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1 Jerry Seinfeld:A Joke About The Phrase "It Is What It Is' 1:54
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Emergency monopod: on the seismic media reforms Paul Goldsmith just floated
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Duncan Greive goes solo to break down a discussion document with profound implications for local media. He explains why he thinks this is the best and most coherent policy outline we've seen in a decade, what's in it, what the challenges are and how it would impact local media if it went through.
A reminder: The Fold is live in Wellington next week! Get your tickets here.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
276 episodes
ShareManage episode 466372671 series 2581955
Content provided by The Spinoff. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by The Spinoff or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://player.fm/legal.
Duncan Greive goes solo to break down a discussion document with profound implications for local media. He explains why he thinks this is the best and most coherent policy outline we've seen in a decade, what's in it, what the challenges are and how it would impact local media if it went through.
A reminder: The Fold is live in Wellington next week! Get your tickets here.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
276 episodes
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1 Why festivals are failing as live music is booming – and the battle for Western Springs 58:34
58:34 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked58:34
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedCampbell Smith trained as a lawyer, but was quickly drawn into the music business. He started out offering advice on bFM, then began representing artists like Brooke Fraser and The Naked and Famous. Then came his first promotional gig – running one of the country's most iconic festivals in the Big Day Out. At the same time he represented recorded music rights holders in a doomed battle against music downloading in the Napster era. He joins Duncan Greive to reflect on all this and discuss the current state of live music, while explaining his decision to wind down his management career, and his involvement with the campaign to turn Western Springs into a permanent music venue. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 Bauer, five years after part II: The Listener and Are Media rise from the ashes 45:34
45:34 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked45:34
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedAre Media was a new company born out of the end of Bauer, taking some of its biggest magazines and running them on a much leaner model. Are's NZ GM Stuart Dick and The Listener's editor Kirsty Cameron join Duncan Greive on The Fold to talk about bringing those magazines back to life, and how Cameron revived a title which had lost its way at times in the Bauer years. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 Bauer, five years after part I: Ensemble, Here and the rise of the independents 1:03:38
1:03:38 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked1:03:38
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedNew Zealand's magazine industry suffered a catastrophic event five years ago, when many of the biggest and most famous titles in our history shut down on a fateful Zoom call. The first of a two part series looks at the independent publications which rose up in its wake. Duncan Greive is joined by Rebecca Wadey and Zoe Walker Ahwa, founders of Ensemble to discuss lifestyle media and first joining then leaving Stuff. Next comes Simon Farrell-Green, to talk about why after years editing Home, he decided to leave the title alone and instead start a new magazine named Here, which turns five years old this month. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 Emergency Pod, part II: Inside the final showdown at the NZME's annual meeting 40:15
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedA massive day of media news concludes with Duncan Greive joining Anna Rawhiti-Connell on The Fold to break down the NZME ASM, which marked the conclusion to an epic three month saga involving Canadian billionaire Jim Grenon. He and former National finance minister Steven Joyce were both elected to the board, with shareholders were both elated and terrified for what that might entail. Greive traveled straight from the meeting to tell Rawhiti-Connell what went on. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 Emergency pod: Trade Me buys 50% of Stuff Digital – what?! And why?! 34:32
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to discuss today's announcement that Trade Me has purchased a 50% stake in Stuff Digital, with an explicit focus on growing its property audience. Kyne and Greive break down the strategic rationale, the challenge it represents to NZME and how this new battle might play out in the coming months and years. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 On the budget, radio ratings – and NZME loses a star while gaining a channel 53:27
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne joins Duncan Greive to pick through a week of small but instructive media news. There was a miniscule new announcement in the budget, on the same day radio ratings dropped to confirm little had changed. Then they review the first show from the Herald’s new FAST channel, fronted by Ryan Bridge, set against news that Madison Reidy was buying her channel and going solo. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 Voyagers debrief, the NZME saga seems over and a big boost for movies 40:33
40:33 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked40:33
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to recap a significantly smaller but somehow considerably better Voyager Media Awards. (Apologies to Gulf News and NZ Geographic, each of which had notable wins which didn't get mentioned). Next they discuss the latest, potential the final developments in the NZME board coup saga, before addressing a big financial boost to inbound movie subsidies – and The Spinoff's own major editorial news. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 Why are there suddenly two country music stations in New Zealand? 1:00:42
1:00:42 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked1:00:42
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedFor a long time New Zealand's country music audience was presumed to be the town of Gore and its immediate surrounds. Few albums got released, and major artists almost never toured. That all changed in the past few years, with streaming both proving and generating a huge global audience for country – and artists like Luke Combs and Morgan Wallen playing shows to massive local crowds. That has prompted two separate radio stations to launch, the first an independent led by veteran broadcaster Mike Puru, with a second launched by NZME just last week. Puru and NZME chief audio officer Jason Winstanley join Duncan Greive on The Fold to talk about the rise of country, why it requires its own stations and give a view on the current state of digital audio in Aotearoa. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 Emergency podcast: Trump’s tariffs go to the movies – plus the latest NZME drama 34:58
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedYesterday US president Donald Trump announced 100% tariffs on all foreign-made movies. It was an extraordinary and potentially hugely destructive piece of news for the mighty but embattled film industry. It was also extremely unclear exactly what it meant. Glen Kyne joins Duncan Greive on an emergency edition of The Fold to discuss the news and try and game out its impact both globally and locally. They also dig into the latest beats of the ongoing NZME board takeover saga – with big changes to the exec and the potential arrival of Steven Joyce as chair. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 What really matters in the battle to save NZ TV? 46:36
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedDylan Reeve has spent his whole career working on iconic New Zealand television shows, from Shortland Street, to Treasure Island to Outrageous Fortune. But after listening to last week’s episode of The Fold, he wonders whether we’re even asking the right questions. He sent a provocative note which questions whose interests are being served by incremental reforms to NZ On Air or the screen production rebate (or SPR), and joins Duncan Greive to discuss whether the current institutions can or should be saved – and what an alternate plan might look like. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
The media has always been largely funded by advertising – but that's unlikely to be the case in future. Two stories over the past week addressed different aspects of what might step into the void it creates. Duncan Greive returns alongside Glen Kyne for an episode which explores how media was, is and might be funded in future – taking the NZ on Air system, the screen production rebate, tech funding, audience revenue and private funders, addressing requests to expand each, and the challenges they bring. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 The big job ahead for TVNZ’s news and content chief and Google is dealt a blow 48:14
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe job of chief news and content officer at TVNZ has been one of the most talked-about leadership roles in New Zealand media. Last week, it was announced that Nadia Tolich will leave her position as managing director of Stuff Digital to take up the role. Glen Kyne joins Anna Rawhiti-Connell to discuss the enormity of the task ahead for Tolich and why high profile exits mightn’t be as scandalous as you think. They also analyse the case laid out by Philip Crump on Monday for a Jim Grenon-led board at NZME and reflect on the slivers of hope that recent anti-trust ruling in the US offer those wanting to see big tech reined in. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 Are print magazines really making a comeback, or is it wishful thinking? 1:04:14
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedIt’s been five years since Bauer exited New Zealand, devastating the magazine industry and heralding an era of enormous disruption for media in this country. Iconic Auckland title, Metro Magazine, was a casualty of that closure. The publication has found its feet again and is flourishing under independent ownership. As Auckland evolves, so too does Metro. Henry Oliver has been the editor of Metro for over six years now. He joins Anna Rawhiti-Connell to discuss magazine life five years after the Bauer exit, the growing buzz about the revival of print magazines, the impact of social media on criticism, reviews, social satire, and gossip, and how Metro stays relevant as a tastemaker in a constantly changing city. They discuss what Oliver is most proud of, his editorial approach, and why magazines should deliver the expected and the unexpected. Oliver describes where the fun and reward lie for him as a magazine editor in a vastly changed industry and mulls whether a Felicity Ferret-esque figure (RIP to the queen of social satire and local snark), could ever make a comeback. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 What Trump’s tariffs could mean for media and the latest on NZME 48:46
48:46 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked48:46
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedLast week, NZME’s board laid out its case against Jim Grenon’s attempt to take control of the board, introducing previously unspoken concerns about editorial influence to the fight. It prompted a new round of reactions and letters and the introduction of a few new players. Following Donald Trump’s tariff announcement, $6.6 trillion was wiped off the value of US stocks in 48 hours, creating fresh concern about a global economic downturn. While the tariffs don’t yet extend to services, lobbying efforts by tech companies and streamers to stop countries from forcing them to pay levies, invest in local content production, or meet quotas will be boosted by Trump’s war against the “overseas exploitation” of American companies, putting a potential dampener on New Zealand’s freshly minted media reform proposals. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
1 Careless People, Adolescence and where Meta is at 1:03:18
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedIt's been a rough PR month for Meta, with two of the most-discussed cultural artefacts of the year both directly concerning their two biggest products. Duncan Greive is joined by Anna Rawhiti-Connell to discuss Careless People, the explosive memoir by New Zealand diplomat Sarah Wynn-Williams about her time at Facebook; and Adolescence, the extraordinary Netflix series about a murder which occurs after radicalisation and bullying on Instagram. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Analysing the Grenon Letters – and is Trade Me buying Stuff? 53:32
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne joins Duncan Greive on the Fold to discuss a torrid few weeks in media ownership, with billionaire Jim Grenon's attempt to install a new board at NZME and revelations that both parts of Stuff are potentially in play. Kyne and Greive discuss both of Grenon's letters, both the business analysis and the vision for news, while also looking at what Stuff could do if it was part of Trade Me's empire. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 A Gen X, a Millennial and a Gen Z talk about culture, media and reputations across generations 1:00:28
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedLove Song is a piece of research that Live Nation has been running for six years. It targets Gen Z and its relationship with music and culture, and – they don’t just do it for fun – about how brands can fit into all that. Duncan Greive is joined by his colleagues Gabi Lardies and Lyric Waiwiri-Smith to talk about that research, using it as a jumping off point to have a wider conversation about generations. Together they talk about the truths, the myths, the tensions and the weirdness of all this endless generational discourse. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Kevin Chesters says there never was a golden age of advertising 53:39
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedKevin Chesters has 30 years of experience leading strategy on both agency and client sides, serving as CSO at W+K London, Dentsu, and Ogilvy, as well as Head of Strategy at BT, the UK’s equivalent of Spark. He joins Duncan Greive on The Fold as part of The Spinoff’s 2025 partnership with the Comms Council. The pair cover off Chesters' career, what drew him to advertising, dig into the challenge of creativity after the death of the monoculture, and, inevitably, about what AI will do to creativity. Get your tickets now to hear Kevin at AXIS Speaks on Thursday 27 March. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 A new world order: big tech and regulation in the second coming of Trump 1:02:37
1:02:37 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked1:02:37
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe second Trump administration has blown apart a multi-decade long rules based order for trade. The White House has put the whole world on notice that it will use tariffs against any perceived slight against its companies. What does that mean for our media reforms? How are we hamstrung by our trade agreements? Do we even have sovereignty on the internet? Duncan Greive is joined by trade specialist Charles Finny and Brainbox's tech regulation expert Tom Barraclough to dive deep into the theoretical and the practical of media regulation in the new era. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
Glen Kyne joins Duncan Greive for an emergency episode of The Fold after an NZX announcement this afternoon revealed that new NZME shareholder James Grenon is seeking to clear the board and install a new set of directors, himself included. He owns 10% of its shares, and claims the backing of 37% more – putting him very close to a majority for the motion. There's a lot we don't know, and a lot of water to flow under the bridge – but Grenon's media history is very much preoccupied with particular culture war issues. Any attempt to introduce that approach to NZME would be a media event unlike any New Zealand has seen before. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 The Big Three #3: Sky has turned itself around – and the rugby deal seems when, not if 57:42
57:42 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked57:42
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedIn the third of a three part series analysing the results of the Big Three media companies (or those that release their results, anyway), Glen Kyne joins Duncan Greive to look into an impressive result for Sky. After weeks of bad headlines driven by a failing satellite and seemingly stalled negotiations with NZ Rugby, news it had won back the rights to home cricket internationals was welcome. Kyne and Greive dig deep into the results and report on background conversations with NZ Rugby and Sky to suggest that DAZN's presence in the negotiation is likely not nearly so worrying as it looks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 The Big Three #2: TVNZ has survived a year from hell – but challenges loom 36:21
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedIn the second of a three part series analysing the results of the Big Three media companies (or those that release their results, anyway), Glen Kyne joins Duncan Greive to look into the results for TVNZ. The state broadcaster has many huge advantages, but remains hamstrung by the lack of audience revenue – newish CEO Jodi O'Donnell is very keen to change that. The loss of cricket was a bitter blow, but after a brutal year, these results contain a lot to be proud of for O'Donnell. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 The Big Three #1: NZME's plans (and owners) could reshape our media 37:56
37:56 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked37:56
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedIn the first of a three part series analysing the results of the Big Three media companies (or those that release their results, anyway), Glen Kyne joins Duncan Greive to dig into NZME's 2024 results and some quietly impactful future plans. These include a potential sale of One Roof, shedding writers to launch a new TV-like news "channel" and a mysterious new owner who just bought almost a tenth of the business's shares. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 The Fold Live in Wellington: will Substack save journalism? Or destroy it? 1:04:32
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedDuncan Greive is joined by two of New Zealand's most successful Substackers in Bernard Hickey (The Kākā) and Lucy Blakiston (Shit You Should Care About) on stage in Wellington as part of the Fringe Festival. They explore the origin stories of their brands, while delving deep into their relationship with institutional media and the different incentives of a paying audience versus advertising. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Australia's media lost more than half its value in five years. How and why? 51:29
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedTim Burrowes is the author of a book and a Substack called Unmade, which are truly essential guides to media in Australia – and a useful way of understanding the similarities and differences which define our two closely linked markets. He joins Duncan Greive ahead of Unmade's first Auckland live event to talk about a torrid decade in Australian media, the forces which are driving that and whether there are reasons to be optimistic amid the carnage. A reminder: The Fold is live in Wellington this week! Get your tickets here . Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Emergency monopod: on the seismic media reforms Paul Goldsmith just floated 16:48
16:48 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked16:48
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedDuncan Greive goes solo to break down a discussion document with profound implications for local media. He explains why he thinks this is the best and most coherent policy outline we've seen in a decade, what's in it, what the challenges are and how it would impact local media if it went through. A reminder: The Fold is live in Wellington next week! G et your tickets here . Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Bonus episode: How the media covers Waitangi 29:06
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedRecorded on the sandy shores of the mighty North, guest hosts Liam Ratana and Lyric Waiwiri-Smith (along with regular producer Te Aihe Butler) take over The Fold for a behind-the-scenes look at how the media covers Waitangi. After three days of politician stand ups, haukāinga-led forum panels and more story leads than we had time to cover, what stood out? What did we learn? And how can The Spinoff get a golf cart for Waitangi 2026? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 The extremely online weirdness of the Ted Cruz tweet affair 46:15
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedToby Manhire joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to discuss a minor diplomatic incident involving Texas senator Ted Cruz, and what it says about the chaotic information space we now operate in. They also discuss former Spinoff writer Madeleine Holden's new Substack , which launched with a tirade for the ages about a recent Apple ad; Sky TV's satellite woes and an Auckland Council campaign which could very easily have been something else. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 NZME pivots to video in 2025, the problem with TVNZ's cricket hit and DeepSeek explodes the AI world 50:48
50:48 Play Later Play Later Lists Like Liked50:48
Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne returns to The Fold to discuss the first big media news story of the year – NZME's decision to trade some senior text journalists for a sharp increase in video production. Next we discuss the shocking impact of Chinese-AI lab DeepSeek's world-beating LLM performance on a shoestring budget, Acast's big Between Two Beers podcast pickup and finally how a big success for TVNZ reveals a deeper challenge of video in a digital context. The Fold Live For the first time ever we are putting on a live version of The Fold on 20th February at the Hannah Playhouse in Wellington. Join host Duncan Greive, Bernard Hickey (journalist and host of podcast When the Facts Change) and Lucy Blakiston (CEO and cofounder of Gen Z media company Shit You Should Care About) for a lighthearted chat about media, culture and the creator economy. This show is part of the NZ Fringe Festival, you can get your tickets now at thespinoff.co.nz/events Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 We’re back! On Meta going MAGA, TikTok’s perilous future and NZ media in 2025 59:02
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe Spinoff’s resident social media philosopher queen, Anna Rawhiti-Connell, joins Duncan Greive to recap an epochal month in the geopolitics of social media. They talk about Meta’s hard pivot into the MAGA worldview, and what that might mean for audiences and advertisers. Then, examine the fraught status of TikTok in the US, and think about how it might play out. Finally they look at Shayne “Media Insider” Currie’s 25 predictions for 2025, and make their own predictions based on his predictions. All that, plus very quick hits on Luke Combs and SailGP. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Summer reissue: Australia has banned social media for under 16s. And that's just the beginning 57:25
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe Fold is taking a break over summer. We’ll be back soon with new episodes but, until then, here’s one of our favourites from 2024: In an effort to get out of his doom spiral, Duncan Greive takes a tour across the Tasman to see how our close neighbours are dealing with a similar set of challenges. From a social media ban, to local content quotas, to news bargaining, to an activist competition authority, Australia is a global leader, while New Zealand is nowhere to be found. In the first of two episodes focused on Australia, former Newshub boss Hal Crawford joins Duncan to discuss a raft of legislation aimed at big tech, which has either been proposed or passed – sometimes with bipartisan support. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Summer reissue: Spotify's data alchemist explains the mysteries of music streaming 52:22
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe Fold is taking a break over summer. We’ll be back soon with new episodes but, until then, here’s one of our favourites from 2024: Glenn McDonald spent more than a decade with a very mysterious and specific job title: data alchemist at Spotify. It's possible – even likely – that no one on Earth knows as much about music streaming. He is in New Zealand for the Going Global music industry conference, and joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to talk about how Spotify does and doesn't work for artists, why Spotify doesn't stretch your listening habits, and what he really thinks about its big move into podcasting and audiobooks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Summer reissue: NZ on Air's Where are the Audiences 2024 special: legacy media strikes back 38:41
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe Fold is taking a break over summer. We’ll be back soon with new episodes but, until then, here’s one of our favourites from 2024: The 2024 edition of NZ on Air's Where are the Audiences is a bombshell – largely because so little has changed. The past decade has been characterised by a sharp and consistent rise in UGC, social and SVOD platforms, while local media has slid precipitously. This year that slide has arrested – and in some cases reversed. Duncan Greive is joined by The Spinoff's Ātea editor Liam Rātana, dissecting the findings as they take turns drafting their five favourite data points from WATA 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Summer reissue: One final Newshub bulletin for Sam Hayes and Mike McRoberts 56:46
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe Fold is taking a break over summer. We’ll be back soon with new episodes but, until then, here’s one of our favourites from 2024: Friday July 4 marked the end of Newshub, an organisation that has been around for 35 years, and has a strong case as the most original and idiosyncratic newsroom this country has ever known. Sam Hayes and Mike McRoberts have more than 40 years’ combined experience at Three, and join Duncan Greive on The Fold to look back across the history of 3 News, and assess its singular culture and some crucial moments along the path to this sad goodbye. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Summer reissue: Inside the enormous, invisible Roblox economy 48:10
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe Fold is taking a break over summer. We’ll be back soon with new episodes but, until then, here’s one of our favourites from 2024: Alec Kieft makes games for "YouTube for gaming" platform Roblox, including Break-In, a smash hit that has been played more than two billion times by 80 million people. The platform is wildly popular with pre-teens, and is widely considered the closest thing to an operating metaverse that exists in the world today. Kieft joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to explain what drives the culture and economy of this hidden world. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Looking back on the media horror movie that was 2024 1:21:39
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne returns to join Duncan Greive on The Fold for an epic year in review, going deep on all the big storylines that defined a year which broke New Zealand's media. Including, but by no means limited to: the end of Newshub, Sunday and Fair Go; the downsizing of Shortland Street and challenges to the productions sector; a dive into Australia's approach to big tech; assessments of every major mainstream media company, the advertising and media agency sector and a pair of predictions for the first half of 2025. All in 77 action-packed minutes! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Inside the wild, complex, obscure and incredibly important world of media buying 50:46
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedIn the second of two episodes looking at New Zealand from Australia, Duncan Greive speaks to Paul McIntyre – founder and publisher at Mi3 – and one of the most credentialed journalists on advertising, tech and media in this part of the world. He wrote a story in late October which detailed the perverse incentives of the move to so-called "principal media", and how Australia's media looked at New Zealand as a cautionary tale to be avoided. We go deep into those topics and the tensions between content companies and big tech to try and get a deeper understanding of what has happened to advertising in recent years. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Big changes at Whakaata Māori reveal complex challenges for Māori news in the digital era 43:21
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedLast week brought confirmation that Whakaata Māori was ending Te Ao Māori News 4.30pm bulletin to focus on a pure digital future for news, while also moving its Te Reo channel to solely online distribution. The Spinoff Ātea editor Liam Rātana joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to discuss the move, and also assess the state of Māori news and current affairs more broadly. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Australia has banned social media for under 16s. And that's just the beginning 58:03
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedIn an effort to get out of his doom spiral, Duncan Greive takes a tour across the Tasman to see how our close neighbours are dealing with a similar set of challenges. From a social media ban, to local content quotas, to news bargaining to an activist competition authority, Australia is a global leader, while New Zealand is nowhere to be found. In the first of two episodes focused on Australia, former Newshub boss Hal Crawford joins Duncan to discuss a raft of legislation aimed at big tech, which has either been proposed or passed - sometimes with bi-partisan support. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 A special edition of The Fold: The future of The Spinoff 50:09
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedNormally on The Fold, we discuss events in the wider media, but today, the subject is us and the future of The Spinoff. Published on site today is an open letter from Duncan, The Spinoff’s editor Madeleine Chapman, and its CEO Amber Easby. It toplines where The Spinoff is right now as a platform – this paradoxical place where our audience is the strongest it has ever been, outside of events like Covid or elections – but that the stagnant ad market, and a hard drop in public funding for our work, has left us in a really tricky situation needing to make a very real call for help. First, Duncan speaks to our editor, Madeleine Chapman, and our head of audience, Anna Rawhiti-Connell about we’re asking for and why we’re asking for it. Duncan is then joined by Spinoff CEO Amber Easby to dig into some numbers that show just how radically our revenue picture has changed and explain why our audience is now our last, best shot at retaining the ability to carry on doing what we do. Please take the time to read the open letter at https://thespinoff.co.nz/sos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 A mini-episode about that NZ Herald story – and the new NZ on Air round 8:23
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedIt's fair to assume a near total correlation between Media Insider readers and The Fold's listeners – so if you've read Shayne Currie's report into job losses at The Spinoff yesterday, you'll know that we're all feeling pretty low here. My heart and thoughts are with my affected colleagues – but I wanted to give some background and context beyond that story, and talk about the most recent NZ on Air round too. That's what this short episode is about. Back Thursday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
It’s a throwback monopod today – Duncan Greive goes solo in a pretty raw episode, reflecting on a wonderful event with a very sobering reflection on the present and likely future of institutional media in Aotearoa. It’s a look at what’s driving the cataclysmic events of this year, and whether they’re likely to be temporary, or are baked in. And finally, why it is that the political response here seems so softly softly, when other countries are making serious attempts to defend their culture, media and journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Inside one of the most unexpected hits in NZ media 33:14
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedKristy McGregor was an Australian with no experience in media before founding Shepherdess, a magazine dedicated to the life and experience of rural women. However she proved a total natural, and has developed it into one of the most fascinating and instructive startups in New Zealand media. What started as a print magazine now encompasses a festival and a TV show, all made by women working part-time and hundreds of kilometres apart. She stopped by The Fold, heavily pregnant on a business trip, to tell Duncan Greive her remarkable story. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Mass cuts at TVNZ – but are they enough? And NZME's podcast drama, explained 41:03
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne returns to The Fold to dissect the 50 proposed redundancies at TVNZ, and the confirmation that news will now be part of content, rather than its own unit. Next, they analyse the extraordinary drama between podcast star Frances Cook and her former employer, NZME – particularly what it says about legacy media's relationship with digital. Finally, they talk about Trump's election, and what that means for big tech and the waning power of institutional media. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 The non-endorsements, the fate of 1News.co.nz and tremors from small publishers 45:28
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedAnna Rawhiti-Connell joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to discuss the fallout from Jeff Bezos' decision to halt the practise of endorsements at the Washington Post, and what it says about the swing away from institutional to social media. Next they discuss TVNZ's backtrack on its decision to close the 1news.co.nz site, and a trio of worrying signals from smaller publishers Crux. NZ Geographic and Caffeine. Finally they look at a key executive departure at Stuff, the second in recent months, and ask what it means about the state of Stuff and the media more broadly. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 How The Spinoff's Top 100 NZ TV shows list was made 34:12
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedDuncan Greive is joined by his longtime Real Pod co-host Alex Casey to talk through the Top 100 NZ TV shows project , which ran on site last week and climaxes with a Q Theatre live show tonight. She talks about the way the list was assembled, what it says about us as a country, and why this is a particularly poignant moment to do this. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
This week Sky announced it had secured the rights to run Max as a channel within Neon, bringing one of the strongest and deepest TV catalogues to its streaming service, and taking a potential competitor off the map (for now, at least). Glen Kyne joins Duncan Greive to discuss the implications of the deal, why it's great for Sky now, and what risks it contains for the future. They also discuss Amazon launching its ad tier into NZ, and how that impacts TVNZ and Three. There's also the shock resignation of NZ Rugby Commercial head Craig Fenton, and an intriguing new wrinkle to the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill saga. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 An aggressive Substack moves to the heart of the creator economy 53:03
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedSubstack co-founder Hamish McKenzie grew up in small town South Island, but is now one of the most influential figures in US media (according to New York magazine). That’s because the platform, which started out with paid newsletters, is now starting to establish itself in social, audio and video. Hamish joins Duncan to discuss its latest moves, its relationship with legacy media and whether it can become a “new economic engine for culture” across all mediums without risking total enshittification. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 A new character enters the scene at NZ on Air, and what Matt Heath says about ZB's future 47:59
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe Spinoff’s editor-at-large Toby Manhire joins Duncan Greive to discuss SXSW and the launch of Auckland FC, and what each says about the vitality of Sydney and Auckland. Duncan toplines the Campaign Brief and Nine drama in Australia, which shows where that country is (still) at, in some ways. Next, they hit SPADA’s warnings about the future of screen production in New Zealand, and what that industry should understand about new NZ on Air board member Philip Crump. Finally, they talk about the end of Matt and Jerry on Hauraki, and the optionality Heath gives to Newstalk ZB. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
It's a week since TVNZ shocked the media with a proposal to shut down 1news.co.nz and merge news with content. Glen Kyne joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to discuss the merits of the approach, what it implies about the future of the business, and other ways it might save $30m and provide a pathway to a sustainable future. Plus – reflections on the debut of Stuff's HOW:TO, and what it might mean for New Zealand media. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Motion Sickness on their wild journey from Dunedin to Cannes 45:21
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedSam Stuchbury founded Motion Sickness as a brand and advertising agency in a flat in Ōtepoti. 10 years on, it has become known for powerful campaigns like 'Proud to be Māori' and 'Rep your Suburb' for Whānau Ora. The company dominated the Axis Awards and picked up silver in the Global Agency of the Year awards in London. Stuchbury and Motion Sickness head of strategy Hilary Ngan Kee join Duncan Greive to talk about the company's unconventional journey, the radically changing nature of the ad industry, and how local independents compete and often win against giant multinational groups. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Google threatens to abandon news in NZ. What comes next? 36:02
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedOn Friday afternoon, Google published a post to its little-read New Zealand blog, one which immediately sent shockwaves through the local news media. It confirmed what had been rumoured – that if the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill passes in its current form, Google will pull news from all its systems and services, and cancel all its agreements with local news media. It sets up an enormously high stakes staredown with the government, with a weakened and embattled news media squeezed between. Glen Kyne joins Duncan Greive to set up the stakes, and suggest a possible compromise. Then they look at the end of Stuff Audio, and why it makes sense, even if Stuff staff must be exhausted by all this change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Could live events be the TV commercials of the future? Spark thinks so 38:49
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedMatt Bain spent a career working across prestige brands in digital contexts before returning to New Zealand to become Data and Marketing Director (CMO in all but name) of the telco-turned-digital services provider that is Spark. It's one of the biggest marketing jobs in the country, with a budget to match – but figuring out what Spark is and how it sells itself isn't easy, especially given its recent market travails. Matt joins Duncan to talk about the difference between brand and retail, reflect on Spark's recent Game Arena event, and explain why a live show can replace a TVC at the heart of a modern marketing campaign. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 What the hell happened to traffic? + Stuff's pivots and RNZ's regrets 52:52
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedAnna Rawhiti-Connell is head of audience for The Spinoff, but spent most of the last decade working in social media for BNZ and the Auckland Theatre Company. She joins Duncan to do a deep dive into the changing nature and shape of social platforms – specifically what happened to links, and therefore traffic. Then they discuss two changes at Stuff – the end of Newsable, and the removal of vertical video from its homepage – before discussing the way RNZ handled the removal of a podcast episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Have advertisers forgotten how to build brands? 50:28
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedJames Hurman is a globally recognised expert in advertising effectiveness – and believes many businesses have become transfixed by generating present day sales through social and search, at the expense of those in the future, generated by brand building on other surfaces. Together they examine what New Zealand's large advertisers and media agencies are doing with their advertising spend. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 More cuts at TVNZ, more growth at RNZ – is the future a news merger? 37:27
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne returns to join host Duncan Greive to discuss a pair of different stories which seem to head to the same conclusion. The first is Shayne Currie's report on a leaked email from TVNZ CEO Jodi O'Donnell flagging more cuts at the broadcaster, potentially at 1news.co.nz . The second is a Newsroom story about fast-rising ratings at RNZ's website. It all points to a newsroom merger, something disruptive but increasingly necessary. We also discuss the new wave of commercially funded primetime TV, and country superstar Luke Combs' rise to announcing two Eden Park shows in January. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 The man in charge of an era-defining rugby rights negotiation 1:08:35
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedCraig Fenton has been boss of NZ Rugby Commercial for a little over six months, but is already in the midst of a crucial deal, one which will shape not just his period in charge, but the whole future of rugby in New Zealand. He joins Duncan Greive to discuss the evolving sports rights landscape in New Zealand, and how Craig sees the All Blacks, Black Ferns and Super Rugby taking advantage of the large but under monetised global All Blacks fandom. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Assessing two tough years in screen production and news, and Australian media follows NZ media into a hole 52:38
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedTamar Münch joins Duncan Greive to discuss the challenges facing screen and news media – and how they intertwine. They also discuss the resignation of Mike Sneesby at Nine, and the way Australian media is following a bad trail blazed by New Zealand media. Finally, a look at Snapchat's hold on teenagers and an intriguing new BSA survey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Did Spark win its big gaming event? Plus Nielsen drama between Stuff and the NZ Herald 32:46
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedDuncan Greive has a solo podcast this week, talking about the debut of Spark Game Arena Live, a huge new event at Spark Arena. He looks at the upside and downsides of the trend away from sponsorships towards brands creating their own projects. Plus: who's number one? Both NZME and Stuff claimed the title this week – but does it even matter? And finally, a look at the way you can see shrinking media budgets through smaller traveling contingents across both sport and politics. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 NZME and TVNZ’s contrasting fortunes and the global challenges of public radio 54:20
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedOne eked out a flat result, the other had a giant loss. Toby Manhire and Duncan Greive discuss what that says about their revenue models. They also discuss the downward trend for RNZ, one mirrored by public media entities around the world. Finally, they look at X’s ban in Brazil and the arrest of Telegram’s founder in France, as a window into the global techlash. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Spotify's data alchemist explains the mysteries of music streaming 50:59
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlenn McDonald spent over a decade with a very mysterious and specific job title: data alchemist at Spotify. It's possible – even likely – that no one on earth knows as much about music streaming. He is in New Zealand for the Going Global music industry conference, and joins Duncan Greive to talk about how Spotify does and doesn't work for artists, why Spotify doesn't stretch your listening habits, and what he really thinks about its big move into podcasting and audiobooks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 NZ on Air's Where are the Audiences 2024 special: legacy media strikes back 37:18
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe 2024 edition of NZ on Air's Where are the Audiences is a bombshell - largely because so little has changed. The past decade has been characterised by a sharp and consistent rise in UGC, social and SVOD platforms, while local media has slid precipitously. This year that slide has arrested – and in some cases reversed. Duncan Greive is joined by The Spinoff's Ātea editor Liam Rātana, dissecting the findings as they take turns drafting their five favourite data points from WATA 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 A new documentary on the national rugby team due its own breakout era 39:21
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedThe All Blacks were early on the sports doc series train – but the result was widely panned, due to a sense the subjects weren't willing to really open up for it. Robyn Paterson has directed a new series for Sky on the Wheel Blacks, a team she says has far more candour than their more famous counterparts. She joins Duncan Greive to discuss the changing shape of disability storytelling, and the potential merger of the film commission and NZ on Air. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Stuff's CEO is gone, TVNZ eyes a paywall and sports, and the moral complexity of the surging TAB 40:04
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedDuncan Greive and Glen Kyne discuss the bombshell announcement that Laura Maxwell is leaving Stuff, with owner Sinead Boucher to take over in the interim. What does it say about Stuff's strategy, and who might replace her? Plus signals suggest TVNZ is making a big play into sports and a paywall – what does that mean for the state broadcaster, and for Sky? And finally, a look at the rise of the new TAB as a force in New Zealand media, with all the moral complexity that brings with it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Is the Film Commission / NZ on Air merger now inevitable? Plus a meltdown in pay TV – and an intriguing NZME-Sky tie-up 41:26
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne joins Duncan Greive to discuss the appointment of Graeme Mason to chair the NZ Film Commission board. The former Screen Australia boss seems the strongest signal yet that the NZFC and NZ on Air are coming together. We run through some worrying signs out of US cable – and ask what they mean for the potential sale of Foxtel, Sky's Australian equivalent. We also look at NZME making a revived Game of Two Halves for Sky, the X advertiser lawsuit and the remarkable run of Susan Wojcicki at YouTube. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 How NZ film's b-grade outlaw king ended up making one for the whole family 41:57
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedAnt Timpson has spent much of his life at war with the establishment. With ventures like the Incredibly Strange Film Festival and 48 Hours, he courted controversy and made a home for misfits of film. Now he's a veteran of governance and has directed a family film – albeit one with a killer psychedelic mushrooms sequence. He joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to explain what came over him. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Netflix is in a category of one, ThreeNews wobbles and the NZ Herald holds the centre 33:24
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedGlen Kyne joins Duncan Greive to discuss earnings season in big tech media, with particularly noteworthy results for Meta and Netflix. Locally 1News has opened up a big 25-54 lead over Stuff's ThreeNews – partly using overwhelming force at the Olympics, the NZ Herald debuts an instructive piece of data journalism, and Ant Timpson's Bookworm lends itself to a discussion of the local box office. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 NEW FORMAT: NZ media news and analysis – with Glen Kyne 42:37
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedDuncan Greive is joined by recently-departed WBD leader Glen Kyne to pilot a brand new format for The Fold. It features Duncan and Glen analysing new strands in local and international media, along with regular deep dives into different aspects of the business. The first episode features reflections an explainer on why TV advertising fell off a cliff, a look at the upcoming NZ Rugby rights deal and the government's decision to bail out Shortland St. From now on, interviews will run less frequently and on Thursdays. Please give us feedback on the new format: duncan@thespinoff.co.nz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 Who starts a print magazine during a pandemic? 40:01
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedJenn Cheuk is the founder and editor-in-chief of Rat World, "a magazine for the underground" she publishes in Tāmaki Makaurau. Now up to issue seven, it radiates the specific energy of driven, fragile yet urgent creativity across forms ranging from lengthy interviews to comics to photography, covering art, theatre music and more. She joins Duncan Greive on The Fold to discuss the state of the arts, who Rat World is for – and why print is really different to the internet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Behind The Story: Reporting on the news within the news 19:17
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedSpinoff founder Duncan Greive has been writing regularly this year on business, politics and pop culture. But his slightly more niche area of interest is the media itself. This week was a big week for the media with AM and Newshub airing their final episodes and a new lease on life for the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill. If you don’t know what that bill is, check out Duncan’s author page on the Spinoff, as he has written more about it than probably anyone else in the country. He also spoke to Samantha Hayes and Mike McRoberts about their time at Three in a sprawling, emotional interview. Duncan joins Madeleine Chapman on Behind the Story to talk about what he’s looking for in exit interviews, how he keeps a story interesting over a number of years, and what compels him to write. An abrupt U-turn from National, a brave new world for news in New Zealand Sam Hayes and Mike McRoberts look back in awe and sorrow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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The Fold
1 One final Newshub bulletin for Sam Hayes and Mike McRoberts 55:24
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedToday marks the end of Newshub, an organisation which has been around for 35 years, and has a strong case as the most original and idiosyncratic newsroom this country has ever known. Sam Hayes and Mike McRoberts have more than 40 years combined experience at Three, and join Duncan Greive on The Fold to look back across the history of 3 News, assess its singular culture and some crucial moments along the path to this sad goodbye. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 A strange trip through the end of Newshub and the beginning of crypto gaming 52:43
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedHal Crawford ran Newshub through a crucial era – but has traveled a strange path since. He joins Duncan Greive to discuss the unique personality of Three News, the prospects of Stuff at 6pm – and his very different career since he returned to Australia. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 A powerhouse of NZ film and TV on why the hits are drying up 47:20
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedAs founder of South Pacific Pictures, John Barnett has played a crucial role in the development of screen productions as varied as Shortland St, Whale Rider, Sione's Wedding and Outrageous Fortune. Now operating independently, he remains one of the most powerful – and critical – voices in New Zealand culture. He joins Duncan Greive to assess the current state of the industry and explain why he believes in the power of a merged Film Commission and NZ On Air. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Toby Manhire on the making of Juggernaut and what we know about Stuff's Three News 40:46
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedDuncan Greive hosts his friend and colleague Toby Manhire on The Fold, to discuss the back-breaking process of making Juggernaut, his new podcast covering the tumultuous years of the fourth Labour government. Then they switch gears to discuss Goldsmith's first weeks as media minister, the post-Newshub recruiting efforts of major media companies, and early signals about Stuff's Three News. Click here to listen to Juggernaut: The Story of the Fourth Labour Government Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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1 Listen Now: episode one of Juggernaut – I Love You, Mr Lange 55:44
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Play Later Play Later Lists Like LikedWe thought you might like a wee taster of our brand new #1 series, Juggernaut: The Story of the Fourth Labour Government, hosted by Toby Manhire. Click here to follow Juggernaut so you get every episode as soon as it's released! 1. I love you, Mr Lange Fuelled by brandy and fury, Sir Rob Muldoon calls a snap election, sparking a 1984 campaign of contrasts – the menacing, protectionist National PM against the fresh, upbeat Labour leader, David Lange. The pretext for the election is the decision by Marilyn Waring, a young, gay MP, to back an anti-nuclear bill and quit the National caucus, prompting an earful from Muldoon. Lange, meanwhile, is joined at the hip by a hungry would-be finance minister, Roger Douglas. They are about to confront a profound crisis, and launch a revolution. Includes previously unheard interviews with David Lange from the 84 campaign trail, and new and exclusive interviews with Marilyn Waring, Roger Douglas, Geoffrey Palmer, Richard Prebble, Peter Harris, Margaret Wilson, Bob Harvey and Gary McCormick. Click here for full details of archive material used in this series Juggernaut was made with the support of NZ On Air. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices…
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Welcome to Crimetown, a series produced by Marc Smerling and Zac Stuart-Pontier in partnership with Gimlet Media. Each season, we investigate the culture of crime in a different city. In Season 2, Crimetown heads to the heart of the Rust Belt: Detroit, Michigan. From its heyday as Motor City to its rebirth as the Brooklyn of the Midwest, Detroit’s history reflects a series of issues that strike at the heart of American identity: race, poverty, policing, loss of industry, the war on drugs, an ...
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A daily dose of irreverent, offbeat, and informative takes on business & tech news. Hosted by Jon Weigell, Juliet Bennett Rylah, Mark Dent, Ben Berkley, Sara Friedman, Matthew Brown, and Rob Litterst from The Hustle.
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What if instead of being on the brink of disaster, we’re on the cusp of a better world? No one can deny the challenges the world faces, from pandemics to climate change to authoritarianism. But pessimism and despair are too easy a response. Each week, Progress Network Founder Zachary Karabell and Executive Director Emma Varvaloucas convene a diverse panel of experts to discuss the central issues of our era, including sustainability, polarization, work, and the economy, and make the case for ...
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