Interview with Clay Stafford – S. 10, Ep. 2

The Crime Cafe

This week’s episode of the Crime Cafe podcast features my interview with crime writer and entrepreneur Clay Stafford.

Check out the plans for the upcoming Killer Nashville conference!

Before I bring on my guest, I’ll just remind you that the Crime Cafe has two eBooks for sale: the nine book box set and the short story anthology. You can find the buy inks for both on my website, debbimack.com under the Crime Cafe link. You can also get a free copy of either book if you become a Patreon supporter. You’ll get that and much more if you support the podcast on Patreon, along with our eternal gratitude for doing so.

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The transcript can be downloaded here.

Debbi: Hi everyone. Our guest today is a return visitor. Along with being a bestselling and award-winning author, he’s a poet, screenwriter, and playwright. He’s also founder and CEO of Killer Nashville. It’s my pleasure to have with me again as this week’s guest. Clay Stafford. Hi, Clay. How are you doing?

Clay: Hi, Debbi. Doing well. Absolutely wonderful.

Debbi: Wonderful. You’re looking good there.

Clay: Well, thank you.

Debbi: Looking good. It’s always nice to know. The farther we get along in age, it’s nice to know you’re still looking good at least. Shall we talk about what’s coming up at Killer Nashville then?

Clay: So you’re just leaving it wide open then, what’s coming up?

Debbi: Yeah. What’s special coming up, let’s say?

Clay: Well, every year it changes, and this year I truly do think it’s going to be the best one yet so far, and we’re coming up on – what is it – it’s the 18th year or something.

Debbi: 18th or 19th, I was going to say

Clay: Maybe 19th, but we’re getting close to that two decade point. I think the lineup … I’m currently finalizing the schedule – should have it online very quickly, and it’s going to be, I think, a wonderful year.

Debbi: That’s excellent. That’s good to hear. I happened to notice that one of your offerings was a mock crime scene, which I thought was kind of cool. Is that like a display, or do people get to interact with it?

Clay: We actually used to do that all the time, and then Dan Royce, who was the assistant director of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, always put that on. This last year and the year before, he did not do it just because I think he’d been doing it for 15 whatever years and decided to take a break. But he has told me that he is coming back with another crime scene. It’s basically an interactive crime scene where people try to actually solve the crime, and it looks like it’s the same training methods that are used with the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation and the FBI and all of the other agencies. Each attendee who wants to try to solve the crime, the winner gets a heavily discounted attendance for next year for Killer Nashville.

But it’s a tricky business and it’s always been a lot of fun. We’ve learned over the years how to be able to handle that, because one year we just set up the crime scene and some attendees at a hotel we were at at the time came by and happened to look in, and it looks very realistic – blood and brain matter and everything all around – and they called 9-1-1. The next thing we know, we have police officers and medical people all showing up, and they’re telling us to get out of the way, and then of course, they’re going over to look at the dummy, and then I guess they kind of feel like maybe a dummy. But we’ve now set it aside so that it’s not right in front of other people who are not—

The hotel we’re using – Embassy Suites in Cool Springs, Franklin – we actually have sold out the whole hotel, so it should be all crime writers who are there, so there should not be any danger of the 9-1-1 team showing up. I’m hoping Dan will come through with us on that. He said he is working on an idea, so hopefully we’ll have that ready to go.

Debbi: Well, that’s very cool. Very interesting story too. I could just imagine what that was like.

Clay: Oh, we’ve had several of those kinds of incidents, but it’s nice that people are conscientious in calling the authorities when they see a problem.

Debbi: Yes. Just out of curiosity, have you ever considered having programming for screenwriters?

Clay: We do offer a session. Now being a screenwriter myself as well as writing in other media, the method of storytelling is pretty, pretty close. But yes, we again have a session on screenwriting this year. The Tennessee Screenwriters’ Association is actually being a sponsor of that, and so we’ve got professional screenwriters who have some pretty good Hollywood credits who are going to be giving presentations on screenwriting this year.

Debbi: That’s very cool.

Clay: What we usually do is try to have something on all of the media we use. Sometimes we even have things on poetry in the tradition of Poe and Stephen King and other people who write poetry. I don’t know if you know Stephen King wrote poetry, but he does write poetry, and so we offer various mediums from playwriting to screenwriting to poetry. We’re doing several panels on nonfiction this year and presentations as well as writing true crime. Really focusing a good deal on true crime this year because it seems to be something that a lot of people are interested in. I take a lot of polls of the people on the mailing list of what do you want this year? Because really I’m trying to create a conference that’s for the people who are coming, and true crime and memoir is – we’re having something on memoir as well – and so all those together, we pretty much cover the gamut of the mediums that are available. But like I said, the storytelling is pretty much the same. It’s the formatting and what you can offer in screenwriting as you know. For example, you know it’s just a visual and audio thing. You can’t get inside the character’s head. If you do, you’re still doing visual and audio, and so it’s a different writing than writing for a novel, and we discuss all of that.

What we usually do is try to have something on all of the media we use. Sometimes we even have things on poetry in the tradition of Poe and Stephen King and other people who write poetry.

Debbi: For sure. You’re also publisher and editor-in-chief of Killer Nashville Magazine.

Clay: Yes. Very proud of that magazine and the work that everybody has done with it.

Debbi: I was going to say, how did you get started with the magazine?

Clay: You know, it was a way to continue to offer … As we’ve talked before on the show, I’ve had a pretty good career and felt it was time. Killer Nashville is my version of giving back to the community, and everybody who comes and presents is giving back to the community. The headliners and our guests of honor and all of the other people who come all come with a spirit of giving back, and so you have a meeting, a gathering that’s a once a year thing, and there’s no way to continue the education. So I decided what we need is a magazine, but we’ll do an online magazine and we’ll make it free, and it’s absolutely free to everybody. All you have to do is go to KillerNashville.com and sign up for the free magazine.

You get it, I assume, and I would say that the quality of the craft articles and also the other how-to things are on equal par with any other magazine that you could get a subscription to and have to pay for it. So it’s absolutely free and it comes to your inbox. So I encourage everybody to sign up for that if they want to. And then also this past year, I really wanted to give writers more of an opportunity to be able to publish their own works, and so it has moved slightly. It’s a craft magazine, but it’s also now a literary magazine because we’re publishing creative non-fiction, poetry, short stories, excerpts from books, different things, reviews of new books that are coming out, and if anyone wants to volunteer, we’d love to have volunteers. Just go to the KillerNashville.com site and you can volunteer, but also if you want to submit some of your writing, we would love to have people’s submissions, because we’re always looking to discover the next great voice.

Debbi: Very cool. I was going to ask about submissions, so I’m glad you brought that up.

Clay: Yeah, it’s open and there’s no fees. We really try to make sure of that. You know, having gone full circle in this business myself, the people who really need to get that foot in the door are not always the ones that can afford it. They can’t always afford to come to the conference so we have the magazine for free so that you can get some information there. They can’t always afford to enter contests, so our submission process is free. So again, it’s just a labor of love that we’re trying to help writers of all kinds who are out there to find publication and also knowledge.

Yeah, [magazine submissions are] open and there’s no fees. We really try to make sure of that. You know, having gone full circle in this business myself, the people who really need to get that foot in the door are not always the ones that can afford it.

Debbi: Yes, yes. That’s great. It’s wonderful that you’re doing that. One thing I was going to bring up is, it seems like it’s harder than ever for authors to let’s say, be visible these days with the sheer plethora of books that’s coming out, and things like … well, I guess really to a certain extent, writers are very introverted usually, and have a hard time with the idea of marketing. They think marketing, they think something’s sleazy. What are your thoughts on the best way to build a fan base?

Clay: I personally think it’s through just getting people to know you, and you’ve got to have these days as you pointed out, there are many, many authors out there now, and you have to have some sort of platform in order to be able to set yourself up higher so your head is sticking above the crowd, and people are able to see that. You can do that through a bunch of numerous ways. You can do it through teaching, you can do it through interacting on social media, if you’re really good with that. You could do it just however it is that you reach out to other people. But the important thing that I think, and you know that I used to own a PR and marketing firm as well, and so the thing that I really think is most important is to just develop true, honest, sincere relationships with other people , and that builds.

The best thing we have tried over the years, and I’ve been in this business for decades – marketing and stuff – and over the years, you can take pay for ads, you can do all these other things, and the best thing you can do is just get word of mouth. It’s absolutely the best seller that you get. So write the best book that you can, and then just reach out to each individual person that you come along with, and just start building that base, and then continually put out new works so that you can maintain the interest of that base, and it sounds very simple. You go bathe three times in the river Jordan or whatever, and your leprosy will go away. It seems like a very simple thing to do. It is a simple thing to do, but it’s also something that has to be a consistent thing, and I really do think it’s the best way to build a platform.

The best thing we have tried over the years, and I’ve been in this business for decades – marketing and stuff – and over the years, you can take pay for ads, you can do all these other things, and the best thing you can do is just get word of mouth.

Debbi: Yes. Consistency and doing something that works for you is another important part, I think.

Clay: Well, you can’t change your personality. We all have different things that we’re good at. I do fine talking so I do a lot of presentations such as this, but some people are not comfortable talking, but at the same time, they’re more comfortable doing blogs. And by the way, if I can offer a self-serving plug here, I do a blog as well, and offer my insights, my personal insights, and from my decades of experience working on both sides of the camera, on both sides of the publishing industry, on both sides of the stage, and share that every week with people who are interested. So if anybody wants to sign up for that free newsletter, go to claystafford.com and just sign up and see if it’s something that’s of interest to you.

Debbi: Very good. Very good.

Clay: It all comes down to helping. I think the best thing that has ever happened for me in terms of marketing is just helping other people, and I think that people respond positively too, if you’re very sincere about however you are reaching out to other people, and if it’s just helping people enjoy life, helping people live life, whatever your gift is, then sharing that I think is really that best way to build that platform.

I think that people respond positively too, if you’re very sincere about however you are reaching out to other people, and if it’s just helping people enjoy life, helping people live life, whatever your gift is, then sharing that I think is really that best way to build that platform.

Debbi: That’s good to hear. I mean, you don’t have to be a particular way to be effective. You just have to kind of be your best self.

Clay: Be your true self.

Debbi: Your true self. Yes.

Clay: Be your true self and share your true self with others, and I think you’ll be surprised at the amount of love that comes back to you.

Debbi: I love that philosophy. It’s great. I mean, I agree with you completely. So what do you like on TV these days?

Clay: I am waiting two years or however long it is for Stranger Things to come back again.

Debbi: Oh my gosh. Anything else come to mind?

Clay: I spend so much time skimming television and reading and stuff. I’m just not a loyal person to anything because I’m just absorbing what’s going on around me, and there’s so many things because I have book reviews that I have to do – or let me rephrase that – that I get to do.

Debbi: That you get to do, I know.

Clay: I don’t have to do them, but I get to do them, and so I constantly have this… you know how you have this “want-to read” stack of books that are there.

Debbi: Oh yeah!

Clay: I’ve got one of those that you must read because there is a deadline of an interview that’s coming up with this, or a release of a review. So my reading and my viewing because I review films and TV shows and things as well, and mine is usually based on it, unfortunately. I came into the business because I love the business, and now the business has taken hold of me so I’m at the mercy of the business, and so it’s a completely different thing.

Debbi: I get it. I get it. Oh my gosh.

Clay: It’s completely delightful. But the fun thing is you just get to, when you have deadlines set, if you got a job that you have to read a book and then tell people what you think about it, or watch a TV show and tell people what you think about it, you live a rough life, right?

Debbi: Exactly.

Clay: But having to do that, you get to experience such an eclectic mix of authors from different styles, and I have reviewed a lot of things. I reviewed one version of The Bible that came out. I think it was the NIV version if I’m not mistaken. The editor gave it to me. A Closer Look was the magazine, and they gave me the thing. They said, would you review this new version of the Bible? And so I was like yeah, and then I made a joke, like but what if I don’t like it and the author gets angry?

Debbi: Oh boy.

Clay: So if you go to my website and look at the things that I’ve reviewed and stuff, it’s an eclectic mix. Everything from horror to romance to thriller, Southern Gothic, steampunk. It runs a gamut, but it’s a very exciting thing, and I have really an eclectic mix. And you know me – I have an attention span about this long. So if I read one book then I’m ready for a completely different kind of book, but it’s because that’s the way my mind works.

Debbi: Yeah, I can understand. I mean, I’m interested in a lot of things, though I tend to focus on one thing at a time. Let’s see. What are you reading that you’re really enjoying these days?

Clay: Once again …

Debbi: Oh dear!

Clay: Yes, it’s pretty much the same thing. I don’t have the copies of the books here, but I’ll tell you. The best thing to do is to look at the Killer Nashville Magazine and you’ll see the people I’m interviewing, because I always do the cover story on the Killer Nashville Magazine. Then also I have a monthly column for Writer’s Digest and I interview authors there, and I always read their books. So if you want to know what I’m reading, just take a peek at Writer’s Digest or Killer National Magazine or some of the other reviews. I do reviews via the Clay Stafford newsletter if you want to take a look at those. So you’ll see an eclectic mix on all of those.

Debbi: That’s very cool. I’ll have to look for your reviews. That’s great. Is there anything else you’d like to add before we finish up?

Clay: No, just whatever you wish to discuss.

Debbi: Well, I’ve learned a lot just in talking to you.

Clay: Time has flown by, hasn’t it?

Debbi: Just in 20 minutes I’ve learned so much about what you’re doing at Killer Nashville, which sounds so cool, and what you’re reading or trying to read or reviewing.

Clay: I just came back from a European tour and it was fabulous. I went with one objective and I came back with four objectives, which are some wonderful things that I’m hoping to do in Europe as well. I can’t really disclose what those are, but that’s my current project is looking into 2025 on some European projects that the groundwork, the foundation laid for these past three weeks in Europe.

Debbi: That’s fantastic. That’s wonderful. Great. Well, I want to thank you so much.

Clay: Absolutely.

Debbi: Was there something you wanted to say?

Clay: No, no. Thank you for having me on your show. It’s always a pleasure to be back and thanks for all you do for writers as well.

Debbi: Oh, well, you’re welcome, and I enjoy doing it. It’s the variety, you know. I get to meet a lot of people this way,

Clay: Yes, absolutely.

Debbi: So thank you again. I really appreciate your being on, and on that note, thank you to all my listeners for your interest. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review. You don’t even have to write it, just throw some stars up there, please. Also check out our Patreon page. We have bonus episodes, as well as other bonus content for supporters, and with that, I will just say our next guest will be Phil M. Williams. Until then, take care and happy reading.

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