ConvertKit: Building a Content Flywheel w/ Nathan Barry

Brands That Podcast

In this episode, we chat with Nathan Barry, creator of the wildly popular email marketing platform ConvertKit and host of “The Art of Newsletters” podcast. One of the many reasons we wanted to talk to Nathan is because he’s been an avid podcaster long before it was popular (circa 2014).

In addition to hosting his own show, Nathan and his team created a network for ConvertKit where they currently run 3 different podcasts. Nathan is also a veteran of the podcast guesting world, appearing on dozens of shows to spread the word about the brand.

Listen in to learn more about how ConvertKit built their network and why, how they think about the ROI of their network, advice for guesting on other shows, and so much more.

Guest-at-a-Glance

• Name: Nathan Barry
• What he does: Nathan is the creator of ConverKit, an email marketing platform powering 250K creators, including Tim Ferriss, Gretchen Rubin, Tim McGraw, and more. He is also the host of the podcast “The Art of Newsletters” where he covers topics like marketing, self-publishing, and building a profitable online business.
• Connect with Nathan: LinkedIn | Twitter | Podcast | Website

Key Takeaways

Podcasts allow you to grow your network, educate customers, and generate ideas.

Nathan podcasts for three reasons. First, he’s able to meet new people through the guests he has on his show, which allows him to grow his network and, in turn, convert some of those guests into customers. Second, he uses his podcast as an educational content machine for his 250,000 customers where he teaches them how to build and grow a business. And finally, podcasts are a great way to generate content ideas. He can refer back to his library of 50+ episodes to analyze how his guests answered a particular question and then write about it in his own newsletter.

Even if your podcast isn’t popular, you can still use it as a powerful content machine.

Measure the success of your podcast doesn’t always go back to download numbers. For ConverKit, they use their podcast network as a powerful machine that feeds into their content ecosystem as a whole. Rather than starting from scratch on a specific topic, they can turn to their collection of episodes to pull insights from to build their next piece of content, be it a newsletter, article, case study, video, etc.

The biggest mistake you can make is launching new shows without growing the ones you already have.

Nathan and his team are really careful about how many shows they add to ConvertKit’s network because too many people make the mistake of launching new podcasts without taking the time to grow the ones they already have. Growing a podcast is a huge challenge that takes a lot of time, dedication, and consistency of output. So think twice before you start a new show if the shows you already have aren’t hitting their growth marks.

If you cut a show due to loss of motivation, you’re dead in the water.

Many projects in the creative world rise and fall based on the motivation of the person behind them, which is a terrible recipe for success. If you’re running a podcast, you’ll likely lose motivation far before you see results, meaning you need to push through and stay consistent before deciding whether to cut a show or not.

ConvertKit uses its podcast network to raise the profiles of the people on the team.

While Nathan believes it’s critical to have an honest assessment of your show’s downloads and subscribers, it is equally important to understand how your show builds brand affinity and helps to create deeper connections with customers. ConvertKit uses its shows to deliberately raise the profiles of the people on the team so customers associate the brand with leading voices in the industry.

When it comes to creating shows, think about how you can build a skyscraper versus a strip mall.

When creating shows for a podcast network you run the risk of growing too big, too fast by expanding horizontally. Meaning, if you take 5 experts from your team and create 5 different shows, now you have 5 separate entities you have to take care of, much like a strip mall. Instead, Nathan suggests you create a Venn diagram to see where their expertise overlaps so you can dedicate your time creating one or two killer shows (a skyscraper) versus a handful of small ones with less of an impact.

Breaking shows into seasons is a great way to better manage your team’s time.

If podcasting isn’t your full-time job (which it likely isn’t for most of us), you’ll benefit from breaking your show up into seasons. Produce a set of episodes in a season, take a break, and then come back and do another season. This gives your team the ability to step back and focus on the other priorities, and it gives you an opportunity to promote new seasons as they come out. On the flip side, seasonal shows don’t necessarily make sense for consistent interview shoes where there’s less continuity between each episode. It’s also important to not break your momentum between seasons by setting deadlines, which then forces you to plan your content better.

Podcast guesting is one of the best ways to grow your own show.

Being a guest on other podcasts allows you to speak to an audience that is already loyal and interested in the topics you cover. It also allows you to insert a more organic CTA where you have the ability to drive listeners to your show versus having to sell them on your product or drive them to a landing page.

If you’re new to podcast guesting, start with smaller shows that don’t feel worth your time.

Rather than going for the big guns, start with shows that don’t really feel “worth your time.” This is where you can refine your message, practice being in front of a microphone, and gain the confidence needed to be interviewed on bigger shows.

Don’t be afraid to ask the host questions.

Think about things you want to learn from the host and work those questions into the conversation. This not only helps you elevate your profile as both a podcaster and a guest, but it makes the episode more interesting for the listener. It also makes it a win-win relationship between you and the host because you’re giving the host air time to talk about their own expertise.

Mentions

• Daily Content Machine
• Notion
• Khe Hy’s Rad Reads
• Marie Poulin Notion Workflow Training
• My First Million
• Indie Hackers