing page or a shitty thank you page? What's worse?
Jeff Wenberg: I would say if the shitty landing page is working, then cool. The shitty thank you page would be worse. Basically, if you could take anything away, it would be give your audience something more to do on your thank you page than just saying, "Hey cool, thanks. Peace out."
Alex Mandossian: That's the purpose of the question, so thank you. Steve what do you think?
Steve Olsher: You know what? I don't even want to touch that because that's an MMA fight I don't want to be in the middle of. Thank you pages versus squeeze pages versus all that fun stuff, but it kind of leads towards this question which is talking about conversion rates because you do sort by conversion rates. Ladies and gentlemen, this isn't meant to be an infomercial for Lead Pages. Obviously Lead Pages has insight that we can all leverage, and that's why we're going down this path here.
Talk about conversion rates in terms of ... You've seen, obviously, some really high percentage rates. I'd love to hear some of those amazing examples of conversion rates, but I'd also like to kind of follow up on Alex's point and question, which is interestingly enough some of the ugliest pages on God's green earth seem to do fairly well from a conversion standpoint. Here you guys are, you're spending all of this money, you're investing all of this time and energy and resources to make it so that it's super pretty for the folks who use your products, and yet some of the ugliest pages in the world do really, really well.
First speak to ugly versus beautiful, and then give us something to aspire to as far as what you've seen on the conversion rate percentage front.
Jeff Wenberg: First part of the question, ugly versus beautiful, it's kind of like one of those things where if you find an ugly page works. I would say use that page over a beautiful page because ultimately it's all about getting people into your funnel and getting them interacting with you. Whatever works, go for it. The beauty kind of comes into it is from a branding point. If you ...
Clay has a lot of times talked about how design is the new copyrighting. It's almost like a branding play too. If you have a really good looking page that you can get to convert well, it's always going to be perceived better than some "Eww, this kind of looks a little iffy here, I don't know if I want to enter my email." Even though they might still enter their email to get whatever you're offering, there is a tad bit of, "Wow this looks legit. I want to get what they're offering, so I'm going to enter it in there." It's kind of like ... I do think you just got to find for your particular business what works for that business to convert the most people. If it's ugly, use it. If it's beautiful use it. Whatever works.
What was the second part of the question?
Steve Olsher: What's possible? What can people aspire to? What have you seen out there in terms of percentage rates?
Jeff Wenberg: It's kind of crazy. I don't have specific numbers right off the top of my head, but I do remember on a lot of our webinar registration pages people are getting 70% to 80% conversion rates.
Steve Olsher: What's that ... Let's do this, what's the baseline? What's the over, under? If you're doing not a really good job, then you're going to be on this side, and if you're doing a pretty good job and a great job, then you're on that side. What's the over, under that people should be thinking about so that when they're testing their pages they know this is good or this is not good.
Jeff Wenberg: I think it kind of depends on your traffic source. There's a few different ones. If they know you, and they've been exposed to your content, and they have some relationship with you, you can expect a higher conversion rate just because of that fact.
Steve Olsher: What does that look like, sound like? Is that 80% if it's your own warm traffic?
Jeff Wenberg: I'm trying to think. We were just chatting about this the other day. Let me circle back around to that. The cold traffic, I do remember just from straight cold traffic, something decent is anywhere 10% or lower where it's just kind of like you're doing well if that's the case.
Basically, I'll say the more engaged or the more they know you, the more you can expect in a conversion rate. I know that doesn't give you a specific number-
Steve Olsher: It doesn't.
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah, but I don't have a specific number right off the top of my head unfortunately.
Steve Olsher: No worries. We'll do a followup eBook. We'll expect you guys to produce that and send it to use for Push Button Influences soul use.
Jeff Wenberg: Just as some numbers that I have seen, these aren't, "This is the usual. This is what to expect." Like I've said, we've seen some webinar registration pages converting at 70% to 80%, and that's not crazy unheard of for these pages. We hear about that a lot of time, but there again, that's not taking into account any sort of traffic source or anything like that. That's just one number that I do remember. A lot times for any given page, just when I've been dinking around the back end of ... Helping customers figure stuff out, I've seen average for any given page 40% to 50%. That's kind of taking a peak at their account while I'm trying to figure out some stuff on the back end for them.
Steve Olsher: I'm sorry I put you on the spot there man. I'm not trying to throw you under the bus, and I recognize you're on one part of the Lead Pages world. Access to those numbers, not trying to make you look bad here man.
Jeff Wenberg: No worries.
Steve Olsher: Absolutely. Alex, I think because I've done a really good job of not helping our guest out here, why don't you take this to another level with him.
Alex Mandossian: All right. I want to go to inner game because you guys have had massive success. [inaudible 00:40:17] in your marketing years, and 21 years in physical years. As a result of wild success, sometimes it creates massive wildfires of destruction without having that intention. Just so people who are starting or thinking about creating an app or Software as a Service some kind of a SaaS play, which everyone watching right now has an aspiration to do, speak to something that you guys had to overcome that looked like a disaster, but with some moral fiber and leadership, you overcame it. Get as personal as you can because some people watching right now really need to hear stories like this because they're right in the middle of the muck, and their drudgery of trying to overcome this. We're about to do a launch, it's like the calm before the storm, and I'm warning Steve. We just need to hear it. Give us a juicy story that is [inaudible 00:41:16].
Jeff Wenberg: One that comes to mind, and this is probably a year and a half maybe two years ago when we were a much smaller team, the marketing team was actually on a retreat in North Minnesota up on Lake Superior. We were up there hanging out, and Clay got an email that was like, "Send us $100,000 or we're going to attack your website." He was just like, “pfft”, thinking it was some joke. The next day we had a DDoS attack, which basically. I don't really know the technical aspect behind that, but basically somebody somewhere in the world did something to the Lead Pages domain that basically caused it to crash. It was like, "Oh God, what are we going to do?" Luckily, our engineering team is so awesome. They were in ... I think that was on a Sunday. They were in overnight, basically, got it back up. We were only down for maybe eight hours, which that sounds like a long time, but actually it was fixed fairly quick.
That was the first thing where it was just like this was the first time anything major like this has happened. It was like, "Okay, everybody," ... Everybody was like, "I don't care. What needs to be done? I'm going to go do that to make it happen." What we did was, I loved this when the idea came up, is we ended up doing a promotion around it, where we announced that it happened, we did go down, but because we wanted to make it up to everybody that might have wanted to get in while that was happening, we had a promotion where ... I can't remember what the exact promotion was, but we made it a benefit instead of having it be like, "Ugh, somebody just attacked our website and it went down and we lost all these sales," and all these negatives, we flipped it and made it a positive.
I think the moral of the story, if you will is always see if you can flip somehow, and take something that's a negative and find the positive in it because not only will your audience probably appreciate it more, and it will make you a little more human, which people respond to that a lot more than being a faceless corporation, but that can also be a building block for some new direction of your company.
Alex Mandossian: In other words, if you got the attention, sell something.
Jeff Wenberg: Yeah. Sure. Absolutely.
Steve Olsher: Alex, it's hard to believe man, but we're at a quarter 'til now, and this is usually the time where we go into the green room on the back end here, and allow those who have joined us live to ask our guest their questions. We have a lot of questions, and we definitely want to give people ample opportunity there to have them answered. Alex, anything else you want to add before we drop into the green room?
Alex Mandossian: Yeah Jeff, an unreasonable question, but what's the future look like for the Lead Pages category of software?
Jeff Wenberg: You're going to laugh, but it looks awesome. Specifically, it's going to be mind blowing. I think it's going to be game changing. With the new drag and drop builder, plus center that's coming out. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's the command center that sits on top of all of your marketing stack. You can control it all from one spot, and it's going to be a game changer. Like I said, I think it looks awesome.
Steve Olsher: Terrific. All right Jeff, here's what we do on Push Button Influence, is we sing Alex happy birthday. Go get your guitar man, right now.
Jeff Wenberg: I have to admit, I never learned to play Happy Birthday on guitar.
Steve Olsher: You sing when you play your guitar right?
Jeff Wenberg: Yes.
Steve Olsher: All right. Here we go. You got to do it. All right. Ready. All right. Here we go. You going to do it? Yeah. There we go. If I do it, it's going to be really bad. Jeff's going to go grab his guitar. Look at this, whatever cords you play man, as far as I'm concerned ... Whatever I was just saying while you put your head buds back in there, whatever cords you play, it's going to sound good to me. Lead us through here on the Happy Birthday for Mr. Alex Mandossian who turned 28 today.
Jeff Wenberg: 28, all right. Looking good.
Steve Olsher: 28.
Jeff Wenberg: All right.
Steve Olsher: All right. Here we go. Ready?
Jeff Wenberg: 1, 2, 3. Happy Birthday to you.
Steve Olsher: Happy Birthday to you.
Jeff Wenberg: Happy Birthday to you.
Steve Olsher: Happy Birthday to you.
Jeff Wenberg: Happy Birthday dear Alex.
Steve Olsher: Happy Birthday Mr. Mandossian.
Jeff Wenberg: Unplug those ears.
Steve Olsher: Happy Birthday to you. Yeah! All right. Thanks for the guitar. Thanks leaving me out to dry there man, appreciate that.
Jeff Wenberg: That was an air guitar.
Steve Olsher: I don't even know why you got the guitar.
Jeff Wenberg: He needed a [inaudible 00:46:12].
Steve Olsher: Really, really, really good props there. Thank you for that.
Jeff Wenberg: If you ever forget what you're doing, just make it look cool. I was trying.
Steve Olsher: Nice, all right awesome. Jeff Wenberg from Lead Pages, the Head Educator extraordinaire. Thank you very much for joining Alex Mandossian and myself, Steve Olsher here on this week's episode of Push Button Influence. Next week we're going to have James Schramko on. That should be a lot of fun. We've got other interesting guests coming up as well including the rescheduling of Peter Shankman. We're going to have him back on and others as well. Remember join us every Wednesday at 4:00 PM Pacific live so you can ask our amazing guests your questions, and we are going to drop into the green room here so that we can answer those for the folks that are here with us live. Again, Jeff thank you so much for joining us. Alex Mandossian, Happy Birthday, and it's been a pleasure spending this hour with you here on your birthday.
Jeff Wenberg: Thank you so much everybody.
Steve Olsher: We're going to play some fancy exit music here. I'm Steve Olsher, we'll talk to you next time on Push Button Influence.
Announcer: You just learned how to broadcast your brilliance. Tune in live to Blab.IM Wednesdays at 4:00 PM Pacific as the world's leading influencers share their proven strategies for leveraging the power of new media. For more information about your hosts Alex Mandossian and Steve Olsher, to claim your free surprise gift, and to access every episode of Push Button Influence visit pushbuttoninfluence.com.
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