115 From Addiction to Christian Minimalism with Becca Ehrlich

The Savvy Sauce

*DISCLAIMER* There is some thematic material and we do not recommend listening in the presence of little ears.

115. From Addiction to Christian Minimalism with Becca Ehrlich

**Transcription Below**

Luke 12:34 (NIV) “For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

Becca Ehrlich is an ordained pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) and a doctoral student with a focus on Christian Spirituality. Becca strives to be a Christian minimalist in a consumer society. She has gotten rid of 60% of her personal possessions in six months, taken part in a year-long shopping fast, and moved from a 3,000 square foot suburban home to a 1,700 square foot urban home. She is constantly asking herself what matters most, and how simplifying will help her to live the abundant life Jesus has called his followers to live (John 10:10). Becca lives in Philadelphia, PA with her husband Will.

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Natural Church Development: A Guide to Eight Essential Qualities of Healthy Churches by Christian A. Schwartz

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

**Transcription**

[00:00:00]

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

[00:00:18]

Laura Dugger: Today's episode includes some thematic material. I want you to be aware before you listen in the presence of little ears.

Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,600 apartment units available in central Illinois. Visit them today at MidwestShelters.com or visit them on Facebook.

Becca Ehrlich is incredibly kind and gracious. We've never met before in person, but I discovered some of her intriguing articles on Christian Minimalism so I reached out to interview her. Her story has grief and triumph woven throughout, and I'm eager for you to listen in.

One thing I love about The Savvy Sauce is how this is a safe space to hear from others whose background or denomination is different from my own, and maybe you differ from both of us. [00:01:19] Regardless, it's my desire we can all agree on the saving power of Jesus Christ and grow a little closer to Him through each conversation. And that's my hope for today.

Here's our chat.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Becca.

Becca Ehrlich: Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be here.

Laura Dugger: Well, we're going to just start by going back a little bit into your past. Will you share how you came to know Jesus?

Becca Ehrlich: That's a fun story. I actually grew up in an interfaith household. My dad is Jewish and my mom is Roman Catholic, but we didn't really go to church growing up. When I was in high school, one of my close friends was singing in the contemporary choir at worship and invited me to come along and sing because she knew I enjoyed singing.

So I started doing that, and then I was the one who dragged my mom to church, and then she dragged my brother, so she had someone to sit in the pew with her while I was singing. So it was more of a, "Oh, this is a thing." [00:02:20]

So I basically found Jesus through music. Then I had other friends who were more involved in their faith, and they invited me to their youth group. It was definitely a high school thing where I really started to own my faith and really worked on my relationship with Jesus.

Laura Dugger: That is awesome. So it was kind of a young start, and you introduced others to it along the way. What has your journey looked like since that point of being in high school and being a new believer?

Becca Ehrlich: The thing that I thought God put on my heart was to be the head of youth ministry for a diocese, which is like the regional area for the Catholic Church. And so I pursued a master's degree in theology at a Catholic university, thinking that that was the path I was going to be on, but God had other plans.

I ended up going to seminary and becoming a Lutheran pastor, which is hilarious because if someone had gone back to my high school self and told me that I would be a Lutheran pastor, I would have said they were nuts. But here I am. [00:03:21]

My husband also came to faith late in life. He was not Christian when we met, and I invited him to the Alpha Course, which is kind of an introduction to the Christian faith that comes out of England, actually. And he came to faith, and that was awesome. So I got to be there for his baptism. So it's been definitely an interesting journey for both of us in our faith lives.

Laura Dugger: Wow. And now you two have been married for how long?

Becca Ehrlich: Over eight years.

Laura Dugger: Over eight years. And what has that season looked like? Was that what you expected?

Becca Ehrlich: Ha! No. I mean, no one expects marriage to be all hugs and puppies and rainbows, but we have had our share of ups and downs as far as what life has thrown at us.

Our infant son, Gideon, died at birth in 2014. And then a few months after that, I got really sick, and we couldn't figure out what was wrong with us. We kept going to doctor to doctor to doctor, and no one could figure it out. [00:04:22]

Then I got diagnosed with one thing and had surgery, and then I got diagnosed with something else, and then finally we figured out that I have a chronic illness called mass cell activation syndrome, which is just a fancy way of saying my immune system is overreactive. So I react to things bodily that normal people shouldn't react to. It took years and years until I finally got diagnosed. And so we struggled through that.

Both Will's parents have died since we've gotten married as well. His father just died in April. So I think we've had more than enough of our share of struggles and trials and tribulations, but we know that Jesus is with us through it because Jesus knew suffering as well.

Laura Dugger: Yes, He did. But I think just to honor a few of those experiences, just going back, Will's father passing, that means that happened in the midst of quarantine and COVID. And so I'm assuming that did not look like the grieving process that we typically expect in America. [00:05:28]

Becca Ehrlich: No, not at all. That was the hardest part. He fell down the stairs and was taken to the hospital, and we were not allowed to go see him because of the pandemic. And so that was a struggle. When he started turning towards death, we had to say goodbye to him via phone, which is not what anyone wishes to do.

The worst part was we were trying to get him to hospice, and they wouldn't let him go into hospice until there was a negative COVID-19 test, but they had misplaced the test and it was delayed. And so he actually died before we got the negative test results back. So if he had been in hospice, we would have been able to see him. So that was a real struggle.

We haven't been able to have a funeral service, so we haven't had that religious ritual closure in a way that we wish we had. His dad is actually a big deal in the biology world, and so a lot of his colleagues around the world, and...

He studies spiders, so he has spider groupies. [00:06:28] All of them want to be able to grieve and have closure too, and we're not able to give anyone that in the same way that we would like. A social media post is not the same as having an actual service that we can livestream for people. So we're hoping to do that as soon as it's safe to.

Laura Dugger: Yes. I can't imagine what that feels like for you, because that feels like it sucks the breath away for me just to hear this. And just kind of processing grief upon grief, are you willing to share a little bit more about Gideon?

Becca Ehrlich: Sure, yeah, I can do that. My husband and I decided that we wanted to start trying to have kids, and it happened pretty quickly, and we were really excited about it. I had full pregnancy, no problems really. It was kind of a picture-perfect pregnancy.

Then I was overdue. Typically when that happens is they kind of let you go for a little bit, and then they're like, Okay, if you don't go into labor naturally by this time, we're going to have to induce it. [00:07:36] I didn't want to induce it. I have friends that have been induced and did not have good experiences with that.

So we did all the old wives' tales things to try to get things jump-started. My water broke, and we went to the hospital, and they were very full at the time, and so I wasn't even in the right wing. They just kind of put me in a separate room that they put a monitor in and just kind of left me there until I was farther along.

Suddenly the monitor started freaking out, and it looked like the heart rate of our son was going down low and then kind of going back up and being normal again. There was no one around because they just kind of put me in a room and were like, Eh, when you're farther along, let us know.

So my husband, Will, had to run out into the hallway and kind of yell for a nurse. At first, they thought it was an issue with the heart rate monitor. So they had me turn over and go in different positions, and at the whole time it just felt like they were kind of moving underwater. [00:08:36] Like everything felt really slow and I was like, "Okay, if my baby's in trouble, we've got to do something now."

Finally, they were like, "Oh, we don't think it's the monitor. We're going to have to go do an emergency C-section, and we don't even have time to just... we're going to have to put you under. Like we don't have time to deal with it the way we normally would." That was really scary.

And so I kissed my husband and went to the OR. The next thing I remember I woke up — my parents had come down — and I saw my mom and I said, "Is the baby okay?" And she shook her head no. For me, it wasn't... I mean it was clearly traumatic. But, I mean, my husband watched as they pulled out our child and tried to resuscitate him, and he never took a breath.

No one knows to this day what happened. It could be related to my chronic illness. People who have my disorder tend to have a more frequent level of stillbirth or miscarriage. But we don't know. No one knows what happened. [00:09:37]

So, yeah, that's how we lost our son. It was rough. We had a full nursery set up to bring the baby back to, and we had no baby to bring to the nursery. So that was really hard.

Laura Dugger: Wow. Becca, I'm completely speechless. I did not know any part of this story. How did you and Will start to take those first steps of grieving this and processing this shocking loss?

Becca Ehrlich: It was really hard. I think what was really helpful in a lot of ways was that my family was there, and then I had other family members and friends that came in, and we had a funeral service the next week. Which, by the way, if you just were a week out from having a C-section, walking into a funeral for your baby is even harder because you can barely stand up because C-sections are rough.

But having people surround us with love. I mean, we were getting cards and emails and messages from people we've never met before. [00:10:40] Just people heard what had happened and either had experience with miscarriage or stillbirth and were there to support us. And so I think that was really what helped us the most. Also, Jesus. I don't know what we would have done if we didn't have our faith, for sure.

The one thing I will say is that when we were very open about what happened to us, we blogged about it, we posted on social media, and people were coming out of the woodwork who we'd known for years and saying, Yeah, I had a miscarriage, or yeah, I had a stillbirth, or yeah, I've been trying to get pregnant for years and it hasn't happened.

And these are people we've known that just had never talked about it. So I think a lot of times those types of things, things relating around pregnancy and child loss, we're trained not to talk about. I think we've learned to model being open and honest about the loss of our son.

Like when people ask me if I have any kids, which is a pretty standard thing people ask you, right, when you're in your 20s or 30s, I never say no, because I feel like that would be doing a disservice to my son's memory, but also training people to be okay with having these conversations. [00:11:56]

So if someone asks me if I have children, I say, yes, but not alive. And then usually they're like, "Oh, I'm so sorry." I'm like, "No, don't be sorry. It's part of my story. It's okay." And then that usually opens up a conversation about child loss in a way that wouldn't necessarily happen before.

Laura Dugger: Wow. You have been gifted with so many of these gifts of communication, and it sounds like transparency and authenticity, and joy. It's just unexpected to hear the joy coming out when you hear more of that story. So thank you for courageously sharing that and teaching us how to talk about this more openly.

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah, thank you. And I think people are always like, "I don't know how you get through it, how you're so joyful." And I'm like, "Well, joy is not contingent on what's happening to us. It's a deeper thing. And I only have joy because of Jesus. I wouldn't have joy if it wasn't for Jesus." [00:12:55]

I mean, there's so many things in life to be joyful for, and I still grieve my son periodically. You know, grief is not a one-time thing. It's a process. And so it's a both-and.

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Laura Dugger: So Becca, how did your journey lead you to eventually learn about Christian Minimalism?

Becca Ehrlich: Actually, my chronic illness is the reason I found out about Christian Minimalism. I was having a bad health day and I was sitting on my couch not feeling good. I was sort of just paging around on Netflix. And you know how Netflix says things you might like and makes suggestions for you.

I watched a decent amount of documentaries. And one of the documentaries that popped up that day was the Minimalism documentary by The Minimalists. And I was like, "I don't know what this is, but it's an hour and 15 minutes. So we'll give it a shot." And it changed my life. [00:14:57]

Like no one thinks that they're going to be going around on Netflix one day and having their life changed. I know I didn't, but I heard God speaking to me through it, basically. And I knew that this was something that God was calling me to.

My husband got home and I was like, "Will, Will, you've got to watch this." And he was really not excited at all. Because he was like, "Oh, it means we're going to have to change things, aren't we?" I was like, "Yes, yes, it does." But he watched it too, and we both came to the same conclusion that God was calling us to live a more minimalist life.

And because of my chronic illness, I kind of filled that void with online shopping. I had become addicted to online shopping in the years before that and so I had really bad habits around using my God-given resources. And I knew that needed to change, but I didn't know how. This sort of jump-started that for me.

And so not only did we start living a more minimalist lifestyle, but I also did a year-long shopping fast in 2018. [00:15:56] I spent a whole year of not buying things unless it was on an approved list, like food and medication and toiletries.

Laura Dugger: Yes. And how did you identify that you did have a shopping addiction?

Becca Ehrlich: It's funny because you think addiction and you think substance abuse. Of course, that's a huge part of what addiction is for a lot of people. And so I don't use that word lightly. But we don't talk about shopping addictions much, especially online shopping addictions, because you get a rush when you click to buy. You get a rush when you get it in the mail. And then a few days later, that rush is gone and you have to go find it again. And so it's the same cycle for all types of addiction.

Laura Dugger: So if somebody maybe is listening today and they weren't even aware, but now they're kind of feeling this pricking that maybe this is a struggle they have too, do you have any advice for how they might identify if this is an addiction? [00:16:57]

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah. Well, one of the things is if you keep feeling like it's something you need to do. That was for me like I knew I shouldn't have kept doing it, but I felt like I had to because I had those addiction qualities to it.

If you think you are dealing with a shopping addiction or online shopping addiction, I would suggest doing a shopping fast of some sort to try to at least jumpstart you realizing that that's not something you need to keep doing. You don't have to do a full year. That's kind of extreme. I just did it because I decided I wanted to. But a few months of a shopping fast.

And have accountability. That was the big thing for me. Honestly, that's how I started my blog was public accountability so that I didn't fall back onto the bad habits that I had been doing before.

You don't have to start a blog to do that. You can just have a spouse or a friend or another loved one be your accountability partner. But find ways to make sure that that's not happening.

Delete all those emails you get from stores. [00:17:58] Oh, my gosh. I must have deleted like 100 and unsubscribed to 100 different lists. It was crazy.

And don't go browsing on on websites either. That was a thing for me. "Oh, I'm just window shopping." Okay, well, maybe you won't be later. So finding ways to break those habits is really important.

Laura Dugger: Because for you, with your experience, was it meeting or at least appearing to meet certain emotional needs? Or what do you think was the driving force?

Becca Ehrlich: For me, I think it was... having a chronic illness is rough, especially when it was undiagnosed. At the time, we really had no idea what was wrong with me. And so I felt kind of hopeless about it. So I got that rush of dopamine every time I went and hit that button to buy. And then when I got it in the mail... and it wasn't ever things I really needed. It was just stuff that I thought I liked. [00:18:58] Then that wears off after a while and then you have to go find the next thing.

So for me, I guess it was a literal biological need in some fashion because I was not feeling great and I was trying to make myself feel better.

Laura Dugger: That is fascinating. And I wonder, especially coming through this COVID season, if a lot of people are resonating that that was still something that was available and maybe experiencing more sadness than usual or isolation or loneliness.

Becca Ehrlich: Oh, for sure. I'll bet a lot of people kind of got into habits of online shopping during this. It's easy to do

Laura Dugger: So I appreciate you sharing that story because it sounds like God then started using minimalism to call you into even a deeper level of intimacy with Himself. So could you define minimalism and then share how your identity as a Christ follower differentiates it from mainstream minimalism? [00:19:57]

Becca Ehrlich: Sure. It's so funny to hear you say mainstream minimalism because like minimalism itself is not mainstream yet. Although I'd love to see it that way. But I think you're right. I think there's a general minimalism and then like niche minimalism.

So for me, I usually define minimalism as a focus on the aspects of life that matter most and intentionally removing everything else. So it's not the decluttering movement, really, although that's kind of part of it.

Decluttering is usually focused on material objects and stuff and just getting rid of it. But this actually gets to the core of how and why. It's about a whole lifestyle of focusing on the most important things and living intentionally.

Christian minimalism is a Jesus-centered or Jesus-oriented version of minimalism. So it starts with Jesus at the center and then the rest of the aspects of life that matter most fall around that. So if you're thinking of like concentric circles, like Jesus is at the center. Then what's most important is kind of around that as a circle and you use Jesus as a starting point. [00:21:00]

For me, Christian minimalism is very biblically based. Sixteen of the 38 parables Jesus told are about money and possessions. And in the Gospels, one out of every ten verses has to do with money. So it's clearly stuff that matters. Obviously, Christian minimalism is more than just stuff and money. But if you even just start in that little part of minimalism, it's a huge deal in the Bible.

Laura Dugger: And so if you are using that example of the concentric circles, could you give us examples of what that looks like in your life and what some of those focuses are for parts of life that matter most to you and Will?

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah. I'm so glad you asked that. One of the things I've done over time as I've written about this and talked about this and thought a lot about it and prayed a lot about it is kind of figuring out what are those aspects of life that matter most for Christian minimalists. And I came up with six.

For me, and I think these are across the board, culturally, geographically, and the six are fellowship, self-care, stewardship, spiritual growth, vocation, and service. [00:22:06] So those are things that matter most for everyone, pretty much, right?

Like relationships, fellowship, that's something that we all know matters. Self-care: taking care of ourselves. Stewardship: using God's resources wisely. Spiritual growth: continuing our relationship with God and cultivating that. Vocation: doing what God is calling us to do. And service: you know, serving others.

Laura Dugger: That's incredible. I just want to pause there. You said it was through a lot of prayer and reading and reflection. Are there any specific parts of Scripture that really stand out for how you came to those six?

Becca Ehrlich: Definitely the one that I've been most focusing on lately is John 10:10. Jesus said that He came that we could have life and have it abundantly. Abundance is an interesting word. Because what we think of as abundance in society is not what Jesus thinks of as abundance. [00:23:06]

Society believes that we should get more stuff and have bigger houses and better cars and keep amassing wealth and become famous and successful and all these things. But Jesus' view of abundance is, you know, spiritual abundance and abundance with those around us and serving others in Jesus's name. It's not about those things at all.

Laura Dugger: What are some of the surprising ways that Jesus has led you into an abundant life through the means or the vehicle of minimalism?

Becca Ehrlich: The crazy part is that in the time I used to surf the internet looking for internet buys, back when I was really, really addicted... I'm still an addict, right? You're always an addict. But when I was really in the throes of that addiction, I was doing those things that I knew I wasn't called to.

I was spending my time and energy and resources on things that God wasn't calling me to use them on. [00:24:09] And now I feel like that's much more in alignment with how God is calling me to use my resources. In the time I spent doing the online shopping stuff, I'm actually getting my doctoral degree, which is nuts.

Laura Dugger: Wow, that is such a different trade-off than what that leads to in the end with that investment of time shopping versus the investment of time studying and earning your degree.

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah. I was spending my time and energy and resources on these things that didn't matter. And now I'm actually going to get my doctorate. It's not comparable. It's obviously one is more valuable than the other and one God is calling me to and the other one God wasn't. So minimalism has really changed my life and helped me to align myself more with what God wants for me.

Laura Dugger: Okay, so let's bring it down then to more of a practical level. Are there any steps that we can take toward embracing more of the abundant life today through minimalism? [00:25:13]

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah. This is the one question that I tell Christian minimalists to ask themselves constantly. Is this possession, time commitment, or activity adding value to my life and the lives of others in Jesus's name?

Laura Dugger: That is such a good question. Do you have any other filters that you recommend running it through or any other resources that can help us further understand some of these concepts?

Becca Ehrlich: One of the big things, at least I found in churchy people, is that we're really bad at saying no. We're really good at saying yes to things. But unfortunately, when we say yes to all the things, we're not being intentional about how we're using our spiritual gifts that are given to us by God and helping match what matters most to us and using our time and resources, and energy on those things. And that leads to burnout usually.

So learning to say no to things that don't align with what matters most to you and where your spiritual gifts lie and saying yes to those things that only align with what's most important and your spiritual gifts. [00:26:16]

Laura Dugger: Hey there, have you taken any specific action after listening to any of these episodes? Did you purchase a resource that set you on a better path in your life or try out any of the suggestions for your relationships that our guests have recommended?

If so, we want to see and hear about it. Please tag us on Instagram or Facebook so we can see your practical application. It's so encouraging to be in this together. You can find us on social media @TheSavvySauce.

Lauren, our social media lead, pours a ton of work into creating and managing that platform. And we look forward to continuing the conversation with you there.

If someone doesn't yet know what their spiritual gift is, how do you recommend they begin to learn that and then hopefully use that gift for others in God's glory?

Becca Ehrlich: I'm so glad you asked that. There are so many spiritual gifts assessments out there online and otherwise. [00:27:18] So if your church is part of a certain denomination, I encourage you to go to your denominational website and look to see if there's a spiritual gifts assessment through your denomination.

If your church isn't in a denomination, that's cool, too. Just search spiritual gifts assessment online and you'll come up with, I'm sure, a billion. But each spiritual gifts assessment is kind of its own thing. It tests for different spiritual gifts depending on who the author is and how they're interpreting the Bible.

The one that I encourage people to use if you're really into it and really don't mind spending time getting into this, is Christian Schwartz's Three Colors of Ministry. It's part of the Natural Church Development books. It tests for 30 different spiritual gifts. It's 180 questions and it has a normalization chart and two polls that you give to other people as well. It's pretty intense, but it's super cool. And it's the most in-depth one I've found.

Laura Dugger: Wonderful. Yes, it's great to have a place to get started if somebody wants to study further. [00:28:21] Could you just give a really general overview and mention a few of the gifts and what that might look like to use them?

Becca Ehrlich: Sure. One of the gifts that gets overlooked a lot is the gift of administration, which sounds super boring. But we need people who are able to organize things and categorize things and make lists and make sure that things get done. Because if you're not one of those people that has that gift, you appreciate those people for sure. So that's a gift that I possess and that I used to kind of downplay, but now I'm realizing that it's actually pretty valuable.

Some other gifts that people would have is the gift of service. Everyone is called to serve God, of course, but people of the gift of service specifically have the gift of doing those behind-the-scenes things that really need to get done that people sometimes don't notice. You'll know if you have that spiritual gift if you do something and things run more smoothly because of it, but no one noticed. [00:29:22] Like stacking chairs after a church event.

So one of the reasons I really love the spiritual gifts assessment with Three Colors of Ministry is because they test for some spiritual gifts that some flavors of Christianity don't talk about as much. Some people say the supernatural gifts, but they're all supernatural because they come from God.

The gift of prophecy, for example, which sounds scary, but it's really not. It just means that if you have the gift of prophecy, you hear a message from God that's supposed to be for somebody and you relay that message to that person. So that's a cool gift. A lot more people have that gift than I think give themselves credit for.

Usually, you'll know if you have that gift if you're praying and you get a sense of something for someone. It can be a word or a phrase or a picture or a feeling, and you convey that to that person and they're like, Oh my gosh, that's exactly what I needed to hear today. That's usually what the gift of prophecy kind of feels like. [00:30:21]

Laura Dugger: That's incredible. So as we're talking about prophecy, I've been studying in 1 Corinthians recently, and the Amplified version kind of unpacks more than what we just think of originally when we hear prophecy. We might just think of foretelling the future. But it also describes it as speaking a new message from God to the people.

So I love that example of what you gave. I even wonder — this is just my speculation — that it may not always be a one-to-one communication, but maybe it is something that you feel led from the Lord and you've shared on your blog before, and it reaches people because the Holy Spirit can work in whatever way the Spirit wants to move.

Becca Ehrlich: Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Prophecy is not limited to just one-to-one, for sure. It can be online, it can be in groups of people, all that stuff.

Laura Dugger: That's so encouraging. And I think just to wrap that idea up, what I'm learning currently is to eagerly desire the gift of prophecy so that it leads us into a more excellent way, which is the way of love. Because that's the part that never fades away, even when prophecies cease to exist. [00:31:35]

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah, amen to that.

Laura Dugger: Becca, how can minimalism give us the gift of time?

Becca Ehrlich: That's one of the things I love talking about, because most people find out when they start living more minimally and they start intentionally getting rid of those things in their lives that aren't helping align them with what God is calling them to do and what matters most. You have a lot more time, and then you get to decide how to use that time, which is kind of cool, right?

And so I've found that I have a lot more time for prayer and for Bible study and just having that time with God than I did before. I have more time for my husband and my loved ones and my friends. I have more time to do studying.

Like I said before, I'm doing a doctoral degree in the time I used to spend shopping online. So I have a lot more time for those things that matter most rather than, I don't know, just sitting mindlessly in front of the TV for hours. [00:32:36] Sitting mindless for a little bit is good if you need to chill, but maybe not all night. And learning to cut myself off sometimes because it's easy to fall down the rabbit hole, especially if you're doing YouTube or Netflix or something.

Finding ways to be like, Okay, now I'm going to go do this thing that is for my spiritual growth, or I'm going to go spend some quality time with my family. It's all about intentionality and living intentionally.

Laura Dugger: We are all about that, about having these practical chats for intentional living. And so it sounds like it looked like for you taking away excessive hours in front of screens. Was it also a process of taking away certain possessions or a part of that decluttering your household?

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah. So that was part of it for me too. A lot of times minimalists start with the stuff because it's an easy thing to start with because it's obvious you have a lot of it and you need to cull it down. And so we kind of started with that. We had so much stuff. It was crazy. [00:33:41]

At the time, we lived in a 1,200-square-foot apartment and there was just stuff shoved in every spot that there could be stuff. And we rented a storage unit outside of town that was, they say, high and tight. So we couldn't even find stuff in there even if we wanted because it was literally floor to ceiling, end to end, shoved with stuff.

And that was because we had moved there from a 3,000-square-foot house. You know, when you have that big a house, you fill it with stuff because that's what's expected. And so, oh my gosh, we had so much stuff.

So we got rid of 60% of our stuff in six months. It was crazy. We donated probably 95% of it and then threw out those things that weren't in a condition to donate.

Laura Dugger: At the end of that six months, what was the feeling like to be rid of all of those earthly possessions?

Becca Ehrlich: Well, first of all, I mean, we were just thrilled to get the time back because I think... I mean, even before we started the minimizing process, I don't think we realize in society how much time we spend taking care of our stuff. [00:34:50] When you buy something, it's not just the cost of the thing, but it's the time and energy you spend taking care of it. And we spend a lot of time doing that.

So we didn't have to do that as much. And we just felt so much lighter and we had so much more time and we weren't constricted on where we could live next because we had so much stuff. Like, where are we gonna put all this stuff? We didn't have to have that conversation anymore because we had so much less than what we had before.

Laura Dugger: And as it relates to Christian minimalism, who are some of your heroes and what have they taught you?

Becca Ehrlich: I truly believe Jesus is a minimalist. When he was on earth, he lived a simple life. He encouraged disciples to live simply as well. He taught against greed and accumulating possessions at the detriment to one's relationship with God. He focused on what was most important. He encourages his followers to do the same. Jesus also reminds us that God is our provider and we don't have to worry and stockpile stuff. [00:35:50]

So for Jesus followers, it makes sense to live a more minimal life because that's really how Jesus lived. I can't top Jesus with any of my other heroes, but I will list the others.

Obviously the minimalists, they're Ryan Nicodemus and Joshua Fields Milburn. They're the reason I discovered minimalism. They blog, they wrote a few books. They made that documentary. They're kind of the face of mainstream minimalism, if you will.

Joshua Backer, who is also a blogger and writer in the minimalism world, he's actually a Christian pastor. And so he will sometimes bring Bible texts into his writing. But he's also very clear that he's not writing for Christians. He's writing from a more broad perspective, but it's kind of cool that he uses Bible references.

Courtney Carver, who is also in the minimalism space and has written books and has a blog. She's famous for her Project 333, where she wore 33 items of clothing for three months. [00:36:53] And so she encourages people to use less clothing in their lives.

The cool part about all three of these groups of folks is that they were all bloggers turned authors. So I knew that that was a thing that could happen. All of them have influenced the way I think about minimalism from a faith perspective and I was encouraged to start that because of them.

Laura Dugger: And then following in their footsteps, you are also a blogger turned author.

Becca Ehrlich: I am. Yeah, it's so crazy to say that.

Laura Dugger: Because at the time of this recording, your book has not been released yet, but you are in the midst of writing your first book. Is that right?

Becca Ehrlich: Yes. The book is called Christian Minimalism: Simple Steps for Abundant Living. It's being published by Church Publishing and it should be released May 2021.

Laura Dugger: Can't wait for that. So excited for you. [00:37:52] Speaking of your blog, though, one of your most popular posts of all time was titled Why Marie Kondo Didn't Work for Me.

Becca Ehrlich: Ah, yes, the Marie Kondo post.

Laura Dugger: So will you just tell us more about your thought process behind this article?

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah, so it's funny. I kind of discovered Marie Kondo before she blew up here in America. A friend had given me her book, The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up. And I was like, "Oh, this is kind of cool."

I tried her method. I got rid of a whole bunch of stuff, but it didn't stick for me. Like I just kept going back to buying stuff. That was sort of like my first brush with decluttering and minimalism and that sort of thing.

And once I started writing about Christian minimalism, I was like, I wonder why that didn't stick. What about that wasn't working for me? And it wasn't until the Netflix show came out that Marie Kondo did that really visually highlighted for me what I felt like didn't necessarily work well in her method. [00:38:57] So I decided to write about it from a Christian faith perspective. And it went semi-viral, which I was not expecting.

And there's some really great things about Marie Kondo, right? Like she shows people that we need to simplify our possessions. And she shows that decluttering and simplifying is work, but it's worth it. Some of her storage methods are so great. Oh my gosh, her folding method for shirts changed my life. And also she's a young woman who's passionate about her work and an expert in her field, which is great. But there's a few things that didn't really work for me.

And I think why it went semi-viral was the first thing I said, which ended up being way more controversial than I thought. And I pointed out in the post that the basis of the KonMari method is in the Shinto religion. Basically what that means is she comes at the decluttering process as someone of the Shinto faith. Basically all I said was if you're a Christian and you're doing her method, you just have to be aware of that and figure out what parts of it work for your Christian faith and what don't because Shintoism is not Christianity. [00:40:02] And that ended up being a whole lot more controversial than I expected.

Laura Dugger: What is some of the pushback that you've received?

Becca Ehrlich: It was really interesting because... I don't know. I do interfaith work all the time. I grew up in an interfaith household. So, for me, it wasn't a big deal to be like, "Hey, just be aware that this thing is based in another religion and just figure out what that means for you as you do it.

A lot of people were upset because they felt like I was saying bad things about the Shinto religion or saying that... I don't know. People felt like I was being judgmental, I think, which was totally not what I was going for and not what I actually said. So it's always interesting what people read... read into what you write, right?

But I don't know. It was way more controversial than I thought it was going to be. Because I thought just saying it was based in the Shinto religion, which was fact, and saying that, okay, if you're a Christian doing this, you need to kind of figure out what that means, wasn't that big a deal. [00:41:05] I don't know.

Laura Dugger: Yeah. I feel like the way that I take that is that you're saying sift through to see which parts are true. Is that right?

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah, exactly. The other things that I said about the KonMari Method, which, of course, people didn't focus quite as much on, was that it inadvertently encourages an emotional attachment to stuff because, you know, her catchphrase is, you hold something and say, does this spark joy?

And so because she's coming from her faith tradition, her Shinto faith, for her, that's a spiritual moment. But in American culture, that's not a religious thing for us. And so it's actually inadvertently teaching us to connect things to emotion.

For me, a lot of times getting rid of the things that don't matter has been shedding that attachment with emotion. Because I'll be like, Oh, my gosh, this book, this book was... I had this book when I was going through this thing in my life. And I'm like, "That's dumb. Like the memory is not in the book. I don't need to keep this book to keep that memory alive." But we all do it. [00:42:08] We all do it.

So I found that the KonMari Method wasn't serving me well because I was trying to get rid of my emotional attachment to stuff, not encourage it.

Then the other thing was that the KonMari Method is a one-and-done process. In her show, she actually says like, you've graduated the KonMari Method. And I'm like, well, that's lovely, but it's not done. Now you have to figure out what your life is going to look like now that you have less stuff.

And that's why I like Christian minimalism, because it's a more all-encompassing way of living. It's a whole lifestyle. It's not just about getting rid of stuff and you're done. It's a gradual but constant process of figuring out what adds value to your life and what matters most and how to keep Jesus at the center, because that's going to look different depending on where you are in your life.

A bachelor is going to probably live as a Christian minimalist differently than someone who's married and has three kids. Right?

Laura Dugger: Yes. Well, I appreciated that post so much. [00:43:09] I had just never heard all of that background behind it. And I know that my experience was, about five years ago, I came across that book and really appreciated it. And it did lead me to get rid of lots of our stuff. Yet there was something deeper.

When I read it, I started praying for Marie Kondo to know Jesus. The scripture that I came across and thought of her was from 2 Timothy 2:20 and 21, where it says, "In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay. Some are for special purposes and some for common use. Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the master, and prepared to do any good work."

I think what you're saying, like contrasting the two, that's been more of my experience with going to the Lord for these ideas and maybe kind of related to Christian minimalism. [00:44:15] But that's one of my end goals is to be useful to Him and prepared to do any good work that He calls me to. So I appreciate your writings, making it more practical and accessible to us in the Christian faith, how we can implement that.

Becca Ehrlich: Yeah, thank you. And I think in a lot of ways, some of the things that I do and what Marie Kondo does are similar because our faith is what drives what we do. And so I think that's pretty cool.

Laura Dugger: Well, I always enjoy hearing people discuss thoughtful ways they are choosing to live counter-culturally. So how do you experience God calling you to a counter-cultural lifestyle of Christian minimalism?

Becca Ehrlich: Just being a Jesus follower in today's world means sometimes being counter-cultural. So that alone. And then Christian minimalism in a lot of ways amplifies that because we live in our consumer culture.

For example, society tells us more is better and Christian minimalists aim to live with less, intentionally consume and focus on what's most important. [00:45:19]

Society tells us we are what we do for our job, but Christian minimalists strive to focus on what God is calling us to do our vocation, rather than basing our identity on our job title or how we make a living.

Being busy is a badge of honor in our society. Resting is just wasted time. For Christian minimalists, intentionally spending Sabbath time and rest and renewal with our loved ones and with God is really important.

And being famous, having power and receiving worldly accolades are things that we're taught to strive for in our consumer society. But Christian minimalists know that fame, power, and worldly praise aren't our goals. We're called to serve rather than be served as Jesus did.

Laura Dugger: You sum that up so well. As you look back, Becca, what has been added to your life as you intentionally chose to subtract the stuff?

Becca Ehrlich: I'm more intentional about how I value material possessions, my money, my time, and my spiritual gifts and how I use them. I'm much more aware of how I use those things. [00:46:20] And I have more time, resources, and energy for what's most important: My spiritual growth, my calling from God, my family, my friends, my self-care. And I'm able to be more generous with my time, energy, and resources.

Laura Dugger: I love that, that it can lead to generosity. We've alluded to this earlier, but what can we expect from your upcoming book that's scheduled to be released in 2021?

Becca Ehrlich: So as the basis for the book is the abundant life that Jesus came for that we hear about in John 10:10 is not the abundant life our consumer society tells us that we should strive for. So it's a more in-depth look at how we can live the abundant life Jesus wants for us with practical tools for focusing on the aspects of life that matter most that we mentioned before: fellowship, self-care, stewardship, spiritual growth, vocation, and service.

There's going to be a read-and-reflect section to use by yourself or with a group of friends or a small group or Bible studies at church. So I'm really excited about it. [00:47:21] I think it's going to be really fun. I can't believe I get to write the book on Christian minimalism, which is pretty cool.

Laura Dugger: That is incredible. I'm just cheering you on in this process. But for now, before the book is released, where can listeners read more about your thoughts online?

Becca Ehrlich: So my blog is Christianminimalism.com. Usually, I try to write about stuff that people can relate to and really put into practice in their own life. So it's not just like a, Oh, that was nice, and then you go about your life. But it's really geared towards thinking about ways that you can live intentionally and, you know, remove those things that aren't helping you focus on God and what matters most.

Laura Dugger: We will definitely add a link to that, both in our show notes and on our Resources tab of our website, TheSavvySauce.com, so it's easily accessible.

We are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for you today, Becca, what is your savvy sauce? [00:48:28]

Becca Ehrlich: So when I go to speak on Christian minimalism at congregations and at events, and I ask people first what they think matters most, the first answer I always get is relationships because we all know instinctively that our relationships with each other are one of the things that's most important in our lives.

And so my savvy sauce is to make it a point to connect with a loved one once a day. That could look like a text or an email or a phone call or a video chat. Just connecting with someone you love once a day.

Laura Dugger: I love it. What an awesome savvy sauce to end on. Becca, you are delightful to spend time with. I'm so excited about your writing and this upcoming project. And I appreciate all that you've shared with us today. You've given us so much to think about. So thank you for being my guest.

Becca Ehrlich: Thank you for inviting me. This was so much fun.

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. [00:49:29] And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:50:28]

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:51:29]

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. [00:52:28]

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.