Episode 261 – Unstoppable Spiritual Business Coach with Jon Zieve

Unstoppable Mindset

So what exactly is a “spiritual business coach”? Jon Zieve, our guest this time, will tell us and he will explain the value he provides to his clients. Jon grew up on the outskirts of Chicago and chose, at least at first, to follow in his father’s footsteps and go into business. However, he always had a nagging feeling that business wasn’t what he really wanted to do. Jon will tell us about shadows which are the things that cause us to hide things we don’t wish to address nor handle. After graduating from college with his business degree he began a 34-year career in sales and marketing. It took him a bit of time to really commit his efforts, but once he made the choice to buckle down he became successful and rose to vice presidential positions. Even so, he always felt that business was not what he wanted to do. Finally, after working at the same company for 34 years, he felt physically drained and decided to change his career and life. 10 years ago he began the process of training to become a spiritual business coach. Jon will tell us all about his journey as well as what he offers and provides to clients. Jon will demonstrate in so many ways what he offers and why his work is so important. About the Guest: Jon Zieve is an experienced Spiritual Business Coach who passionately facilitates personal transformation for clients. Prior to becoming a Coach in 2014, Jon spent 34 years in the software industry. He held roles in field Sales, Regional & Area Sales Management, Director of National Accounts and VP roles in Customer Service, Marketing and Sales & Marketing. Jon partner’s with entrepreneurs, sales professionals and executives to break through barriers that create conflict in their performance professionally and in life. Instead of working harder, his clients create a plan that’s motivating, energizing, enjoyable and sustainable. He has extensive training in coaching, stress management and resilience with the Southwest Institute of the Healing Arts and the HeartMath Institute. Jon graduated from the University of Wisconsin-Madison with honors in 1979, majoring in Business Administration with a minor in Health Care Administration. He lives in Cedar Park, TX area with his wife Janet. Together, they have 5 adult children and 7 grandchildren. Ways to connect with Amanda & Vicki: https://www.jonzieve.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonzieve/ https://www.facebook.com/trustyourenergy https://www.mindscanhvp.com/takeMindscan/usr=jonzieve/campaign=825 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hello to you, wherever you happen to be listening or watching us today, on unstoppable mindset. Glad you're with us. I am your host. Mike hingson, our guest today is Jon Zieve, who is a spiritual coach. He's very passionate about helping people transform what they do and who they are, I guess, somewhat who they are. We're going to talk about that and a lot of other things and and learn a little bit about what the whole concept of being a spiritual transformation coach is is all about. And I think that'll be a lot of fun. So let's get to it. Jon, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. And thank you very much for being here. Jon Zieve ** 02:00 Thank you, Michael. Look forward to it. Michael Hingson ** 02:03 Well, let's start like I love to do. Why don't you tell us about the early John growing up and stuff like that. Jon Zieve ** 02:12 Yeah, early Jon. So I grew up in Highland Park, Illinois, suburb of Chicago, and I was big Cubs fan, I Are you still? I'm still a Cubs fan, okay, Michael Hingson ** 02:25 absolutely. Just checking Texas, Texas, Texas hasn't lured you away. Jon Zieve ** 02:31 It hasn't now, once you, once you're a Cubs fan, you're always a Cubs Yeah, yeah. And so I went to school in Madison, Wisconsin, and I had my my spiritual crisis, then I was kind of following in my father's footsteps, and I I applied to business school, and I really enjoyed my philosophy and psychology courses much better, but I I did well, and then I just, I just dropped out because I I didn't really have a goal that I was motivated for. I didn't have a purpose that I could, I could really get behind once I got straight A's. And so I dropped out. And I, I just was looking for signs, anything. I was meditating. I couldn't. I didn't have any signs. I didn't hear anything, or at least I didn't think I did. And that's the need for a spiritual business coach back then. But then I decided to go back to school, because I didn't, I wasn't making any money, and I had to make money. I didn't want to live at home, so went back to school, got a degree in business, and they had a career, 34 year career, and nice career, but it wasn't it wasn't really my purpose, and I knew it. I always knew it. My heart wasn't truly in it. And I got burned out. I became a workaholic and got burned out. So that led me to coaching, and I've been coaching for 10 years. So Michael Hingson ** 04:05 when you say in college, you had your spiritual crisis, is that, just that you couldn't find a purpose, or what was the crisis? Jon Zieve ** 04:12 The crisis was I was not aware of my motivation that time was to not let my parents down. So their expectations for me, I cared a lot about them. I I didn't want them to to feel disappointed and my own calling, my own desires and my heart, I wasn't listening. I wasn't standing up for that. That was my spiritual crisis. Michael Hingson ** 04:39 So as you progressed, how did your parents handle everything? Jon Zieve ** 04:46 Oh, they were, you know, they were fine. My dad was disappointed and didn't understand my decision. But, you know, I went back to school and I graduated and got a good job and a good career. So, you know, it's never what you think it is. At the time and but at the time it was a crisis. Michael Hingson ** 05:04 Yeah, I can, can appreciate that, and especially now looking back on it exactly, but, but you didn't really disappoint your parents all that much. Jon Zieve ** 05:15 No, I disappointed myself because I didn't stand up for what I knew I wanted. Michael Hingson ** 05:20 But at the time, did you really know that? Jon Zieve ** 05:23 I did not, did not. So you, you, Michael Hingson ** 05:27 you had to learn that, and it clearly took a lot of time and meditation and so on to do that. Well, tell me about your business career a little bit. Well, first of all, you went to college. You got a bachelor's. Or did you go beyond that? No, Jon Zieve ** 05:41 I just got a bachelor's in business, business administration with a minor in marketing, just as Okay, yeah. And you said, tell you about your my career, yeah. So Michael Hingson ** 05:53 tell me a little bit about your career and all that, if you would sure. So I, Jon Zieve ** 05:57 I started out in in sales, and I didn't quite have the confidence, but I I realized that if I stuck with it, I could learn it. And I failed, but I stuck with it, and there was a point where the general manager we were on draw 100% commission and selling computer systems. And back then, it was hardware and software, and I was selling to auto parts stores a whole like inventory system and point of sale and great company. I stayed with the same company for 34 years, but, but I was out of draw, and I didn't sell it to him, thing. And the general manager is nice guy. He said to me, boy, you know, what, if we, if you leave, we're just going to have to find someone just like you. We we think a lot of you, we think you could probably make it if you've just hung in there. And are you willing to go in debt a little more? I already owed the company eight grand. And he said, Well, extend your draw if you're willing to stay in it. Said, Okay, so I I kind of immediately started selling. Kind of I had the bet on myself a little bit, and that's all I needed. Once I started selling, I got confidence and I became a VP of sales. Michael Hingson ** 07:20 What changed when he made that offer to you, what changed and what you did that made you well, Jon Zieve ** 07:29 consciously, I had to consciously choose to do this. Well. Prior to that, I was always wondering, is this what I want? Is it? Am I going to be good at this at that point, once I made that decision, I'm going to make it happen. That's all I needed. Michael Hingson ** 07:46 And so you then really put your heart into it exactly. And having been in sales my adult life, I would say at that point, the customers also sensed that in you, yes, yes. And that added value to you be being successful and becoming successful. Jon Zieve ** 08:11 So very good observation. Michael Hingson ** 08:13 So what did your manager say when you started to sell like, See, I told you so or Jon Zieve ** 08:19 Well, I think the managers at the time, I think they there's a lot, there's some turnover, but eventually they said, Yeah, we knew you had it in you. Yeah, yep. Michael Hingson ** 08:31 So you sold point of sale and other computer technologies and so on, and then rose through the ranks of sales, and you said, you became VP of sales. Jon Zieve ** 08:41 I get I became VP of sales and the VP of Sales and Marketing. And actually, prior to that, I was VP of Customer Service. I got a promotion to go to the company headquarters, and that took me from the Midwest to Austin, Texas. Ah, Michael Hingson ** 08:59 I was going to ask you, what got you to go to Texas? Yeah, it Jon Zieve ** 09:03 was a promotion. Cool. Michael Hingson ** 09:06 So you along the way, did you? Did you work to create a family or anything like that? Do you have a spouse or any of that stuff? Jon Zieve ** 09:18 Yes, I was married for 26 years and two kids, and now I've been married for almost, well, four and a half years. So I got remarried in 2019 and together we have seven grandkids. Michael Hingson ** 09:40 Oh my gosh. Well, and of course, the rule of a grandparent is to spoil the grandchildren Exactly, yeah, to the consternation of the parents, but that's the rule. That's right, it's great. I can say that having had no grandkids, having not had children, my wife and I. Chose not to do that, but we also chose to spoil nieces and nephews because we knew at the end of the day we could just shoot them off to their parents, right, right. Sort of the same thing as almost being a grandparent and all. But Jon Zieve ** 10:15 yeah, it is. It's Michael Hingson ** 10:16 a nice role, yeah, but that's cool that you you've had a number of children, and they've all grown up and and you've, you've done well with that. So as you went through the process, what did you learn that made you better as you progressed through the ranks of different positions. I'm assuming you would say you learn things along the way that helped you and that that made your life better. Jon Zieve ** 10:50 In my career, what did I learn in your career? Michael Hingson ** 10:53 What did you learn about your career and about life? Jon Zieve ** 10:56 Yeah, just to trust, trust my own instincts. Michael Hingson ** 11:00 It's a hard lesson to learn. Sometimes it Jon Zieve ** 11:03 is, it is, it's the most valuable thing we have. It's our intuition. Michael Hingson ** 11:08 I love to talk about Trivial Pursuit, the game, and many times I've mentioned, in one way or another, on unstoppable mindset, that one of the things I've observed being a person likes to play that game is for me, although I've learned to trust more people would be asked a question and they would give an answer, and when it was the wrong answer, they would say and I said it for a while, until I learned to trust my own brain and heart. I knew that wasn't the right answer. The right answer came to me, and I just didn't believe it, so I didn't answer with that answer. And I've just seen that more with Trivial Pursuit almost than any other game that I've ever thing that I've encountered. Jon Zieve ** 11:51 Yeah, that's so true. Why is that? Michael Hingson ** 11:55 Why is it that we don't trust our instincts to is that learned behavior or what? Jon Zieve ** 12:00 Well, you know, I believe the reason for that is when we're about four or five years old. We We believe that to be honest, we will lose a friend. So we believe that we can't be honest or we will lose a friend. So what happens is we we don't build a a momentum of trusting your intuition and sharing it, because we're just afraid that people won't understand us or they might react weird, and therefore we kind of shut down our intuition. That's my experience. Michael Hingson ** 12:47 Well, tell me a little bit more about that. Why is it that we believe that, are we taught that Jon Zieve ** 12:53 it's a universal thing with kids? I've seen videos of kids and experiments with kids, and right around that age of four and five, they they're afraid, but to be honest, so they they lie. That's how they learn how to lie. And it's not really they're they're not lying to others. They're lying to themselves, and that's where the mistrust of our intuition comes from? Michael Hingson ** 13:24 Is it something that so it's something that's kind of, you think innate and ingrained in them. It's not that they're taught that by elders. Jon Zieve ** 13:34 Well, I'm sure they learn. I'm sure they learn from our environment. I think I read somewhere. I can't remember where. I think it might have been Edgar Casey, but the evolution of intuition, you know, 100 years ago or longer, intuition was more valued, especially in indigenous cultures. So I think when we started to, you know, take kids to public schooling, there was no focus on intuition. It was all, you know, the sciences and the and the the other learning, and it took the focus away from that. So I think that's really another big part of it. But I also think we just don't trust being honest about what we're feeling. Which intuition is a feeling, and that starts pretty young. Michael Hingson ** 14:29 Where does intuition come from? Jon Zieve ** 14:32 I don't think there's a right answer. I don't think we can really tell I think it's a spiritual thing. I think it's it's a communication from God. Michael Hingson ** 14:41 That would be my thought, but I thought it was a question that was worth asking, and we don't, but we don't really deal with that today, either, do we? Jon Zieve ** 14:53 Well, depends on the person, right? Michael Hingson ** 14:56 I was thinking, sort of collectively, we still mostly don't. Jon Zieve ** 15:00 Right? You don't that's, that's a big problem. Yeah, we, Michael Hingson ** 15:06 we still don't want to trust our inner feelings, our intuition, and if we can't see it right out in front of us, then it can't really be true. Jon Zieve ** 15:24 That is, I think the collective consciousness, right? How do we change that? Well, I believe it's it's one person at a time, and I think the most important work we can do is to work on our shadow, which is the what blocks us from our brilliance, or our connectivity, our intuition, it's it's the parts of us we don't like. Carl Jung talked a lot about the shadow. He he, he believed that it's the there's a quote here. He said, The best political, social and spiritual work we can do is to withdraw the projection of our own shadow onto others, which is our which is what's happening in the world. You have people that disagree with each other and they blame the other for what's in their shadow. It's all projection. So how do we solve that? I believe we need to. We can't do this alone. We have to have others to support us, to help us with our shadows in a safe environment where it's, it's, it's safe to say, this is what I'm feeling without others taking offense at that, that they think that they cause them to feel that way, because that's never the truth, but working together in a community or a small group of maybe eight to help each other's find the hidden prejudices and biases that we have, and healing those one person in Time Michael Hingson ** 17:20 Tell me a little more about this whole concept of the shadow, if you would. Jon Zieve ** 17:25 Yeah, it's just the part of our ourself we don't like. So typically, as you grow up, we all love our parents, and typically, as a boy, there's something about our dads that we don't like. And if you're a girl, there's something about our moms we don't like, and that's what typically goes into shadow first. It's the aspect of our father. Like in my case, my dad, great man, but I didn't like the fact that he worked so much. He didn't, you know, I wanted more attention. I wanted to play baseball in the backyard with him, but he was always working, and so I didn't like the fact that he was a workaholic. So guess what? I put that in my shadow. And by that you mean, that means I, I, I I didn't want to be that way. So when I grew up and I looked to role models, I looked at my dad and I said I didn't want to be that, but I became him because I put this part in the I tried to hide it. I tried to deny that I was that. And when you do that, you're you're hiding from yourself. And so the the shadow work means that I face the truth that I was like my dad, I looked like him. I mean, I I was like my dad, and by resisting that part of him, I was resisting a part of me, and then if I had been more conscious of that, I would have made different choices and not become a workaholic like my dad. Michael Hingson ** 19:14 So the shadow really kind of hid your ability. Well, maybe not ability, but hid you really analyzing and thinking more about yourself in that regard. Jon Zieve ** 19:28 Yeah, I was in denial that I was a workaholic because I had sworn not to be. And I think a lot of people listening will agree that there is some aspect of their parents that they just swore they weren't going to do that, and then when they realize it, they are that, and that's the best definition of the shadow I can come up with, is we. We desperately don't want to be that so much we become a. Michael Hingson ** 19:58 Yeah, you know, I'm thinking of something sort of a little bit different, but I think it's, it's passing. I want to ask it anyway, a lot of people have alcoholic relatives or friends and they become alcoholics. Is that the same sort of concept is Jon Zieve ** 20:22 exactly the same. Yeah, exactly the same. So let me give you a couple examples. These are, these are easy examples. Projection is when our ego is trying to protect us from feeling a certain way, and we project what's in our unconscious onto others. So in school, everyone is used to the classroom bully, right? There's always a bully somewhere the bully teases other kids for like, being quick to cry, right? Yeah, but that's because he's quick to cry, so he's the one that doesn't like that about himself. That's why he's bullying others, because he's tried to hide that from himself, and he can't acknowledge that. He's quick to cry, so he blames others, and he he's critical of them. That's a great example of how the shadow in the ego, the ego, won't allow him to to know that that's the truth about him, because he's trying to to identify with something, an identity that is inconsistent with crime. Michael Hingson ** 21:50 Is there something in addition to the ego that becomes the contributor to the shadow? I would say, is there something else that's trying to say, know, what you're thinking isn't right, but we just ignore it. Jon Zieve ** 22:08 I'm not sure I understand the question, can you Michael Hingson ** 22:12 okay? So the ego for the bully won't let him acknowledge that it's really his problem that he doesn't want to cry, but he's a quick fire, right? And so he bullies. Is there something else that is trying to help him counteract that? Jon Zieve ** 22:31 Well, the ego is the problem. So whenever we try to protect ourselves, that's when we put stuff in shadow. The counter counteracted is to actually access the shadow, and that's where our power lies. So if, if the bully actually spent time feeling, if he said to his ego, okay, ego, I see you. I hear you. You want to protect me from feeling embarrassed or whatever. I'm not having it. I want you to sit down ego, and I'm going to feel whatever it is I'm really feeling, and I'm going to cry or whatever that embarrassment is, that that he's feeling. If he was to do that, that counteracts and now it doesn't get hidden in the shadow. So kind of the intuition is the antithesis of you will of the ego. Yes, okay, we can trust what we're feeling and not judge it. That's the that that helps fight the ego. Michael Hingson ** 23:38 Got it, and I appreciate it, and I understand it, and you know, we don't listen to ourselves nearly enough collectively. Anyway, I just finished and it will be published later this year, a book about learning to control fear, and it came out of surviving the World Trade Center and recognizing that I wasn't afraid. But it wasn't until 2020, I guess, when the pandemic hit and I started to really think about and talk about this, that I realized I had created a mindset that said, You know what to do if there's an emergency, because I spent the time preparing, not only to know what to do, but I think, also preparing to create a mindset and learning that I had control over how I dealt with things. I might not be able to control the specific thing that was happening, like the World Trade Center attack, but I could, I could control how I dealt with it, and least mentally, even if not totally physically, but I'll say physically too, but mentally, I had the choice of how I wanted to deal with it and my make. Up, and I think I learned it a lot from my parents, was to be more of a teacher and more of a person who had confidence in themselves, not in an egotistical or negative way, but in a self respecting way to say I know what to do, and that works. So we just finished the book, live like a guide dog, stories of a blind man and his dogs, about being brave, overcoming adversity and walking forward in faith, and it will be out later this year, and it's all about controlling fear and recognizing that there's a lot of value in introspection, and if you do that, and you ask yourself the hard questions and are willing to listen to yourself and the answers, you can move forward. Jon Zieve ** 25:51 I love that I'm curious about fear because I, I believe, I read this at a book, and I, I truly believe it's true, the definition of fear. What is your definition of fear? And I'll tell you what, what I know you go ahead. It's the absence of love. Michael Hingson ** 26:13 It could be, I think it's, I don't know that. I would say that fear is totally the absence of love. I think that fear is an emotion and a physical reaction, and I would not ever tell someone that they should be unafraid. You shouldn't have fear. That's not the issue. The issue is that fear can be a very powerful tool that you use to focus and to direct you. It becomes part of your intuition. It becomes part of you in your mind. But it's it's a reactionary thing, and I think for most of us, we don't learn to talk to that reactionary thing and control it. I know Mark Twain and others have have made comments about we're afraid of so many things every single day, and most of them will never come true because we haven't learned to step back or step in, perhaps to our minds and say, Wait a minute, let's really talk about this. And the more of that that we do, the more that we really lean into addressing our mind and talking about this fear that something in us thinks that we have, that may or may not truly be realistic. The more we talk about it, the better our muscle that will help us control it can take effect. But I will never say, Don't be afraid. I'm I will say, you can control fear. Jon Zieve ** 27:56 I like it. Does Michael Hingson ** 27:57 that make sense? Jon Zieve ** 27:57 Yeah, now I agree with what you're saying. I think fear is, is a is a message to us that it's something if we're really afraid of it, there's something there for us. If we can lean into that fear and and feel it fully and let it guide us in a way, it can be a power, as you said, a very powerful tool for us, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 28:21 and we have to take control of it and tell it to guide us, not overwhelm us, or, as I put it, blind us, because that's what usually happens. Because we haven't learned to take any control of fear, but when we do, it helps us be much more powerful within ourselves and probably to others. I keep thinking of things like military SEAL teams, rangers and so on. I think that they, if they were honest, would not say to you, they're not afraid of going into situations, but they've learned to control that fear and harness it and use it in a positive and wise way. Jon Zieve ** 29:07 Completely agree, yep, and Michael Hingson ** 29:11 I think that's what we really need to deal with. Michael Hingson ** 29:14 So I've sounds like a great book. Well, I'm Michael Hingson ** 29:17 looking forward to it coming out, and I'm looking forward to it. It is actually available for pre order, and I think it will be a lot of fun for people to read, you know, and it's going to come out before our political election. And I'm glad about that, because I hope people will read it and maybe start to take to heart that we have to really step back and not just let the fear that a lot of politicians try to promote overwhelm us, that we really need to step back and look at what's real and what's not real. Love it. We'll see. So what made you finally step away from a success? Whole 34 year business career. I mean, clearly you wanted to go on, but you know what? What was the thing that finally made you step away because you've been doing it a long time? Yeah? Jon Zieve ** 30:10 Well, it actually, I couldn't do it anymore, like I, I, I told several people, I just can't like my my whole body was resisting the thought of continuing to do what I knew in my heart wasn't my purpose, and it showed up in terms of my energy level, my stress level. So I just said, I have to follow my my body here, and I need to change course. And I, I knew I would be a good coach, so I became certified, and I opened up a business. Michael Hingson ** 30:56 Tell me about becoming certified, what was involved in that when you and how did all that work for you? Jon Zieve ** 31:03 Well, there was a lot of different certifications I received. I started out with a life coach certification. Then I went to an organization in Northern California called the heart Matt HeartMath Institute, which has been studying the heart for 30 plus years, and then I went through their graduate program, and then I did other certifications In energy work, shamanism. And then eventually I became certified in in what's called the Hartman value profile, which is the assessment I use today as a coach, which I think is fascinating, and it actually leads into your question about, you know, what do we do about this collective consciousness, which is not tuned into our intuition. Well, this assessment was created for that purpose. Can I share that a little story about the guy that created it? Would that be okay? Uh huh. So his name was, was Robert Hartman. Actually, that's not his real name. He, he lived in Nazi Germany, and in the early 30s he he was a judge, actually, and he was trying Nazis before the war, but he became outspoken, and he needed to leave, otherwise he would have been killed. So he left. He escaped, and he he had this, this question, because of his experience there. If evil can organize the way it did in Nazi Germany, how do we organize good? So he created this assessment, and he became a philosophy professor, and he created the science of morality. And he thought, this is the way, this is what the world needs is to have a science of morality to know what's right and wrong and how to make judgments, how to value, what to value, and how to make the right judgments or choices. So that's what that's the assessment we use. And it's fascinating to me. Everybody that takes it, it only takes about 15 to 20 minutes to take, but they get back a very unique assessment that tells you, if you it doesn't compare you to anyone else, which most assessments do. It's not a personality assessment, but what it does is it It compares you to how mathematically, if you were to think about values perfectly, to make the perfect decision, how do you compare to that? And then it shows where you have the opportunity for more awareness. And typically, that lack of awareness is where the shadows reside. So that's what I use, and it's a great way to introduce the need to do shadow work with clients that are interested in that. And I coach business people. I'm not just doing this for anyone. I'm helping business people to get better at whatever it is they're trying to do by being more moral and making better value judgments. Now, Michael Hingson ** 34:49 if I recall one of the things that you provided was a link to the Jon Zieve ** 34:54 to the test. Yeah, I think I did provide that with you. Yes, Michael Hingson ** 34:59 I. Yep, so it's unique because you're not comparing to other people. What makes it unique? Jon Zieve ** 35:05 That's it. It's, it's most assessments are comparing you to others, and they create, you know, like a norm, and they compare you to the norm. This is, this is not that. It's just, it's based on math. This guy was a mathematician, and he studied, he actually created the science of formal axiology. It's called, which is the study of values. And so with that 15 to 20 minutes, you get this 20 page and 18 to 20 page report, and it's got a graph and and I review that with people, it usually takes about 25 to 30 minutes to review it. And then if they're curious about how to optimize their strengths, then you know, they can, we can talk about what coaching would would look like, and then they can try coaching. Michael Hingson ** 36:05 So what do your clients say to you, and what do they think about the whole idea of coaching? Jon Zieve ** 36:13 Yeah, it's a good question. So most of my clients say that what coaching does for them is it they're they don't know what to do about something about their business, and they want, essentially, they want clarity. Because once you get the clarity, then you kind of know what to do. It's easy to take action. So most of my clients, they use it to help them get clarity and and then it's just like it's clockwork. Once they get the clarity, it's really easy, but if not, they're stuck. And then I teach them some tools that they can use to help them with their energy and to communicate better, to first themselves by listening to their inner voice and then with others. Michael Hingson ** 37:06 You know, coaching is something that someone undertakes because they believe that there is something that they need to learn or whatever. But do you think that most people just are still uncomfortable with the idea of going off and seeking coaching because of, again, partly the whole issue of honesty. They don't want to be honest with themselves, but also the whole issue of, I grew up, I know me. I don't need someone else to tell me, Jon Zieve ** 37:38 yeah, there's definitely, there's fear involved, right? That's probably a better way to put it. Yeah, there's fear about, you know, not knowing what the process are they up for? Do they have the time for? There's a bunch of fears, you know, if I pay the money, am I going to get the value out of it? But essentially, if they, if they can be like you said, if they can be honest, and a lot of people don't like to ask for help, yeah, they feel that that's a big, you know, flaw, that's a weakness. It's a weakness. But the truth is, we can't, we can't really fulfill our potential alone. We need people to help us look at, look at any sports team you know, the if you, if you listen to them, the athletes talk about their success, they will inevitably talk about a coach who was honest with them and challenge them to address something that was preventing them from being great. And they all tell the same story. They needed someone that really believed in them, even more so than they believed in them. And with that belief, eventually they can create their own belief in themselves. And then, of course, work on what they need to work on. And that's what a coach does. So who wouldn't want to coach? Michael Hingson ** 39:09 Yeah, and it is, it is something that makes perfect sense, because the whole idea, it seems to me, of a coach is you're seeking, if you're looking at coaches or even talking about it, you're seeking knowledge that you don't think that you possess and and probably, if you could look deep enough, you already do possess it. But if a coach can help bring that out, because they have different ways of doing it. That makes perfect sense too, Jon Zieve ** 39:43 right? You're right about that. They do have, typically, they have all the answers, but in a lot of cases, they don't trust the answers. It goes back to your Trivial Pursuit analogy. I just didn't trust it. So how can we help people? We can help them. Trust these intuitive hits and start to act on it, and then once, it's like me selling, once i i actually committed to, okay, I'm going to prove I can do this. Once I made that change from, I'm not sure, to uncommitted, that's what happens with coaching, because you got to commit money, and that act of commitment makes a huge difference in your results. Michael Hingson ** 40:30 But even more than committing money, although that's a big part of it, because we value money, and we know that if we're committing it, then we need to do something to justify it. But even more than committing money is committing the mindset to seeking it Jon Zieve ** 40:47 right? It's committing to whatever that that goal is, that we're committing to, yeah, if we don't have that commitment, people can tell like you said about me prior to me making that commitment in my sales career, people can feel your energy. They can tell if you're confident. They can tell if you're in this for the long haul, Michael Hingson ** 41:11 right? Yeah, Jon Zieve ** 41:15 yeah. So the same with coaching, once you go from lack of clarity in not fully committed to committed and you know what you're committed to, things get a much easier. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 41:30 once you make the commitment and you really allow yourself to open up and tell that ego to relax, then you're able to really start to move forward, right? So what exactly is a spiritual business coach? I mean, there are a lot of different kinds of coaches. You talked about different certifications, you had a life coach and other kinds of coaches. And so what? What is a spiritual business coach? Jon Zieve ** 41:59 Yeah, so for me, spiritual coach is someone who guides us to uncover the parts of ourselves that prevent us from realizing our full potential and how we want others to treat us. So I'll give you a couple examples. If we're honest and we ask ourselves, do our loved ones, do they pay as much attention to our feelings, or do they engage with us the way we want them to engage us, with us? And some people would answer yes, some people would answer no, and the people that answer, no, a spiritual coach can help them realize how we are actually contributing to that challenge, how we're training people to not pay attention to us. Why? Because here's an example. If I was to ask you, Michael, how do you feel? And you said, Fine, and I knew, because I'm intuitive, I knew you weren't fine, then you're kind of training me to not ask you again, right? So that's what we do when we're not aware of some of these shadows that we have of not being honest with ourselves and others. So a spiritual coach helps you get to the root of that and to work with your shadow, shine light on them, and then integrate them so that you're when the next time somebody asks you how you feel, you say, Well, you know what? I'm feeling, sad or whatever. Yeah. And then guess what? They start asking you more and more, how do you feel? And and you go deeper and deeper. And that's, I think, what everybody wants is they want to have more intimacy in terms of connection with others. But Michael Hingson ** 43:54 it might very well be that somebody really does feel fine too. Jon Zieve ** 43:59 That could be that could very well be, yes, Michael Hingson ** 44:04 yeah, but it's a matter of really knowing how to interpret and understand whether that's really true or not, right? Jon Zieve ** 44:13 Well, we know those of us that are intuitive, we know if people were telling them the truth, right? We can tell just by their body language, by the tone, we can tell, Michael Hingson ** 44:26 yeah. I mean, I can sit here and say, I feel fine, and I do, but I also know that there are a lot of uncertainties in life, and there are challenges and I need to to work on now that my wife has passed, it's just me. So I can feel lonesome and and I will admit that it doesn't stop me from feeling fine about me, but I can feel lonesome and I can feel like it'd be more fun to have other time with people. But I think for me personally, I. I'm pretty good about being honest concerning all of that, and I think that it is kind of what you're saying. Jon Zieve ** 45:08 Yeah, so you know my role is to help people that they scratch their head wondering, why do people react a certain way around me or towards me? Yeah, do some people not talk to you and they don't tell you why? Or do you want to change something in your life, but you have no idea how. That's where a spiritual coach can help. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 45:33 okay, that makes sense. You know, for me, and I think other people who are blind, of course, there's an inherent fear that we've been taught about dealing with someone who has a disability, and we, and we collectively as a society, don't include them a lot of times in the conversation. But I think it's important for us who happen to be blind or who happen to have other typical disabilities, and I'll explain that in a second, but to recognize that we're different, we're okay, but we need to be part of the solution of getting people to understand and learn that we're not any worse or any less than they are. Jon Zieve ** 46:18 Right? I totally agree. We're all equal. Everyone is equal. That's the goal. Well, Michael Hingson ** 46:25 and I said typical disability because, and I've said it here before, I am of the opinion that everyone on this planet has a disability. For most of you, it's light dependence. You don't do well without light Exactly. We've covered up your disability because we've provided so many different ways to have light on demand, it doesn't change the fact that the disability is there. So I've kind of started to work to get people to understand that disability is a characteristic that we all have, and it manifests itself in different ways, and that we shouldn't think less of someone whose way of disability manifests differently than theirs, to think that that person is less than they are Jon Zieve ** 47:09 a great, great way to think about about life and people. Michael Hingson ** 47:14 It is a challenge, however. So you know, we, we, we do have to, you know, to deal with it. How does someone know they need to have a spiritual coach or a spiritual business coach? Jon Zieve ** 47:31 Well, like I was just saying, you know, if you're scratching your head wondering, why, why are people reacting to me the way they are? Why do I get triggered? Another one is, I don't want to just exist. I want to really live fully, and I feel like I'm just existing. Those are, those are good signs of how a spiritual coach can help. They want to change something, but they just don't know how how to get started. Maybe they don't they're not clear on their vision or their purpose. That's how you know. Michael Hingson ** 48:18 Do you make God a part of the spiritual coach journey that people take. Yes, and I ask that because, you know, there, there are a lot of people who talk about God and spiritualness, and they talk about it, but deep down, they don't necessarily really believe it. I went to a church for a number of years with my wife and I and the pastor had a very interesting observation. He said that people in the church would read about spirituality and God and so on, but when it truly intellectually came time to accept it, they just weren't there. And, you know? So I'm wondering how many people knock the idea of it being a spiritual coach. Jon Zieve ** 49:10 Well, it just so happens that the people that I work with are open for that. Ah, you know, I don't, I think that's the way the universe works. I don't feel like I'm in control of who I coach. I feel like there's, there's other divine guidance or intelligence that's orchestrating things. And so I if somebody's not open to that, it's not a good match. Yeah, there, you know, I'm not going to be as valuable to someone if they're not open to, you know how to how they can pray for answers. Or it's not about religion, Yes, correct. It's not, not at all. It's more about a personal relationship with a higher power. And Michael Hingson ** 50:05 I think you said something very interesting. I absolutely agree you should not. You shouldn't be in control of the people you coach. That's a whole different story, but you shouldn't be you. You're a guide, you're a counselor, you're a person to help them, but ultimately they're the ones that have to learn to really, really take control, correct. So when you're when you're dealing with people in business, how does a spiritual coach help and how is what they do? Maybe different than other kinds of coaches. Jon Zieve ** 50:43 Yeah. Well, you can't really separate the individual from the business. So what I find is, when it comes down to, what is your vision for the business, what is your mission, what are your values, that's that's what makes a good business really create the culture that is going to create the success in terms of client satisfaction, in terms of employee satisfaction, retention, it's all about the culture. So it's all about their vision and mission, and that comes from asking for help to receive these messages, what is my vision, what is my mission? And if somebody truly wants that help, they will get it, and then they have to trust it. That's the difficult part of people. Listen and hear it, but they don't Okay. I can't possibly put that in action. How do I do that? That's where I can help them, because I've got several clients that have executed this, that have taken they've proven it works, and they just need that encouragement in even talking to some of my clients about it, the more you trust just being yourself and not trying to be anything but that, and trust your intuition and trust your feelings and your heart that's that's being spiritual, Michael Hingson ** 52:23 yeah, and it's something that we just don't get taught nearly enough, or are often enough to listen. I used to say, Well, I always record my speeches when I travel and speak. And I used to say, I do that because I'm my own worst critic, and I want to listen to them, and if, if, if anybody can find the problems that need to be dealt with. I I am, but I've realized in the last, actually year, year and a half, and just thinking about it, I've been approaching it wrong and saying it wrong. I'm not my own worst critic. I'm my own best teacher, and it's a much more positive and relevant way to look at things, because, in reality, I am my own best teacher. You can't teach me anything in the world. You can offer me information, but I really have to teach myself, and I have to intellectually learn it and accept what you have to say. Jon Zieve ** 53:16 Yep, I agree. So you know, a lot of businesses will will say that their employees are not fully engaged or they're in it for themselves, and I experienced that in my my corporate career. A spiritual coach can help the leader to really get clear with the help of their leadership team of what that vision and mission and purpose is, and then it's up to the employees to decide, are you committed to this? If you're not, then you're probably not the right person for the job. But once they commit, then they're not out for themselves anymore. They're part of this solution, and that's how spiritual coaching can help Michael Hingson ** 54:07 a team, and that's exactly what it is. It's all about the team, and so often we just don't recognize that at all. But we are really all part of a team, and we need to really deal with that and recognize it. I love team building and teamwork. I think that it's the one of the most important things that we all can learn. I when I've written now, this will be my third book. I love to collaborate. I've worked with a second person on every one of the books, and I think it's enhanced it because what I discover is what their strengths are and what my strengths are, and if the two of us need a strength from somewhere else, we'll go find it. But mostly it is that between us, we have to learn how to use our individual strengths to make the team work. Work better. Agree 100% and we can do that. Jon Zieve ** 55:06 Yeah, absolutely the sum is greater than the individual parts. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 55:12 it is. It is absolutely true. And there's no reason that we can't learn to be better people on a team. It is, it is a challenge sometimes and again, it gets back to, are we really willing to look at what the team can offer, or are we going to get back into an ego issue again? Jon Zieve ** 55:35 Right, right. Michael Hingson ** 55:38 And I, for one, just would rather stay away from the egos. Well. So what would you if you had some final things that you'd like to impart to people about all of this and so on? What would you like people to take away today? Jon Zieve ** 55:59 I guess what I'd like people to take away is, if they're curious about how to live life more fully, have more meaning, deeper connections, then encourage your listeners to take the assessment, and invest the 15 to 20 minutes and taking it, and then invest 30 minutes and getting it reviewed, and I'm going to offer that for free. And then just be curious about how they can with a magic wand. What would they do that they don't, they're not doing and see if coaching is for them. Explore it Michael Hingson ** 56:46 Well, I hope people will take advantage of it. I mean, even if you end up being fine, it's still worth exploring and and I personally am of the belief that no matter what we do, we're always learning, and we'll learn something from everything that goes on around us, I agree, so I hope people will take advantage of it. I want to thank you for being here. What is the name of your business? Jon Zieve ** 57:11 The name of I work with pro advisor, coach, and my personal LLC is called John Z coaching. J, O, N, Z, Michael Hingson ** 57:23 i e, v e, Z, i e, v e, coaching com, right? So if people want to reach out to you, best to go to the website. Or how can they do that? Jon Zieve ** 57:33 Yeah, they can. They can go to my website. It has my contact information on there. They can. They can. I have, like a thing where they can text me that they want to take the assessment, and then I'll I'll respond saying, Send me your email, and I'll send you the link to take it Michael Hingson ** 57:52 okay. Now you also, I think, did provide the link so they can go to click on the link as well, click Jon Zieve ** 57:56 right on the link, and then get the assessment. And then I believe I have my calendar link on there to schedule time to review it cool? Michael Hingson ** 58:04 Yeah. Well, great. I hope people will reach out. I think it's absolutely was worth it and is worth it, and I value a lot of the insights that you've given us, and I hope people will will likewise appreciate this and maybe use it as a way to step forward. You offer a lot of great advice and and great knowledge that will help us all. So thank you very much for being here to do that. Jon Zieve ** 58:30 Thanks Michael for having me on and I appreciate what you're doing with your your podcast and the books you're writing and just your story. You're a very inspiring guy. Michael Hingson ** 58:41 Well, thank you. Well, I appreciate all of you listening wherever you are. Would love it if you'd give us a five star rating wherever you're listening or watching us today and YouTube, please give us five star rating. We value that, and we value your input, so please feel free to review us. We would love it. And if you'd like to reach out to me, and I hope you will, I'd love to hear from you. Feel free to do so by email. Michael h [e-mail] that's M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, E.com, or go to our podcast page, www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and Michael hingson is M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S so love to hear from you, though, want your your thoughts, love your reviews, and would really appreciate those five star ratings. By the way, I've mentioned it before. As a speaker, I am always willing to talk with anyone who might want to hire a speaker to come and talk about, in my case, my experiences at the World Trade Center or inclusion and diversity. Talk about leadership, the fact that I've had a multi decade career in sales and have a lot of insights to share. Would love to do that, and always looking for speaking. Opportunities, and we're also looking for podcast guests. So Jon, for you and all of you listening, if you know someone who you think would be a good guest for us, love to hear from you or love to hear from them. So please feel free to refer anyone or introduce us to anyone who might be a good guest. And again, one last time, John, I want to thank you for being here with us and for making this a very enjoyable and I think, very fruitful episode of unstoppable mindset. Jon Zieve ** 1:00:27 Thanks, Michael. Michael Hingson ** 1:00:33 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. 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