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Episode #63: Adam Nosal on Agreeing to Disagree
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I sit again with Adam Nosal who was my first guest in season 3. I asked him to help me kick off the season and set the tone as we talked about ‘how to have nurturing, nourishing conversations’ in what turned out to be the first two episodes of this season.
Well, he’s back and we chat about consensus and disagreement, with special reference to Joe Rogan’s recent controversial Spotify podcast episodes and the ensuing backlash, with people like Neil Young and Brené Brown leaving the platform in protest.
To recap, if you missed what happened: two Joe Rogan podcast episodes were flagged because the experts he interviewed aired views on COVID and the COVID vaccination that are currently considered controversial, based on our ever-changing and evolving understanding of this pandemic. So Spotify and others called it ‘misinformation’ and censored it.
Adam and I set up some ground rules for ourselves - including ‘not being overly careful out of fear’ - before we dive into talking about how important language is, how information overload today can be overwhelming and how it’s more important than ever to be able to navigate conversations in which we disagree over topics that trigger our deepest fears. Adam gives great quote, as usual, throughout the episode and our intention throughout is to give listeners something to pause and chew on.
We talk about how phrases like "misinformation" are often not useful, as our understanding of “facts” is fluid, evolving, and changing over time. But once someone has taken a stand on something - calling it right or wrong - it can be very difficult to change their minds, because they’re invested in a particular position.
One of my favourite of Adam’s lines here is “truth is becoming weaponized in some areas of our conversation, and the invitation for us to stand with each other in a time of huge complexity is not being accepted”.
We discuss the need to be diligent, find balance, avoid being reactive, and judging the credibility of information we come across to prevent the spread of harmful information or narratives. We also need to recognize the importance of relationships and the damage that comes from mocking or taunting other people or groups.
We propose that the best way to avoid the spread of misinformation is simply to pause and do nothing in the spur of the moment. Wait. Breathe. Process. Then maybe leave it.
I throw in my usual dose of perspective on the necessity of exposing ourselves to discomfort and intentionally seeking out challenging conversations with ideas and people we know we probably won’t agree with. Consensus is often NOT desirable. It’s boring and makes our comfort zone smaller, our conservatism bigger, our potential for innovation and breakthroughs non-existent.
Keep listening to the Discomfort Practice Podcast for more inspiring stories like these.
Let me know your thoughts on Instagram or Twitter @thebetsyreed, and tag me. Follow my own journey through my discomfort practice and catch up on past episodes via the podcast microsite https://thediscomfortpractice.libsyn.com or find The Discomfort Practice on your favourite podcast platform.
Key Points:
- Why consensus is not helpful (02:41)
- The issue of Joe Rogan Spotify episodes introduction (06:53)
- Dangerous misinformation (08:45)
- Importance of self-censorship (13:18)
- Government’s COVID 19: Contrasting information (19:35)
- Information sources (22:20)
- Stick to your ideas, but yet respect others (27:35)
- Irrational misogyny of governments and lawmakers (35:08)
- Reflect, upon yourself – Have I taunted or mocked someone (36:00)
- Understand other’s perspectives and face discomfort to get better (41:00)
- Pause between words (43:50)
- Have conversations with curious intent not with prejudice (49:57)
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Resources Mentioned:
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