397. Food: An Underutilized Historical Lens with Mark Kurlansky

unSILOed with Greg LaBlanc

What does the changing value of salt over history tell us about the future of oil? How are the views around milk and dairy products connected to class politics?

Prolific author and journalist Mark Kurlansky has written 39 books with more on the way. His work has ranged from historical nonfiction to children’s literature to deep dives on food like his latest book, The Core of an Onion: Peeling the Rarest Common Food―Featuring More Than 100 Historical Recipes.

Mark and Greg chat about the underestimated historical value of cookbooks, the evolution of dietary habits, and Kurlansky's work on nonviolence.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Episode Quotes:

On the birth of the idea of his book “Salt”

03:03: In my Cod book, I realized the importance of salt because you couldn't have a fishery if you didn't have salt. And my publisher was very interested in me doing something on salt and really pushed me to do it. And I kept saying, "But where's the story?" And then I realized that the story is that there was this ingredient, commodity, mineral, that was of tremendous value that nations would go through…. I mean, they founded colonies, went to war, and went to all these lengths to get this salt, and then salt lost its value. So what was it for? And I believe that is the trajectory of oil.

The role of salt and cheese in the international economy

22:35: You have to think about: Before the Industrial Revolution, if you wanted to have an international economy, what did you trade? Mostly food. And you couldn't trade food unless it was salted. So basically, if you didn't have salt, you didn't have an international economy. And as far as dairy farmers go, your possibility for trade was to make cheese.

Do we need to reprioritize our food?

43:19: The way I think commercial fishing should go, fish aren't going to be cheap. They can't be cheap. Cheap fish is the enemy, because if you're going to tell a fisherman to catch less fish, you better get more money for it, or he's going under. So does that mean that poor people can't eat fish anymore? This is a real question. It's a question about improving agriculture, improving beef and dairy, and everything that you do to improve it ends up making it more expensive.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• Waverley Root
• Jacques Pépin
• Frederick Douglass
• William Lloyd Garrison
• Mario Savio
• E.O. Wilson
• David Dellinger

Guest Profile:

• Professional Website

His Work:

• Cod: A Biography of the Fish that Changed the World
• Salt: A World History
• Milk!: A 10,000-Year Food Fracas
• The Core of an Onion: Peeling the Rarest Common Food―Featuring More Than 100 Historical Recipes
• The Food of a Younger Land: A portrait of American food from the lost WPA files
• Nonviolence: The History of a Dangerous Idea (Modern Library Chronicles)
• 1968: The Year That Rocked the World
• BIG LIES: from Socrates to Social Media
• Birdseye: The Adventures of a Curious Man
• The Basque History of the World: The Story of a Nation
• The Big Oyster: History on the Half Shell
• Salmon: A Fish, the Earth, and the History of Their Common Fate
• Paper: Paging Through History
• The Unreasonable Virtue of Fly Fishing
• The Food of a Younger Land: A portrait of American food from the lost WPA files
• The Last Fish Tale
• Havana: A Subtropical Delirium