Following on from Part 1, we continue our recount of a recent Sunday service at Great Big AOG. We dive into the sermon and challenge the f*ck out of his claims and assertions and ask just how reliable are the supposed miracle stories that the pastor told. Judging by the amount of laughter, this two-parter is easily up there with our most fun episod…

It's been nearly 30 years since our last visit to Great Big AOG, and in this episode, we go back for a Sunday service. Join us as we recount the weird and bizarre antics and carry-on of these modern Pentecostals. We also introduce you to Brian's significant other, Michelle, as she joined us on our expedition back into the world of church. You'll la…

In this episode, we are joined by Tracey and Sharon from the podcast, Feet of Clay—Confessions of the Cult Sisters. We talk about the black and white thinking of fundamentalism and how to leave it behind and embrace 'the grays' and nuances that pervade most of what life throws our way. Links: Feet of Clay—Confessions of the Cult Sisters Tracey & Sh…

When you leave church and/or the faith, what do you do about those who choose to stay? How do you navigate, maintain or even grieve those you leave behind? Troy and Brian share their own stories and give some advice on this very tricky part of deconstructing. Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here. Join the conversation and connec…

Troy chronicles the events immediately leading up to and after he lost his faith in Jesus. He describes the factors that influenced his decision and how it felt to be finally free of the mental gymnastics he needed to apply to remain a Christian. Links: So long, and thanks for all the guilt! (Troy's deconversion blog) Internet Infidels » a drop of …

Brian McLaren's new book defines 'doom' as, "The psychological sense that we know our problems are bigger than our solutions." In this episode, he and Bart talk about their fears for the future, a potential collapse in our way of life, how they think about 'hope', and what kinds of things are likely to help people in the worst-case scenarios. As Br…

We talk with Zenith Virago, a highly respected celebrant, educator, public speaker and author and self-proclaimed Deathwalker. She is the founder of the Natural Death Care Centre and was named Byron Bay's Citizen of the Year in 2021 in recognition of her important work. Links: Zenith Virago, Deathwalker Training Natural Death Care Centre Zenith on …

"Bart, in your episode with Devin Moss you mentioned envying his role as a humanist chaplain for someone on death row, because he could throw himself into totally being there for that man, knowing it was only for a limited amount of time. That sounded easier to you than committing to love a needy person with lots of life ahead of them. That one str…

We talk with the hosts and producers of the Humanize Me podcast, Bart Campolo and John Wright, about leaving fundamentalist communities behind and whether it is possible to find new communities afterwards. Bart Campolo is an American humanist speaker, writer, former pastor, and son of Tony Campolo, the well-known Christian pastor and speaker. John …

Those whose answer to their religion is 'Nothing in particular' make up an increasing number of the population of the United States. They're part of a larger group of 'nones' who differ in many ways, even among each other. In this episode, Bart dives into the most recent data with Alan Cooperman from the Pew Research Center, who talks about religio…

Rob Haskell was born to missionary parents, spending his childhood in Argentina. He later attended Bible College and seminary before reevaluating his beliefs and embracing critical thinking over religious orthodoxy in 2015. We speak with Rob about his new book, God of the Mind: an eXvangelical Journey, a personal exploration of the intellectual inc…

Here it is! The 100th episode! Brian and Troy continue with their own deconstruction stories and share what life was like after having left church...and Jesus. Did they completely fall apart? Did they return to their sin like a dog to its vomit? Tune in and find out. Links: So long, and thanks for all the guilt! (Troy's deconversion blog) Internet …

Devin Moss is a media producer who became a humanist chaplain during the pandemic and surprisingly quickly found himself ministering to a death row inmate called Phillip Hancock. He was there in Hancock's final moments, a story he tells in this New York Times Magazine article, plunging him into the question of what it really means to face death wit…

If there's one religious sounding label that Troy is willing to wear, it's 'Buddhist'. In this episode we speak with Ted Meissner, the Executive Director of the Secular Buddhist Association, and the host of The Secular Buddhist Podcast. Ted explains Secular Buddhism and how it contrasts with the more traditional forms of Buddhism. Ted's links: Secu…

In this episode, we explore Progressive/Reformed Judaism with Michel Laloum, Cantor at Temple Beth Israel Synagogue in Melbourne, Australia. He was ordained as a Cantor at the Progressive Hebrew Union College – Jewish Institute of Religion and completed Rabbinic studies at the Academy for Jewish Religion, Jewish Theological Seminary and New York Un…

Brian Swimme is an evolutionary cosmologist whose latest book, Cosmogenesis, is autobiographical, but is also an attempt to tell the story of the universe as science knows it, placing human beings inside the story. Brian believes that, properly told, the story is awe-inspiring, beautiful and unifying, and potentially a foundation for a better world…

Tim Costello is an Australian social justice advocate, community leader, and a prominent figure in the Christian faith, albeit a progressive form. He is known in Australia for his public commentary on political and ethical matters, often offering a perspective informed by his Christian faith and commitment to social justice. In this episode we talk…

In the last of three episodes on 'high disclosure relationships', Bart gets to know someone in depth from scratch - a Humanize Me listener called Patti, who turns out to be as wonderful as we could have hoped - and in the process, provides an example of such conversations to inspire you to do the same.…

In this episode, we talk with Dr Eben Alexander, an American neurosurgeon and author. In 2008, he suffered a coma caused by a rare and mysterious bacterial meningo-encephalitis of unknown causes. We talk with him about his own near-death experience and his book, Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. Dr Alexander's links: Ebe…

We recently stumbled upon a podcast we thought you'd love. Sexvangelicals is a sexual health podcast and education platform with the mission to support relationships in reclaiming sexuality following adverse religious experiences. This is one of their episodes, The Sex Ed We Wish We Had: Consent, Part 1 of 2. We hope you enjoy it. If you want to co…

We talk with Ani Zonneveld about Progressive Islam and the life she lives as a Progressive Muslim. Ani is a writer, singer/songwriter, and founder & President of Muslims for Progressive Values, an international human rights organization that advocates for social justice and equality for all, a strong supporter of freedom of expression and of consci…

Bart shares a tool he's used often to connect with people in the manner discussed in episode 901 with Rich Slatcher.

In this episode, we talk with writer Bernard Warnick about humanity's obsession with certainty and ask, is certainty attainable? Bernard spent nineteen years as a judge of the trial division and later the Appeal Division of the Family Court of Australia before retiring from the bench in 2010. He developed a deep interest in the reasoning process an…

We're back for Season 5! In this episode we review the highlights of Season 4, let you know about the changes we've made and where the podcast is heading in 2024. Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here. Join the conversation and connect with other listeners here. All our links are here. Transcript of this episode is here. Doubting…

Brian and Troy used to be loyal Christian megachurch leaders. They’re not anymore. Thispodcast explores life after Fundamentalism. Shortlisted for the 2022 Australian Podcast Awards. Find out more at iwasateenagefundamentalist.com/ and https://linktr.ee/iwatf Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here. Join the conversation and connec…

Rich Slatcher is a psychologist who is the current Gail M. Williamson Distinguished Professor in the Behavior and Brain Sciences area of the Department of Psychology at the University of Georgia. In this conversation with Bart Campolo, he talks about the power of self-disclosure in relationships, and the other factors which draw people closer to ea…

Emily John Garcés is an artist, poet, ex-missionary with YWAM, all-round creative enthusiast, and author of the memoir, Hitchhiking with Drunken Nuns. In this final episode of Season 4, we speak with Emily about her life as a YWAM missionary in Argentina and the Netherlands, and her unique perspective on the world we share. Despite her fundamentali…

Maggie Rowe is an author, writer, director, & producer. Her memoir, Sin Bravely: A Memoir of Spiritual Disobedience, was named to NPR's Best Books of 2017. In this episode, we speak to Maggie about her childhood where she describes being tormented by the fear of Hell and not being truly saved. At 19 years old she admitted herself to an 'evangelical…

Van Badham is an Australian playwright, novelist, journalist and activist who writes regularly for the Guardian. In this episode we speak with Van about her 2021 book QAnon and On: A Short and Shocking History of Internet Conspiracy Cults in which she investigates who is behind the internet cult and how it often intertwines with the world of Evange…

There’s doom and gloom in the ether, and many people aren't feeling too great about the world. What to do? Bart thinks the best move is to swing to the stoics, with a sense of separating what we can control versus what we can’t. Simply 'doing the next right thing'. Some things we can control: our next moves, our vote, our transactions, the ways we …

Thanksgiving is here in the United States, set aside for the emotion of gratitude. We wonder what other emotions would be worth setting aside some time to express? Mentioned in the episode: this video and this 'emotion wheel.'

A 'Q&R' episode where a listener question about truth leads to morality via Dan Dennett.

We talk with Janice Selbie, a former fundamentalist Evangelical Christian of over 40 years and now a counsellor and specialist in the area of religious trauma. Janice shares her own story and the work she does with others in helping heal the pain caused by religious trauma. This is the first of a two-part episode we did with Janice. You can find pa…

Kate Cohen is a contributing columnist at The Washington Post whose new book, We of Little Faith: Why I Stopped Pretending to Believe (And Maybe You Should Too), is of obvious interest to us at Humanize Me. Kate's book can be found on Amazon and wherever else books are sold.

We talk with April Ajoy, a well-known viral TikToker, YouTuber and podcaster. She describes herself as a “recovering conservative, humorously detoxing religion.” Raised as a pastor's kid, April was deep in Evangelicalism to the point of working for The 700 Club and singing her original song, America Say Jesus on The Jim Bakker Show. While deconstru…

Brian & Troy take a look at how divorce is presented in the New Testament and how the Church has handled it over the last 2000 years. Our hosts also reflect on their own experience and ask, do Jesus and the Bible really offer adequate guidance for the 21st century. Spoiler alert, no. The resources suggested in this episode are: Christian views on d…

Bart talks with prominent evangelical Christian author Philip Yancey, whose books have been instrumental in supporting the faith of many Christians and whose recent memoir, Where the Light Fell, led to this conversation. In it, the two talk about their upbringings, their faith journey and Bart's deconstruction of faith, their values and more.…

Dan Barker served as an evangelical Christian preacher and composer for 19 years before leaving Christianity in 1984. He and his wife Annie Laurie Gaylor are the current co-presidents of the Freedom from Religion Foundation, and he is co-founder of The Clergy Project. In this fascinating chat, he shares his journey out of faith and why he identifie…

Is it right, or not, to have biological children? The last time Bart addressed this issue in the podcast (Episode 514), it generated lots of passionate replies, including one listener in particular whose angry email we read aloud in this episode. Since we didn't feel we did the subject justice last time, or the people for whom it's an important que…

Catherine Quiring describes herself as a reformed people-pleaser, Exvangelical and an aspiring advocate for anti-oppressive spirituality. She is a licensed Mental Health Counsellor, and Self-Trust Coach. Catherine tells Brian and Troy why she believes the Evangelical god is a narcissist and that the symptoms experienced by those who have experience…

Back from a summer vacation and into a wide-ranging conversation with Lisa Kentgen, a psychologist who's written a book called The Practice of Belonging: Six Lessons from Vibrant Communities to Combat Loneliness, Foster Diversity, and Cultivate Caring Relationships.

Picking up where he left off in Episode 79 - Troy Deals With His Religious Trauma in Korea, Troy journeys to Singapore in search of his next adventure. In this episode, he continues to unsuccessfully park his religious trauma and finds himself in a very glamourous scene in Singapore. He falls hard for a Chinese woman and they return to Australia to…

After Troy and Brian appeared on Stephen's podcast, Cult Hackers back in 2021, Stephen now brings his expertise to talk about cults from an organisational psychology perspective. He shares how organisational models help us understand cult leadership, coercive control dynamics and why people join and stay. You can find Stephen's podcast here: Cult H…

Krispin and D.L. Mayfield are a husband-and-wife team and hosts of the Prophetic Imagination Station. Both were missionaries and published Christian writers who have recently been very public about their deconversion from Christianity. Brian and Troy talk with them about their deconversion journey and its impact on their careers and marriage. --- T…

Robert Rooks is the CEO of REFORM Alliance, a criminal justice organization focused on transforming probation and parole systems. In this conversation with Bart Campolo, he talks about seeing the hardships in his community growing up, and how he became inspired to start to work on systemic change. In the process, Robert lays out some solid, practic…

Marc Fennell is an award-winning Australian journalist and documentary maker who was once a teenage fundamentalist...but he claims he was not a very good one. He has just released a documentary about Australian Pentecostalism called The Kingdom where he confronts his own past spent in church. Brian & Troy talk with Marc about why he left and why he…

A listener asks: "Hi Bart, I just want to encourage you by communicating how much your podcast has helped me and is sustaining me in my deconversion journey. In your conversation earlier this month with Ursula Goodenough, you talked about a reverence and awe for the natural world, and I couldn’t help but think of a bible verse admonishing Christian…

Picking up where he left off in Episode 64 - Troy Story II, Troy left the Church & his Christian marriage and headed off to live & work in South Korea. In this episode, he recounts his largely unsuccessful attempts to deal with his religious trauma by parking his religious issues and indulging in the maladaptive coping strategies of casual sex and …

They say you should never meet your heroes, but this conversation with Ursula Goodenough proves definitively that it isn't always true! Bart first read Ursula's book, The Sacred Depths of Nature, almost immediately after deconverting from Christianity many years ago. It was a massive influence on his thinking, providing a scientific basis for a rat…

Ross Blocher and Carrie Poppy have a hugely popular podcast where they join religions, undergo alternative medical treatments, and hunt for ghost, goblins, demons, and deities...so you don't have to! If it has an extraordinary claim attached to it, they'll check it out and report on it. In this episode, Brian and Troy talk with them about their tee…