HLS: Ep. 273: Jail House Lawyer Chad Marks

The Hard Luck Show

Your bluetooth will leave blood on the razor wire when Chad Marks hits Ramos Gallery with Big Luck's, Ol' Blue Eyes, Schwartz and Chumahan about being 24 sentenced to 40 in the fed because his lawyer dropped the ball on a 10 year plea deal, he lost hist time, his freedom and his woman but somehow, some way, he turned hell into a positive becoming one of the greatest jailhouse lawyers of all time, after helping over 100 inmates get freedom they finally released him this is the heroic harrowing horrific amazing uplifting shocking astonishing amazing incredible story of all stories and it's all true and it's all for the hard Luck crew.

Transcript - Draft Version, Not Final, Don't Trip.

Why don't we just roll? Yeah, let's roll. I've already told Schwartz. Okay.

good morning. And welcome to the hard luck show. I'm a certified qualified west side. Host Steve lucky Luciano. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, you've tuned into the greatest show on earth. Hard luck show coming to you from the peak gold youth and family center in Southern California. Santa Monica, California.

Hey, this near I've got, uh, my partner partner jumaan over here.

It's to Mohan Bowen, American Indian elegant barbarian, Southern California here to regulate. Once again, we don't take any geeks off the street. You better come with a fucking huge let's go.

Yeah,

come on, come home, come home, come

on and get some phones

at the LBC mission, trying to find Mr. Weber. That

shit. Oh, come on. Now. We got our show runner Xtrordinair. Mr. Schwartz, Sean Lewis on south

side, blue eyes devil inside

height, man for king salmon.

Oh,

king salmon flavor. Flame.

Yeah.

Now you're better. You're your blue eyes, maybe

certified

professional engineer for the fish ate. Oh, that's how I look away.

Right on each job. Go ahead. Yeah.

Bring it in those slow grooves.

Yeah.

Showrunner extraordinary.

Yeah.

Get it.

He forgot to tell everyone his name, Swartz, Schwartz. What's up. Everybody

knows what's up.

Carry a jar in his pocket. He's got

the carrier torch for Schwartz,

carry the torch

and

Ali

Baba and the 40.

what's going

on.

Ali on the visual is no, I already know what time it is. Do what Ali what's. Um, you have kind of a, like a flat voice that people it's. You said people think you have high or something. What is it? I don't know why, but I guess

like be with it. I sound

like monotone

sounds like he's on heroin all

the time.

Like he's on Cate and cat, tranquilizer, ketamine. He's like live, you listened to him. Like here, listen to the happy new year part. Like, listen, just, just to throw it back. We got them all pumped up and we're like, come on, happy new year. And this is what we get. Oh, wait, hold on.

Let me do this again. And this is what we get, and this is what, it's my money. It's my thing turned up, bro. Okay, here we go.

We made it 20, 22, knockout it with

hard luck podcast. He sounds like he's good. He's like,

Hey, he's laying down. And you're

like, begging, like he can barely bring his consciousness to bring his head up and talking to them.

he's been kidnapped and he's in a trunk.

Yeah. Right, right. Pull the duct tape off his mouth for a minute.

Like going hypoglycemic or something. Yeah. Hello everybody. It's happy new year. All right,

listen. Enough fucking around.

We have. We have a gap.

We do have, how do we

find this guest, Nick?

How did we find this

deep? Do the water's running on this? We found this guest,

uh,

by,

I heard an interview that he did on

another podcast actually.

And, uh, it

was incredible

decided to reach out to the guy and a friend of the show. Uh, Chad, mark, and, uh, he's got a YouTube channel blood on the

razor wire, the book out, you got a book on the reason why I go on Amazon.

If you want to stop being stupid and you want to hear some real G shit and you want to read some real prison stories, you want to hear the real, the raw, the unfiltered go on Amazon, get blood on the razor wire and fucking read. Not only me and I, I read it. Not only is it a great book, but he put, he put a lot of energy into the descriptions and you feel like you're right there.

So without further ado, Chad Martin and progress recording is in progress. Um, how are you doing this morning chat

show. What's going on, man? I appreciate you guys bringing me on the show.

Absolutely. It's a pleasure to have you on man. Quite moved by what we've heard from Schwartz. He gave us a rundown last week.

Um, and then we started looking at you and Schumann dove in deep and man, just some incredible stories, man. So I don't know where, how do we start with this? Jumaan why

don't we start since we're we're we're at the top here. Why don't we show, why don't we? Okay, so just to give Mr and Mrs. Earbuds, a little bit of a teaser, he's got some interesting stories about names you've heard.

For instance, he may have. Been in a situation where he was able to have conversations with Whitey Bulger, but we're not going to talk about that. Now. That's just a little teaser motherfucker. We're just setting that up. Why don't you chat March? Why don't you tell us what you're doing currently, the work that you do to support people getting out of their situation.

All right. So, um, let me do it this way. Right? At the age of 24, I was sentenced to 40 years in federal prison, but the prison wasn't always a nice guy in the beginning, turned my life around about 10 years in became a jailhouse lawyer. I ended up getting released on the first step back, got out of prison, put together a paralegal and prison consultant firm called freedom fighters.

So that's kind of what I'm doing now helped a lot of people like Russell Simmons, son. I just did his 2255. Got him back into court. Um, the rapper little baby, you know, this might not go over easy with some of your people, but his real. It's not the dude that people think it is to do named Rodney love.

That was sentenced to life. Plus 55 years. I got his stuff in court right now. So that's pretty much what I'm doing, man. I help a lot of people. I help people that call me and say, Hey, I've got a girl from Florida said, look, my baby's father's in prison. I'm poor. I worked part-time at McDonald's. I wrote his stuff for free man.

That dude's got 45 years. He deserves to get out for a non-violent drug offense.

Right? So Chad, how many people generally, approximately have you helped get out of prison?

Probably got over a hundred people out of prison.

Damn. You're a fucking Saint bro. That's fucking fantastic brother.

You see that? I mean, there's a lot of people out there that talk a good one.

This guy is actually putting his hand out, lifting people up. Now let me

get clear on something. If you wouldn't have lawyered up yourself, if you wouldn't have gathered your own information, tie yourself, would you still be in prison?

100%. I'd probably still be in prison, man. I met this dude named Cedric Dean, right.

And USP Lee. And he said, Hey man, you want to get out of prison? He said, they're going to change the law. Do they're going to bring back parole? Something's going to happen. He said, what you're going to end up doing is you're going to go to the parole board. You're gonna tell him, yeah, I got caught with five knives and I've been selling dope in here.

I stabbed two people. He says that the resume you want. And I said, nah, man, not really invited me to one of his classes, man. And that dudes to do that pretty much taught me everything and put me on the right track. I didn't get out of the right track that day, but that was the start of the process.

Right.

So how did you, so when I read through your book and I listened to the various interviews, one of the things that came up for me. You know, you were accused of, let's say, uh, being a businessman and selling things that were illegal, but not really that violent, there wasn't any violence. How is it that you got 40 years in the fed for that?

Well, it was a nonviolent drug offense, right? So this is what they did back then. You would get five years for the, there were guns involved, right? So let me explain it this way so that your, your, your viewers will probably be shocked. The listeners will probably be shocked for the first gun. It was a 12 gauge shotgun.

I got five years gun. They found in the house. The second gun was a 22 rifle and they gave me 25 years for that. So you get five years for the first gun, 25 stacked onto to that, which is 30 and then 10 for the drugs. That's how they,

the country is this

it's our country, man, what state was that? And

it's in New York, but this was a federal law.

And that's something that they changed with the first step back and as crazy as this sounds right. Congress had all this stuff was wrong, so we're going to fix it, but we're not going to fix it for the dudes that are in prison. What we will do is we're not going to make it retroactive, but we're going to leave it in the judge's discretion to determine if there's an extraordinary and compelling reason to reduce your sentence.

Right? So a guy like me in New York, I got out on that, a guy in Florida. You're not you, they can't get out guys in Georgia. They can't get out guys in Philly, in Pennsylvania. They can't get out under that long.

All right. So let's pause it right there in what was going on in your life at the time that you were charged.

And at the time that I was charged, man, I was living in the street life man thought I was a tough guy. I thought I was that dude selling drugs. You know, I had a, I had a little team and I thought I was the man thought I was untouchable. Never realized that, you know, I was throwing bricks at the penitentiary that whole time and big ones.

Obviously I ended up with a 40 year sentence.

Right. Um, how, what was, did you ever find out how they were able to pull a case together? Uh,

Uh, 100%, man, what happened? The dude that I was a dude that I used to look up to when I was a kid, man, he ended up becoming a drug addict. I seen him one day, he's walking down the street and he waves me down.

He says, Hey, give me a ride chatter. I got to go to the rehab center. Right? And he's like, but I'm not going until tomorrow. My parents are putting me in there and he kicked me out. It's pouring down rain. I give the dude a ride. He says, can you buy me something to eat? Pretty much. He's homeless about to do something to eat.

After that, I take him to the hotel. He says, Hey, when I get out, will you give me a job? I also had a home improvement company back then. So I told me, I may call me. I never expected this dude to call me. He gets out of jail. I help him out. He ends up back on drugs. He ends up working for the cops, wears a wire on me.

He gets me, he gets me jammed up. I ended up with a 40 year sentence over. Hey

Luxe. I mean, what is that? What you shake your head? What, what is that? I mean, you've been in the game. You've done some time in prison. I mean, real prison and stuff like that. So what do you, what are you hearing here? What are your, what is your reaction to that guy?

Helps a guy out and then the guy fucking turns into,

oh, shit, scumbag, right? Shit. And he did it to save his own. Because he got busted for something and didn't want to do any time. So they set him up to ride them, but the whole thing, but, but that's just one part of it. The other part of it is the law enforcement, usually local law enforcement is already after you.

They're going to get rid of you. They have an eye on you. So they're just waiting for the, the fish is going to show up the guy that's going to give you up is going to show up. They're just waiting on for him to show up with a possession or something. And as soon as he does, they've got a couple of people that they're going to get locked up.

And it sounds like he was on their target list, right. Imagine. Right. And they were going to get them out and they were just waiting for the right guy that kinda had his way to get in and wire them up. And it's a fucking bullshit, man. And that's fucking setting somebody up. You asked me, that's framing somebody.

What's weird about that. Is, is that like, how do I say this in a, in a certain way, it sometimes feels like law enforcement allows certain people to operate and do business in the streets. And then it comes a time where they decide somebody. They want to take somebody

off. No, here's what it sounds like is the cops can't get you playing by the rules.

See, we all have to play by the rules supposedly, but they don't, they can't get you. Now, if you're fucking up, then they're going to get you and your asked out. But if I'm covering my ass and you got to cheat to get me, and that's what they're doing, man, that's some S see, that's that dirty ass shit, man.

You know? But you, you, you got your roar. I got railroad. All right. Go for it. Right. But if you got to cheat, you got to set me up to get me well that's and that's what a cop does. Cause that's what cops do. Right. It's kinda in their blood.

Okay. So Chad marks, why does this not just fall to the state? I mean, it's a drug thing.

So why did this turn into a federal?

All right. So my city, man, it's like, my city is a viciously violent city. Right? What city is that? In? Rochester. New York. Okay. So back then, man, it was, it was off the hook. So they put a joint task force with the local police and the fence and they just started knocking people off, like, you know, dudes that were, you know, doing big things.

I guess where I was at, I was like fourth or fifth on the list. There was a list. Trust me. And they knocked us off. One of the kids, they not the kid, they not just before me. He ended up getting out of prison, man got back in the game and they tied him up man and killed him. Dude robbed them, killed him. And that was, that was the end of his story.

You know what I mean? He ended up with a 10 year sentence and he got out, dude, he wasn't out. I wouldn't say six months as an Asian kid. Yeah. So they, they had their little list and just knocked this down and it took us to federal court so they could match us real estate. I'd I probably ended up with three years, bro,

right?

Three to five

to how did they make the decision though? How, how do they say like, all right, we're going to charge, you know, uh, Chad was, we're going to go through the federal system. We're not going to let them do state time. They just take over the case.

That's it? Well, like I said, it was a joint task force, but if you got guns and drugs, they were definitely taking you over there.

But this is the crazy part. Like your brother was saying right here, this is what they were doing. They could have had me when they had the first gun, when they busted that first house, they had me, but that first gun was only 10 years for the drugs and five for the gun. So they waited to bust another house because they knew it was another 25 years.

So if we were a danger to the community, why didn't you take us off the, you know, off the street when you had us on that first 9, 24 C, because you needed that second one to really give us a banger and take us over to the fence.

Right?

So I think the other thing too, though, Toumani was at some point in time, They're putting him together as an organized group of people.

That's how the feds are getting rid of them. Like state

lines, crossing state lines from the,

no, that he's, that they're operating as an organization. I think that's what calls

feds into it. Yeah. But if you're operating as an organization and you stay within the state, I still don't understand how that can become federal federal.

So the supremacy clause only comes into play only, only go ahead. What is it?

Charters with a Rico dude. It was just a conspiracy. Right? So, and like I said, what they were doing was in the state, they knew they were only getting a little bit of time with the Lord that I had. I probably got three years did 90 days in a shock camp type program back then I would've got out.

So that's why they don't. Statewide instead they say, no, we're going to take you over to the feds where we can give you all this time, because we can't give you five years for the first gun.

How about this? How do they determine that who's who makes that decision?

Well, so the fed. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, and listen, uh, Mr.

Marx is also, you know, a defacto attorney so he can check ness, but in that fed system, the fed ultimately is king. So the fed can only interact in states. If they can make an argument that whatever activity is going on, whether it be sales normal or criminal somehow affects another state or cross the state lines, that's when federal jurisdiction can actually attach.

Now, usually what happens in a lot of cases, it even happens in the civil is a situation where you've you violated, or the state could hear this, or it also violated a federal law and the fed can hear it when there's a choice. The fed can decide. No, we take precedents. If the fed can't take up and its laws, don't run Supreme over state laws, then there would be no power in the fed to collect taxes and do all the other shit that they do.

Does that sound about right?

That's about right in what determines, where you go, either state or fed is how much time they can give you. If they can bang you in the feds with more time, that's where you're going. Even the state, then they're going to bang you in the state. But

hold on that. So that's a, that's a discretion point.

This is what people don't understand about the law in a lot of ways, there's a lot of black and white shit, right? It's like you broke this law and then this is going to happen. But for every one of those, there's a million, little discretionary decisions that can be made. And what Chad's talking about is there's a point at which the fed can say, we're going to step in or step out.

It's a fed question. And it's usually the prosecutor's authority. Right. And he can look at it. And just as Chad said, for whatever reason, he can say, he'll do more time in his state. So we'll let it go. Or he's going to do more time in the fed. So we're going to take them up through the fed systems that sound about right.

Chad, I'm going to

give you an example. So let's say. I kill someone in the state and there's drugs involved. Right? A lot of times they're just going to charge you with the murder over there. They're not going to bring you over to the fence because over there they're going to give you 25 to life. That's why they would take that over there.

But when you've got a drug conspiracy with guns, dude, there's dude, my boy had 55 years. He's out from Utah Weldon Angelos. And this dude got caught with like, he had two sales of like a quarter pound of weed here and a quarter pound of weed there. They gave him 55 years because he had a gun on him. So they were like, okay, we're going to get him in the feds.

And the state would be like nothing to be a year. So we're going to give them five for the first transaction because of the gun 25 for the second transaction, because of the gun and another 25 for the third transaction because of the gun and mind you, it was the same gun, just three different transactions.

And check this out, check this out. Let me ask you this. Now that we're in this jurisdictional issue and then we'll get to the other, other pieces, but I'm curious to hear chat's perspective on, you know, Epstein, right? The infamous Epstein. First question I have for you, Chad, is how is it that the fed cut him a sweetheart deal?

When he, it was clear that he was molesting or sexually assaulting underage women, but back in Florida, in those early days, how do you square that with the fact that a guy like, like you just described, maybe he is a dealer, maybe he did sell weed or, or whatever it was, but the fed is actively using its discretionary power.

So lock a guy up for 75 years. But in the case, like Epstein, they're using their discretionary powers to cut it out, let him out on weekends. How do you, what is your perspective

on that? You know what my perspective is, man, when you've got friends in high places, you got big money. That's how that thing works out.

He was friends with somebody. He might've been friends with the, with the district attorney, maybe not the assistant district attorney, but obviously the district attorney, someone was friends, Hey man, that's our guy, you know, sweep this under the rug. It's kinda like a bullshit case. I'll give you an example.

Our mirror, her husband was over here selling crack. She ends up, they put it all over the news. They're blasting her. You know, they find a bunch of crack. She ends up copping out to like, not even a misdemeanor dude and no nothing. And she's involved in this shit, but that's because she was the mayor. Right.

They sweep it under the rug. Right? If it was me or you over here involved in a crack cocaine, conspiracy, I mean, we'd be going to prison for a long time. I

got, you know what I'm telling

you, I'll tell you something else. I have a friend that's out right now and he's coming on our show. Next month this guy got caught with almost a million dollars in cash and Beverly.

Where would you store

a million dollars in cash? Where would you store

that? He was going to store it somewhere, but it was in his car in a bag. Yeah. What? It was like 800 or 800 grand. They doubt Beverly Hills PD pulls this dude over. So he thinks it's Beverly those beads, but when they pull them over, yeah.

A couple other cars are there as they have him pulled over, talking to the cost, wherever they ended up taking him in this guy, thought he was facing a lot of times he got oh, art and got bailed or whatever, very within the first day, Mr. Mrs. Earbuds, if you

don't know what Orr is, his own, we're

cognizant.

He got, he got out. So he's hiring an attorney and ultimately this case that he was looking at doing, I think it was, you know, three to five years and they couldn't get him on anything because they couldn't actually. There was nothing but tax evasion or something or some kind of shit, but they dropped everything.

If you just turned over the money, I'm bringing them on the show, man. If he signed over and just gave that money away, the case kind of disappeared, he didn't really suffer any consequences. If you wants to make a big fucking fight over that money, he's got to come up with this, that, and they're moving forward on the case.

So Elena, I just hear crazy swells like that directly from somebody. And I'm like, and I

hear all these crazy stories

about the feds kind of running their own show outside of the lines of the laws or anybody else will ask Chad, listen, I, what do you, what do you think is shit like that? Do you hear stories like that?

Honestly, bro, I've heard stories like that. I'm not going to tell you that I seen it on paper like that, but I have heard stories like that. I mean, you had the guys down there in, uh, the Lucasville riots in Ohio. No, let him do his, got destroyed by the cops. And they're like, look, you guys did this to us. We did that to you.

No lawsuits, man. You don't get no time, man. You just go away. We're going to release you. You know, I just read, I just read something about that the other day. Someone sent me some stuff on that. So I've heard that. I haven't personally

seen it though. All right. So, so Chad, so when we go back to your situation, I mean, did you have an attorney represent you and, and did, did you go to trial or did you take the plea?

How

did it go? I ended up going to trial dude, believe it or not, man. I paid 40 grand for an attorney for one of the dudes that was supposed to be the best round from. And I felt like man, 40 grand, I got 40 years at the end of the day, right. The guy to do his job. He really didn't man, this and this was supposed to be one of the best where I'm from.

He's on the news all the time. Now he does death penalty cases. I mean, he was supposed to be top notch, but

how did he drop the ball on.

They dropped the ball a couple of times in my situation, like even during the trial, like when he was talking to my mom and my father, they're like, Hey, my stepfather, like, we can't even hear this dude.

Like when he was talking, you couldn't hear him. He wasn't prepared. Um, he got prepared like three days before the trial started, he came to see me was like, Hey, I'm like, dude, we're about to have a month long trial. Like, you've got to get an adjournment. He tried to get into German. It didn't work out. He that's how he dropped the ball.

Do they walk in there? And he would have pad of paper and he starts writing stuff down. And suddenly he had this been prepared for this prepare for the witnesses.

Yeah. Right. And what's the effect on your case? If you take it to trial or you just take their

deal? Well, you get what they call the trial penalty.

Right? If you go to trial, like in my case, there was, there was a plea that could have resulted in as low as 10 years, you know, at one point where I was just telling the lawyer like, Hey man, try to, I know I can't get below the mandatory minimum at 10, but see if you can get this gun off. And he's like, all right, man, I'll see what I.

He ended up getting a big death penalty case. He had no time for my case. So eventually the government ended up superseding the indictment. So I had one count 10 to life and because the lawyer was playing games on, on a two point enhancement, which meant a difference of two or three years, while he's playing games.

The government said, man, these dudes playing games, they superseded my indictment with 16 more counts. Now my mandatory minimum went from 10 to life. So 40 to life. That means I had to get at least 40 years.

Let's let's just, let's just let everyone let that soak in. Chad pays big city, lawyer, 40 grand take care of me at some point, Chad realizes like the best I'm ever going to get is 10 years and let's just call it quits and let's get the.

But let's see if we can do this other thing. Now, this lawyer, big city lawyers out there eating fucking egg McMuffins and drinking all night, and God knows, you know, I don't know. This is just me talking about, you know, blow off of his paralegals, who knows. Right. And next thing you know, he drops the ball and now Chad's facing 40 years, 30 years.

How much is 30 years? How can you even quantify?

I don't even know what the fuck,

bro. That's what, that's what they call the trial penalty. It's like, how dare you go to trial and test us. So now we're going to smack

the same

country. That's not going to smash the attorney who fucking got you in that situation.

They're going to smash you. Are you kidding?

Yeah, they're going to smash jam.

Oh, we're going to smash your client. Now show you

about this. Right? If you, at one point, say the government, we believe a sentence between 11 and 14 years is appropriate for the crimes that you committed. And then, because I exercise my right to trial, that's no longer anything.

You're going to give me an additional 1 29 years. That's that

that's bullshit. And that's the way the law is like that out here too. You either take this. Cause if you don't take this, we're giving you the max. They do that shit all the time. That's your fucking penalty for exercising your rights rather.

That's and that's how it is. And that's how it's written down. And that's what they do every day.

And you know why they do that because the, the, the founding bureau

scared and not to fucking bark or, or, or, or leap, that's why they do

it. And because the founding fathers set an extremely high standard for finding a guy guilty, reasonable beyond, uh, beyond a reasonable doubt, that's the highest in the law you can get.

And the reason why the founding fathers did that, they just came off of dealing with a king that was railroad motherfuckers, torturing them to confess to crimes. They didn't commit. So now, so now the. Because, you know what? We don't know if we can reach that. So what we'll do is if that guy wants to go to trial, it's five times what you would face.

If we're just going to give you a deal, that's fucking bull shit, right? Check.

Well, once again, you're back before the king. And let me tell you something, you know, some young dudes might be listening to your shoulder out there getting money. Let me tell you the other part that's stacked against you in your closing argument, the government goes right.

They, they do their closing, you do your closing and then the government gets a chance to rebut that, right? They go last, but the presumption of innocence is over you. Let me tell you some beyond a reasonable doubt that stuff's all bullshit. They tell you it's the greatest system in the world and it may be, but that's because all the other systems in the world, or even more 10 times worse.

Right? But the majority of the time, when you go to trial, guess what? They're going to paint this picture. That you're a bad guy. And sometimes you're just going to get convicted off of bad guy evidence. He's a bad guy. You should find him guilty and we should send him to prison. And that's how they do it.

Man. Most people get convicted. They're going to try.

And how did all of this at this time, uh, affect the, I guess, who were the people in your life? You had your mom? I mean, was she biting her nails and stressed out and worried? How did this all affect her?

Oh man. It, it destroyed my mother, man. I was married.

Um, my wife ended up having to go. Her said, dude, I got 40 years. She couldn't stick around. You know what I mean? So she ended up going out with her life, but that's the rule that I got out and remarried and just had twins with

don't don't don't don't gloss over that. Check this out.

It's incredible. Hold on.

Chegg is 40 years, right. Chad, how does it feel to hear all right, 40 years in prison? What does that feel like?

Well, I mean, when that happened, you're devastated, right? I mean, absolutely devastated. It really, it really hit me that night. When you get your cell alone and you look in the mirror, you're like, wow, You got 40 years.

This is it, bro. This is, this is your life. And when I left my city, you know, right where the federal courtroom is, is my neighborhood. It's where I'm from. And I drove through that neighborhood on that. I think they had an expedition that us marshals are driving me to a place where they houses at an immigration facility.

Actually, that's where they were housing us at. And I just I'm leaving my city. Like I'm never going to see this shit again, man. And it broke my heart in a drive through my hood, knowing that this is it for the next 40 years. It destroys you mentally and emotionally just absolutely destroys you

bro. So check this out.

So Chad's wife and Chad probably they have a discussion. This is big boy topics and this is real life. So he's it's 40 years. She has to live her life. Right. And probably no hard feelings. When, so Chad, when you got released after how many years did you get yourself?

I did 17 years, five months at 21

days, bro.

Okay. Just limited to the story about you and your, your, your wife. So 17 years he gets out and w and how does your wife react to what happens?

She ends up contacting me and I'm pretty much, I'm like, look, man, you know that ship sailed. I love you. I care about you, but you got this life over here and you gotta, you gotta go live your life.

You know, you got to live the life that you created. And, you know, I knew I had a 40 year sentence at the time. So she, she didn't do like others. A lot of chicks do don't. She came and told me like, look, it's just tough on me. You know, she was struggling to do it emotionally. She was crying a lot. She, it wasn't a life force, so she went on, but yeah, she contacted me and I tried to push her away.

But honestly, man, I loved her man that she loved me obviously. And, uh, we ended up reconnecting. It's it's a crazy story, but I tried to push her away for like a month dude. She came to my house and I was like, look, you know, You got to go home. You got to go to the life that you have now. And you know, some dudes might be like, what dude?

Honestly, she was married, man. She had, she had, she, she was married and she went home and told her husband like two weeks later, like, look, I can't live like this. You know, I feel like my real husband came home and he had 40 years. Our life was over wit and I never thought he'd get out. It isn't that I wanted to leave him, but I had to have a life.

And now I just can't live like this. And that's kind of how it went, dude. And like, I didn't want to like, feel like I'm taking dudes, girl. You know what I mean? Right. She was, she was my wife and I just, you know, unfortunate circumstance and I, I did push her away bro. 100%. She'd tell you that. I ended up reconnecting, bro.

I loved her man. And now they have

twins.

I talk about her in the book.

Incredible. Think about that. Steve deemed credible, bro.

I mean, Steve, how would you, what is the

best show? In the world. It didn't the stories we hear on this show. You don't hear stories like this ever. Steve,

let me ask you a question.

And, and, and because the love aspect of this thing really moved me because it's kind of like what Chad says. It's like, on the one hand, you kind of understand the other guy, because what, what did he do? The guy didn't do nothing wrong, but you almost in this circumstance, I mean, how would you feel if you were the other guy, Steve?

Oh, that that's

what everybody's asking themselves right now. This new story, you and the other guy, Willie lump lump. Now, I don't know, man. We don't want to talk about that guy. I feel horrible. He didn't do nothing. Right? I mean, that guy couldn't wait. That wasn't in the cards for him, but GAM home. I love that part,

right.

Me too. Right. But at the same time, this is one of those scenarios where you're like, real love is real love. Right?

Well, but I would also have to think that you, you, weren't the same exact person that left that relationship now there's, you're a very different person. So you're pushing, you might push your way saying I'm not even the same guy was when we were together.

I want to keep it real with you. Right. And Alina aspects. I was the same dude, man. And she was the same chip. Right. I changed like my fault pattern. I changed my character as far as I don't want to be in the streets, dude. I'm not selling drugs no more. I appreciate, you know, he talked about the founding fathers.

I appreciate life Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Right. But other than that, dude, I am pretty much the same dude. And she is too. Do we have, we had a connection. Like I'll tell you crazy shit. Do you remember back in the day I had the Celtics warm-up suit dude, and like she pop all the buttons in the grocery store on standing at the counter and she's just rolling.

I'm like embarrassed dude, trying to pull my pants up. Like we used to just do crazy shit. Like we had to do, like, even to this day, like we do crazy shit, like laughing and playing. We just have a great relationship, man. Like a relationship where we never back then did we like had two arguments ever? Like, it was just, there was that there was that connection and not to, you know, brush over, you know, the other dude, dude, I did talk to do and said, dude, I don't want your wife, man.

Have your family, bro. Like I talked to the dude, like he, he called me and was crying and I'm like, damn bro. Like I felt.

Yes,

listen, bro.

That's heavy duty, bro. That's that's that?

I mean, this story just gets deeper and deeper. Listen, we, you

see my YouTube channel. The first video I did, there's like flashbacks of me and her and the pictures and it in, in that first bit, something like a three-minute video on the YouTube channel value.

No, my brother though. But, but the one circumstance that you present right here, it's different than if you just showed up and you were some other guy, right? This is the one instance where that guy's like, if he's a real man, he's like fucking dude at a life sentence and he can't. I got a bow gracefully. I don't know them to say, listen,

listen, this is one of those situations.

Listen. Cause if

you got married, listen, cause if I married her, I'm just going to say this. And she told me, my old man got 40 years in the back of my head. What I would be thinking is there's a chance as motherfucker could get out, right? There's a chance this dude could get out. And I need to know that, right.

That would be my home responsibility too, to think that way. Right? You, you, you

at least like own that possibility walking into the situation. Exactly.

They're taking school spirit, just getting to the awesome saved by the bell. New season streaming. Now let's do this baby only on peacock sin. Listen though. That's true. And Chad, right,

we got to have you ever as a war reoccurring guests, listen,

check this out. Hold on, hold on. Hold on. All right. Listen, you really want to know about the story.

Go to amazon.com.

Buy your book,

blood on a Raceway, but listen, this is what I'm trying to say though. This is what I'm trying to

say. Come on, come on. I couldn't pass her up, bro.

wait. Woo. You got

to tug boat off a fucking big Lux. That's a big

one. Damn it, man. Good job. Pardon me?

Let's say no, but check this out. Check this out. You're right. Like a man, a man would know, okay, I'm walking into a situation that has maybe a 1% possibility

of that. Right,

right. But your heart would still turn you into a bitch because even though you know, the real, there's a part of you that would be hurting and you still would cry.

I would say it don't matter. I'm not saying because you got accepted doesn't mean you're not fucked up by why.

Damn, so. All right. So we've talked about, uh, that aspect and by the way, congratulations on your family. Congratulations on the twins. Did you, when you were laying in, when you were laying in the gray box, did you ever in your wildest dreams think that you would be back with your old lady and have twins and live in the life you're living right now?

Honestly, never. In my wildest dreams and one of my right-hand dudes right here, he had just did like 15 years down in Victorville, California. And I was like, damn, bro, you still want to see me right when I won my case, I asked him that that night he said, He slammed me. Right-hand man, I'm gonna keep it real with you, bro.

Let her go, man. It's over man. Probably not just let it go, man. It's over now. Yeah, man. You're right. And I can shook it off. You know what I mean? But he was wrong.

Hey, when was it? All right. I am sorry. I have to go here still, but I had, so I love the story so much. So you shake it off you man, up, right? You, you look at facts are facts.

How did the actual first contact go? Like what happened?

Oh, all right. So check this out, right? You're probably gonna laugh about this. Yeah. I asked my sister, Hey, what's her last name? Like my sister and him knew where she was at and everything. So I want to check her on Facebook. So I find her on Facebook.

And I, and I see this thing on there and she's part of the neighborhood watch community, right? She's on some cops shit. Now walk away was like, I'm all the way, like out of the way, like I don't, I'm not going to contact I'm on parole. I mean, I'm not, I know games and she's married and they call the police.

I'm not going back to the jail. I don't want nothing to do with it. I see all the way out of the way, you know, the first contact was, um, she just reached out to me, man, and I was, Hey, what's going on? How are you? I hope things are going well for you hotline.

Well, at Highline chat, please slow it down for a second.

So did she call you?

She does call me. I'm not going to say who, but yeah. Through someone else. So this is the deal though. No, hold up bro. She calls my paralegal firm phone number and she calls and she's like saying dumb stuff and I don't even know who, I don't even recognize the voice. I don't know what's her.

And she said, I got a little bit, she told me to say that. You know, when we reconnected and I'm like, okay, so what can I do to help you? And she's like, well, uh, uh, I'm like, okay. And I'm kind of getting frustrated. So I just, you know, she hangs up on me, calls me again, does the same thing, like a week later.

So I'm like, all right, whatever. I don't know what's her. And then eventually she calls me through someone else and I'm talking to the person and I say, Hey, you know, how's she doing? She goes, it's me. But I really knew it was her. It was on a message messenger. And then we ended

up talking on the phone. And then when you talk on the phone, even though you're going to do the right thing and push her away and try to snap her out of whatever fantasy she might be having at that time.

Um, was there a part of you though that knew where this was headed?

Well, honestly, through when we first seen each other, it was, she was just like, look, nothing could ever change, but I wanted to see you. And I'm like, yeah, you got to accept that. You know what I mean? That's, that's what I think. My fate was and did it hurt my feelings?

Of course it did bro. But there's another part of me where I was like, I'm not trying to hurt the kids or anybody. I'm just, you know what I mean? And let's keep it real, man. We're all men. I just did 18 years in prison. What do you think? I'm thinking, I know what you're thinking. I'm coming out here to have fun and do me.

Right. But honestly, bro, and I'm sure you know, I struggled, man. I'm not gonna lie to you over my situation with her because I really loved her. Do what? I had a hard time for many, many, many years over this. It hurt me man for I wasn't good man until probably 2010, dude, I used to play basketball all day, go to the law library at night.

That's how I got over that shit, man. And really I never got over it. And then as soon as I seen her and talked to her and seen her pictures, it was like, dude, it was like crushed my heart again, reoccurring I'll get, get hurt, man. It hurt. It hurt to see her with, you know, someone else in a FA all the things that we had.

Like having a son and I used to daydream about, you know, throwing a football to my son and coach my son's baseball team. These are the things that I used to think about with her bro. And she had it with someone else. So yeah, it crushed me, man,

man. And I just,

I, I mean, I love it. So now, so, okay. So we've talked about the love aspects, but let's go back to, um, now you went to, so you were in the fed system and then I know that you went to a different, a couple of different places on the way to Sandy.

And so for Mr and Mrs. Ear buds, what is Sandy?

Okay. So back then, big Sandy and my perspective and a lot of people's perspective was probably the most dangerous, most violent federal prison in the United States, bro. Hands down. I mean, Victorville was a close second. Hazelton's a close second, but it was big Sandy, I'd go into big Sandy dude and it's like, right, right from Davis.

They're crushing dudes, man. I'm not just talking about, you know, beating dudes up there, stabbing dudes the first night on there, dude slaps the cop in the middle of the day room and the cop grabs his face and he goes, what did I do? And all that. And I'm like, I'm from New York. I did time in New York state prison before the feds.

Right? If you hit a cop in New York state, they got these Oak sticks, dude, they're gonna, they're going to kill you, man. This dude just slap the cop. And the cop was like, what did I do? And I'm like, what? The, I couldn't even believe it, bro. Wow. I knew I was in a dangerous zone. As soon as I seen the car. The cops were scared, bro.

Right. And so, um, and I also in, in reading your story and also listening to some of the interviews, I saw that as everybody does in prison, and it's an old story now, essentially, right? The various, um, organizations or race organizations, uh, peep you out and find out where you run in. Did that happen for you

immediately?

As soon as you walk in white dudes approach you, Hey, where are you from? Who you run. And that's an immediate, if you, if you're Hispanic and you come in there, I mean, it's rough for somebody Hispanic brothers from the west coast. Obviously they take some of them dudes in the room and take your shirt off, man.

They want to see your tattoos. They want to, they got to make sure, let's say, you know, you're south Saudi from Southern California and duke comes in. They want to see your tattoos, bro. What I mean,

Steve, does that track for you? Does that make sense? What he's saying

or wall? I haven't, you know, I only spent a couple of nights in the tombs and I didn't get to get to cross up with a whole bunch of people, but I don't know how, I don't know what happens out there with dudes or something all the way up.

Right.

In, in like big Sandy big

Sandy. Is that, would that, what would, that would be like that's

in Kentucky. It's in Kentucky. Yeah. Yeah. And like one of the poorest, most fucked up places in Kentucky. One of the great things about Chad Marx's book is he gives you a little bit of history about big Sandy, about Lyndon Johnson landing there in a helicopter, in the shithole of shitholes and all that other kind of shit to eventually develop and set aside like 308 acres for this like thing called big Sandy, that whatever that's the pro the system, he came from.

Another thing that I thought was interesting about your story was, uh, you actually, and the other thing is, is how do people find you on YouTube to see all your interviews and the different things you discuss?

Just go ahead and jump on that YouTube channel blood on the razor wire TV. And the mission of the channel is this bro, to save kids from life imprisonment and premature death are our stories and our experiences.

And like the stuff that I talk about, it's not stuff that I made up, man. It's really, it's my. It's the life that I lived, the interactions that I've been through and I bring dudes on there and, and, you know, I always ask them, what message do you have for your younger self? What message do you have for kids that are on the wrong road?

And you'd be surprised how many dudes got out of prison and hit me up and say, dude, I really need your show, man. You know, I'm 30 years old, but I did 10 years of helps me not forget where I came from. So I never got. Right. It won't be disappointed.

Right. And one of the things that's not disappointing is in kind of like our show, you know, um, Chad keeps it very real and talks a lot about different things in part, because, and listen, this is always like some kind of issue that comes up in act I on it, I might, me personally, I don't give a fuck.

Like we talk about it for real. Some of it is glorifying some of the violence and the different shit that goes on to a certain extent. But part of that is, is that some of the younger people, they want to hear that. And then when they're here, they also get all the other pieces of wisdom and everything.

Is that sort of how your show runs Chad?

100% man, 100%.

So along that line, my friend, my fine feathered friend. Why don't you tell us what happened when you got stabbed in pre.

All right. So this is what happens, right? I'm hustling and USP Lee. I got a store. I sell stamps stamps or the currency in federal prison.

This kid owes me $45. He's an Asian kid. He owes me $45 and he starts arguing with me saying, I only owe you 40. So I'm like, check this out, bro. You're right. You only, and this wasn't, I wasn't such a nice guy. I'm not you're right. Pay me to $40. Don't ask me for shit. And they just keep screaming. I said, Hey man, watch how you talk to me out here.

We're in public, out here. And he's yelling. So honestly, dude, I blast the kid. Boom. I, I drop them kid from New York, goes over to the top of him. He goes, you got knocked the fuck out his feelings, bro. You know like that Friday thing. Excuse. So a week later, dude, I'm coming back from the store and do, comes up behind me.

I don't even know he's out there and he stabs me in the back. He hits me. Boom, boom, boom. He hits me three times with an ice pick. Right? So when he hits me, I'm like, I spin around. I'm like, and I touched my back. My coat, one of my co-defendants is in prison with me. And I tell him, I say, Hey man, grab him. He starts running my co-defendants chasing him.

And I'd say, Hey, you stabbed me. It's like my co-defendant the Fred Flintstone dude. Like when I said he stabbed me, like my co-defendant froze up and stopped. Like the dust came up off the concrete, but I changed dude and it's rain and he's weaving in and out. We even in and out. Right. And he slips, bro, if he didn't slip, dude, I ain't gonna lie to you.

I wouldn't have caught him. Wow. He slips and falls. I jumped on the kid dude for real, I take the knife and throw it to the side and I just pound this dude's head in bro. Like, and I'm not trying to be like, I'm the baddest dude on the planet. But dude, I pound this dude's head in the cops run. They tackle me.

The cop starts trying to punch me in my homeboy, just got stabbed like 30 something times bro. And I seen this shit. So I'm thinking, damn, I'm stabbed. I tell the cop, man, I'm stabbed. I'm stabbed, bro. Like, I'm not trying to die out here. Right. And I want to do it to stop punching me the cop, you know, So these dudes, and I'm a big dude, bro.

They picked me up off the ground, bro. Like my feet are off the ground and they start running with me to medical. They get me to medical, they stick this long, Q-tip in my back and they're like, oh, you're all right. And they put me in the rec cage and I'm in the rec cage for like three, four hours. And once my adrenaline stopped pumping through it, I had to pull myself up off the rec cage, like grab a hold of it.

I couldn't get up man. And ended up making my way to the cell. I laid in the bed for like three or four days. But this is the crazy part, dude. There's another dude that gets stabbed right around the same time as me. Like that same day, he goes to the hole, they put the Q-tip in him and do all that shit. He dies from internal bleeding, bro.

They never send them to the outside hospital that could have been me. Brock would have been in that cell dude. I laid in that bed. I didn't eat, I didn't drink, but my celly was trying to help me out, man. Like I have a really good celly man and thrill duty. He was just doing it to help me man, because I was fucked up, man.

When,

how long do you think it took that dude to uh, Stab me three times. Like how long did that interval go,

dude? It was just like a machine gun, like bang, bang, bang, bang. It just hit me. And when he has two holes in

a scrape and when, how long do you think it took you to realize what just happened?

Dude? I thought he punched me.

I just thought dude punched me. I'm like, and then when I reached in my back and that's when I told my whole boy, like, I'm like, it was like immediate. Right. And I pulled my hand out and there's blood all over my hand. Right. So I'm like, yo man, Hey, catch him. He just stabbed me. That was it. I'm thinking one thing a fuck that if I'm going to die, I'm getting this dude before I die,

man.

And like where on the back? Where on the back did he stab you?

Right by my spine. My lower back man is sitting in the spine. Well,

it could have been so bad. And then, and then, um, how thick do you think? Because if they put a Q-tip in you, like how thick was the whole,

it was an ice pick dude. Like, you know, a lot of times they'll take like pieces off the fans, big industrial fans.

They'll take a piece of that off. Bend it sharpen it like a nail. And then, you know, Thailand, you're an on and put a little tape on there. That's what he hit me with, bro. He hit me with like, probably like a seven inch piece. It didn't go in it, dude. For real, it didn't really go in, go in, but it went in enough to put me in that bed for about three days after my adrenaline style and your whole body tightens up.

When you get stabbed, it would like things happen to your body that you can't even explain.

Steve, you ever been stabbed? No so you missed out big cut on the arm, but I haven't been stabbed, but I've seen the effects of, of, uh, welding rods. That's what fucking people would use in one prison I was at and they would take three welding rods and, and you take down all flaws and you take the three welding rods and hold them together like a triangle.

Right. And you just come across them, wrap them tight, tight, tight in dental floss till it becomes one piece of metal. Right. And then you just. And there were using those and they were about the equivalent of an ice pick when you fucking sharpen them down, but you could poke somebody. And usually when you poke them, there's not a lot of blood too fast.

Cause you're just poking them and nobody can really see the amount of damage that's been done. So if you poke them in the liver, the kidney, they could die two hours later. And I even know it, you know what I'm saying? And that's so there's different reasons, but I've seen the effects of like he's saying, poking somebody with an ice pick.

It's actually a good choice of weapon in prison. All right.

So w what was it? So then w the other part that I wanted to ask you is, so they got you, the, the prison, medics, they got you seated up and like, how big, how long is that?

Oh, the Q-tips probably like, oh bro, probably about a foot long. Maybe they don't put the whole Q-tip in your back, but it looks like a Q-tip it's something would like this cotton on the end and that's how they can tell how far it went in.

You get in there. Okay. You're good. But I mean, they did that with the native dude, told him he was good and he wasn't, he was internally bleeding, like you just said, hit him in the liver, the kidneys or something. And he died, bro. Right? Yeah.

So how bad does it hurt when they stick that Q-tip in your, in your dude?

Honestly, dude, I was so hyped up. My adrenaline was pumping, dude. I didn't really even feel it to be honest with you, but I felt that, you know, hours later, my, I couldn't even get off the ground. I could not stand up. All right,

man. It, and then they tried to charge you for defending yourself, right?

They did.

They well, they, they sent it over to the FBI and the FBI declined process. But they did find me guilty at a disciplinary hearing. And they said, because after he stabbed me, I was free. He ran away. I chased him. So if I would have killed that dude, that day, that would have been a body, bro. They would have charged me.

They would took me to federal court for killing him because I was already free. I was already safe. I chased him and killed him if I would've killed him.

And so like, it's interesting because there is a legal, there is a legal concept, which is like, yeah, in the outside, not in prison, you can get into a fight.

And if you defend yourself and you use proportionate force, usually then you won't be in trouble for, you know, shooting, punching whatever it is to get yourself out of a situation. But once the guy gets away and you're in the clear now then a lot of times we'll say you can't go chase that guy down, but prisons a different environment.

Like that's not, I mean, yeah, the guy might get away and you might not be in trouble. If that guy stays alive, you're still in danger. Right?

Well, that, that was my mistake, bro. When I knocked him out that day, one of us was supposed to leave. I let him stay. I let him stay. I should've pounded them out until, you know, one of us, we went to the hole and rolled, it comes out, one gets transferred.

I never made that mistake ever again. If I had a problem with you, bro, you're handling them either I'm leaving or you're leaving, you know what I mean? Right, right, right, right. We're not staying here, not together.

So, and then, so then other places, right, Chad, uh, it talks about the innovative aspect of a lot of prisoners, their minds are and everything.

What was the most impressive knife you ever saw in prison that was home?

The most impressive knife I've ever seen. I've seen two bad-ass knives, bro. One was a native American dude had a deer antler bro. And this shit was sharpened with the buffer homie. This was the most, I was like, wow, bro. He took the deer antler.

I was like a weird deer antler. Like it didn't break off and go and curse. It was just a straight deer antler, but almost completely straight. And it was probably 10, 11 inches long dude. And it was dangerous. How do you get a

deer antler in the prison

dude, they got like these ceremonies they have and you get all kinds of shit,

uh, under the right contact.

What was the other night? They get it tobacco too, right?

Yeah. The other knife was mine. I had a little beef with this dude from California named Sparky. Right. For real dude. He didn't like me. I didn't like him. And you know, usually you see that dude, you know, in prison like the east coast dudes in the west coast.

It ain't always, it ain't always, you know, gravy, you know what I mean? So even though we were both white we're beefing in, in one day in the day room, I'm like, Hey, listen, bro, stop with the bullshit man at night, like yelling and shit. And for really took off on me. He hit me. Boom, boom, boom. I hit him. And then they're like, yo, there's this older white dude there, man, that everybody respected from Texas.

And he's like, look, man, you guys gotta go ahead and shoot the Fairmont. So honestly do we ended up going in the, in the TV room and shooting the fair one, but that's because that dude intervene, but, and not on no tough guy shit, but dude, I rock this dude. Right? And then I, you know, UFC was big at that time.

I'm like watching UFC somehow I got lucky dude put them in a little choke hold, Luna, put them to sleep. He was snoring. And when the cops came, he drugged me and I kicked him off me. They were like, let them go. Let them go. And I kicked him off me dude. And it was the loudest snore I ever heard, but I did not want to let this do go because I seen the knife that he had.

I didn't expect him to take off on me. He was the butcher. He had a piece of steel. That looked like a butcher knife and it really wasn't. It was just a piece of steel. That was probably 12 feet looked like a chop.

I think that video of that brother dancing around

with that night, however, the hell they bent this thing over.

However, they bent this thing over. I have no idea, dude, but it had a grip on it. And I'm thinking if this dude makes it back to his cell, I'm in danger. Right. So I was glad that the older white dude kind of was like, yo look, man, we went in the white TV room dude, and we just got, they have different TV rooms back then black TV room, sports, TV room, white TV room.

And we just went in there and got it, man.

You used the, um, you said, shoot a fair one. Can you just describe that for a lot of people? Who, what does that mean?

Okay. So there's not a lot of fair ones in federal prison. Let's get that clear. Right. But once in a while, man, you can work it out where there's a fair amount.

A fair one is just one-on-one. Your people aren't involved. Let's say he's from the west coast and out from the east coast. Let's say I got the east coast car. He's got the west coast car, but he's not going to get his people involved. I'm not going to get my people involved and we're just going, we're going to fight one-on-one man to man and let the best man win

right on.

So what was your process for writing the book? There's a lot of guys that get out, they've got great stories, a story to tell, how did you manage to, or what was your writing process to get this book out? All

right. So I ended up going to the hole, right? As crazy as it sounds in 2008, I'm in the hole with my homeboy man that got stabbed like 30 something times.

And I'm like, dude, I'm gonna write a book about this shit. Cause I was in the hole, reading these books that dudes wrote in federal prison that running like Lowe's and camps. And I'm like, they ain't telling this. They can't tell our story because they never lived here. I sit in the shit that I've experienced in here.

I'm going to write this shit. And I started writing like a rough draft. And then I put it away for a couple years and then I'd pull it out. And then when I won my case, I said, man, I'm about to finish this book. This might be my stepping stone to make a couple of dollars to get on my feet. Right. So I wrote that book, man, nonstop.

After I found out I won my case. The crazy part is I was supposed to get out June 5th. My family comes to pick me up in Kentucky, bro. I see them in the parking lot. I'm walking down and they call on the walkie. He stopped him. There's an appeal. Stop him immediately. The prosecutor filed an appeal. Dude. It

tears me up a little bit, but uh, see everybody ain't always, you know, in all the time tough. Right. But uh, yeah, dude, I see my family right there, man. And they, they, they turned me around and because the cops had a little respect for me, cause all the time I had him, he said, Hey, you got clothes. I'll do. I didn't have any clothes because my family brought the clothes.

We're going to go to the hotel, take a shower change and do all that. But if I had clothes out and made it out, so they did like three or four dudes before me. And then when I was going, I'm walking out and just my sweat and my little prison hat and all that shit, they end up calling on the walkie talkie.

They stopped me putting me back in there. My lawyer, who was the dude that prosecuted John Gotti as a prosecutor, became a federal judge. Uh, John Gleason Gleason. He was a federal judge for 22 years. He ended up taking on my case pro bono at the end, he filed an appeal immediately doing it. Three weeks later, I ended up getting out, but the government filed an appeal due the night before I got out.

Bro, can you believe that? How are those three weeks, man? How are the three and a half weeks? I'm thinking I'm getting out. I mean, for like three months, I think yo, I'm getting. Right. And the day I'm supposed to get out, dude, they turned me around. I'm telling you I was 10 feet away from the gate, bro. I was already outside.

How do you, how do you not lose your shit? And just go ballistic and kicking ass, everybody. Like, how do you keep yourself contained?

I don't know. Do I did a video about this? I didn't keep myself contained. Um, I ended up doing something, man, with someone at the end of my bid dude, they thought I was someone else.

And they stole my radio on my headphones. Fun. I went and ripped the pull off the shower. And you know, I probably shouldn't talk about this publicly, but fuck it, man. It is what it is. Right. I went and he's dude sales dude, and these dudes were smoking K2, stealing people's shit. And there was a black dude from Alabama.

He had some size on him. I took him in the room, hit him in the chest, man. I say, let me tell you something, bro. My shit's off limits. You understand? And it wasn't him, man. It really stole the shit. It was a white dude and were like, you know, we made a mistake. We didn't realize, you know, someone else had moved to it.

Cause they had me in the corner. And when I got rejected, they sent me back and put me in a different sale. So the dude that was in that cell got moved. They were planning on stealing his shit. I just happened to come there at the right end, at the wrong time, I guess, and do it. I took that pole. I smashed dude shit in his room to run it through the unit.

We're in a unit doing like 400, probably like 300 some chains. Right. And there's one cop through three floors. There's a lot of dangerous places in there. So I just started smashing these dude shit in the room, a spit in one dude's face. I kicked another dude in an ass and I'm like trying, I'm like, damn dude, what are you doing?

Stop. And I ended up stopping myself, bro, but I was ready to just snap

dude. I mean, I got a, I got a feel that you, that the rage that you vented would have been really hard to put the lid on. So, I mean, it's amazing that you eventually got control of the situation. And then as Schwartz was asking, so now.

So then what you're almost out, they bring you back. There's an appeal. It's the law. So how the fuck long, anything takes anybody? Guess? How do you handle yourself going forward until you actually get out? What happens?

Honestly, Mo yeah, in my mind, I'm just like, damn man. I couldn't even believe it. It it's, it's almost impossible.

And at that point I was like, man, I started feeling like, man, it wasn't meant to be you, man. I'm just, I'm stuck, man. I'm here. This is it. They're going to win the appeal. And the appeal that they wrote was vicious, bro vicious. So I'm like, wow, I'm not, I'm never getting out, man. I started thinking that. And then I talked to the lawyers and we're like, look, this is going to take some time.

I mean, I had top-notch doors from New York city, bro. The best at this point, I finally had the best, right. This chick, Marissa Tanium and judge Gleason, John Gleason. And they're like, look, this is going to take some time. You know, hopefully it's going to work out. You know, remain calm. I know it's not easy.

And then like three weeks later, dude, I get this email at like five o'clock at night. And I got like two minutes left remaining on the core links and it says, great news and do it. I couldn't even register it. It says great news. And I try to pull it up and I'm fumbling with the keys, my fingers aren't working, then I, and I'm reading.

It says, Hey, great news. You know, we just won your appeal today. Zoom computer goes off. There's only got a 30 minute time limit. I was already on there typing and writing people and everything was cool. And then that happened to pop up when I clicked off that last email and I'm like, damn great news. So I call home right away.

And one of the people that were helping me, she worked at the federal public defender's office in, uh, I'm like, Hey, what's going on? She's like, you won, you won, you won. You're getting out, you're getting out. And I'm like, oh shit. And then I ended up getting out, man, like the next day. I

think it was. Yeah, but like, I mean, before you finally set foot on the outside, where you tripping like a walkie talkie, call's going to come in any second.

Fuck it all up.

Yeah, I was, I was scared, but I knew the law, bro. I felt like this was it though. I did. I think I felt like this is it. But when they opened the gate, you can, all the dudes can see you when you're leaving right there. Right. I told them dudes, I said, bro, as soon as I get out of the gate, I'm gonna start running, bro.

I'm a jokester. I joke and play all the time. Right. Then you gotta laugh to keep from crying. Right? Yup. So when they opened the gate, I had like, I was going to run and I didn't, but the was, were all up there together. But even when you get out there, I got to the car and said, man, go, go. Because they tried to like say, Hey, we made a mistake.

You got to come. I wasn't coming back. I'd imagine

that it was probably tough on your family too. Seeing you almost get to

them. And

then have you been taken back inside? Did you talk to your family about what they went through with that?

Yeah, man, my mom's old bro and she's in bad health, but my mom, my mom's the love of my life, bro.

You know what I mean? My father was, my father was a junky dude, died getting high. So really all we had was mom, you know what. And, uh, yeah, my mom was devastated, bro. She was probably cried every day for, she cried many years, but she probably cried every day for three weeks till the day I got out. And in her mind, she's like, wow.

You know, she feels like I want him to get out before I die, you know? And she wanted me to have kids before, you know, she's passed away. Now, all that stuff came to fruitation, but I take care of my mom. So I go over there every week. I take care of her financially. I do everything for bro everything. How do you call me yesterday?

I need help moving the dog food. I'll be there in an hour.

How did it feel for you to see your mom finally see the long awaited grandchildren.

Oh man, that was, uh, that was good, man. That was probably one of the best feelings of my life that she seen that. And there were boys, you know what I mean?

Identical boys. Yeah, man. And my sister has only daughter. She has three daughters, so it was great, man. It was great for that to go that way, man.

And, um, and I think, you know, as we we've talked about all the serious issues, we talk about whatever, but you're still a human being and human beings that get stuck in a situation where you have to eat bullshit for like 10, 17 years, whatever it is when you get out, what was the thing you were most excited to eat?

Dude, I wanted a stuffed crust pizza, bro. I've seen it for years from pizza hut,

but dude, I ain't good in prison, dude. One of my homeboys, you know, I had a couple of dollars bro on one of my homeboys worked in the staff kitchen. So I would get shit from street shit all the time, bro. But I wanted a real pizza on me. I wanted a real pizza where the cheese, like, you know, New York pizza for real, I ended up getting a pizza hut, but cause I was thinking.

But I wanted a real New York pizza bro. Right.

And then, um, you, you know, I also read somewhere or maybe I heard somewhere that like, when you first entered the prison system, the fed the food was real good. And then at some point it went to shit. So exactly what happened there.

Uh, dude, the food's absolutely horrible if you're here doing, saying that it's good.

They're out of their minds. Oh, well I was in a place that had a good food administrator. Dude told me that the other day on one of my interviews, I'm like the burgers are made out of pink slime. I don't know if you know what that is. You can't even eat this shit. No more homie. I don't eat, I didn't eat no beef in prison.

I don't eat seafood. So any beef that came out of the kitchen, I would not eat that shit, bro. It was absolutely horrible chickens. Always raw. So,

well, I mean, this has been awesome. We didn't even probably scratch the surface at Chad Mark's

store. Yeah. We got to have him back on. We're really like, we're like your story's incredible brother and he just absolutely.

Uh, blood on the razor wire. Yep. Go damn Amazon. Yep. And get that book yet. A YouTube channel is blood on the razor wire TV. Go check that out. Chad, Chad, Chad, mark. Amazing man. Thank you so much. Good job shorts. Yep. Excellent job

Schwartz Exelon job. So notice though that there wasn't an audio book for blood on the blood, on the razor wire.

Is that coming or do you know how

has that, um, I got a thing with the studio on the 10th, so I'm going to go over there and record it. Nice

right on, right on. All right. Well, man, I got to say it was an honor and yes, we would like you to come back because honestly, I would love to just hear the individual battles that you've done for those hundred plus people that you got out of prison.

I'd like to just hear the legal fucking back and forth and all the shit you've done there.

We'll do it. We'll talk about why he balls are Steve Carell capital was my seller.

Oh, we

need to hear all that real quick. And we won't, we won't go in deep because you know what, we're going to save this for another show, uh, for, uh, Chad marks about the Whitey Bulger.

Okay. But your guy with the money, right? That he stole the money. Steve, what time? What time Steve, what time of the day did he get pulled over by the Beverly Hills? Police

was about 12 o'clock noon.

Okay. So hearing that Chad marks, do you recall what YT Bolger's, um, rules were about not getting pulled over by the police?

He said you'd never go. At night, you do everything there on the day. He said at night, the cops were out looking for you to go through a stop sign, not come to a complete stop, run a red light, not put on your signal. He said anything like that. That's how you stay away, man. That's how you stay away from the cops.

You come out during the day, you stay your ass inside at night. You never leave at night. Yeah.

Uh, RX. So we're going to leave it there as a teaser. We're going to go into those stories more and more as we go on the future chair marked man blood on the radio.

Fantastic. Thank you brother. Thank you for coming on.

Thank you, Chad. And like we do about this time from the hard luck show. Adios.

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