Best Great Outdoor Adventure Trips Podcasts (2024)

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#110 Ethan Salvo — Lessons From Climbing The Hardest Climb in Squamish [TWICE?!], Internal Vs External Motivations, and Transcending Grades 1:48:11

27m ago1:48:11

1:48:11

Ethan Salvo is back on the podcast! Ethan's first episode (linked here) was a fan favorite so when Josh visited Squamish for a few days they met up do an impromptu live/in-person recording. Since the last recording, Ethan has climbed arguably the hardest climb in Squamish, The Singularity. The experience he had on it was fascinating and made him qu…

1
YOU Did it Story plus Ultra Lite Backpacking 48:43

1h ago48:43

48:43

Today we learn how why you often have to choose between comfort at night or comfort during the day when it comes to backpacking. YOU DID IT!!! But before we tackle ultra lite backpacking though, Kit chats with Sam about how, because of this podcast, she and her husband are now including adventure on their travels - all because she accidentally foun…

1
#109 Noah & Benn Wheeler — The World’s Hardest Campus Move, Most Difficult Board Climbs, FA’ing V12 On 1st Day Outdoors, and How This Generation Sees The Future 2:11:36

22m ago2:11:36

2:11:36

Noah Wheeler and Benn Wheeler represent the next generation of climbers. At 21 and 19, they are some of the strongest board climbers in the world and their styles reflect that. They also are bring a unique point of view to the world of climbing content with their YouTube channel, Wheel Rock. These brothers have climbed up to V16 outdoors, FA’d up V…

1
#108 AJ [Alex Johnson] — 20 Years At The Top, The Evolution Of Climbing, Coaching Top Athletes, Climbing Drills, and Returning From A Major Injury 1:59:27

7d ago1:59:27

1:59:27

AJ has been competing at the highest level for decades. She has won multiple Bouldering World Cups and she climbs just as hard outdoors with her iconic send of The Swarm (v13/14) in Bishop which was recently featured in Reel Rock. AJ also coaches some of the top up and coming Youth Athletes (one of her athletes recently won Nationals), through her …

1
Bikepacking the Erie Canal Trail 30:03

4h ago30:03

30:03

Bike Pack the Erie Canal from Buffalo to Albany Learn how to bike pack the 360 mile Erie Canal Trail : what you'll see, when to go, how many miles per day, where to sleep, and what gear to take. Learn how to plan your epic multi-day biking adventure and much more. Get insights into general bike packing from an experienced bike packer. COMPLETE SHOW…

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#107 Drew Ruana — Thinking Long Term, Grading The Hardest Blocs, Working Weaknesses, 3 Common Plateaus and How to Get Through Them 2:10:57

19m ago2:10:57

2:10:57

Drew Ruana is one of the strongest boulders in the world. Period. He over a hundred V14+ sends, and lots of then are V16. While some other climbers may have that amount of blocs under their belt, no one has accumulated this many in such a short time. Drew goes into his infamous “Send Colorado” journey, which is his goal to send all V14 and up bould…

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#106 Felipe Camargo — An Unlikely Path To The Top, Finding Mentors, Training Hard By Yourself, Establishing Next Level Routes in Brazil, and Giving Back 1:36:36

5d ago1:36:36

1:36:36

Felipe Camargo is one of the top climbers in our sport with sends up to 9b and V15. That’s impressive… But what’s more impressive is that he began climbing Brazil where there was no professional climbers, no routes past 8b+, and no modern training facilities. Felipe managed to send the iconic 50m 9a+ Papichulo by mainly training on a 3x3m spray wal…

1
Bikepacking and Bike Touring Adventures 24:11

9d ago24:11

24:11

Bikepacking and Bike Touring Adventures Today we discuss bike packing and bike touring (and the difference between the two). We'll cover: The difference between bike packing and bike touring Panniers versus bike bags for carrying your gear What kind of bags you'll need The six main cross country USA bike trails Rails to Trails - over 25,000 miles o…

1
#105 Tim Kang — Going All In, The Most Important Moments for Growth, Embracing What Others Won’t, and The Difference Between Good and Great 2:07:50

12d ago2:07:50

2:07:50

Tim Kang is a frequent guest on the podcast, but now you get to hear him do a more typical interview. Tim is a professional climber and coach that has competed at the World Cup level, won a Psicobloc competition, climbed v14 and 5.14d, but he is best known for his daring sends of the wildest highballs in Bishop which culminated in the popular film …

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#104 Greg Loh — Bouldering Pioneer, World’s Best Spotter, Belief Over Everything, Epic Midnight Lightning Story, Designing The 5.10 Dragons, and What Makes A Climber GREAT 2:20:47

1M ago2:20:47

2:20:47

Greg Loh was one of the strongest boulders in the world during the mid 90’s and early 00’s. He traveled all over the world putting up FA’s of V13+ and climbing with the best. He competed in WC’s, the X-Games, and even won Nationals twice for speed climbing. He is known for being one of the first people who truly embraced bouldering as a discipline …

1
Boat and Bike from Venice to Mantua 8 Day Cycling Adventure 34:20

23d ago34:20

34:20

Boat and Bike from Venice to Mantua 8 Day Cycling Adventure What a fantastic way to explore Venice and the Italian countryside : by bike AND boat! On today's show, we learn about a super fun and affordable way to explore one of Europe's most popular countries, but since we are traveling different that the other tourists, we are usually away from th…

1
#103 T&J — The Opposite Of Flow, Woods and Wheelers, Keeping Your Feet On, and Respect Every Climb[er] 1:58:08

26d ago1:58:08

1:58:08

Entitlement is the opposite of flow and perhaps the most damaging frame to have over the long term in your climbing. This can come from training, previous sends, or comp placement. Hear stories about Daniel Woods and other pro-climbers who have avoided this frame. And hear from Tim Kang and Josh Horsley about how they coach others and themselves to…

1
#102 The Tension Crew — Ultimate Board Climbing Deep Dive, History of Boards, Best Board Practices, Training on Boards, The Future of Boards, and Undeniable Vibes 2:26:24

1M ago2:26:24

2:26:24

We love board climbing. And if you do too, or even if you are just board curious, this episode it for you. The history of boards, board training, board ethics, board best practices, the future of boards. BOARDS!! This was a special in person recording in Colorado with part of the Tension Climbing crew (Will Anglin, Michael Rosato, and Quinn Spadafo…

1
Boat and Bike Provence - Camargue France 37:59

2M ago37:59

37:59

8 Day Boat and Bike Tour of Provence - Carmargue France Today we head to one of the most beautiful and popular regions of France, yet away from the busy crowds in the south of France. We are heading to Provence and the Camargue region, on an 8 day boat and bike tour where we will visit fortresses and Roman ruins, enjoy local wines and cycle past vi…

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#101 Dave Burleson — How To Be A Pro Climber, What Pro’s Actually Earn, The Tension Between Passion And Professionalism, and Contract Negotiation 101 2:31:11

2M ago2:31:11

2:31:11

Dave Burleson is one of the top agents for professional climbers. He's part of Reppa Athlete Managment that represents athletes like Sean Bailey, Nathaniel Coleman, Nina Williams, Jesse Grupper… the list goes on, but all of them have been on the podcast so we put them here first! Before being an agent, Dave worked at the iconic brands Petzl and The…

1
#100 T&J — The Simple Path To Being Great, The Real Role Of Strength, Dealing With Tweaky Moves, Moonboard 2024, Amazing Media Drops, and Skin Farming 2:03:49

2M ago2:03:49

2:03:49

Episode #100!!!! Thank you all for the support. What a journey it’s been. This episode was an absolute banger that encapsulates a lot of the Testpiece message. Tim and Josh break down the ‘Simple’ path that the best climbers follow to being great. And then they detail the appropriate role that strength plays in this path. They also go over the late…

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#71 | Dancing On Top Of The World's Most Iconic Mountain Peaks, The Art of Summit Shuffling, The Intersection of Dance & Mountaineering with Brett Patrontasch aka Summit Shuffler 1:26:42

2M ago1:26:42

1:26:42

On this episode I have SoCal based trekker, climber, peak bagger, mountaineer, and mountain dancer, Brett Patrontasch aka Summit Shuffler, join me on the show. We chat about his first hiking memories, top trails in California, hiking hacks & tips, summit shuffle dancing and climbing iconic peaks such as Mount Whitney & the Matterhorn, how dancing a…

1
#99 Nina Williams — Off Route While Free Soloing, The Ultimate Confidence, Being a Professional on Instagram, and The Medium Is The Message 1:49:54

2M ago1:49:54

1:49:54

Nina Williams pushes the limits in every discipline of climbing there is… comps, bouldering, highball bouldering, big wall, sport climbing, and even free soloing. In this episode she takes us through a harrowing experience she had while free soloing the Casual Route of the Diamond, a multi pitch 5.10. Nina ended up off route during the climb and th…

1
Seasoned Traveler Insights with Mollie of Stay In Good Company 1:06:38

2M ago1:06:38

1:06:38

Seasoned Traveler Insights with Mollie of Stay In Good Company Kit was interviewed by host, Mollie, on the popular travel podcast, Stay In Good Company. In this episode, we share the entire episode, which also features Mollie's other well traveled guest's insights about travel, including slow travel and some of the fun and unusual lodging they've e…

1
#98 T&J — Your Heroes Are Human, 2 Traits The BEST Climbers Have, Honnold Says The Quiet Thing Out Loud, and Tim Tells Josh His Biggest Mistake 1:56:05

2M ago1:56:05

1:56:05

Tim Kang was just in SLC for the World Cup and NACS. He got to watch and session with some of the best climbers in the world. Hear from Tim what his major takeaways were that can help you too. SHOW NOTES: Honnold’s Comments About Competitions and $ Petzl Roc Trip James-Caro Wedding Present Support the Show. Support us on Patreon: HERE Visit our pod…

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#70 | Astonishing Encounters with Pacific Northwest Wildlife, An Unforgettable Stars Wars Themed Group HIke, From Solo Hiking to Outdoor Podcasting, Pacific Northwest Vs. SoCal Scene with Ivan Orozco 2:05:38

2M ago2:05:38

2:05:38

On this episode I have Pacific Northwest based trekker, peak bagger, outdoor adventurer, founder of the Yakima Valley Trekkers, and the voice behind the Hikes And Mics Podcast, Ivan Orozco, join me on the show. We chat about his first hiking memories, the origin story to creating the Hikes and Mics Podcast, top trails in the Pacific Northwest, hiki…

1
#97 Davin Bagdonas — Alpine Fusion, Grizzly Bears, Developing 1000’s of Climbs World Wide, Chasing The Dragon, and The Call To Adventure 2:12:55

2M ago2:12:55

2:12:55

Davin Bagdonas has developed 1000’s of climbs all over the world. Elite climbers, fellow adventurers, and previous podcast guests, like Jimmy Webb, Jamie Emerson, Roman Yalowitz, Eric Jerome call up Davin when they want to go on a wild adventure to try to find the best boulders in the world. Davin takes us on a trip around the world to places fraug…

1
Trek to Everest Base Camp in Nepal : An Adventure For Regular Hikers (who train!) 52:52

3M ago52:52

52:52

Trek to Everest Base Camp in Nepal : An Adventure For Regular Hikers (who train!) Looking for a superb challenge, surrounded by majestic beauty and a unique culture? Consider trekking to Everest Base Camp(EBC)! You hike on the same path as the folks who are attempting to climb Mount Everest, ending at EBC, the last village before their final climb.…

1
#96 T&J — Battling Mid-Send Doubts, Incredibly Hard Sends, New Shoe Tech, Update Your System By Shutting Up, Don’t Talk Sh!t, and Josh Talk’s Sh!t 1:58:25

3M ago1:58:25

1:58:25

You’re midway through a redpoint burn and you’re tired. There’s a bunch of moves to go and you tell yourself that you’re so tired right now there’s no way you’ll ever send. But the truth is, you have no idea how far you will get or if the send is actually right there for the taking. You can’t trust your feelings! Tim and Josh tackle the problem of …

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#69 | SoCal Hometown Heroes - Exclusive Recording from the 4 Year Anniversary Live Podcast Show feat. Karla Amador (52 Hike Challenge), Cris Hazzard (HikingGuy.com), & Anjelica Avella (Film "Forward) 1:26:41

3M ago1:26:41

1:26:41

On this episode, I release the full recording from our second ever live podcast show. It was filmed at the Just Trek Podcast 4 Year Anniversary celebration on Sat, April 6th at the Happier Camper Outdoor Showroom + Happier Cafe here in Los Angeles. The guest panel featured SoCal Hometown Heroes such as Karla Amador (founder of @52hikechallenge), Cr…

1
#95 Palmer Larsen — The Master Coach, Adaptability and Autonomy, Deliberate Practice, Style Then Process, What’s Wrong In Coaching Today, and Olympic 2024 Predictions 2:11:55

3M ago2:11:55

2:11:55

Palmer Larsen is one of the top coaches in the country. This podcast has soooooooooo many helpful tips and frameworks to get you to the next level. DO NOT MISS his description of how to foster an environment for long term success via deliberate practice @ ~1:28! He is the head coach of Momentum Climbing Team, in SLC, one of the top climbing teams i…

1
Costa Rica Camino Long Distance Coast to Coast Hike with Home Stays : Part II 31:46

3M ago31:46

31:46

Guided Costa Rica Camino with Homestays and Daily Luggage Transfer PART II: Join us as we continue our 175 mile/280 km Costa Rica Camino where, over 16 days, you walk from the Caribbean to the Pacific Ocean, across the entire country (indeed the continent and over the continental divide!). You'll experience an array of ecosystems and see wildlife a…

1
#94 T&J — How To Approach EVERY Climb, New Era Of Climbing Media, Double Clutching Outside, New Patreon Offering, Warm-Up Projects, Un-Campusing and Why Trying Hard Isn’t Enough 1:52:11

3M ago1:52:11

1:52:11

What is the best way to approach a climb? It’s a simple question that may be one of the most important things to ask yourself before you pull on each time, but it’s never talked about. Tim Kang, professional climber and coach, shares the fundamental strategy needed to get your best performance each time. Announcement!! $5 Patron’s now have access t…

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#93 Allison Vest — THE STRONGEST FINGERS IN THE WORLD, Hangboarding Deep Dive, Comps Vs Outdoors, LeBron James’ Tip to Send V14, Not Lying to Yourself, Creating FLOAT and Her Secret Training PDF (only ... 2:08:50

4M ago2:08:50

2:08:50

Allison Vest has THE STRONGEST FINGERS IN THE WORLD (according to the internet), and she is finally releasing her secret training plan to us! It’s only $9.99, and the best part is Testpiece listeners get 20% off for a limited time! Get it here NOW! 🥸 Allison shares about what it’s like to climb with the extremely strong fingers and why that’s impor…

1
Costa Rica Camino Long Distance Coast to Coast Hike with Home Stays : Part I 50:59

3M ago50:59

50:59

Guided Costa Rica Camino with Homestays and Daily Luggage Transfer PART I: Join us as we discuss the new 175 mile/280 km Costa Rica Camino where, over 16 days, you walk from the Caribbean to the Pacific Ocean, across the entire country (indeed the continent and over the continental divide!). You'll experience an array of ecosystems and see wildlife…

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#92 T&J — Climbing At Your Limit, Make It Right USAC, Rants Continue, Gym Field Trips, and The Simplest Effective Training Routine 1:48:03

4M ago1:48:03

1:48:03

Tim Kang and Josh Horsley explore how often to have limit sessions. What limit sessions really mean. And what non-limit sessions look like. They also cover the latest news, give important PSAs, Pro-Tips, and of course there is a rant. There’s always at least one rant. SHOW NOTES: GoFundme for Adriene Felipe Hoo Beastmaking Book Support the Show. Su…

1
#91 Jimmy Webb — Adventure and Development, How Climbers Go From Good To Great, Southern Style, World’s Greatest Flasher, The New Generation, and The Hardest Moves In The World 2:23:30

4M ago2:23:30

2:23:30

That's right ladies and gentlemen -- Jimmy Webb! Jimmy is one of the best climbers our sport has ever scene, and one of the humblest and kindest climbers as well. Please enjoy this wide ranging but always fantastic chat with Jimmy Webb. Support the Show. Support us on Patreon: HERE Visit our podcast page: HERE Sign-up with one of our coaches: HERE …

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Patagonia Part II: Hike, Bike and Kayak Argentina and Chile 33:52

4M ago33:52

33:52

Patagonia Part II: Hike, Bike and Kayak Argentina and Chile In this Part II of our Patagonia adventure, we begin at the end of our W-Trek at Lake Grey, where we switch our hiking gear for sea kayaks, and venture out in this beautiful lake to kayak around icebergs and glaciers. We then move to the other side of Patagonia, from Chile now on to Argent…

1
#90 T&J — “Strength Forgets”, The Process SA, Team Trials Trouble, Binding Your Feet, Moonboard Rant, and Get Injured To Get Better Technique?! 1:40:23

5M ago1:40:23

1:40:23

The topics are in the title! A big focus on what Tim is “re-learning” as he comes back from his serious knee injury. SHOW NOTES: Team Trials Instagram Post by Ryan Paul Robinson on Hueco Rock Rodeo Nathaniel Flashing Scarface Support the Show. Support us on Patreon: HERE Visit our podcast page: HERE Sign-up with one of our coaches: HERE Follow us o…

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Mikael Lindnord (Endurance Athlete, "Arthur The King") On Finding Friendship On The Trail 31:19

5M ago31:19

31:19

Mikael Lindnord was trying to claim the top ranking in adventure racing during the 2014 Adventure Racing World Series in Equador when he discovered an unlucky friendship with a stray dog that became the inspiration for his book, and now the Lionsgate movie "Arthur The King" starring Mark Wahlberg. Look for the nearest showtime for Arthur The King (…

1
#89 Martin Keller — 8C+ at 45+, How To Gain Limit Strength, How To Project, Naysayers, Avoiding Injury, and The Big Difference Between Indoors and Outdoors 2:30:21

4M ago2:30:21

2:30:21

Martin Keller is one of the few people to boulder 8C+ / V16... But what's really incredible is he just did it right before he turned 46 years old! Martin is an incredible climber, coach, and teacher. In this episode he shares: How to gain limit strength, rather than just getting tired. The best way to project climbs (he's famous for his decade plus…

1
Patagonia Part I: Hike the W Trek in Argentina 36:06

4M ago36:06

36:06

Patagonia Part I: Hike the W Trek in Argentina Patagonia ranks in my Top 3 of the ‘Most Beautiful Places’ I’ve seen (and I’ve been to 50 countries and all seven continents). The rugged granite mountains are often snow capped in glaciers lit up by the sun. Those same glaciers have turned its many lakes into stunning milky blue and teal oasis that de…

1
#68 | Surreal Mount Baldy & Eastern Sierra Adventures, The Importance Of Solo Travel, Escaping A Volcanic Storm, and Exploring Iceland & Banff with Tomasa 2:45:38

4M ago2:45:38

2:45:38

On this episode I have SoCal based trekker, peak bagger, outdoor content creator, and solo world traveler, Tomasa aka @iamoneness11, join me on the show. We chat about her first hiking memories, her top mountains in California, top international treks, hiking hacks & solo travel tips, what sparked her passion for solo adventuring, her love for Coto…

1
#88 T&J — Busting Plateau’s, How To Reclaim A Peak, Get Your Own Felipe [Hoo], ROTSW Still V17, and Sending The MoonBoard Proj 1:44:50

4M ago1:44:50

1:44:50

Tim’s back at it and with a big smile. Hear how he’s been returning to his peak strength after injury. Tim also talks about how he coaches clients through plateaus. Big shout outs to the crews that make life special for Tim and Josh and what they did to help them be their best. Bosi repeats ROTSW, and just about every other hard thing in the world.…

1
Jimmy Chin (Filmmaker, Nat Geo photographer) On Climbing The Shark's Fin 37:18

4M ago37:18

37:18

Jimmy Chin (Oscar-Winning Filmmaker, Nat Geo Photographer) on his landmark climb of Meru's Shark Fin route ten years ago with Conrad Anker and Renan Ozturk, the documentary that followed, and how it prepared him for making "Free Solo". Check out "Meru" if you haven't yet, and be sure to see Jimmy's latest documentary "The Rescue" on Disney Plus. Pl…

1
#87 Matty Hong — Big Falls & Big Fish [9a 50m DWS], Photography 101, What Makes Sharma Special and Lessons From Biographie [World’s First 9a+] 1:52:31

5M ago1:52:31

1:52:31

Matty Hong takes us to Mallorca where he snagged the second ascent of Big Fish. A 9a deep water solo that culminates in a dyno at ~20m / 60ft! Matty was out there filming for the latest Reel Rock climbing with the legend Chris Sharma. Since he is often the guy behind the camera we asked him to share some tips for any aspiring climbing film makers a…

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#86 T&J — PED’s, Breaking Down A Crux, Climbing Like A 6 Year-Old Girl, Injury Prevention, and BTS On A Moonboard Session 1:46:25

5M ago1:46:25

1:46:25

Drugs, cruxes, moonboarding, injuries, making climbs your b*tch... This one's got it all! Tune in for tons of pro-tips that will help you climb better today, and set yourself up for the long term success that we all are striving for. SHOW NOTES: 2017 V8 / 7B+ on Moonboard 2016 Set Podcast #33 with Andy Tollefson Support the Show. Support us on Patr…

1
Chris Cassidy (Navy SEAL, NASA Astronaut) On Life On The International Space Station 30:05

6M ago30:05

30:05

Chris Cassidy (Navy SEAL, NASA astronaut) what it was like to travel to space and live on the International Space Station. His last mission, Expedition 63, is the subject of National Geographic's "Among The Stars" on Disney+. Please support more conversations like this by hitting the subscribe button, checking out our sponsors, and leaving a quick …

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Galapagos Adventures: Go Independent or on a Group Tour? Part II 29:12

6M ago29:12

29:12

Hike and Snorkel Adventures in the Galapagos Islands: Part II Learn all about visiting the Galapagos Islands and where to hike and snorkel. We discuss what you can see and do, and in particular, we also talk about whether you should visit independently or go with an adventure tour company? We discuss the pros and cons of both options in this two pa…

1
#85 Keenan Takahashi — Higher Harder Better, ANTIGRAV, The Best Lines In The World, Mentorship, Manifesting More, and The Mustache Turns 10 2:13:57

5M ago2:13:57

2:13:57

The man, the myth, the Mustache — Keenan Takahashi! Keenan shares his unique approach to climbing. He seeks out the best lines in the world and then uses that as fuel to transform his body and mind so that he is able to climb them. Keenan also has created one of the coolest new brands in climbing, ANTIGRAV, that embodies his psyche and ethos for cl…

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#84 T&J — Hard Hard, New New, Sessioning With The BEST, USAC Controversy, and Switching To Moonboard 2024 2:02:44

5M ago2:02:44

2:02:44

2024 is off the a bang with incredibly hard bouldering FA’s happening non-stop. Is this because USAC caused one of the strongest crews in the world to stop training for the Olympics and start crushing rock again? Hear more from Tim about what a session is like when multiple V16 climbers get together to try the hardest boulders in the world. Support…

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Rick Stanton MBE (Cave Diver) On The Historic 'Thai Cave Rescue' 29:32

5M ago29:32

29:32

Rick Stanton MBE (cave diver) on his part in the historic "Thai Cave Rescue" where he helped rescue a young soccer team from the Tham Luang Nang Non cave in Chiang Rai Province in northern Thailand. His book "Aquanaut" is now available. The documentary "The Rescue' is now streaming. Please support more conversations like this by hitting the subscri…

1
Rafting the Grand Canyon Revisited 41:06

5M ago41:06

41:06

The Grand Canyon is the United States' 15th national park and is a UNESCO World Heritage Site. It is also considered one of the Great Wonders of the World. Ontario-based climber Mike Grainger talks about his experience whitewater rafting on the Colorado River. He also gets to hike on the trip, and shares how a hybrid trip allows for couples and fam…

1
Hike and Snorkel Adventures in the Galapagos Islands: Part I 47:01

5M ago47:01

47:01

Hike and Snorkel Adventures in the Galapagos Islands: Part I Learn all about visiting the Galapagos Islands. We discuss what you can see and do. We also talk about whether you should visit independently or go with an adventure tour company? We discuss the pros and cons of both options in this two part series. Kit visits San Cristobal, Isabella and …

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#67 | Exploring A Once In A Lifetime Ancient Desert Lake, Intense Death Valley Storms, Unforgettable Eastern Sierra Trip, And Utilizing The Great Outdoors As A Restaurant Entrepreneur w/ Jenny Valles 2:30:42

6M ago2:30:42

2:30:42

On this episode I have SoCal based trekker, peak bagger, outdoor adventurer, dancer, marketer, entrepreneur, restaurant owner of Sampa, and member of the Just Trek Crew, Jenny Valles, join me on the show. We chat about her first hiking memories, her top SoCal mountains, hiking hacks & tips, intense Death Valley storms, exploring an ancient lake, un…

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